Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Genghis Khan]

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 16:26:22 +0200
d...@gmx.com wrote:

> Tick, tock.
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Opt out of PRISM http://prism-break.org/

I do not trust Eff, but they do have legitimate information, sometimes.
There is criticism on some of Eff choices at http://identi.ca/tag/prism

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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

Tick, tock.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Genghis Khan]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 20:18:15 -0400
Joe Altman  wrote:

> And FWIW, it's not the community that, AFAICT, arguing against GA.
> It's a few people in that community who, apparently, don't wish to
> use any sort of localhost mechanism to adress the issue. Again, FWIW:
> I would prefer the FBSD project did not use GA; but it does and for
> good reasons. Weblog analysis is hard. Google, with its analytics,
> does it well. The project needs that analysis.

I do not think anyone can really know if this is a vast majority of the
community or a few. Maybe most, unfortunately, are in a little fear to
express themselves and challenge GA. Maybe some, do not want to bother
arguing because of time constrains or because of other reasons. Perhaps
most who are against GA are not subscribed to this mailing-list.

I do not think it is possible to know how many do http://xkcd.com/610/


The linked comic is, in my opinion, a realisation of how political
parties being elected to parliaments the world over keep their power.

HARD: Shut up! Do not dare expressing your views! Besides, it is just
you and some few unknown others.

SOFT: It is a "wasted vote". Do make a difference with "us" (you are
not included). Enjoy (being silently depressed in your) life!

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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Brett Glass]

At 06:18 PM 6/5/2013, Joe Altman wrote:


Weblog analysis is hard. Google, with its analytics, does it
well. The project needs that analysis.


For what? To market its expensive product?

The fact is that the project does NOT need this analysis, 
especially at the cost of
visitors' privacy. It sets a horrendous bad example and shows a 
flagrant disregard

for security.

--Brett Glass 


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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

On 06/06/2013 02:18, Joe Altman wrote:

you are what you claim others are.


Which is?


And FWIW, it's not the community that, AFAICT, arguing against GA. It's
a few people in that community who, apparently, don't wish to use any
sort of localhost mechanism to adress the issue. Again, FWIW: I would
prefer the FBSD project did not use GA; but it does and for good
reasons.  Weblog analysis is hard. Google, with its analytics, does it
well. The project needs that analysis.


May I ask all commenters to first read the discussions, so that they actually 
understand what the problem is and whether the web site needs GA?

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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Joe Altman]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2013 at 08:07:46PM +0200, d...@gmx.com wrote:
> 
> 1. I was unable to find any traces of such a discussion.

Then you did not look.

> Apparently, if there was a discussion, it was held between a small,
> closed group.

Small, yes. Closed, not so much.

> People only annoy me when they point me to previous discussions --
> ones that I have participated in -- or to the announcement.

So, you are also deeptech71 at gmail.com?  If so, then you are what you
claim others are.

Why you felt compelled to offer people the opportunity to argue that you
are excessively mailing the lists by your act is not something I quite
understand, ESPECIALLY since you do, in fact, know of (having
participated in it) the discussion in question.

And FWIW, it's not the community that, AFAICT, arguing against GA. It's
a few people in that community who, apparently, don't wish to use any
sort of localhost mechanism to adress the issue. Again, FWIW: I would
prefer the FBSD project did not use GA; but it does and for good
reasons.  Weblog analysis is hard. Google, with its analytics, does it
well. The project needs that analysis.

As for localhost solutions, I accept no cookies from google and I run
Privoxy. WRT Privoxy, I'm self taught; and anyone who has a concern
about that sort of thing can do the same.

Joe
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

On 06/05/2013 16:34, John Baldwin wrote:

There was quite a lively discussion of this
before it was enabled and a summary of the reasons for using it was posted to
announce@ quite a while ago:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2012-December/001441.html


1. I was unable to find any traces of such a discussion. Apparently, if there 
was a discussion, it was held between a small, closed group.

2. After the announcement, arguments were given by the community, that
   (a) the reasons in the announcement do not warrant the use of GA, and
   (b) there are good reasons why we should not use GA.
   These arguments were simply ignored.

