Re: [Frameworks] 16mm film looper

[Quentin Darcq]

Hello all,

You should try to send an e-mail to the filmlabs.org mailing lists for diy
loopers. Have also a look here:
http://www.filmlabs.org/index.php/technical-tips/

Quentin

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 10:03 PM Thomas Bartels 
wrote:

> About 15-20 years ago a (canadian based?) filmmaker gave a workshop (in
> Worm/Rotterdam?) for building simple and safe diy loopers.
> (sorry for the vague info, can't remember the details any more precisely,
> maybe Karel Doing does?)
>
> I have some of them, they are easy to build and I am very satisfied with
> their performance. They are supposed to run loops up to 10 min.
> I never had more than 8. The films did not get scratched or torn and ran
> for 2 weeks exhibition.
> Unfortunately I can not find the drawings and measurements at the moment
> but if this is an option for you I can copy them from the device.
>
> Best,
> Thomas.
>
> Thomas Bartels
> https://vimeo.com/thomasbartels
>
> Anna Kipervaser  hat am 25.08.2021 17:45
> geschrieben:
>
>
>
> Maybe you bought one and no longer need it, or maybe you or your friend
> make them. I wanna know about it cuz I need to buy one!
>
> I'm shopping for a looper and would like to have variety of options as I
> make a decision.
>
> I'm aware of NCS as an option, and would ideally love to order a
> vertical/non-platter model from Christophe, but there need to be 6 of us!
> And I don't yet know what he charges per looper.
>
> Would love to know current other options and prices, as well as styles.
>
> Always,
>  Anna
>
>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
>
> --
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> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm film looper

[Jean-Pierre Marchant]

Thomas: might you be thinking of Cooper (formerly Roger D Wilson) of
Ottawa?

Here's the site: http://www.thefilmscientist.ca/

Check out the news page - mention of building film loopers.

Sincerely,

JP Marchant
Toronto
(he/him)


On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 4:03 PM Thomas Bartels  wrote:

> About 15-20 years ago a (canadian based?) filmmaker gave a workshop (in
> Worm/Rotterdam?) for building simple and safe diy loopers.
> (sorry for the vague info, can't remember the details any more precisely,
> maybe Karel Doing does?)
>
> I have some of them, they are easy to build and I am very satisfied with
> their performance. They are supposed to run loops up to 10 min.
> I never had more than 8. The films did not get scratched or torn and ran
> for 2 weeks exhibition.
> Unfortunately I can not find the drawings and measurements at the moment
> but if this is an option for you I can copy them from the device.
>
> Best,
> Thomas.
>
> Thomas Bartels
> https://vimeo.com/thomasbartels
>
> Anna Kipervaser  hat am 25.08.2021 17:45
> geschrieben:
>
>
>
> Maybe you bought one and no longer need it, or maybe you or your friend
> make them. I wanna know about it cuz I need to buy one!
>
> I'm shopping for a looper and would like to have variety of options as I
> make a decision.
>
> I'm aware of NCS as an option, and would ideally love to order a
> vertical/non-platter model from Christophe, but there need to be 6 of us!
> And I don't yet know what he charges per looper.
>
> Would love to know current other options and prices, as well as styles.
>
> Always,
>  Anna
>
>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm film looper

[Nicole Baker Peterson]

Thank you! This is excellent.

*MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS CHANGING!*
Please update your contacts to: *nic...@magiklantern.com
*

Nicole Elaine Baker Peterson (she/her/they)
Founder & Head Programmer, Media Monsters
nic...@magiklantern.com
*twitch.tv/media_monsters  |
**magiklantern.com
*



On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 8:56 PM Ugo Bo  wrote:

> Il giorno gio 26 ago 2021 alle ore 10:18 Nicole
>  ha scritto:
> > If you do not mind, I would very much like to see a drawing of the
> method you described!
> > Thank you for sharing.
>
> happy to share, see attached files: instructions and video. The steel
> wire gizmo in front of the projector is just optional, but helps to
> keep film braces not touching.
>
> To avoid scratches a good point is always to lube your film. But about
> what to use to do it opinions are very different!
>
> Il giorno gio 26 ago 2021 alle ore 13:59 Julian Antos
>  ha scritto:
> > YMMV, but a good looper should not scratch film after even several
> hundred runs. Not that it doesn't happen, but they can be made to run very
> gently.
>
> Yes, but the Poor-Man-Looper is free (just the cost of two reels)
>
> But in any looper scratches happen because film is fed and pulled out
> at the same speed, and every loop turns at a slightly different
> rotational speed in respect to the adiacent one. So every loop always
> slides against the others. Closed loop platter systems avoids this by
> shaping the loops in a sort of flower shape - see here:
>
> https://www.maxluxitalia.com/cgi-bin/pdf/schedetecniche/piatto_kinoton_st2000.pdf
> ,
> but not many projectionist loved it!
>
> cheers
> Livio
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm film looper

[lindsay mcintyre]

This guy makes loopers in Vancouver, BC
Sean Arden pardenar...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 7:49 AM Ugo Bo  wrote:

> Il giorno gio 26 ago 2021 alle ore 10:18 Nicole
>  ha scritto:
> > If you do not mind, I would very much like to see a drawing of the
> method you described!
> > Thank you for sharing.
>
> happy to share, see attached files: instructions and video. The steel
> wire gizmo in front of the projector is just optional, but helps to
> keep film braces not touching.
>
> To avoid scratches a good point is always to lube your film. But about
> what to use to do it opinions are very different!
>
> Il giorno gio 26 ago 2021 alle ore 13:59 Julian Antos
>  ha scritto:
> > YMMV, but a good looper should not scratch film after even several
> hundred runs. Not that it doesn't happen, but they can be made to run very
> gently.
>
> Yes, but the Poor-Man-Looper is free (just the cost of two reels)
>
> But in any looper scratches happen because film is fed and pulled out
> at the same speed, and every loop turns at a slightly different
> rotational speed in respect to the adiacent one. So every loop always
> slides against the others. Closed loop platter systems avoids this by
> shaping the loops in a sort of flower shape - see here:
>
> https://www.maxluxitalia.com/cgi-bin/pdf/schedetecniche/piatto_kinoton_st2000.pdf
> ,
> but not many projectionist loved it!
>
> cheers
> Livio
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm film looper

[Julian Antos]

YMMV, but a good looper should not scratch film after even several hundred
runs. Not that it doesn't happen, but they can be made to run very gently.

For under 100' or so you might try constructing an array of rollers or an
enclosed box.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 3:17 AM Nicole  wrote:

> Hi Livio,
>
> If you do not mind, I would very much like to see a drawing of the method
> you described!
> Thank you for sharing.
>
> Nicole Elaine Baker Peterson (she/her/they)
> Founder & Head Programmer, Media Monsters
> nic...@magiklantern.com
> *twitch.tv/media_monsters  | 
> **magiklantern.com
> *
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:06 AM Ugo Bo  wrote:
>
>> You can use the Poor-Man-Looper. My invention, but it works! Here how to
>> do it:
>>
>> THE POOR-MAN-LOOPER
>>
>> You need two reels to make the loop, but a third one is very useful at
>> the end to undo it.
>>
>> 100ft daylight reels for 16mm and normal 50ft reels for 8mm-Super8 work
>> fine.
>>
>> * prepare a normal projection reel (reel A) put it normally on the feed
>> spindle
>> * transfer film to another reel (reel B) on the takeup spindle, so it
>> ends tail out, and leave it on the takeup spindle
>> * take the tail (out) from reel B, pass under and around the now empty
>> feed reel (reel A), and then back to the (now full) takeup reel (reel
>> B)
>> * stick the tail on the film on reel B with a piece of tape
>> * run the projector in reverse
>> * you end up with a loop on the two reels. When the whole film is
>> undone (if you run it a little more than necessary nothing wrong will
>> happen) you end up having the head free inside the loop
>> * leaving the reels on the spindles take the head so it comes out from
>> the center of the takeup reel (reel B: it actually now works as a feed
>> reel from the inside and a takeup reel to the outside - as normal)
>> * thread the head in the projector as normal
>> * unstick the tail
>> * splice the head and the tail together
>> * you are done!
>> * run the projector for a little, it will adjust itself film tension
>>
>> NEVER RUN IN REVERSE!
>>
>> tip: if projector has foldable arms make the loop with the arms not
>> completely extended: it will help to adjust the film tension once the
>> loop is done. NEVER TENSION FILM TOO MUCH!
>>
>> To undo the loop:
>> * run the loop just until the splice comes out from the projector
>> * open the splice
>> * put the tail on another reel (reel C) and hold it with your right
>> hand, leave the head free
>> * with your left hand take down reel A, keeping the film tension
>> * with you right hand put the new reel (reel C) on the feed splindle,
>> take care to correctly pass the film under reel B
>> * run in reverse letting turn the reel A between your fingers, keeping
>> the film tension
>> * you end up with your film on reel C ready for a normal (non loop)
>> projection
>>
>> tip: to adjust the tension run the film forward (C to B) and reverse
>> (B to A) once (so you can put it again on reel A, if you want it).
>>
>> Yes: with time the film will be scratched, but with any looper will.
>> Better use polyester prints.
>> If it is unclear I can send srawings (or pics)
>> best
>> Livio
>>
>> Il giorno mer 25 ago 2021 alle ore 17:46 Anna Kipervaser
>>  ha scritto:
>> >
>> > Maybe you bought one and no longer need it, or maybe you or your friend
>> make them. I wanna know about it cuz I need to buy one!
>> >
>> > I'm shopping for a looper and would like to have variety of options as
>> I make a decision.
>> >
>> > I'm aware of NCS as an option, and would ideally love to order a
>> vertical/non-platter model from Christophe, but there need to be 6 of us!
>> And I don't yet know what he charges per looper.
>> >
>> > Would love to know current other options and prices, as well as styles.
>> >
>> > Always,
>> >  Anna
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Frameworks mailing list
>> > Frameworks@film-gallery.org
>> >
>> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>>
>> --
>> Frameworks mailing list
>> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
>> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>


-- 
Julian Antos
Chicago Film Society
*Now in our tenth year!*
www.chicagofilmsociety.org 
www.patreon.com/cfs
773 827 8991
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm film looper

[Nicole]

Hi Livio,

If you do not mind, I would very much like to see a drawing of the method
you described!
Thank you for sharing.

Nicole Elaine Baker Peterson (she/her/they)
Founder & Head Programmer, Media Monsters
nic...@magiklantern.com
*twitch.tv/media_monsters  |
**magiklantern.com
*


On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:06 AM Ugo Bo  wrote:

> You can use the Poor-Man-Looper. My invention, but it works! Here how to
> do it:
>
> THE POOR-MAN-LOOPER
>
> You need two reels to make the loop, but a third one is very useful at
> the end to undo it.
>
> 100ft daylight reels for 16mm and normal 50ft reels for 8mm-Super8 work
> fine.
>
> * prepare a normal projection reel (reel A) put it normally on the feed
> spindle
> * transfer film to another reel (reel B) on the takeup spindle, so it
> ends tail out, and leave it on the takeup spindle
> * take the tail (out) from reel B, pass under and around the now empty
> feed reel (reel A), and then back to the (now full) takeup reel (reel
> B)
> * stick the tail on the film on reel B with a piece of tape
> * run the projector in reverse
> * you end up with a loop on the two reels. When the whole film is
> undone (if you run it a little more than necessary nothing wrong will
> happen) you end up having the head free inside the loop
> * leaving the reels on the spindles take the head so it comes out from
> the center of the takeup reel (reel B: it actually now works as a feed
> reel from the inside and a takeup reel to the outside - as normal)
> * thread the head in the projector as normal
> * unstick the tail
> * splice the head and the tail together
> * you are done!
> * run the projector for a little, it will adjust itself film tension
>
> NEVER RUN IN REVERSE!
>
> tip: if projector has foldable arms make the loop with the arms not
> completely extended: it will help to adjust the film tension once the
> loop is done. NEVER TENSION FILM TOO MUCH!
>
> To undo the loop:
> * run the loop just until the splice comes out from the projector
> * open the splice
> * put the tail on another reel (reel C) and hold it with your right
> hand, leave the head free
> * with your left hand take down reel A, keeping the film tension
> * with you right hand put the new reel (reel C) on the feed splindle,
> take care to correctly pass the film under reel B
> * run in reverse letting turn the reel A between your fingers, keeping
> the film tension
> * you end up with your film on reel C ready for a normal (non loop)
> projection
>
> tip: to adjust the tension run the film forward (C to B) and reverse
> (B to A) once (so you can put it again on reel A, if you want it).
>
> Yes: with time the film will be scratched, but with any looper will.
> Better use polyester prints.
> If it is unclear I can send srawings (or pics)
> best
> Livio
>
> Il giorno mer 25 ago 2021 alle ore 17:46 Anna Kipervaser
>  ha scritto:
> >
> > Maybe you bought one and no longer need it, or maybe you or your friend
> make them. I wanna know about it cuz I need to buy one!
> >
> > I'm shopping for a looper and would like to have variety of options as I
> make a decision.
> >
> > I'm aware of NCS as an option, and would ideally love to order a
> vertical/non-platter model from Christophe, but there need to be 6 of us!
> And I don't yet know what he charges per looper.
> >
> > Would love to know current other options and prices, as well as styles.
> >
> > Always,
> >  Anna
> >
> >
> > --
> > Frameworks mailing list
> > Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> >
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
>
-- 
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm film looper

