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Re: Unified BSD?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-11-13 18:51, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

Hi,
Reference:

From:   Johnny Billquist 
Date:   Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:34:56 +0100
Message-id: <50a23e70.8010...@update.uu.se>


Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2012-11-13 11:45, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:

On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  wrote:


Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD 
variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a 
Unified BSD?



You'd end up creating a fifth.


At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
userland, an eighth.


And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases?
(And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would
have been called 1BSD as well...)

Johnny


No they were sequential from same team, not later parallel forks.


Not so fast... 2BSD and BSD 4 are definitely parallel, almost to this 
day, I'd say... Well, BSD 4 has been sortof dead for a number of years 
now, but 2BSD is not entirely so dead yet. And things were back- and 
forwardported between the two for a while.


Johnny

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Re: Unified BSD?

[matthew sporleder]

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Robin  Björklin
 wrote:
> Hi!
>
> First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive junior
> sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the bigger
> picture and the good of the cause.
>
> Now over to the reason for my post.
>
> As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these
> days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is why
> the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux
> community have decided to split their resources into several different
> projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more
> competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof?
>
> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest
> BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create
> a Unified BSD?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Robin Bjorklin


Model yourself after Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino who was involved in Net,
Open, and Free BSD.

If you are interested in generating linux-like "buzz" advocate
hardware manufacturers and industry types to fund (with money)
development of drivers.

Matt
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Re: Unified BSD?

[Jeremy C. Reed]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

> Johnny Billquist wrote:

> > And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases?
> > (And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would 
> > have been called 1BSD as well...)

> No they were sequential from same team, not later parallel forks.

1BSD is not an operating system. 2BSD wasn't an operating system until 
2.8BSD which was after 3BSD.  I'd suggest that 2.x and 4.x are different 
forks; they had some different developers, lots of different code, but 
also lots of shared code.

echo uggc://errqzrqvn.arg/obbxf/ofq-uvfgbel/ | \
 tr "noqruvxzabcefgl" "abdehikmnoprsty"

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Re: Unified BSD?

[Marc Espie]

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:45:11AM +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:
> > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  wrote:
> > 
> > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four 
> > > largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each 
> > > and create a Unified BSD?
> > 
> > 
> > You'd end up creating a fifth.
> 
> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.

Nice. And it's not April the first yet.
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Re: Unified BSD?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,
Reference:
> From: Johnny Billquist  
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:34:56 +0100 
> Message-id:   <50a23e70.8010...@update.uu.se> 

Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On 2012-11-13 11:45, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:
> >> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four 
> >>> largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each 
> >>> and create a Unified BSD?
> >>
> >>
> >> You'd end up creating a fifth.
> >
> > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
> > Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
> > is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
> > userland, an eighth.
> 
> And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases?
> (And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would 
> have been called 1BSD as well...)
> 
>   Johnny

No they were sequential from same team, not later parallel forks.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com
 Reply below not above, like a play script.  Indent old text with "> ".
 Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable.
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RE: Unified BSD?

[Tim Larson]

I know the basic history of all the BSDs and the reasons for divergence, but 
I've always tended to think of them as different focus areas of a single 
project. The best ideas tend to get shared around, where applicable, but each 
retains its unique focus and niche within the greater whole. We don't need a 
"unified" BSD; BSD is already unified in the ways that matter. Open source and 
meritocracy see to that.

Tim
--





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Re: Unified BSD?

[Johan Beisser]

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Ignatios Souvatzis
 wrote:

> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
> userland, an eighth.

OS X has benefitted greatly from FreeBSD, Apple hiring former FreeBSD
core team members. And indirectly from OpenBSD as well, with modern
versions of OS X, 10.7+, have pf.

Cross pollination is a huge benefit to the BSD community.
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Re: Unified BSD?

[ill...@gmail.com]

On 13 November 2012 07:04, Lars Engels  wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:45:11AM +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:
>> > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four 
>> > > largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of 
>> > > each and create a Unified BSD?
>> >
>> >
>> > You'd end up creating a fifth.
>>
>> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
>> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
>> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
>> userland, an eighth.
>>
>
> MirBSD / MirOS is dead:
>
> http://www.freshbsd.org/search?project=mirbsd
>
> Last commit:  2011-08-29 23:00:00

Latest looks like 20120911 via http://www.mirbsd.org/MirOS/current/

Also, mksh (I use this on gentoo) & jupp (a fork of joe: I still use the ol
jstar for word processing) are both regularly worked upon.

In any case (getting back to the Original Troll), the various BSD
projects regularly borrow code from each other, so I hardly see the
point.

-- 
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Re: Unified BSD?

[Martin]

No offense Ignatios Souvatzis but your reference to Minix being a 7th BSD
distro is like saying FreeBSD (or any of the other major BSDs) is another
Linux because of its inter-compatibility for certain user-land components
and various shared code. Minix has a minimal amount of NetBSD code and most
of it being userland tools and package management. The actual core of Minix
is totally different to NetBSD; MINIX is a microkernel and NetBSD is a
monolithic kernel being a major difference. Mac OS X i can understand but
again the core of OSX is based of Mach 3, FreeBSD and OPENSTEP, with a lot
of modified code (more like BSD's 2nd or 3rd cousin).
Although with that i suppose it depends on how you are defining what
classifies as a BSD distribution. If your going of whether they have used
any source from BSD then your going to be hard-pressed to classify one that
isn't BSD. However, i was assuming you were going of the core of the system
(i.e. how much source if any is used in kernel space).

