Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Fri, 7 Jul 2000, Rahul Dhesi wrote: > Nobody has come up with any any real reason why the user should not at a > glance be able to tell which boot-time services failed and which ones > succeeded. - The existing system does this already - Masking error messages is Evil(tm) Doug White| FreeBSD: The Power to Serve [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
I recently wrote:
>It's not the green that's important, it's the 'OK'. The way Redhat
>Linux boots, you can see at a glance which start-up commands failed and
>which ones succeeded. The way FreeBSD boots, it's all one big blur.
>Also, in the Linux scheme, there is a standard mechanism to keep track
>of which boot-time service has already been started, and any accidental
>re-invocation of the script (without an intervening 'stop') will be
>detected and rejected. I personally find the 'chkconfig' command to be
>very convenient to enable, disable, and list boot-time services, without
>having to manually rename xxx.sh to xxx.sh.DISABLED and back.
I am a bit disappointed by some of the responses I saw. Many of them
exhibit the NIH ("not invented here") syndrome. Some are just
argumentative with no useful content. Some make invalid assumptions.
Some argue that the idea should be rejected just because some specific
implementation might be flawed.
Nobody has come up with any any real reason why the user should not at a
glance be able to tell which boot-time services failed and which ones
succeeded.
--
Rahul
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Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Fri, 7 Jul 2000, Garrett Wollman wrote: ><<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > >> Sounds like a good enough reason to me to port the newer NetBSD LFS code >> to FreeBSD. > >Or, even better, for someone to implement background fsck for soft >updates. Yes, that too would be wonderful. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
< said: > Sounds like a good enough reason to me to port the newer NetBSD LFS code > to FreeBSD. Or, even better, for someone to implement background fsck for soft updates. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same [EMAIL PROTECTED] | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, Jul 06, 2000 at 06:53:49PM -0700, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Walter Campbe > ll writes: > > > > HP/UX does something like this. I find it rather useful, but that may be > > > > because I have boxes that take almost an hour to boot > > > > > > An hour to boot? Boy... the only time I ever saw a machine take an hour to > > > boot (which does not include the POST/memory check/BIOS screen) was a > > > 486SX/33 with 24MB of RAM running Windows NT 3.51 SP3. Of course it was > > > running off of a 5 1/4" 400MB SCSI hard drive too! > > > > Try a Solaris 2.6 machine fsck'ing an array of 14 9.1 giggers > > An Alpha my team manages with 1 TB of images on UFS takes 4 hours to > fsck. At work I've watched some of our BSD/OS 4.0.1 servers go down hard while qmail had its queue totaly backed up. And when the ufs (running softupdates) 500MB /var got to fsck'ing it could take over 8 hours. (and yes, we know something was not right there, the problem has since been solved for the most part) Not fun. -- --Travis To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote: >An Alpha my team manages with 1 TB of images on UFS takes 4 hours to >fsck. Sounds like a good enough reason to me to port the newer NetBSD LFS code to FreeBSD. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
--- Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > An Alpha my team manages with 1 TB of images on UFS takes 4 hours to > fsck. > Now that's a bit of thrashing, eh? Jordan, or anyone else who might know.. How long does it take "our" beast (ftp.freebsd.org) to bring up 400+ GB of RAID? -Richard __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Walter Campbe ll writes: > > > HP/UX does something like this. I find it rather useful, but that may be > > > because I have boxes that take almost an hour to boot > > > > An hour to boot? Boy... the only time I ever saw a machine take an hour to > > boot (which does not include the POST/memory check/BIOS screen) was a > > 486SX/33 with 24MB of RAM running Windows NT 3.51 SP3. Of course it was > > running off of a 5 1/4" 400MB SCSI hard drive too! > > Try a Solaris 2.6 machine fsck'ing an array of 14 9.1 giggers An Alpha my team manages with 1 TB of images on UFS takes 4 hours to fsck. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Team Leader, Sun/DEC Team Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Open Systems Group, ITSD, ISTA Province of BC To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
Jonathan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Quickie question:
[snip]
> To my (limited) understanding of this subject, it's not going to make hour
> long boot-ups. It may increase shutdown time to do things, but, sometimes
> you need to properly shut things down. If that were not the case, one
> could flip the power switch instead of typing shutdown..
what about reimplementing a fast{boot|halt} which don't runs thoses scripts
a shutdown and don't runs fsck at bootup ?
