Re: [Frameworks] Peertube for experimental filmmaking?

[Florian Cramer]

Hello Pip, Quentin,

Criticalcommons seems to be a scholarly site for film analysis that
provides commented (commercial) film snippets based on fair use
regulations. Odyssee.com seems to be a somewhat questionable startup that
sells its video hosting service as being blockchain-based although the
actually streaming is done through Bittorrent.

Regarding the use of copyrighted films on Peertube, since it's a decentral
network, moderation policies are up to the individual server/instance. It
is entirely possible to run a Peertube instance that (a) honors copyright
and (b) is focused on experimental film and video work.

Maybe the third option would be to upload videos on archive.org . It has a
working video hosting infrastructure, is a non-profit and involves people
like Rick Prelinger. However, as a single organization and single provider,
it's potentially also a single point of failure.

-F



-- 
blog: *https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561
*
bio:  http://floriancramer.nl


On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 4:44 PM Quentin Darcq 
wrote:

> Hello Florian, Pip and everyone
>
> Do you think Criticalcommons.org or https://odysee.com/ might be good
> alternative ? Maybe the first one, Criticalcommons ?
>
> Quentin
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 3:59 PM Pip Chodorov  wrote:
>
>> Hi Florian,
>>
>> I do not have any experience with Peertube except that it is where I
>> found hosted a wealth of pirated content by experimental filmmakers whom I
>> distribute, culled from our DVD editions and others. It was quite difficult
>> to remove (because anyone can post anything there). At least when we find
>> pirated content on YouTube, we can flag it and it is removed immediately.
>> It is a sad game of whack-a-mole that has to played regularly in order to
>> protect author’s rights (though I have nothing against those filmmakers who
>> feel flattered to be pirated, it is difficult to sell their DVDs in that
>> case).
>>
>> I am sensitive to your concerns about Vimeo, though practically it is
>> still a good technical solution for hosting videos.
>>
>> The mobile app I developed for Re:Voir last year (“Re:Voir Online”) is a
>> platform for us to allow people to see the films we distribute in the case
>> that they have no DVD player, or live in a place where it is hard to find
>> DVDs, and do not mind watching films on their phone or tablet. It does a
>> service for those viewers as well as for the filmmakers wishing their films
>> to be seen more widely. It is also possible for us to host films that we
>> have not published on DVD, and there are currently quite a few films on the
>> app that are not available on other media. Sometimes we want to distribute
>> films for which a DVD edition would not be justified. Of course this is a
>> proprietary app that requires a distribution agreement with Re:Voir, but
>> for some this could be a useful solution. I imagined opening part of it up
>> to create what could be called an “internet filmmakers’ cooperative” but
>> this will have to wait until there are enough subscribers for the app to be
>> economically self-sufficient. All this to say: you are welcome to submit
>> your films to us for distribution if you want your films online to be
>> monetized.
>>
>> Since I founded FrameWorks, I have been interested in online solutions
>> for filmmakers to connect and share their work, but I do not believe there
>> is an open source initiative for experimental films. It could have been
>> Ubu, except that they were also pirating our content. Let us know if you
>> find anything!
>>
>> Pip Chodorov
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 20, 2022, at 11:27 PM, Florian Cramer 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Do other people here have experiences with Peertube and can recommend
>> friendly servers/'instances'? Or are there even Peertube instances run by
>> people from the Frameworks community?
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Frameworks mailing list
>> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
>> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
-- 
Frameworks mailing list
Frameworks@film-gallery.org
https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

Re: [Frameworks] Timoleon Wilkins Contact

[Evan Greene]

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 20, 2022, at 18:06, Dominic Angerame  
> wrote:
> 
> Just saw Tim in Tucson in September, he is well
> 
> timoleo...@gmail.com
> 
> Dominic
> 
>> On Nov 20, 2022, at 9:01 AM, Evan Greene  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Does anyone have an email address for Timoleon Wilkins?
>> 
>> Please contact me off list. 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Frameworks mailing list
>> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
>> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
> 
> 
> -- 
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

-- 
Frameworks mailing list
Frameworks@film-gallery.org
https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

Re: [Frameworks] Timoleon Wilkins Contact

[Dominic Angerame]

Just saw Tim in Tucson in September, he is well

timoleo...@gmail.com

Dominic

> On Nov 20, 2022, at 9:01 AM, Evan Greene  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have an email address for Timoleon Wilkins?
> 
> Please contact me off list. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org


-- 
Frameworks mailing list
Frameworks@film-gallery.org
https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

[Frameworks] Timoleon Wilkins Contact

[Evan Greene]

Hi,

Does anyone have an email address for Timoleon Wilkins?

Please contact me off list. 

Thanks



-- 
Frameworks mailing list
Frameworks@film-gallery.org
https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

Re: [Frameworks] Peertube for experimental filmmaking?

[Quentin Darcq]

Hello Florian, Pip and everyone

Do you think Criticalcommons.org or https://odysee.com/ might be good
alternative ? Maybe the first one, Criticalcommons ?

