[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi  
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  closed
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0   
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  fixed 
 Keywords: |  
---+
Changes (by esteele):

  * status:  assigned => closed
  * resolution:  => fixed


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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 Please assist the doc team in creating/updating documentation relating to
 this PLIP. See #9622.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 (In [30328]) Default to plonetheme.sunburst. Refs #9315

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 (In [30316]) Removing dev branches. Consider #9315 merged. Refs #9315.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 (In [30313]) Merge in PLIP #9315. Refs #9315.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 This PLIP has been accepted for merging into Plone 4.0

 The final vote was:
 Alec Mitchell   +1
 David Glick +1
 Erik Rose   +1
 Laurence Rowe   +1
 Matthew Wilkes  -1
 Ross Patterson  +1

 Please merge your branches into the Plone 4.0 head by end-of-day Friday
 Oct 16. If you need assistance with merging, please contact me.

 We'll be assigning a documentation ticket to this PLIP shortly. Please
 assist the docs team in documenting the changes and new features that this
 PLIP introduces.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by emanlove):

 I've taken an initial look at RTL and submitted a few fixes. Here is a
 summary fixes so far and some RTL issues still to be resolved.

  * [30271] Adds some logic to reposition columns under RTL
  * [30272] Reposition the searchbox to the left under RTL
  * [30273] Reposition the personal tools tab to the left under RTL
  * [30274] Moved the vertical separators on the global navigation bar to
 the left under RTL
  * [30275] Repositions the status messages to the right under RTL
  * [30276], [30277] Swapped the content action menus and the view tabs
 respectively under RTL

 Issues still to be resolved

  * The far left hand drop-down action submenu appears of the left hand
 side of the screen.
  * When there is no left-hand (on the right side for RTL) portlet the
 bullet/numbers lists appear of screen to the right.
  * Content history box has some RTL issues.
  * other ???

 If anyone else sees any RTL issues under the new theme feel free to
 contact me.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+
Changes (by emanlove):

 * cc: emanlove (added)


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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 Oh, and people have started working on the RTL bits now, which makes me
 happy. :)

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 Replying to [comment:41 esteele]:
 > One bug I've found: the dashboard link no longer works, since that
 anchor now opens a menu instead.

 Yeah, it's one of the things I need some assistance with. There are a
 couple of items that should be in that menu that aren't currently. Thought
 it would be more appropriate to add those after a merge, though.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 Replying to [comment:40 MatthewWilkes]:
 > This is missing the DTML variable support that I wanted.

 To collect the feedback from FWT channel:

  * base_properties for three color values really doesn't make any sense
  * We want to avoid using variables in CSS, especially using DTML
  * We'll still ship with a deprecated base_properties to ensure products
 don't break, but it will be marked as non-functional as far as the theme
 goes
  * The plan is to work with Rob (of CSSManager) to add logo customization
 + header HTML + ploneCustom.css support in 4.1
  * base_properties has been marked as deprecated since 2.5 (AFAIK)

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by rossp):

 FWT vote: +1 for merging

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 One bug I've found: the dashboard link no longer works, since that anchor
 now opens a menu instead.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by MatthewWilkes):

 This is missing the DTML variable support that I wanted.  I know Alex has
 claimed that it's not useful, but it is best practice and it does break
 products like CSSManager.  FWT vote: -1

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 (In [29871]) Branching for Plone 4 theme changes. This refs #9315.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 Your PLIP has been reviewed by the Framework team. Feel free to discuss
 any suggested changes either here in the PLIP ticket or on the mailing
 lists. Final deadline for this PLIP is set for September 23.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+
Changes (by spliter):

 * cc: denys.mishu...@gmail.com (added)


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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by spliter):

 I am concerned about HTML5 in Plone's default theme. HTML5 even though it
 accepts almost everything we had in XHTML1 is not a simple change of
 doctype. HTML5 is about changing markup to make it readable and have much
 more sense. HTML5 itself is just a wonderful markup language. But when it
 comes to Plone I am not sure this is a good idea to make it default for
 such a generic product at the moment.

 1. HTML5 needs markup changes. Otherwise what's the point of using it? If
 Plone will be the same XHTML1 markup with just changed doctype it doesn't
 make sense to me. We should either do it proper HTML5 or leave it as XHTML
 (maybe make it Strict instead of Transitional though)

 2. As far as I can see there are some markup changes towards HTML5 in the
 current theme's implementation already. Those changes make all themes done
 for previous Plone versions broken even though still 10 minutes away from
 being fixed (but companies will need people who understand what to fix).
 Some changes:
  becomes 
  becomes 
  becomes 
 Technically what we do is break compatibility with existing themes that
 might rely on mentioned IDs without actually gaining anything since we
 don't do full transition to HTML5. We can add those IDs and classes to new
 elements of course, but then we have no point of moving to HTML5 at all.
 And in addition these changes conflict with "No substantial markup changes
 are expected outside of the table removal, class and ID names will be
 kept." bullet point of the PLIP.

 3. HTML5 in current implementation doesn't give any benefits except
 declaring we are HTML5. It's a very-very basic transition from XHTML1
 towards HTMl5 at the moment.

 4. Making proper HTML 5 theme is way more than just changing
 main_template.pt - we have portlets, viewlets, we have control panels we
 have a lot of different views that need to be transformed to be proper
 HTML5.

