Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-22 Thread David Tetzlaff 
Sounds painful, but of only limited relevance to the larger issue at hand. You 
haven't experienced real projection hell until you've sat though a feature 
projected from a color-faded 16mm print with a malfunctioning arc-lamp 
lightsource -- which is how I first saw 'The Third Generation' (great film 
BTW). 

The fact your DVD source was a poor transfer, and it was shown on a 1-chip DLP 
(the color wheel creates the moires) speaks only to those specific 
technologies, not to any generalizable distinction between all film projection 
and all digital projection.


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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-22 Thread Aaron F. Ross 
(Frankenstein's monster voice) Video bad! Film good! Grrr! GRR!




At 11/22/2011, you wrote:
Sounds painful, but of only limited relevance to the larger issue at 
hand. You haven't experienced real projection hell until you've sat 
though a feature projected from a color-faded 16mm print with a 
malfunctioning arc-lamp lightsource -- which is how I first saw 'The 
Third Generation' (great film BTW). The fact your DVD source was a 
poor transfer, and it was shown on a 1-chip DLP (the color wheel 
creates the moires) speaks only to those specific technologies, not 
to any generalizable distinction between all film projection and all 
digital projection. ___ 
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---

Aaron F. Ross
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-22 Thread Steven Gladstone 
On 11/22/11 3:32 PM, Aaron F. Ross wrote:
 (Frankenstein's monster voice) Video bad! Film good! Grrr! GRR!


:-)

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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-21 Thread Tim Halloran 

Your ignorance of the factors involved in the processing of cinematic 
information is astounding.
 
Tim 

 So, the flicker of analog celluloid projection is a desirable 
 feature? Get real. The fact that the screen is black half the time is 
 somehow a good thing? That's preposterous. 
 
 Aaron
 ---
 
 Aaron F. Ross
 Digital Arts Guild
 
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-21 Thread Carlileb 
 
In a message dated 11/21/2011 1:24:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
televis...@hotmail.com writes:

  So, the flicker of analog celluloid projection is a desirable 
  feature? Get real. The fact that the screen is black half the time is 
  somehow a good thing? That's preposterous.  





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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-21 Thread Steven Gladstone 
On 11/21/11 9:24 PM, Steven Gladstone wrote:
 I think Imax may use some other system to
 transport the film

I meant IMAX projectors.

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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-21 Thread Allen Riley 
Last night I watched Stalker digitally projected from a DVD and noticed two
things: the stillness and length of the shots combined with the movement of
the frame confused the MPEG codec, causing everything to digitally wiggle,
and that the rainbow effect was extremely prominent and distracting in
still shots where the viewer is encouraged to investigate the space of the
shot.  It was disturbing to me that the style of the film
was incompatible with the technology used to display it.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Steven Gladstone 
ste...@gladstonefilms.com wrote:

 On 11/21/11 9:24 PM, Steven Gladstone wrote:
  I think Imax may use some other system to
  transport the film

 I meant IMAX projectors.

 --
 Steven Gladstone
 New York Based Cinematographer
 Gladstone films
 Blog - http://indiekicker.reelgrok.com/
 http://www.blakehousemovie.com
 http://www.gladstonefilms.com
 917-886-5858
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-18 Thread Steven Gladstone 
On 11/17/11 6:06 PM, Fred Camper wrote:

 VHS wrecked the aesthetic of many, if not most, films. There are
 perhaps some films whose aesthetic will be mostly or totally lost even
 in 4K projection.

Most modern flat screen TVs have a few settings (Mpeg NR among them) 
that render films to look like they were shot as sitcoms in the 80's. 
Uh It is horrendous and sadly many people do not notice, I even 
have a friend who prefers it. It looks like 29.97 interlaced and is 
horrible to my eye.

DLP projection is always on so there is no blackness in which the mind 
can chew over the image it just saw, which brings the experince out of 
the realm of cinema for me.

Those two reasons are the most enduring reasons for film distribution:

1. The viewing state from film projection is different from Electronic 
Cinema.

2. In Film projection the bulb illumination can be off, but a good print 
is a good print, with electronic distribution (especially to the home) 
forget it, things will never look the way you intend.