Which brings be back to what i was talking about in an earlier post. If you
want to make a "unified BSD", it would be easier to create a new BSD which
at the core (i.e. memory management, IPC, I/O, etc...) is based of per-say
NetBSD, i only chose NetBSD because it has what i believe is cleaner code
than the others, and is structured in a way that would make it "easier" to
modify and move components.
Sure it wouldn't be true to the roots of an actual unified BSD that is
based of 4.4BSD lite and has a mesh core of OpenBSD, FreeBSD & NetBSD, but
my point isn't about 4.4BSD lite or creating a "true unified BSD" down to
the core (where all BSD developers work on one project).
My point is about the possibility of creating a new BSD project (with
separate developers) that aims for 100% compatibility with at least
FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and maybe DragonflyBSD.

Your suggestion i would think is possible, but only by being realistic
about it. Using an already stable kernel and then modifying it where
necessary to make it compatible.

lol, that's just my 2-cents about it.

Hell the idea is more possible with the BSDs than it is with Linux. I
wouldn't even consider trying to create a unified Linux. Linux is such a
jumbled mess, that i wouldn't want to go anywhere near a project trying to
un-jumble it with a 10ft pole, as it would take about as long to un-jumble
it as it would to finish the same idea on BSD. I like Linux but if your
talking about a project/s being unified, BSD is leaps and bounds ahead of
Linux. So while Linux is doing better in terms of popularity, BSD has a far
greater potential for more than Linux, just because each project has made
such a strong base foundation and is so well organized. :D

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Ignatios Souvatzis  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:
> > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four
> largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each
> and create a Unified BSD?
> >
> >
> > You'd end up creating a fifth.
>
> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
> userland, an eighth.
>
> -is
>
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Re: Unified BSD?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-11-13 11:45, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:

On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  wrote:


Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD 
variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a 
Unified BSD?



You'd end up creating a fifth.


At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
userland, an eighth.


And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases?
(And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would 
have been called 1BSD as well...)


Johnny

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Re: Unified BSD?

[Jakub Lach]

mksh is certainly not, and I use it daily 
on FreeBSD and really like it. 

The same I could say about openntpd
from OpenBSD. 

Isn't it like it should be then?



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Re: Unified BSD?

[Ignatios Souvatzis]

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 01:04:27PM +0100, Lars Engels wrote:

> MirBSD / MirOS is dead:
> 
> http://www.freshbsd.org/search?project=mirbsd
> 
> Last commit:  2011-08-29 23:00:00

I'm no Mir* co-worker, so take this with a grain of salt. But on
general principles:

a) I question the date itself - that's the last commit to whatever
freshbsd.org watches, not necessarily the last thing the developers 
did.

(In fact, I've heard from Thorsten at FrosCon that he does definitely
not consider his project abandoned.)

b) Besides - I question the notion of "unchanging" == "dead". In
fact, as somebody who *uses* software, and who administeres computers
for others who want to *use* the software, I consider changing
software - e.g. the fortnightly changes of Firefox-Current's user
interface - a nuisance. (That's why Mozilla has their "extended
support release", currently 10.0.9.) People want to use software for
some work, not spend half of their time rewriting configuration
files or relearn key bidings or menu entry positions.

(Now, nobody being there who looks at bug reports etc... thats
something different. But you only see changes through this activity
if there really *are* bugs.)

-is
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Re: Unified BSD?

[Lars Engels]

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:45:11AM +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:
> > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  wrote:
> > 
> > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four 
> > > largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each 
> > > and create a Unified BSD?
> > 
> > 
> > You'd end up creating a fifth.
> 
> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
> userland, an eighth. 
> 

MirBSD / MirOS is dead:

http://www.freshbsd.org/search?project=mirbsd

Last commit:  2011-08-29 23:00:00


pgplE2yH2ohT0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Unified BSD?

[Joar Jegleim]

I just can't resist the urge to point to this comic strip, which an
other FreeBSD users posted regarding : "hey let's create a FreeBSD
desktop, like Ubuntu did with Unity"
http://xkcd.com/927/

-- 
--
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Homepage: http://cosmicb.no
Linkedin: http://no.linkedin.com/in/joarjegleim
fb: http://www.facebook.com/joar.jegleim
AKA: CosmicB @Freenode

--

On 12 November 2012 21:37, Robin  Björklin  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive junior
> sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the bigger
> picture and the good of the cause.
>
> Now over to the reason for my post.
>
> As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these
> days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is why
> the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux
> community have decided to split their resources into several different
> projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more
> competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof?
>
> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest
> BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and
> create a Unified BSD?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Robin Bjorklin
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Re: Unified BSD?

[Ignatios Souvatzis]

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  wrote:
> 
> > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest 
> > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and 
> > create a Unified BSD?
> 
> 
> You'd end up creating a fifth.

At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list.
Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility,
is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible
userland, an eighth. 

-is
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Re: Unified BSD?

[Joost van de Griek]

On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin  Björklin  wrote:

> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest 
> BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create 
> a Unified BSD?


You'd end up creating a fifth.

.tsooJ
-- 
The first testicular guard, the cup, was used in hockey in 1874; the first 
helmet was used in 1974. That means it only took 100 years for men to realize 
that their brain is also important.
-- 
Joost van de Griek


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