[Ugo Bo]

You can use the Poor-Man-Looper. My invention, but it works! Here how to do it:

THE POOR-MAN-LOOPER

You need two reels to make the loop, but a third one is very useful at
the end to undo it.

100ft daylight reels for 16mm and normal 50ft reels for 8mm-Super8 work fine.

* prepare a normal projection reel (reel A) put it normally on the feed spindle
* transfer film to another reel (reel B) on the takeup spindle, so it
ends tail out, and leave it on the takeup spindle
* take the tail (out) from reel B, pass under and around the now empty
feed reel (reel A), and then back to the (now full) takeup reel (reel
B)
* stick the tail on the film on reel B with a piece of tape
* run the projector in reverse
* you end up with a loop on the two reels. When the whole film is
undone (if you run it a little more than necessary nothing wrong will
happen) you end up having the head free inside the loop
* leaving the reels on the spindles take the head so it comes out from
the center of the takeup reel (reel B: it actually now works as a feed
reel from the inside and a takeup reel to the outside - as normal)
* thread the head in the projector as normal
* unstick the tail
* splice the head and the tail together
* you are done!
* run the projector for a little, it will adjust itself film tension

NEVER RUN IN REVERSE!

tip: if projector has foldable arms make the loop with the arms not
completely extended: it will help to adjust the film tension once the
loop is done. NEVER TENSION FILM TOO MUCH!

To undo the loop:
* run the loop just until the splice comes out from the projector
* open the splice
* put the tail on another reel (reel C) and hold it with your right
hand, leave the head free
* with your left hand take down reel A, keeping the film tension
* with you right hand put the new reel (reel C) on the feed splindle,
take care to correctly pass the film under reel B
* run in reverse letting turn the reel A between your fingers, keeping
the film tension
* you end up with your film on reel C ready for a normal (non loop) projection

tip: to adjust the tension run the film forward (C to B) and reverse
(B to A) once (so you can put it again on reel A, if you want it).

Yes: with time the film will be scratched, but with any looper will.
Better use polyester prints.
If it is unclear I can send srawings (or pics)
best
Livio

Il giorno mer 25 ago 2021 alle ore 17:46 Anna Kipervaser
 ha scritto:
>
> Maybe you bought one and no longer need it, or maybe you or your friend make 
> them. I wanna know about it cuz I need to buy one!
>
> I'm shopping for a looper and would like to have variety of options as I make 
> a decision.
>
> I'm aware of NCS as an option, and would ideally love to order a 
> vertical/non-platter model from Christophe, but there need to be 6 of us! And 
> I don't yet know what he charges per looper.
>
> Would love to know current other options and prices, as well as styles.
>
> Always,
>  Anna
>
>
> --
> Frameworks mailing list
> Frameworks@film-gallery.org
> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org

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