These two points are not enough to overcome the costs involved in making 
prints and shipping them.

-- 
Steven Gladstone
New York Based Cinematographer
Gladstone films
Blog - http://indiekicker.reelgrok.com/
http://www.blakehousemovie.com
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-18 Thread Aaron F. Ross 
At 11/18/2011, Steven Gladstone wrote:
DLP projection is always on so there is no blackness in which the 
mind can chew over the image it just saw, which brings the experince 
out of the realm of cinema for me. Those two reasons are the most 
enduring reasons for film distribution: 1. The viewing state from 
film projection is different from Electronic Cinema. 2. In Film 
projection the bulb illumination can be off, but a good print is a 
good print, with electronic distribution (especially to the home) 
forget it, things will never look the way you intend. These two 
points are not enough to overcome the costs involved in making 
prints and shipping them. -- Steven Gladstone

-

So, the flicker of analog celluloid projection is a desirable 
feature? Get real. The fact that the screen is black half the time is 
somehow a good thing? That's preposterous. The rotating shutter was 
developed precisely because of the eyestrain of flicker, and it's 
only a partial solution.

Likewise, the idea that a good print guarantees a good projection is 
equally ridiculous. Come on, let's face reality. Analog projectors 
can have problems too. Xenon arc lamps are not perfect, invincible, 
idealized angelic entities that never fail. The bottom line is, 
things will never look the way you intend, regardless of the format.

So many of the comments on this list seem to be head-in-the-sand 
denials of reality, clearly cognitive dissonance reduction in full 
effect. Celluloid film's days are numbered, and that is sad because 
the unique properties of that medium will be lost. But what about the 
advantages of newer technologies? Why would a multi-billion-dollar 
industry want to abandon a tried-and-true technology?

Aaron
---

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Digital Arts Guild

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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-18 Thread Jason Halprin 
On 11/18/2011 Aaron F. Ross aa...@digitalartsguild.com wrote:

So many of the comments on this list seem to be head-in-the-sand 
denials of reality, clearly cognitive dissonance reduction in full 
effect. Celluloid film's days are numbered, and that is sad because 
the unique properties of that medium will be lost. But what about the 
advantages of newer technologies? Why would a multi-billion-dollar 
industry want to abandon a tried-and-true technology?

--

Aaron, enlighten us. Why do you keep reading the list? Anyone who wishes to 
continue to shoot, edit, project, and watch celluloid is obviously an idiot, so 
what is to be gained by lowering yourself to engage in such jaded, naive 
discourse?


-Jason Halprin

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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-18 Thread Steven Gladstone 
On 11/18/11 2:38 PM, Aaron F. Ross wrote:

 So, the flicker of analog celluloid projection is a desirable
 feature? Get real.


 Likewise, the idea that a good print guarantees a good projection is
 equally ridiculous.

Aaron, I believe that there is a difference in the experience of 
watching film projected as opposed to electronic projection.

I believe that part of that difference is that you sit in the dark for 
half the time, and in that space between the frames it is where Cinema 
lives. Yes there are 2 and three bladed shutters that break the 24 fps 
into 48 and 72 flicks per second, there is still black moments in there 
which are not noticed, but make a difference as compared to not having 
ANY moments without images bombarding your retina and brain. You don't 
have to believe that, it doesn't shake my view of the universe if others 
do not agree with me.

Some people find Gate weave to be desirable, I'm not really one of them, 
as long as it isn't heinious or distracting, it doesn't really bother me 
(except for credits - uh.)

As far as the prints, the point to make is that with a print - if it is 
a good print, you have eliminated many variables that exist in 
electronic projection.

The potential Bulb problems exist for both. However there are far more 
adjustments available to an electronic cinema projector that will affect 
the image than a film projector. Which was my point.

I don't expect film projection to survive as the mainstream form of 
distribution, there are too many other factors that favor electronic 
distribution.

There are positives and negatives to both.
-- 
Steven Gladstone
New York Based Cinematographer
Gladstone films
Blog - http://indiekicker.reelgrok.com/
http://www.blakehousemovie.com
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
917-886-5858
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-17 Thread Fred Camper 
Quoting carli...@aol.com:

 I also think that this look appeal-thing is like wanting to buy  a
 blow-up doll as a substitute for a girlfriend.