Quentin

On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 3:59 PM Pip Chodorov  wrote:

> Hi Florian,
>
> I do not have any experience with Peertube except that it is where I found
> hosted a wealth of pirated content by experimental filmmakers whom I
> distribute, culled from our DVD editions and others. It was quite difficult
> to remove (because anyone can post anything there). At least when we find
> pirated content on YouTube, we can flag it and it is removed immediately.
> It is a sad game of whack-a-mole that has to played regularly in order to
> protect author’s rights (though I have nothing against those filmmakers who
> feel flattered to be pirated, it is difficult to sell their DVDs in that
> case).
>
> I am sensitive to your concerns about Vimeo, though practically it is
> still a good technical solution for hosting videos.
>
> The mobile app I developed for Re:Voir last year (“Re:Voir Online”) is a
> platform for us to allow people to see the films we distribute in the case
> that they have no DVD player, or live in a place where it is hard to find
> DVDs, and do not mind watching films on their phone or tablet. It does a
> service for those viewers as well as for the filmmakers wishing their films
> to be seen more widely. It is also possible for us to host films that we
> have not published on DVD, and there are currently quite a few films on the
> app that are not available on other media. Sometimes we want to distribute
> films for which a DVD edition would not be justified. Of course this is a
> proprietary app that requires a distribution agreement with Re:Voir, but
> for some this could be a useful solution. I imagined opening part of it up
> to create what could be called an “internet filmmakers’ cooperative” but
> this will have to wait until there are enough subscribers for the app to be
> economically self-sufficient. All this to say: you are welcome to submit
> your films to us for distribution if you want your films online to be
> monetized.
>
> Since I founded FrameWorks, I have been interested in online solutions for
> filmmakers to connect and share their work, but I do not believe there is
> an open source initiative for experimental films. It could have been Ubu,
> except that they were also pirating our content. Let us know if you find
> anything!
>
> Pip Chodorov
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 20, 2022, at 11:27 PM, Florian Cramer  wrote:
> >
> > Do other people here have experiences with Peertube and can recommend
> friendly servers/'instances'? Or are there even Peertube instances run by
> people from the Frameworks community?
> >
>
>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
-- 
Frameworks mailing list
Frameworks@film-gallery.org
https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

Re: [Frameworks] Peertube for experimental filmmaking?

[Pip Chodorov]

Hi Florian,

I do not have any experience with Peertube except that it is where I found 
hosted a wealth of pirated content by experimental filmmakers whom I 
distribute, culled from our DVD editions and others. It was quite difficult to 
remove (because anyone can post anything there). At least when we find pirated 
content on YouTube, we can flag it and it is removed immediately. It is a sad 
game of whack-a-mole that has to played regularly in order to protect author’s 
rights (though I have nothing against those filmmakers who feel flattered to be 
pirated, it is difficult to sell their DVDs in that case).

I am sensitive to your concerns about Vimeo, though practically it is still a 
good technical solution for hosting videos.

The mobile app I developed for Re:Voir last year (“Re:Voir Online”) is a 
platform for us to allow people to see the films we distribute in the case that 
they have no DVD player, or live in a place where it is hard to find DVDs, and 
do not mind watching films on their phone or tablet. It does a service for 
those viewers as well as for the filmmakers wishing their films to be seen more 
widely. It is also possible for us to host films that we have not published on 
DVD, and there are currently quite a few films on the app that are not 
available on other media. Sometimes we want to distribute films for which a DVD 
edition would not be justified. Of course this is a proprietary app that 
requires a distribution agreement with Re:Voir, but for some this could be a 
useful solution. I imagined opening part of it up to create what could be 
called an “internet filmmakers’ cooperative” but this will have to wait until 
there are enough subscribers for the app to be economically self-sufficient. 
All this to say: you are welcome to submit your films to us for distribution if 
you want your films online to be monetized.

Since I founded FrameWorks, I have been interested in online solutions for 
filmmakers to connect and share their work, but I do not believe there is an 
open source initiative for experimental films. It could have been Ubu, except 
that they were also pirating our content. Let us know if you find anything!

Pip Chodorov





> On Nov 20, 2022, at 11:27 PM, Florian Cramer  wrote:
> 
> Do other people here have experiences with Peertube and can recommend 
> friendly servers/'instances'? Or are there even Peertube instances run by 
> people from the Frameworks community? 
> 


-- 
Frameworks mailing list
Frameworks@film-gallery.org
https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

[Frameworks] Peertube for experimental filmmaking?

[Florian Cramer]

Hello everyone,

Apologies for being only a very occasional contributor to this list. I may
not be the only person who wonders about a suitable online video
service/streaming platform for my own film and video work. Like many of us,
I currently host it on Vimeo (currently 315 videos...), but would rather
like to leave that company and platform, for several reasons:
- It has become poorly maintained and is no more oriented towards or caring
about film/video makers (which its management explicitly stated in a letter
to shareholders from February 2022: "Today we are a technology platform,
not a viewing destination. We are a B2B solution, not the indie version of
YouTube");
- It is and has always been a for-profit company that runs all its services
on Amazon's AWS cloud servers and (environmentally harmful) data centers,
contributing to Jeff Bezos' fortune.

The alternative cannot be another corporate service or platform (and
clearly not YouTube), but a community-run non-profit service. This does
actually exist in the form of Peertube. It is, like (the Twitter
alternative) Mastodon, part of the "Fediverse" of Open Source,
volunteer-run social media. I first looked into Peertube in 2019 and
uploaded some of my videos on the server ("instance") I had registered
with, but then this server went offline a few months later because its
operator could no longer afford the bandwidth.

Looking back at Peertube in 2022, it seems to have considerably matured and
offer a decent streaming quality. As always with Fediverse services, the
question is which instance/server is most suitable. Using
Peertube's instance search tool (
https://joinpeertube.org/instances#instances-list), I couldn't easily find
one that was oriented towards "our" kind of moving image making.

So my question is: Do other people here have experiences with Peertube and
can recommend friendly servers/'instances'? Or are there even Peertube
instances run by people from the Frameworks community?

Florian


-- 
blog: *https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561
*
bio:  http://floriancramer.nl
-- 
Frameworks mailing list
Frameworks@film-gallery.org
https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org