Re: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
It's not hard to make BW photographic film; I have done it. But it is extremely, extremely hard to make perfect film that is just the right dimensions for motion picture work, has perfect perforation, no emulsion defects, and controlled sensitivity and curve shape roll after roll. This fine film from Kodak explains much of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qjBJOFImaU Note that this is showing a facility that no longer exists; the current Rochester plant deals with much much larger quantity runs and everything is even bigger. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
Fred, there is a very detailed technical book that was written and self published by a former Kodak employee:http://www.makingkodakfilm.com/ Its presently out of print, unfortunately. However, it is pretty deep on the tech and is not a light read. There are also several older books that go into detail about film emulsion creation. I don't know any titles off hand but you might come across more information about these on analog photographers forums. My understanding is most of those books are at least 30+ years old and were pretty small press runs for a laboratory community. There is also The Disappearance of Darkness: http://darkness.robertburley.com/ Which is a coffee table book by a photographer who documented the closing of various industry buildings around the world. The book is mainly of photos of abandoned buildings and demolitions but has several good essays and each section has a short description of the history and purposes of the buildings. Kodak, Ilford and Agfa each have sections. The writing is in laymen terms and clearly outlines the relationship between film and mass industry. Its pretty interesting and after reading it, its hard to see much of a future for cinematic use of film. Particularly colour stocks which are much more demanding to make. Black white might survive as an artist and hobbyist medium, Ilford is able to produce short runs of their stock, and their business was boosted when Kodak abandoned photo paper. IIRC Ilford made 16mm in the distant past, maybe when Kodak stops producing BW film, they will get into 16mm. I say shoot what you can afford and enjoy it while it lasts :) John On Thursday, July 31, 2014 2:43:45 PM, Fred Smith fsmit...@rcn.com wrote: I've always wondered just how movie film is made. I remember a letter on this site about a year ago where someone suggested building a smaller machine. Can anyone recomend a site that explains the process? Respectfully, F. Smith On 7/31/2014 2:49 PM, Sean Weitzel wrote: The reason Kodak is so challenged to continue making film, is the simple fact of the manufacturing process. Kodak has only manufactured film on a massive scale. They don't have the means to produce small or boutique runs of various stocks. (Side note: Did anyone see that Kodak had some of their idled film coating lines up for sale on ebay recently for basically scrap prices? the main coating wheel is 4 stories high). What is really going on is Kodak has to be able to forecast how much film of a certain type will be sold. Once they have that forecast, they manufacture and coat what is called a master roll 54 wide and 5200 feet long. From that roll, all of the individual gauges are cut and perforated and packaged, everything from 70mm down to super-8. This is the reason you see so many stocks going into the discontinued notices, or finish to order with absurd minimum quantities is because of the need to be sure a master roll will be sold withing the expiration period. What I believe has happened is the studios have done just this, they've entered into a contract with Kodak to justify Kodak coating more master rolls of the various color negative stocks. Nothing has been said as to what the availability of other types of stocks, such as black and white, recording film, print film, etc will be. I fear some of these lower volume items will eventually go discontinued as the prior master roll is used up. There's a good more detail about the whole process here: http://silverbased.org/plus-x-kodak-woes/ On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com wrote: http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at-deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories As I understand this, they were considering stopping all film manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have more information? Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
I was told recently by a tele-cine operator at iDailies in London, which is digitising all the 35mm test rolls for the new Star Wars movie, that Kodak are continuing to make some stocks until at least 2017 as several studios want to go back to shooting on film. Nicky. -Original Message- From: Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 1:20 Subject: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film? http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at-deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStoriesAs I understand this, they were considering stopping all film manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have more information?Fred CamperChicago___FrameWorks mailing listFrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.comhttps://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
There's this, but it doesn't reveal much more: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/quentin-tarantino-christopher-nolan-judd-apatow-jj-abrams-team-up-to-save-film-stock-20140730 On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:34 AM, nicky.ham...@talktalk.net wrote: I was told recently by a tele-cine operator at iDailies in London, which is digitising all the 35mm test rolls for the new Star Wars movie, that Kodak are continuing to make some stocks until at least 2017 as several studios want to go back to shooting on film. Nicky. -Original Message- From: Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 1:20 Subject: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film? http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at-deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories As I understand this, they were considering stopping all film manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have more information? Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- www.bellavistafilm.com www.slowtale.net ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