I really don't want to restart the film/video thing, but feel the need  
to make a couple of observations.

It seems to be entirely acceptable and unquestioned on this list to  
post that some or all forms of video projection look like crap, as the  
analogy above, film=live girlfriend and video=blow-up doll, confirms.  
Praise of video's own unique possibilities, many of which are  
different from film and can produce results that film cannot, seems  
almost entirely absent.

As a format for presenting film, it is, of course, imperfect, as I  
myself argued almost three decades ago, though that was in the days of  
VHS, a lot worse than more recent formats.

But we need to remember that film is not a girlfriend. It is a strip  
of plastic with a bunch of chemicals, not a lot more substantial  
than digital formats, and almost as alienated from actual human  
presences. The pseudo mystical statements with words like never  
strike me as not substantiatable. We cannot predict what future  
technology will come up with. To the film critic who once defined a  
great film as time spent with people one likes that one wishes would  
never end, I would reply, if you want a real person, go out and spend  
time with one!

One analogy one might consider is to a live concert of classical music  
versus a recording. The difference there is huger than between film  
and high quality video, and some people I respect, John Cage and Peter  
Kubelka to name two, got/get pleasure out of recordings. Yet I can,  
and many times a good recording is preferable to me, and more musical,  
than a bad performance. I once heard one of my heroes, Ton Koopman,  
live, leading his group in some Bach cantatas. I have all his  
recordings of these. Yet, yet, yet, the acoustics in the hall were so  
poor,  much was lost, and in the end I got more pleasure from the  
recordings. Yet of course a recording can never replace, or be the  
same as, a concert with live performers. But recordings are invaluable  
for many reasons, not the least that they permit multiple listenings.

VHS wrecked the aesthetic of many, if not most, films. There are  
perhaps some films whose aesthetic will be mostly or totally lost even  
in 4K projection. I suspect they are very few compared to the films  
destroyed on VHS or even on DVD. A small or even medium-sized loss is  
not a ruination. I hope those who want to work with film will keep it  
alive in various ways. And I don't want to lose film, certainly not  
for preservation of films, and will still always prefer it for films  
shot on film. But we have little influence over what happens on the  
industrial scale, and while we should do what we can, a group of our  
size and influence is not going to stop time. In the end, no one can.

Fred Camper
Chicago



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[Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread Freya 

I'm quite skeptical about all these reports about the death of film we are 
suddenly seeing. They seem to  frequently turn out to have little substance to 
them on further examination.
Aside from which, that last article seems to be more about the death of cinema 
and the rise of video projection, than 35mm film per se. I'd suggest it's more 
written from the point of view that the united states is the whole world than 
first world arrogance per se.

It's interesting to notice that News Corp were implicated in that article too.
Check out this classic News Corp letter thats doing the rounds at the moment!
It's got that perfect mix of friendlyness and vaguely threatening going on that 
News Corp do so well. Sort of you WILL comply or we will make things very 
difficult for you!

http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f16/t000949.html

I'm suspecting that many of these recent articles are planted for commercial 
reasons.

love

Freya





--- On Wed, 11/16/11, Alex McCarron alex.mccar...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Alex McCarron alex.mccar...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] MSNBC: Report: 35mm film will be dead by 2015
To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011, 6:00 PM

That's a hell of a spin. Do they have the money to keep Kodak in business? I'd 
figure it would be more likely small theaters in India would be snatching up 
nicer consumer grade projectors from Best Buy Bombay as quality improves and 
expectations for quality drops and a point of acceptable mediocrity is reached 
which seems to be the trend for culture of the future.


On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Jay Hudson jkh30...@gmail.com wrote:

I can't tolerate any more of these reports.  They are generally based

on first world arrogance.  Little theaters in India don't have to

money to sufficiently cool digital projectors.   Here it is certainly

the near future, but there is a wider world out there.



On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:22 AM, David Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com wrote:

 Citing somethine called IHS Screen Digest Cinema Intelligence Service...



 http://tinyurl.com/6oz7gl4



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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread 40 Frames 
DCI requires that exhibitors moving to the DCI platform *must* remove 35mm
projection capabilities from their booth, that is
in order to be in compliance. It's commercial interests working to advance
in short time to the new platform.

