Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Use cuticle scissors. Also, you can rip. Any sort of tape. I always bought regular tape when the Ciro? brand proved to be far too expensive for the amount I needed. Regular tape dispensers and refills fit a guillotine splicer exactly. These new decorative semi transparent tapes can make nice texture. There are all sorts of versions of hole splicers. Cut one frame, then another, then insert. Overlay. I am not sure I understand the exact question. You know this has been done before, right? On Fri, 12/12/14, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2014, 7:35 AM Thanks Christopher - but I am literally talking about collage.. in very very small pieces... Best, Lena On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM, christopher nigel christophernige...@gmail.com wrote:Hello Lena , it's called Editing , the handmade way ! I would start with tape slicing , as if you make a mistake can always redo ? if you find some old books on filmmaking , there will cover this ? I like this way of making films only done it with my super 8 film's , Christopher On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote:Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Hi Lena, I totally understand what you are referring too and I have made a couple of 16mm films using the collage technique. There are plenty of interesting possibilities that you will discover in the process. Just allow yourself total freedom and experimentation to test results. I would recommend to use splicing tape rather than glue, in case you want to reorganize parts of the film, and also having a projector that can easily take splices. You can get interesting optical sound effects using this technique too. If you're using reversal film, bare in mind it will be very difficult to get negatives, specially if you use different stocks and colour temperatures. In my case, i always screened the originals (in performance contexts) as I was very interested in the instability this technique creates during projection, and the ephemeral nature of the film, which was meant to break at one point (although it never properly did, because the insane amount of splicing tape I used protected the films and the emulsion very well!). The film becomes a performer, as it behaves differently in each projection. Anyway, you may not be interested in these unstable, performative aspects, but in sort I would say there are no rules or paths to follow in making collage on film, just use your imagination and allow yourself total freedom to test results. You will enjoy the process very much. It's like working in a sculptural way when you're applying little flat objects on the film strip, then see what you've done animated on the screen. There are these two dimensions to it that you may like to consider. I have telecined copies of the films and scans of the strips that I could send you if interested. Good luck and enjoy! Esperanza. On Saturday, December 13, 2014, Kathleen Quillian kathl...@dprojx.org wrote: Yes, Helen Hill's compilation Recipes for Disaster includes a whole lot of great information about handmade collage and filmmaking that might be useful for your project. On Dec 12, 2014, at 6:07 AM, Warren Cockerham warrencocker...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','warrencocker...@gmail.com'); wrote: This stuff works pretty well. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001A3Q1XQ/ref=pd_aw_sims_10?pi=SL500_SS115simLd=1 And a copy of this http://www.angoleiro.com/cine_texts/recipes_for_disaster_hill.pdf On Dec 12, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lenadi...@gmail.com'); wrote: Thanks Christopher - but I am literally talking about collage.. in very very small pieces... Best, Lena On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM, christopher nigel christophernige...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','christophernige...@gmail.com'); wrote: Hello Lena , it's called Editing , the handmade way ! I would start with tape slicing , as if you make a mistake can always redo ? if you find some old books on filmmaking , there will cover this ? I like this way of making films only done it with my super 8 film's , Christopher On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lenadi...@gmail.com'); wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena *LENADITTENISSEN.COM http://LENADITTENISSEN.COM* * BERGERNISSEN.COM http://BERGERNISSEN.COM* ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com'); https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com'); https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com'); https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com'); https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- Esperanza Collado - - - - - - - - - - - - - - www.esperanzacollado.org ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
- Cécile FONTAINE - she did, as far as I know, unglue and glue parts of the images etc.in various techniques... lea, From: kathl...@dprojx.org Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:06:09 -0800 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm Yes, Helen Hill's compilation Recipes for Disaster includes a whole lot of great information about handmade collage and filmmaking that might be useful for your project. On Dec 12, 2014, at 6:07 AM, Warren Cockerham warrencocker...@gmail.com wrote: This stuff works pretty well. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001A3Q1XQ/ref=pd_aw_sims_10?pi=SL500_SS115simLd=1 And a copy of this http://www.angoleiro.com/cine_texts/recipes_for_disaster_hill.pdf On Dec 12, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Christopher - but I am literally talking about collage.. in very very small pieces... Best, Lena On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM, christopher nigel christophernige...@gmail.com wrote:Hello Lena , it's called Editing , the handmade way ! I would start with tape slicing , as if you make a mistake can always redo ? if you find some old books on filmmaking , there will cover this ? I like this way of making films only done it with my super 8 film's , Christopher On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote:Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena *LENADITTENISSEN.COM http://LENADITTENISSEN.COM* * BERGERNISSEN.COM http://BERGERNISSEN.COM* ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Hello Lena , it's called Editing , the handmade way ! I would start with tape slicing , as if you make a mistake can always redo ? if you find some old books on filmmaking , there will cover this ? I like this way of making films only done it with my super 8 film's , Christopher On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena *LENADITTENISSEN.COM http://LENADITTENISSEN.COM* * BERGERNISSEN.COM http://BERGERNISSEN.COM* ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Dear Lena, I would love to read the questions and answers if you find someone as I am interested too! Thanks, Milena On 12 Dec 2014, at 10:13, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Thanks Christopher - but I am literally talking about collage.. in very very small pieces... Best, Lena On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM, christopher nigel christophernige...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Lena , it's called Editing , the handmade way ! I would start with tape slicing , as if you make a mistake can always redo ? if you find some old books on filmmaking , there will cover this ? I like this way of making films only done it with my super 8 film's , Christopher On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena *LENADITTENISSEN.COM http://LENADITTENISSEN.COM* * BERGERNISSEN.COM http://BERGERNISSEN.COM* ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