People only annoy me when they point me to previous discussions -- ones that I 
have participated in -- or to the announcement.

Again, the announcement is not a reply to the community's arguments against GA. 
The opposite is true.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[John Baldwin]

On Wednesday, June 05, 2013 8:24:04 am d...@gmx.com wrote:
> I am yet to receive a answer from the web master.
> 
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2013-May/006883.html

Your opinion has been noted.  There was quite a lively discussion of this 
before it was enabled and a summary of the reasons for using it was posted to 
announce@ quite a while ago:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2012-December/001441.html

-- 
John Baldwin
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

I am yet to receive a answer from the web master.

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2013-May/006883.html
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Genghis Khan]

Google and the NSA Connection (short article + 04:38 minutes video)

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Google_and_the_NSA_Connection/26300/0/38/38/Y/M.html
http://www.batr.org/negotium/052913.html (source)

Document of NSA was changed on 2013-05-08 at 15:43 (40336257 bytes)
http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/Untangling_the_Web.pdf

Scanned document. Text search is not possible. 651 pages.

On Mon, 27 May 2013 19:11:53 +0200
"Genghis Khan"  wrote:

> On Mon, 27 May 2013 18:03:05 +0200
> d...@gmx.com wrote:
> 
> > On 05/24/2013 01:04, Darren Pilgrim wrote:
> > > If you don't want to participate in GA, you can block the related
> > > javascript quite easily.
> > 
> > Irrelevant. Most users have no idea how to practically avoid GA, or
> > even worse: they do not understand the dangers in enriching a
> > terrorist company with lots of user-behavioral data.
> 
> RIGHT ON!!! I love this statement!
> 
> For the record, I send my emails to others and to mailing lists
> through Tor Proxy, to hide my IP from google, unless I know that the
> other end is using an email that is not connected with gmail server
> (by the way, the same applies to at&t, msn, yahoo, cox and the rest
> of email servers of the biggest internet providers of us and uk, but
> I do it especially because of google).
> 
> > I would not be concerned about leaking my behavioral data, if that
> > was the only thing that Google could get at, but that is not the
> > case. Google uses 's data against
> > , and that is made more and more
> > possible with each case of a website using GA.
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> > unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
> 
> 


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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Genghis Khan]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 18:03:05 +0200
d...@gmx.com wrote:

> On 05/24/2013 01:04, Darren Pilgrim wrote:
> > If you don't want to participate in GA, you can block the related
> > javascript quite easily.
> 
> Irrelevant. Most users have no idea how to practically avoid GA, or
> even worse: they do not understand the dangers in enriching a
> terrorist company with lots of user-behavioral data.

RIGHT ON!!! I love this statement!

For the record, I send my emails to others and to mailing lists through
Tor Proxy, to hide my IP from google, unless I know that the other end
is using an email that is not connected with gmail server (by the way,
the same applies to at&t, msn, yahoo, cox and the rest of email servers
of the biggest internet providers of us and uk, but I do it especially
because of google).

> I would not be concerned about leaking my behavioral data, if that
> was the only thing that Google could get at, but that is not the
> case. Google uses 's data against
> , and that is made more and more
> possible with each case of a website using GA.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

OpenBSD is an operating system that focuses on security, and the non-use of GA 
on the openbsd.org website reflects this. It has been always thought that 
security is also a key point of FreeBSD. For example, the FreeBSD developers 
also believe in full disclosures, a (package set) usage reporter tool is made 
optional and highly-anonymous to users, and so on. Such is not the case with 
the main website of FreeBSD as of recent times: it now uses GA.

The BSD license imposes only a minimal legal burden on each individual user. In 
contrast, the GPL is viral and forces users to do certain things, but those 
things generally aim at supporting humanity as a whole, not a proprietary 
company like Google.

It is still hard to believe that a website developer of freebsd.org has broken the 
previously followed design and moral principles, and that this has not yet been 
"brought back into shape" by someone with appropriate power.

Perhaps others -- notably, the OpenBSD people and the FSF -- would like to hear 
about what direction FreeBSD is now going in.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

On 05/24/2013 01:04, Darren Pilgrim wrote:

If you don't want to participate in GA, you can block the related javascript 
quite easily.