Makes me think of what happened in the US with public rail transportation
in the US (1920-1950). National City Lines buying up
trolley and other rail companies and shutting them down to quickly advance
the transition to the use of diesel buses for public transportation.

Business can improve when removing alternatives that are viewed as
competing with your product. And what a great idea to replace trolleys with
stinky, loud and often dangerously driven buses (a bus driver killed four
pedestrians in Portland last year, apparently because the driver did not
see them in the crosswalk).

Portland, is now re-building the rail infrastructure it tore out years ago.
And at an enormous cost.

The upside? It's a good time to pick up Century and Simplex 35mm projectors
for your small theater. Set-up a booth to comply with
FIAF standards and source prints from archives and specialty distributors
for small audience public presentation.




On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Freya freya...@yahoo.com wrote:


 I'm quite skeptical about all these reports about the death of film we are
 suddenly seeing. They seem to  frequently turn out to have little substance
 to them on further examination.
 Aside from which, that last article seems to be more about the death of
 cinema and the rise of video projection, than 35mm film per se. I'd suggest
 it's more written from the point of view that the united states is the
 whole world than first world arrogance per se.

 It's interesting to notice that News Corp were implicated in that article
 too.
 Check out this classic News Corp letter thats doing the rounds at the
 moment!
 It's got that perfect mix of friendlyness and vaguely threatening going on
 that News Corp do so well. Sort of you WILL comply or we will make things
 very difficult for you!

 http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f16/t000949.html

 I'm suspecting that many of these recent articles are planted for
 commercial reasons.

 love

 Freya





 --- On *Wed, 11/16/11, Alex McCarron alex.mccar...@gmail.com* wrote:


 From: Alex McCarron alex.mccar...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Frameworks] MSNBC: Report: 35mm film will be dead by 2015
 To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
 Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011, 6:00 PM

 That's a hell of a spin. Do they have the money to keep Kodak in business?
 I'd figure it would be more likely small theaters in India would be
 snatching up nicer consumer grade projectors from Best Buy Bombay as
 quality improves and expectations for quality drops and a point of
 acceptable mediocrity is reached which seems to be the trend for culture of
 the future.

 On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Jay Hudson 
 jkh30...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=jkh30...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 I can't tolerate any more of these reports.  They are generally based
 on first world arrogance.  Little theaters in India don't have to
 money to sufficiently cool digital projectors.   Here it is certainly
 the near future, but there is a wider world out there.

 On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:22 AM, David Tetzlaff 
 djte...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=djte...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Citing somethine called IHS Screen Digest Cinema Intelligence
 Service...
 
  http://tinyurl.com/6oz7gl4
 
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-- 
40 FRAMES
Alain LeTourneau
Pam Minty

40 FRAMES
5232 N Williams Ave
Portland, Oregon 97217
USA

+1 503 231 6548
www.40frames.org
www.16mmdirectory.org
www.emptyquarterfilm.org
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread Bill Basquin 
I have never heard ofthe"IHS Screen Digest Cinema Intelligence Service".It sounds like a blogger who is practiced at stating opinions with authority and with a name that is meant to sound like an institution. Has anyone ever heard of "IHS Screen Digest Cinema Intelligence Service" before or otherwise know it/them to be in any way reputable?--Bill BasquinSan Francisco, CA-Original Message-
From: 40 Frames 
Sent: Nov 16, 2011 11:52 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

