Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Gina Marchetti
I highly recommend a Hong Kong experimental feature, HO YUK:  LET'S LOVE HONG 
KONG, by Yau Ching.  I've written an essay that discusses the film in detail.

“Handover Bodies in a Feminist Frame: Two Hong Kong Women Filmmakers' 
Perspectives on Sex after 1997,” Screen Bodies:  An Interdisciplinary Journal 
of Experience,Perception, and Display 2:2 (December 2017), 1-24.  

DOI: https://doi.org/10.3167/screen.2017.020202

https://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/screen-bodies/2/2/screen020202.xml


Gina Marchetti, Ph.D. Comparative Literature School of Humanities University of 
Hong Kong Pokfulam Road HONG KONG 3917-8900 

On Thursday, January 10, 2019, 5:47:46 PM GMT+8, Dorottya Szalay 
 wrote:  
 
 Dear Frameworkers, 
I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of 
prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on pornography. 
Any suggestions? 
Thank you!Best,Dorottya___
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Re: [Frameworks] Inks and paints for clear leaders

2019-01-10 Thread Ugo Bo
I use Talens Ecoline, about 5 euros per bottle, on the gelatine side.
They work really well for me.
best
Livio

Il giorno gio 10 gen 2019 alle ore 02:40 Francisco Torres
 ha scritto:
>
> back in the 80s i used sharpies, but i never printed the film i marked
> so i dont know if it would had worked beyond the clear leader i worked
> on. sharpies have dropped in price and are now made in many different
> colors, back then there were only black, red, green and blue.
>
> 2019-01-09 19:42 GMT-05:00, lindsay mcintyre :
> > You need alcohol-based transparent inks.  Dr. Martin's has good ones and
> > there are some other good brands that are easier to find in craft stores,
> > including Pinata Color Susan Pickering Rothanol signature line (made by
> > Jacquard), Inkredible ink by jane davenport, and alcohol ink by Ranger.
> > They are sometimes overpriced but make beautiful vibrant colours that can
> > also be mixed together, used on both sides of the film, and (rarely)
> > layered.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Lindsay McIntyre
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 5:34 PM Morgan Hoyle-Combs 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Anyone who works in hand painted film must have an idea of inks and
> >> paints
> >> that are good for using on clear acetate or polyester leader. I'm looking
> >> for the kind that can won't easily wash or flake off when dry. And for
> >> the
> >> moment, I'd like to stay away from markers and pens. I'm going to stick
> >> with brushes.
> >>
> >> Any help would be appreciated!
> >>
> >> Thank you
> >>
> >> M
> >> ___
> >> FrameWorks mailing list
> >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >>
> >
> ___
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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread John Matturri
Vivienne Dick's,Liberty's Booty.

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 13:37 Cat Tassini  wrote:

> Hi Dorottya
>
> My mind immediately went to Mary Ellen Mark’s “Streetwise.” Her main
> subject, Tiny, is a prostitute, and some of the other people in the film
> are too. Hope this helps!
>
> Warmly,
> Cat
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 10, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Seth Pimlott 
> wrote:
>
> Maybe worth looking at ‘Working Girls’ by  Lizzie Borden who made ‘Born in
> Flames’. I’ve not seen it myself but have always wanted to track it down.
> Best,
>
> Seth
>
> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:46, Dorottya Szalay 
> wrote:
>
> Dear Frameworkers,
>
> I am looking for avant-garde films *made by women* that tackle the topic
> of prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on
> pornography. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you!
> Best,
> Dorottya
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Cat Tassini
Hi Dorottya

My mind immediately went to Mary Ellen Mark’s “Streetwise.” Her main subject, 
Tiny, is a prostitute, and some of the other people in the film are too. Hope 
this helps!

Warmly,
Cat

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Seth Pimlott  
> wrote:
> 
> Maybe worth looking at ‘Working Girls’ by  Lizzie Borden who made ‘Born in 
> Flames’. I’ve not seen it myself but have always wanted to track it down.
> Best,
> 
> Seth
> 
>> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:46, Dorottya Szalay  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Frameworkers, 
>> 
>> I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of 
>> prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on 
>> pornography. Any suggestions? 
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> Best,
>> Dorottya
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> 
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Seth Pimlott
Maybe worth looking at ‘Working Girls’ by  Lizzie Borden who made ‘Born in 
Flames’. I’ve not seen it myself but have always wanted to track it down.
Best,