 Instead of making the new Plone 4 theme with HTML5 I would propose to make
 a group of people who would start working on transforming all templates of
 Plone into HTML5 for Plone 5. And this should be done already now.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 Link to review:
 https://dev.plone.org/plone/browser/buildouts/plone-
 coredev/branches/4.0/plips/plip9315-review-robgietema.txt

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 Replying to [comment:27 limi]:
 > Replying to [comment:26 robgietema]:
 > > Added review in [https://dev.plone.org/plone/browser/buildouts/plone-
 coredev/branches/4.0/plips/plip9311-review-robgietema.txt?rev=29333
 [29333]].
 >
 > Cool, thanks!
 >
 > Most of the issues noted (apart from some of the failing tests?) seem to
 be unrelated to the theme as far as I can see.

 …and are also for PLIP 9311, not this one. So that would explain it. :D

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 Replying to [comment:26 robgietema]:
 > Added review in [https://dev.plone.org/plone/browser/buildouts/plone-
 coredev/branches/4.0/plips/plip9311-review-robgietema.txt?rev=29333
 [29333]].

 Cool, thanks!

 Most of the issues noted (apart from some of the failing tests?) seem to
 be unrelated to the theme as far as I can see.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by robgietema):

 Added review in [https://dev.plone.org/plone/browser/buildouts/plone-
 coredev/branches/4.0/plips/plip9311-review-robgietema.txt?rev=29333
 [29333]].

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by limi):

 First cut of the theme is checked in (a bit late because of the Snow
 Leopard build issues).

  * Buildout config file: http://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/buildouts/plone-
 coredev/branches/4.0/plips/plip9315-new-theme.cfg
  * Review notes at: http://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/buildouts/plone-
 coredev/branches/4.0/plips/plip9315-new-theme.txt

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+
Changes (by grahamperrin):

 * cc: grahamper...@gmail.com (added)


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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by jensens):

 Replying to [comment:22 MatthewWilkes]:
 > Eric: There are at least 3 FWT members who voted yes with the proviso
 that base_properties would still work.  I will be -1 on any implementation
 that breaks this.

 ad base_properties: I wrote cornerstone.cssvar which provides browser-
 resources with variables in css. And using an new (to be done) utility
 providing the base_properties as variables for the css would solve a
 problem here. But cornerstone.cssvar is in an early state and needs more
 testing. It works in a pure Zope Toolkit application very fine, but Five
 makes live difficult.

 reference: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/cornerstone.cssvar/1.0

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by MatthewWilkes):

 Eric: There are at least 3 FWT members who voted yes with the proviso that
 base_properties would still work.  I will be -1 on any implementation that
 breaks this.

 A change logo and add CSS form would need their own PLIP, imho, so would
 be -1 on inclusion.  This isn't intended to start a debate, Alex should
 implement what he's suggested and we've said we want, not something else.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+
Changes (by esteele):

 * cc: robzonenet (added)


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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 So I'm going to risk Limi never telling me his plans again and bring up
 some points he made during a recent chat...

 Basically there were several bits of his plans for the Plone-retheme that
 aren't included in the original proposal that, the more I consider them, I
 feel need to be further discussed with the wider group.

 1. Writing the new theme in HTML 5.
 2. Pull existing theme into a new package.
 3. Removal of base_properties.
 4. Inclusion of a "change logo" and "insert CSS" form.

 I'm +.5 on the first two, mainly because I would like some discussion of
 what, if any, theme migration challenges might be introduced.

 As far as 3 and 4... As much as I hate dtml-vars, I really like having the
 ability to make quick changes to site colors, font-sizes etc. I'm very
 much in favor of providing a simple theming story of some sort, but I want
 to make sure we do it correctly. While these two fields would cover some
 of the most common use cases, do they cover enough to warrant inclusion
 instead of just being a bit of duct tape? Can we update this to use a more
 modern approach, ie a utility/view that these stylesheets can pull
 variables out of or are we rejecting the use of variables in our CSS
 altogether?

 In the interest of full disclosure, we've put some time here at WebLion
 into building up CSSManager to do that sort of simple theming thing, so I
 may have a bias. I'd be remiss in my duties as release manager though if I
 let this slide by without us getting it right.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  assigned
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+
Changes (by limi):

  * status:  new => assigned


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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  new 
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by esteele):

 Approved by FWT vote.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  new 
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by wichert):

 Can't we let this mature outside of core first, and then include it when
 it is?

 We already did this wrong with !NuPlone, and I would rather not that we
 repeat that mistake.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  new 
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by calvinhp):

 FWT Vote: +1 as long as we keep the current theme as an alternate that is
 bundled with the release.

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[PLIP-Advisories] Re: [Plone] #9315: New theme for Plone 4

[plip-advisories]

#9315: New theme for Plone 4
---+
 Reporter:  limi   |Owner:  limi
 Type:  PLIP   |   Status:  new 
 Priority:  n/a|Milestone:  4.0 
Component:  Templates/CSS  |   Resolution:  
 Keywords: |  
---+

Comment(by raphael):

 FWT vote: +1 provided the current skin/theme stays available and existing
 sites won't break. We have a framework that supports multiple skin
 selections for a reason ;-)

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