Re: shells/bash port, add a knob which symlinks to /bin/bash ?
Right, well here is another one:
The missing symlink for /etc/ssl/cert.pem
There is no reason it should not be in
${prefix}/etc/ssl/cert.pem
Except that the folder etc/ssl/ only exists in base.
Without this symlink, then SSL certs aren't found by the 'fetch'
command and many significant websites these days can't work without
SSL. For example github.com (there are others).
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Bryan Drewery bdrew...@freebsd.org wrote:
There's no reason for bash (and perl) to be exceptions to the 24000
other ports that install to /usr/local/bin. I can think of dozens of
other ports that will fall into the same arguments being made here, but
it does not mean it is the right thing for FreeBSD.
If you want to install the symlink on your system feel free to do it. I
install a static bash to /bin/bash on mine and only because I prefer
bash shell and want it in / for single-user mode. That's my personal
choice though.
The proper fix is to fix scripts to be portable and use #! /usr/bin/env
bash rather than /bin/bash.
Technically, I agree with you that people should write portable shell
scripts,
and use #!/usr/bin/env bash rather than #!/bin/bash.
Pushing that behavior upstream is not always practical these days, where
FreeBSD is in the minority, while Linux and MacOS X are in the vast
majority of where
people are doing development and learning how to write shell scripts these
days.
The /bin/bash thing is relatively minor, but I brought it up, because I see
it so much.
I've seen it in the jobs that I've worked at. I've also seen it when
dealing with Google
Summer of Code students. I've seen it in blogs mentioned when Linux users
evaluate FreeBSD.
I've seen it when people design appliances based on FreeBSD, but want the
device to be
familiar enough for Linux-y devops people to interact with it.
If there are minor things that we can do in FreeBSD to improve the
out-of-box experience
of FreeBSD to new users who may be used to Linux or MacOS X, that would be
great.
Telling people to change their shell scripts, or manually create symlinks
to /bin/bash is doable,
but why not have something in the system do this automatically, so that the
average end-user does
not even have to think about it?
If adding an optional knob to the bash port which is OFF by default to do
this is a no-go,
would having an optional port like what Brooks Davis mentioned be allowed
which creates
the symlink and updates /etc/shells?
--
Craig
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Re: HOWTO articles for migrating from Linux to FreeBSD, especially for pkg?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote: Hi, I attend a lot of different Meetup groups in the San Francisco Bay Area / Silicon Valley. What I am seeing is the following usage pattern for new developers, especially for web apps and cloud applications. (1) On their desktop/laptop, they will generally be using a Mac running OS X. This is their desktop Unix environment. This seems to be true of almost 90% of the people that I meet. The 10% of people who run a PC laptop, will mostly be running Windows. Very few seem to run Linux on their laptops, but if they do, it will likely be Ubuntu Linux. (2) For their deployed application, generally they will deploy to a Linux environment on a server. These days, the server will very likely be in a cloud environment: Amazon, Rackspace, Heroku. For (1), encouraging people to move away from a Mac to FreeBSD for their desktop environment is a tough sell. Apple is a multi-billion dollar company, and they make beautiful hardware, and software with a fantastic end-user experience. The PC-BSD project is fighting the good fight in terms of making a usable FreeBSD desktop, but its a touch battle to fight. For (2), encouraging people to move away from Linux to FreeBSD on the server, may be something where we can get more wins. I think we can do this by having more HOWTO articles on the FreeBSD web page that explain the following: (1) We need a HOWTO article that explains for each command using apt or yum for installing packages, how can I do the same thing using pkg. Even if we have a web page with a table, contrasting the apt/yum commands, and pkg commands, that would be super useful. A lot of folks have moved away from FreeBSD, purely because they are sick of pkg_add. We need to explain to folks that we have something better, that is quite competitive to apt/yum, and it is easy to use. (2) We need a HOWTO article that explains how to set up a FreeBSD environment with some of the major cloud providers, i.e. Amazon, Rackspace, Microsoft Azure, etc. Do we have such articles today, or is anybody working on something like that? I haven't such specific articles. However I did create a project which