Seth

> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:46, Dorottya Szalay  wrote:
> 
> Dear Frameworkers, 
> 
> I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of 
> prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on 
> pornography. Any suggestions? 
> 
> Thank you!
> Best,
> Dorottya
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Sara Condo
Barbara DeGenevieve's *Desperado*.. all her work was about pornography and
ethics surrounding the power dynamics around the topic

https://vimeo.com/29580057





On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:42 AM Elena Duque  wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Liberty's Booty, by Vivienne Dick:
> http://www.luxonline.org.uk/artists/vivienne_dick/libertys_booty.html
>
> Not exactly experimental, but quite interesting: Working Girls, by Lizzie
> Borden.
>
> Cheers,
>
> El jue., 10 ene. 2019 a las 17:59, Lauren Howes ()
> escribió:
>
>> Hi Dorottya,
>>
>> Happy New Year! You may have seen Naomi’s work when you were at CFMDC
>> doing research, also Janice Cole and Holly Dale’s  films, Hookers on Davie,
>> + Minimum Charge No Cover, Mercy by Abigail Child, and more recently
>> Slumberparty 2018 by Hazel Meyer are a few gems from the CFMDC catalogue.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Lauren
>> __
>> Lauren Howes, Executive Director
>> Canadian Filmmakers Distribution Centre
>> www.cfmdc.org //416-588-0725
>> Follow us on twitter: @cfmdc
>>
>>
>>
>> *Celebrating 50 Years of Distribution Excellence 1967-2017 *
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2019-01-10, 5:34 AM, "mstark...@gmail.com" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> naomi uman’s ‘Removed’
>>
>> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah  wrote:
>>
>> Hello Dorottya,
>>
>> I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating
>> from the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films &
>> other genres of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some
>> academic writings I can also share with you. Write to me off list if
>> interested.
>>
>> Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
>> Multimedia Artist
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Frameworkers,
>>
>> I am looking for avant-garde films *made by women* that tackle the topic
>> of prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on
>> pornography. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thank you!
>> Best,
>> Dorottya
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>
>
> --
> Elena Duque Viña
> Telf: (+34) 605431072
> http://cargocollective.com/elenaduque 
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>


-- 
Sara Condo
e: saraco...@gmail.com
w: www.saracondo.com
p: 708-362-7103
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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Elena Duque
Hello!

Liberty's Booty, by Vivienne Dick:
http://www.luxonline.org.uk/artists/vivienne_dick/libertys_booty.html

Not exactly experimental, but quite interesting: Working Girls, by Lizzie
Borden.

Cheers,

El jue., 10 ene. 2019 a las 17:59, Lauren Howes ()
escribió:

> Hi Dorottya,
>
> Happy New Year! You may have seen Naomi’s work when you were at CFMDC
> doing research, also Janice Cole and Holly Dale’s  films, Hookers on Davie,
> + Minimum Charge No Cover, Mercy by Abigail Child, and more recently
> Slumberparty 2018 by Hazel Meyer are a few gems from the CFMDC catalogue.
>
> All the best,
> Lauren
> __
> Lauren Howes, Executive Director
> Canadian Filmmakers Distribution Centre
> www.cfmdc.org //416-588-0725
> Follow us on twitter: @cfmdc
>
>
>
> *Celebrating 50 Years of Distribution Excellence 1967-2017 *
>
>
>
> On 2019-01-10, 5:34 AM, "mstark...@gmail.com"  wrote:
>
> naomi uman’s ‘Removed’
>
> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah  wrote:
>
> Hello Dorottya,
>
> I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating
> from the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films &
> other genres of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some
> academic writings I can also share with you. Write to me off list if
> interested.
>
> Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
> Multimedia Artist
>
> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay 
> wrote:
>
> Dear Frameworkers,
>
> I am looking for avant-garde films *made by women* that tackle the topic
> of prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on
> pornography. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you!
> Best,
> Dorottya
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
> --
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>


-- 
Elena Duque Viña
Telf: (+34) 605431072
http://cargocollective.com/elenaduque 
___
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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Lauren Howes
Hi Dorottya,

Happy New Year! You may have seen Naomi¹s work when you were at CFMDC doing
research, also Janice Cole and Holly Dale¹s  films, Hookers on Davie, +
Minimum Charge No Cover, Mercy by Abigail Child, and more recently
Slumberparty 2018 by Hazel Meyer are a few gems from the CFMDC catalogue.

All the best,
Lauren
__
Lauren Howes, Executive Director
Canadian Filmmakers Distribution Centre
www.cfmdc.org //416-588-0725
Follow us on twitter: @cfmdc

Celebrating 50 Years of Distribution Excellence
1967-2017




On 2019-01-10, 5:34 AM, "mstark...@gmail.com"  wrote:

> naomi uman¹s ŒRemoved¹
> 
> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Dorottya,
>> 
>> I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating from
>> the 1930¹s to the 1970¹s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films & other
>> genres of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some academic
>> writings I can also share with you. Write to me off list if interested.
>> 
>> Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
>> Multimedia Artist
>> 
>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Frameworkers,
>>> 
>>> I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of
>>> prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on
>>> pornography. Any suggestions?
>>> 
>>> Thank you!
>>> Best,
>>> Dorottya
>>> ___
>>> FrameWorks mailing list
>>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

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[Frameworks] RECALL : GERMAINE DULAC'S WRITINGS ON CINEMA AVAILABLE IN FRENCH AND ENGLISH

2019-01-10 Thread paris-experimental
To remind you, please


NEW RELEASE OF GERMAINE DULAC'S TEXTS ON CINEMA 

E-BOOK EDITIONS AVAILABLE IN FRENCH AND ENGLISH



French version

* Germaine Dulac, Écrits sur le cinéma (1919-1937),  Paris Expérimental, 
Kindle, 2018. 