This stuff works pretty well. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001A3Q1XQ/ref=pd_aw_sims_10?pi=SL500_SS115simLd=1 And a copy of this http://www.angoleiro.com/cine_texts/recipes_for_disaster_hill.pdf On Dec 12, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Christopher - but I am literally talking about collage.. in very very small pieces... Best, Lena On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM, christopher nigel christophernige...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Lena , it's called Editing , the handmade way ! I would start with tape slicing , as if you make a mistake can always redo ? if you find some old books on filmmaking , there will cover this ? I like this way of making films only done it with my super 8 film's , Christopher On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Hi Lena, I assume, by collage, you mean editing (montage). Depending on what source materials you want to use, found footage etc. you sometimes need to be mindful of the emulsion position (A-wind or B-wind), single and/or double perforation. Tape splicing does make things much easier for combining different formats to start with. Cement splicing can involve a whole variety of special little techniques when combining diverse footage sources. Some film stocks and/or leader cannot be cement spliced if not acetate based. Another issue is making the splice less visible (or even invisible) in the final result, if that is a concern. Myron Ort On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Actual collage. h. I don't know much about that, but I would assume in some general sense it relates back to Mothlight by Brakhage who held elements in place sandwiched between perforated mylar strips. On Dec 12, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Myron Ort wrote: Hi Lena, I assume, by collage, you mean editing (montage). Depending on what source materials you want to use, found footage etc. you sometimes need to be mindful of the emulsion position (A-wind or B-wind), single and/or double perforation. Tape splicing does make things much easier for combining different formats to start with. Cement splicing can involve a whole variety of special little techniques when combining diverse footage sources. Some film stocks and/or leader cannot be cement spliced if not acetate based. Another issue is making the splice less visible (or even invisible) in the final result, if that is a concern. Myron Ort On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
My lazy thinking: use paper punch for the hole and then substitute insert from another source. film marquetry so to speak, thus no build up of layers. (yes, I am aware this has been done, but maybe the technique could be taken to a whole new level, maybe I will try it myself) On Dec 12, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Myron Ort wrote: Actual collage. h. I don't know much about that, but I would assume in some general sense it relates back to Mothlight by Brakhage who held elements in place sandwiched between perforated mylar strips. On Dec 12, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Myron Ort wrote: Hi Lena, I assume, by collage, you mean editing (montage). Depending on what source materials you want to use, found footage etc. you sometimes need to be mindful of the emulsion position (A-wind or B-wind), single and/or double perforation. Tape splicing does make things much easier for combining different formats to start with. Cement splicing can involve a whole variety of special little techniques when combining diverse footage sources. Some film stocks and/or leader cannot be cement spliced if not acetate based. Another issue is making the splice less visible (or even invisible) in the final result, if that is a concern. Myron Ort On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Lena , All films are a kind of Collage ? what is it that you want to do ? also is the film going to run in a film Projector or on to video ? or on a lightbox ? as stills . If you can give more details of what it is that you would like to do ? but by saying film collage is not much help ? Christopher , On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Myron Ort z...@sonic.net wrote: My lazy thinking: use paper punch for the hole and then substitute insert from another source. film marquetry so to speak, thus no build up of layers. (yes, I am aware this has been done, but maybe the technique could be taken to a whole new level, maybe I will try it myself) On Dec 12, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Myron Ort wrote: Actual collage. h. I don't know much about that, but I would assume in some general sense it relates back to Mothlight by Brakhage who held elements in place sandwiched between perforated mylar strips. On Dec 12, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Myron Ort wrote: Hi Lena, I assume, by collage, you mean editing (montage). Depending on what source materials you want to use, found footage etc. you sometimes need to be mindful of the emulsion position (A-wind or B-wind), single and/or double perforation. Tape splicing does make things much easier for combining different formats to start with. Cement splicing can involve a whole variety of special little techniques when combining diverse footage sources. Some film stocks and/or leader cannot be cement spliced if not acetate based. Another issue is making the splice less visible (or even invisible) in the final result, if that is a concern. Myron Ort On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena *LENADITTENISSEN.COM http://LENADITTENISSEN.COM/* * BERGERNISSEN.COM http://BERGERNISSEN.COM/* ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Analouge collage with 16mm....
Yes, Helen Hill's compilation Recipes for Disaster includes a whole lot of great information about handmade collage and filmmaking that might be useful for your project. On Dec 12, 2014, at 6:07 AM, Warren Cockerham warrencocker...@gmail.com wrote: This stuff works pretty well. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001A3Q1XQ/ref=pd_aw_sims_10?pi=SL500_SS115simLd=1 And a copy of this http://www.angoleiro.com/cine_texts/recipes_for_disaster_hill.pdf On Dec 12, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Christopher - but I am literally talking about collage.. in very very small pieces... Best, Lena On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM, christopher nigel christophernige...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Lena , it's called Editing , the handmade way ! I would start with tape slicing , as if you make a mistake can always redo ? if you find some old books on filmmaking , there will cover this ? I like this way of making films only done it with my super 8 film's , Christopher On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lena Ditte Nissen lenadi...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Frameworkers -- I am about to start working on collaging with 16mm film and wondered if there is anybody out there who I could ask some questions regarding glue, slicing techniques and so forth... Looking forward to hear from you! Best, Lena LENADITTENISSEN.COM BERGERNISSEN.COM ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