Cyrille.
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Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
Jonathan Smith writes: > I, for one, like the functionality, and thought it kinda already worked > that way (or maybe I _made_ it work that way on my machines, cn't > remember). I would like solid facts, rather than a religious/exagerated > discussion. I agree. I first ran into this on solaris. I *like* being able to shut down subsystems in a consistent manner. This makes every bit as much sense as having "make deinstall" work in the ports tree.
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Rahul Dhesi wrote: > Linh Pham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :) > >> > >> j/k > > >I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in > >that direction. > > It's not the green that's important, it's the 'OK'. The way Redhat > Linux boots, you can see at a glance which start-up commands failed and > which ones succeeded. The way FreeBSD boots, it's all one big blur. But guess what, the error messages are eaten. I've had times where errors were not redirected into the log so you have phantom errors. Plus I've had erroneous 'OK' conditions on things that were actually broken (eg missing ethernet interfaces). The current way spews the error all over, but it's plainly obvious what's broken and why. Doug White| FreeBSD: The Power to Serve [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
How bout a booting a SparcStation running Solaris 2.6 off a 1x CDROM? When it finally got done, I had to sit and remind myself what was wrong with it. -Richard --- Walter Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > HP/UX does something like this. I find it rather useful, but that may be > > > because I have boxes that take almost an hour to boot > > > > An hour to boot? Boy... the only time I ever saw a machine take an hour to > > boot (which does not include the POST/memory check/BIOS screen) was a > > 486SX/33 with 24MB of RAM running Windows NT 3.51 SP3. Of course it was > > running off of a 5 1/4" 400MB SCSI hard drive too! > > Try a Solaris 2.6 machine fsck'ing an array of 14 9.1 giggers > > Longest I've ever seen a BSD box boot was about 10-15 minutes though, > including fsck'ing 4 drives > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, Jul 06, 2000, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > And its actually very useful IMHO. Thats what rc.conf is for though, right? > > enable_pkg_apache="YES" > enable_pkg_qmail="YES" > enable_pkg_mysql="YES" > > and so on .. ? Before people start going "huh?" .. that was an idea, not an outline as to what happens today. :-P Adrian -- Adrian ChaddBuild a man a fire, and he's warm for the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>rest of the evening. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, Jul 06, 2000, Rahul Dhesi wrote: > Linh Pham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :) > >> > >> j/k > > >I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in > >that direction. > > It's not the green that's important, it's the 'OK'. The way Redhat > Linux boots, you can see at a glance which start-up commands failed and > which ones succeeded. The way FreeBSD boots, it's all one big blur. > > Also, in the Linux scheme, there is a standard mechanism to keep track > of which boot-time service has already been started, and any accidental > re-invocation of the script (without an intervening 'stop') will be > detected and rejected. I personally find the 'chkconfig' command to be > very convenient to enable, disable, and list boot-time services, without > having to manually rename xxx.sh to xxx.sh.DISABLED and back. Well, chkconfig isn't a linux thing: replicate 1% uname -a IRIX replicate 6.5 05190003 IP22 replicate 2% which chkconfig /sbin/chkconfig replicate 3% And its actually very useful IMHO. Thats what rc.conf is for though, right? enable_pkg_apache="YES" enable_pkg_qmail="YES" enable_pkg_mysql="YES" and so on .. ? Adrian -- Adrian ChaddBuild a man a fire, and he's warm for the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>rest of the evening. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
We have gone to some pains in the past to make the rc.d scripts silent. Either work or fail silently. if [ -x ... ]; do ... done Now, with the addition of the start/stop, there is a message output if the argument is not 'start' or 'stop'. The default should be 'start'. These scripts are frequently used to restart or redo things. And, continue to exit silently in all cases. tomdean To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