This is good news for filmmakers who actually work in film :-) Sent from my iPhone On Jul 31, 2014, at 9:56 AM, Vera Brunner-Sung vbs...@gmail.com wrote: There's this, but it doesn't reveal much more: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/quentin-tarantino-christopher-nolan-judd-apatow-jj-abrams-team-up-to-save-film-stock-20140730 On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:34 AM, nicky.ham...@talktalk.net wrote: I was told recently by a tele-cine operator at iDailies in London, which is digitising all the 35mm test rolls for the new Star Wars movie, that Kodak are continuing to make some stocks until at least 2017 as several studios want to go back to shooting on film. Nicky. -Original Message- From: Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 1:20 Subject: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film? http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at-deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories As I understand this, they were considering stopping all film manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have more information? Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- www.bellavistafilm.com www.slowtale.net ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
The reason Kodak is so challenged to continue making film, is the simple fact of the manufacturing process. Kodak has only manufactured film on a massive scale. They don't have the means to produce small or boutique runs of various stocks. (Side note: Did anyone see that Kodak had some of their idled film coating lines up for sale on ebay recently for basically scrap prices? the main coating wheel is 4 stories high). What is really going on is Kodak has to be able to forecast how much film of a certain type will be sold. Once they have that forecast, they manufacture and coat what is called a master roll 54 wide and 5200 feet long. From that roll, all of the individual gauges are cut and perforated and packaged, everything from 70mm down to super-8. This is the reason you see so many stocks going into the discontinued notices, or finish to order with absurd minimum quantities is because of the need to be sure a master roll will be sold withing the expiration period. What I believe has happened is the studios have done just this, they've entered into a contract with Kodak to justify Kodak coating more master rolls of the various color negative stocks. Nothing has been said as to what the availability of other types of stocks, such as black and white, recording film, print film, etc will be. I fear some of these lower volume items will eventually go discontinued as the prior master roll is used up. There's a good more detail about the whole process here: http://silverbased.org/plus-x-kodak-woes/ On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com wrote: http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at- deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories As I understand this, they were considering stopping all film manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have more information? Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
I've always wondered just how movie film is made. I remember a letter on this site about a year ago where someone suggested building a smaller machine. Can anyone recomend a site that explains the process? Respectfully, F. Smith On 7/31/2014 2:49 PM, Sean Weitzel wrote: The reason Kodak is so challenged to continue making film, is the simple fact of the manufacturing process. Kodak has only manufactured film on a massive scale. They don't have the means to produce small or boutique runs of various stocks. (Side note: Did anyone see that Kodak had some of their idled film coating lines up for sale on ebay recently for basically scrap prices? the main coating wheel is 4 stories high). What is really going on is Kodak has to be able to forecast how much film of a certain type will be sold. Once they have that forecast, they manufacture and coat what is called a master roll 54 wide and 5200 feet long. From that roll, all of the individual gauges are cut and perforated and packaged, everything from 70mm down to super-8. This is the reason you see so many stocks going into the discontinued notices, or finish to order with absurd minimum quantities is because of the need to be sure a master roll will be sold withing the expiration period. What I believe has happened is the studios have done just this, they've entered into a contract with Kodak to justify Kodak coating more master rolls of the various color negative stocks. Nothing has been said as to what the availability of other types of stocks, such as black and white, recording film, print film, etc will be. I fear some of these lower volume items will eventually go discontinued as the prior master roll is used up. There's a good more detail about the whole process here: http://silverbased.org/plus-x-kodak-woes/ On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com mailto:f...@fredcamper.com wrote: http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at-deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories As I understand this, they were considering stopping all film manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have more information? Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com mailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] Did Kodak almost stop making all film?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/kodak-movie-film-at-deaths-door-gets-a-reprieve-1406674752?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories As I understand this, they were considering stopping all film manufacturing, in all gagues, including of print stock. Does anyone have more information? Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