lets people more easily install and 'try out' FreeBSD. It runs ontop of either FreeNAS, pfSense or NAS4Free. The idea is that because you can boot those distress off of a USB stick, (it's like a liveCD). However you can then install the full FreeBSD generic onto any suitably-formatted attached hard disk. (including PKGNG and ports tree). None of my documentation is aimed specifically at linux - FreeBSD. However I can say that it's utterly true (if you have Mac OS X). The desktop experience is definately nicer (much less niggly / annoying problems). And on Macs we have brew install… which is allright. But you can't use Macs as effectively for server stuff. It doesn't really feel right for that purpose. And homebrew is like ports or gentoo (compiles everything, no binary packages). For me, the FreeBSD is what I decide to for server (more than linux) *not just only* for PKGNG. We are glad that is here now. But also (very important). If FreeBSD jails. Which isn't as-good-as, but often superior to such linux equivalent (if any). In terms of both security, and efficiency. Here you can see my FreeBSD jails HowTo: http://dreamcat4.github.io/finch/jails-how-to/ Which is as simple as I could ever be able to make it. Sorry I don't have any other ideas in regards to how to address the overwhelming popularity of Linux over FreeBSD. It often isn't justified. However in some ways linux is like windows now. For example with overwhelming hardware support (that sometimes is not as good on FreeBSD). And Linux is more success on embedded because it can run on many different kinds of CPUs. Wheras FreeBSD isn't very much support for embedded CPU (unless they happen to be X86). I get the (maybe not justified) impression that even ARM isn't so well supported on FreeBSD. Some things you can't change with just only a better How-To. Even if FreeBSD is super-great / rocks so well now. I think if we had these two HOWTO articles today, and we could aggressively point people at them, this would be a huge win for expanding the number of people who try out FreeBSD for modern server applications. -- Craig ___ freebsd-po...@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: HOWTO articles for migrating from Linux to FreeBSD, especially for pkg?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Baptiste Daroussin b...@freebsd.org
wrote:
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 10:21:17PM +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Navdeep Parhar npar...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 07/17/14 13:12, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 17 July 2014 13:03, Alberto Mijares amijar...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org
wrote:
Hi!
3) The binary packages need to work out of the box
4) .. which means, when you do things like pkg install apache, it
can't just be installed and not be enabled, because that's a bit
of a
problem;
No. Please NEVER do that! The user must be able to edit the files
and
start the service by himself.
Cool, so what's the single line command needed to type in to start a
given package service?
Aren't sysrc(8) and service(8) for this kind of stuff?
They sure are.
Well, pkg install $service ; sysrc ${service}_enable=YES would do.
Although some services have different names than the packge, which is
sort
of annoying.
Maybe service needs to be extended (seriously sysrc
${service}_enable=YES is
not user friendly) we have service -l that list the services, maybe a
service
This might be a pretty good idea. (barring technical obstacles).
${service} on that create /etc/rc.conf.d/${service} with
${service}_enable=YES
in it and service ${service} off to remove it
I think we should hope for an API / service interface that can try to avoid
(as much as it can) to require specifically rc.conf file and no other
possible way. Because FreeBSD may replace the current rc.d system in future
with something else better / next generation. For example the on-going
openlaunchd project. That question is more about when rather than if.
maybe service -l could also be extended to show the current status (maybe
with a
-v switch)
but for sure having the service off by default is a good idea :)
It wouldn't hurt very much to have some optional flag to the pkg install
command that allowed a user to do in 1 command. Then the global
configuration of services being installed off by default would remain as
always.
Yet allowing that little extra switch would achieve the stated goal. And
help towards FreeBSD being a slightly more polished OS that is more
user-friendly. Since, you know do the math. It is 1 fewer total commands to
type in. Such savings all adds up. If enough such minor improvement can
be made all across the board. Then it makes a difference.
regards,
Bapt
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