Rahul Dhesi wrote: > > >> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :) > > >I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in > >that direction. > > It's not the green that's important, it's the 'OK'. The way Redhat > Linux boots, you can see at a glance which start-up commands failed and > which ones succeeded. The way FreeBSD boots, it's all one big blur. I don't like the Linux/HP-UX/whatever way simply because it's non-unix in the sense that normally output is generated only in case of failure or in exceptional conditions. It's "telling" me things I don't want to "hear". The same applies to having "N/A" or "FAIL" emitted for services that aren't enabled/configured (in which case printing "FAIL" is plain wrong). > Also, in the Linux scheme, there is a standard mechanism to keep track > of which boot-time service has already been started, and any accidental > re-invocation of the script (without an intervening 'stop') will be > detected and rejected. Which means that if the daemon is down and the script doesn't know about it, you have to remove pid files and whatnot to use the script again to get the daemon running, right? > I personally find the 'chkconfig' command to be > very convenient to enable, disable, and list boot-time services, without > having to manually rename xxx.sh to xxx.sh.DISABLED and back. You mean the irritating pop-up that asks you questions everytime the bloody machine boots? :-) -- Marcel Moolenaar mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: (408) 447-4222 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
Linh Pham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :) >> >> j/k >I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in >that direction. It's not the green that's important, it's the 'OK'. The way Redhat Linux boots, you can see at a glance which start-up commands failed and which ones succeeded. The way FreeBSD boots, it's all one big blur. Also, in the Linux scheme, there is a standard mechanism to keep track of which boot-time service has already been started, and any accidental re-invocation of the script (without an intervening 'stop') will be detected and rejected. I personally find the 'chkconfig' command to be very convenient to enable, disable, and list boot-time services, without having to manually rename xxx.sh to xxx.sh.DISABLED and back. -- Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
Thomas Gellekum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>/etc/rc.shutdown in -current has been changed to call the scripts in
>${local_startup} with the `stop' option. This allows packages like
>databases to call their own shutdown methods and clean up after
>themselves
This will make it a bit harder to quickly add a boot-time start-up
script. If not done right, the start-up script will be called twice,
and will try to start the program each time, if it doesn't recognize the
'stop' argument. Not upward compatible and possibly harmful to some
software.
Better would be to put compatible scripts in a new directory.
rc.d : invoked without arguments only when system boots
rc.e : invoked with 'start' or 'stop'
argument, when system boots or shuts down
Alternatively a new suffix could be used.
.sh : invoked without arguments only when system boots
.nsh : invoked with 'start' or 'stop' argument,
when system boots or shuts down
Alternatively (less upward compatible) legacy scripts could be
given a different suffix. Then just a rename would make a script
compatible, without having to rewrite it to recognize 'start'
and 'stop' arguments.
.osh : invoked without arguments only when system boots
.sh : invoked with 'start' or 'stop' argument,
when system boots or shuts down
Other upward-compatible solutions are probably possible.
Oh, also, the order in which scripts are called ought ideally
be to be reversed at shutdown time.
--
Rahul
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Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:53:09PM -0400, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Chris D. Faulhaber wrote: > > >Many Linux distributions do this too. It seems about as useful as a car's > >idiot light(s)... IMO, I would prefer to see useful information during > >boot than that eye-candy. > > I'd prefer to buy a box of blinkenlights to put in a spare 5.25" bay and > let the dmesg on boot reflect only what I need to know as an admin when > the box comes up. We had that once. It's called a PDP/11 -- Wilko Bulte http://www.freebsd.org "Do, or do not. There is no try" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nlfug.nl Yoda - The Empire Strikes Back To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
Quickie question:
By implementing the 'start' and 'stop' in the local scripts, how much
should one _expect_ their systems bootup and slow down times to take?
I'm hearing whines of being to linux like, to sysv'ish and some likely
valid complaints on startup/shutdown time.
I, for one, like the functionality, and thought it kinda already worked
that way (or maybe I _made_ it work that way on my machines, cn't
remember). I would like solid facts, rather than a religious/exagerated
discussion.
To my (limited) understanding of this subject, it's not going to make hour
long boot-ups. It may increase shutdown time to do things, but, sometimes
you need to properly shut things down. If that were not the case, one
could flip the power switch instead of typing shutdown..
--
Close your eyes. Now forget what you see. What do you feel? --
My heart. -- Come here. -- Your heart. -- See? We're exactly the same.
Jon Smith -- Senior Math Major @ Purdue
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Dan Nelson wrote:
> In the last episode (Jul 06), Thomas Gellekum said:
> > sorry for the late notice, I forgot to mail this yesterday.
> >
> > /etc/rc.shutdown in -current has been changed to call the scripts in
> > ${local_startup} with the `stop' option. This allows packages like
> > databases to call their own shutdown methods and clean up after
> > themselves. All the ports have been changed accordingly. If you still
> > have old startup scripts lying around in /usr/{local,X11R6}/etc/rc.d
> > you should upgrade these ASAP.