English translation

* Germaine Dulac, Writings on cinema (1919-1937), Paris Expérimental, Kindle, 
2018.




Yours,

Christian Lebrat
PARIS EXPERIMENTAL
http://www.paris-experimental.asso.fr




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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Tara Nelson
Bonnie Sherr Klein's *Not a Love Story: A Film About Pornography*

Arguably avant-garde for a documentary

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:40 AM John Sundholm 
wrote:

> gunvor nelson: take off
>
>
> /john
> --
> *Från:* FrameWorks  för Rob
> Gawthrop 
> *Skickat:* den 10 januari 2019 14:12:46
> *Till:* Experimental Film Discussion List
> *Ämne:* Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and
> pornography
>
> Chantal Akerman   *Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles*
> Birgit & Willem Hein Kali-Film
> Claudia Schillinger *Between*
>
> *Rob*
>
>
> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah  wrote:
>
> Hello Dorottya,
>
> I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating
> from the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films &
> other genres of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some
> academic writings I can also share with you. Write to me off list if
> interested.
>
> Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
> Multimedia Artist
>
> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay 
> wrote:
>
> Dear Frameworkers,
>
> I am looking for avant-garde films *made by women* that tackle the topic
> of prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on
> pornography. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you!
> Best,
> Dorottya
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread John Sundholm
gunvor nelson: take off


/john


Från: FrameWorks  för Rob Gawthrop 

Skickat: den 10 januari 2019 14:12:46
Till: Experimental Film Discussion List
Ämne: Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

Chantal Akerman   Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
Birgit & Willem Hein Kali-Film
Claudia Schillinger Between

Rob


On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah 
mailto:solisl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello Dorottya,

I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating from 
the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films & other genres 
of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some academic writings I 
can also share with you. Write to me off list if interested.

Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
Multimedia Artist

On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay 
mailto:szalaydorot...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Frameworkers,

I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of 
prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on pornography. 
Any suggestions?

Thank you!
Best,
Dorottya
___
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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Rob Gawthrop
Chantal Akerman   Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles 
Birgit & Willem Hein Kali-Film
Claudia Schillinger Between

Rob


> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah  wrote:
> 
> Hello Dorottya,
> 
> I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating from 
> the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films & other 
> genres of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some academic 
> writings I can also share with you. Write to me off list if interested. 
> 
> Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
> Multimedia Artist
> 
> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay  > wrote:
> 
>> Dear Frameworkers, 
>> 
>> I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of 
>> prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on 
>> pornography. Any suggestions? 
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> Best,
>> Dorottya
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com 
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks 
>> 
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Albert Alcoz
Here you can find some good information about this topic.

The *Xperimental Eros* compilation released by Other Cinema:
http://www.othercinemadvd.com/xe.html

Julia Ostertag and Peggy Ahwesh's films could be useful.

Best,
Albert

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:34 AM mstark...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> naomi uman’s ‘Removed’
>
> On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah  wrote:
>
> Hello Dorottya,
>
> I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating
> from the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films &
> other genres of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some
> academic writings I can also share with you. Write to me off list if
> interested.
>
> Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
> Multimedia Artist
>
> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay 
> wrote:
>
> Dear Frameworkers,
>
> I am looking for avant-garde films *made by women* that tackle the topic
> of prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on
> pornography. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you!
> Best,
> Dorottya
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
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>


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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread mstark...@gmail.com
naomi uman’s ‘Removed’

On 10 Jan 2019, at 09:54, Dinorah  wrote:

> Hello Dorottya,
> 
> I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating from 
> the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films & other 
> genres of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some academic 
> writings I can also share with you. Write to me off list if interested. 
> 
> Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
> Multimedia Artist
> 
> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay  wrote:
> 
>> Dear Frameworkers, 
>> 
>> I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of 
>> prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on 
>> pornography. Any suggestions? 
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> Best,
>> Dorottya
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

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Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Dinorah
Hello Dorottya,

I have a film that is made from hand-colored, hand-scratched porn dating from 
the 1930’s to the 1970’s, featuring Scopitone nudies, stag films & other genres 
of porn. Additionally the work has been mentioned in some academic writings I 
can also share with you. Write to me off list if interested. 

Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
Multimedia Artist

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Dorottya Szalay  wrote:
> 
> Dear Frameworkers, 
> 
> I am looking for avant-garde films made by women that tackle the topic of 
> prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on 
> pornography. Any suggestions? 
> 
> Thank you!
> Best,
> Dorottya
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[Frameworks] avant-garde films about prostitution and pornography

2019-01-10 Thread Dorottya Szalay
Dear Frameworkers,

I am looking for avant-garde films *made by women* that tackle the topic of
prostitution (sex workers). Also searching for films that focus on
pornography. Any suggestions?

Thank you!
Best,
Dorottya
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