DCI requires that exhibitors moving to the DCI platform *must* remove 35mmprojection capabilities from their booth, that isin order to be in compliance. It's commercial interests working to advancein short time to the new platform.Makes me think of what happened in the US with public rail transportationin the US (1920-1950). National City Lines buying uptrolley and other rail companies and shutting them down to quickly advancethe transition to the use of diesel buses for public transportation.Business can improve when removing alternatives that are viewed ascompeting with your product. And what a great idea to replace trolleys withstinky, loud and often dangerously driven buses (a bus driver killed fourpedestrians in Portland last year, apparently because the driver did notsee them in the crosswalk).Portland, is now re-building the rail infrastructure it tore out years ago.And at an enormous cost.The upside? It's a good time to pick up Century and Simplex 35mm projectorsfor your small theater. Set-up a booth to comply withFIAF standards and source prints from archives and specialty distributorsfor small audience public presentation.On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Freya  wrote: I'm quite skeptical about all these reports about the death of film we are suddenly seeing. They seem to  frequently turn out to have little substance to them on further examination. Aside from which, that last article seems to be more about the death of cinema and the rise of video projection, than 35mm film per se. I'd suggest it's more written from the point of view that the united states is the whole world than first world arrogance per se. It's interesting to notice that News Corp were implicated in that article too. Check out this classic News Corp letter thats doing the rounds at the moment! It's got that perfect mix of friendlyness and vaguely threatening going on that News Corp do so well. Sort of "you WILL comply or we will make things very difficult for you!" http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f16/t000949.html I'm suspecting that many of these recent articles are planted for commercial reasons. love Freya --- On *Wed, 11/16/11, Alex McCarron * wrote: From: Alex McCarron  Subject: Re: [Frameworks] MSNBC: "Report: 35mm film will be dead by 2015" To: "Experimental Film Discussion List"  Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011, 6:00 PM That's a hell of a spin. Do they have the money to keep Kodak in business? I'd figure it would be more likely small theaters in India would be snatching up nicer consumer grade projectors from Best Buy Bombay as quality improves and expectations for quality drops and a point of acceptable mediocrity is reached which seems to be the trend for culture of the future. On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Jay Hudson   wrote: I can't tolerate any more of these reports.  They are generally based on first world arrogance.  Little theaters in India don't have to money to sufficiently cool digital projectors.   Here it is certainly the near future, but there is a wider world out there. On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:22 AM, David Tetzlaff  wrote:  Citing somethine called "IHS Screen Digest Cinema Intelligence Service"...   http://tinyurl.com/6oz7gl4   ___  FrameWorks mailing list  FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com  https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks  ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks-- 40 FRAMESAlain LeTourneauPam Minty40 FRAMES5232 N Williams AvePortland, Oregon 97217USA+1 503 231 6548www.40frames.orgwww.16mmdirectory.orgwww.emptyquarterfilm.org
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread Aaron F. Ross 
The comparison to the well-documented rail atrocities committed by GM 
and Firestone is apt. However, that does not stop reality from 
existing. The removal of analog projectors from theaters, via 
strong-arm tactics or not, is something that is happening and cannot 
be stopped by us. It is wise to admit defeat rather than fight an 
unwinnable war. But of course, the mechanisms of cognitive dissonance 
reduction can result in beliefs being more strongly held precisely 
*because of* evidence to the contrary. Skepticism is healthy; denial 
is a defense mechanism that is ultimately maladaptive.

Aaron




At 11/16/2011, you wrote:

DCI requires that exhibitors moving to the DCI platform must remove 
35mm projection capabilities from their booth, that is
in order to be in compliance. It's commercial interests working to 
advance in short time to the new platform.

Makes me think of what happened in the US with public rail 
transportation in the US (1920-1950). National City Lines buying up
trolley and other rail companies and shutting them down to quickly 
advance the transition to the use of diesel buses for public transportation.

Business can improve when removing alternatives that are viewed as 
competing with your product. And what a great idea to replace 
trolleys with stinky, loud and often dangerously driven buses (a bus 
driver killed four pedestrians in Portland last year, apparently 
because the driver did not see them in the crosswalk).

Portland, is now re-building the rail infrastructure it tore out 
years ago. And at an enormous cost.

The upside? It's a good time to pick up Century and Simplex 35mm 
projectors for your small theater. Set-up a booth to comply with
FIAF standards and source prints from archives and specialty 
distributors for small audience public presentation.




On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Freya 
mailto:freya...@yahoo.comfreya...@yahoo.com wrote:

I'm quite skeptical about all these reports about the death of film 
we are suddenly seeing. They seem to  frequently turn out to have 
little substance to them on further examination.
Aside from which, that last article seems to be more about the death 
of cinema and the rise of video projection, than 35mm film per se. 
I'd suggest it's more written from the point of view that the united 
states is the whole world than first world arrogance per se.