>
> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :)
>
> j/k
>
> --
> Dan Nelson
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
>
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Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Chris D. Faulhaber wrote: >Many Linux distributions do this too. It seems about as useful as a car's >idiot light(s)... IMO, I would prefer to see useful information during >boot than that eye-candy. I'd prefer to buy a box of blinkenlights to put in a spare 5.25" bay and let the dmesg on boot reflect only what I need to know as an admin when the box comes up. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
> > HP/UX does something like this. I find it rather useful, but that may be > > because I have boxes that take almost an hour to boot > > An hour to boot? Boy... the only time I ever saw a machine take an hour to > boot (which does not include the POST/memory check/BIOS screen) was a > 486SX/33 with 24MB of RAM running Windows NT 3.51 SP3. Of course it was > running off of a 5 1/4" 400MB SCSI hard drive too! Try a Solaris 2.6 machine fsck'ing an array of 14 9.1 giggers Longest I've ever seen a BSD box boot was about 10-15 minutes though, including fsck'ing 4 drives To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Linh Pham wrote: > > :> > :> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :) > :> > :> j/k > : > :I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in > :that direction. > > > HP/UX does something like this. I find it rather useful, but that may be > because I have boxes that take almost an hour to boot > Many Linux distributions do this too. It seems about as useful as a car's idiot light(s)... IMO, I would prefer to see useful information during boot than that eye-candy. - Chris D. Faulhaber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD: The Power To Serve - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Linh Pham wrote: > > :> > :> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :) > :> > :> j/k > : > :I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in > :that direction. > > > HP/UX does something like this. I find it rather useful, but that may be > because I have boxes that take almost an hour to boot An hour to boot? Boy... the only time I ever saw a machine take an hour to boot (which does not include the POST/memory check/BIOS screen) was a 486SX/33 with 24MB of RAM running Windows NT 3.51 SP3. Of course it was running off of a 5 1/4" 400MB SCSI hard drive too! > > > David > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Linh Pham wrote: :> :> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :) :> :> j/k : :I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in :that direction. HP/UX does something like this. I find it rather useful, but that may be because I have boxes that take almost an hour to boot David To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
> In the last episode (Jul 06), Thomas Gellekum said:
> > sorry for the late notice, I forgot to mail this yesterday.
> >
> > /etc/rc.shutdown in -current has been changed to call the scripts in
> > ${local_startup} with the `stop' option. This allows packages like
> > databases to call their own shutdown methods and clean up after
> > themselves. All the ports have been changed accordingly. If you still
> > have old startup scripts lying around in /usr/{local,X11R6}/etc/rc.d
> > you should upgrade these ASAP.
>
> Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :)
>
> j/k
I hope you are joking... LOL... We don't want Linux emulation to go in
that direction.
>
> --
> Dan Nelson
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
In the last episode (Jul 06), Thomas Gellekum said:
> sorry for the late notice, I forgot to mail this yesterday.
>
> /etc/rc.shutdown in -current has been changed to call the scripts in
> ${local_startup} with the `stop' option. This allows packages like
> databases to call their own shutdown methods and clean up after
> themselves. All the ports have been changed accordingly. If you still
> have old startup scripts lying around in /usr/{local,X11R6}/etc/rc.d
> you should upgrade these ASAP.
Can we have little green "[ OK ]"s as well? :)
j/k
--
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
Moin,
sorry for the late notice, I forgot to mail this yesterday.
/etc/rc.shutdown in -current has been changed to call the scripts in
${local_startup} with the `stop' option. This allows packages like
databases to call their own shutdown methods and clean up after
themselves. All the ports have been changed accordingly. If you still
have old startup scripts lying around in /usr/{local,X11R6}/etc/rc.d
you should upgrade these ASAP.
Basically, the new scripts look like this:
,
| case "$1" in
| start)
| # startup code here
| ;;
| stop)
| # shutdown code here
| ;;
| *)
| echo "Usage: `basename $0` {start|stop}" >&2
| exit 64
| ;;
| esac
| exit 0
`
-stable users: I intend to merge and activate this change shortly
before the code freeze for the 4.1 release, which is July 20th, if I'm
not mistaken.
tg
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