Irrelevant. Most users have no idea how to practically avoid GA, or even worse: 
they do not understand the dangers in enriching a terrorist company with lots 
of user-behavioral data.

I would not be concerned about leaking my behavioral data, if that was the only thing that 
Google could get at, but that is not the case. Google uses 
's data against , 
and that is made more and more possible with each case of a website using GA.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Genghis Khan]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:15:32 +0930
Mike Trewartha  wrote:

> This has already been discussed:
> 
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2012-December/006809.html

I firmly agree with Brett Glass.


Alternatives

http://piwik.org/
http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/369515-weekend-project-piwik-supercharges-site-analytics-with-open-source

Also http://www.incapsula.com/ which I have found at techbase.kde.org,
but I don't see it there, currently, so maybe this is not an
appropriate one.


Privoxy
---
Privoxy Filter for Google Analytics (November 27th 2005)
http://daniel.hahler.de/privoxy-filter-for-google-analytics

Here is what I do with Privoxy:
{+block{No Jungle!}}
8.8.8.8
74.125.79.104
74.125.79.147
74.125.79.99
.appspot.com/
#.blogger./
.blogger.com/navbar\.g
#.blogspot./
.doubleclick.net/
.feedburner.*/
.feedburner.google./
.feedproxy.google./
.ggpht./
#.goo.gl/
.google.
.google.com/(calendar|reader)
#.google.com/reader/
.google-analytics./
.googleadservices./
#.googleapis./
.googlesyndication./
.googletagservices./
.googleusercontent./
.gstatic.com/
.gvt0./


{ +redirect{s@http://@http://longurl.org/expand?url=@} }
...
.goo.gl/
...

> On 24/05/2013, at 2:15 AM, d...@gmx.com wrote:
> 
> > On 05/23/2013 10:55, Jayton Garnett wrote:
> >> Does it really matter?
> > 
> > Yes, but you knew that.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[pete wright]

On May 23, 2013 6:04 PM, "Brett Glass"  wrote:
>
> At 02:55 AM 5/23/2013, Jayton Garnett wrote:
>
>> Does it really matter?
>
>
> Yes. A lot. FreeBSD should not facilitate violations of privacy or
similar security risks.
>

So I assume you are working on and/or sponsoring code and infrastructure
that matches GA?

Otherwise can we please put this bike shed to rest.

-pete
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Brett Glass]

At 02:55 AM 5/23/2013, Jayton Garnett wrote:


Does it really matter?


Yes. A lot. FreeBSD should not facilitate violations of privacy or 
similar security risks.


--Brett Glass

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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

On 05/23/2013 22:45, Mike Trewartha wrote:

This has already been discussed:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2012-December/006809.html


Do you read?

On 05/23/2013 10:51, d...@gmx.com wrote:

Several months ago, the FreeBSD web master decided [...], without giving any 
response or respect to critics and concerns raised by the user community


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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Mike Trewartha]

This has already been discussed:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2012-December/006809.html

On 24/05/2013, at 2:15 AM, d...@gmx.com wrote:

> On 05/23/2013 10:55, Jayton Garnett wrote:
>> Does it really matter?
> 
> Yes, but you knew that.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[dt71]

On 05/23/2013 10:55, Jayton Garnett wrote:

Does it really matter?


Yes, but you knew that.
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Re: "injunction" on the use of GA

[Jayton Garnett]

Does it really matter?
On 23 May 2013 09:51,  wrote:

> Several months ago, the FreeBSD web master decided to cover the main
> FreeBSD web site with Google Analytics, without giving any response or
> respect to critics and concerns raised by the user community, such as
> questioned benefits, public moral issues and noted alternatives. Now, I
> call for an "injunction" for the FreeBSD web master to explain, thoroughly:
>
> What has so far been gained through the use of GA?
> Of these, which ones could not have been achieved otherwise, such as with
> a different tool?
> Also of these, which ones are significant, and why?
> What warrants the continued application of GA?
>
> I hope to see a compelling argument that justifies the web master's silent
> negligence several months ago, or admittance and relevant acts otherwise.
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