It's interesting to notice that News Corp were implicated in that article too.
Check out this classic News Corp letter thats doing the rounds at the moment!
It's got that perfect mix of friendlyness and vaguely threatening 
going on that News Corp do so well. Sort of you WILL comply or we 
will make things very difficult for you!

http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f16/t000949.htmlhttp://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f16/t000949.html

I'm suspecting that many of these recent articles are planted for 
commercial reasons.

love

Freya





--- On Wed, 11/16/11, Alex McCarron 
mailto:alex.mccar...@gmail.comalex.mccar...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Alex McCarron mailto:alex.mccar...@gmail.comalex.mccar...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] MSNBC: Report: 35mm film will be dead by 2015
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.comframeworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011, 6:00 PM

That's a hell of a spin. Do they have the money to keep Kodak in 
business? I'd figure it would be more likely small theaters in India 
would be snatching up nicer consumer grade projectors from Best Buy 
Bombay as quality improves and expectations for quality drops and a 
point of acceptable mediocrity is reached which seems to be the 
trend for culture of the future.

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Jay Hudson 
http://mc/compose?to=jkh30...@gmail.comjkh30...@gmail.com wrote:
I can't tolerate any more of these reports.  They are generally based
on first world arrogance.  Little theaters in India don't have to
money to sufficiently cool digital projectors.   Here it is certainly
the near future, but there is a wider world out there.

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:22 AM, David Tetzlaff 
http://mc/compose?to=djte...@gmail.comdjte...@gmail.com wrote:
  Citing somethine called IHS Screen Digest Cinema Intelligence Service...
 
  http://tinyurl.com/6oz7gl4http://tinyurl.com/6oz7gl4
 
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread Fred Camper 
Programmers I know say that it is harder and harder to rent 35mm  
prints. Studios try to offer blu-ray, or, better, 4 K files on hard  
drives. Sometimes they don't make prints anymore. And archives, as a  
result, are now overwhelmed with requests for prints, and are cutting  
back and limiting how often they will send their prints out.

Sadly, we should probably be thinking about whether there are  
improvements to 4K and digital projection systems that will get us  
closer to the look of films that may soon not be available on film, or  
are already unavailable.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread Carlileb 
 
In a message dated 11/16/2011 5:21:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
f...@fredcamper.com writes:

Sadly,  we should probably be thinking about whether there are  
improvements  to 4K and digital projection systems that will get us  
closer to the  look of films that may soon not be available on film, or  
are already  unavailable.

Fred Camper
Chicago






If we do that then there will be no motivation for the industry to keep  
prints going.
 
I also think that this look appeal-thing is like wanting to buy  a 
blow-up doll as a substitute for a girlfriend.___
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread Adam R. Levine 


 In a message dated 11/16/2011 20:26:01 -0500 (EST)
 carli...@aol.com writes:

 I also think that this look appeal-thing is like wanting to buy  a
 blow-up doll as a substitute for a girlfriend.


Indeed. Food for thought right there.
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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread D Dawson 
Why use a potter¹s wheel when you can get something manufactured out of
plastic?

Film will be for the potters, and video will be for the plastics of the
commercial industry.


On 11/16/11 7:38 PM, Adam R. Levine ada...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 In a message dated 11/16/2011 20:26:01 -0500 (EST)
 carli...@aol.com writes:
 
 I also think that this look appeal-thing is like wanting to buy  a
 blow-up doll as a substitute for a girlfriend.
 
 
 Indeed. Food for thought right there. 
 
 
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www.decodawson.com 


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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

2011-11-16 Thread Tim Halloran 


It is not just about replicating the look of film, whatever that means on a 
physical surface level. It is more about what happens when you view real 
film--the nature of projected film demands a kind of physiological and 
cognitive processing that is simply absent with digital projection. In that 
regard, digital projection will NEVER be like real projected film. Once that is 
understood, the argument for preserving the unique experience of real film 
projection becomes more tangible.
 
Tim
 
 
 
 Sadly, we should probably be thinking about whether there are 
 improvements to 4K and digital projection systems that will get us 
 closer to the look of films that may soon not be available on film, or 
 are already unavailable.
 
 Fred Camper
 Chicago
 
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