Keyboard troubles
Why does it seem like I'm posting a lot of messages about keyboards, today? :-) I seem to remember hearing a similar problem a month or two ago, and do not remember if it was resolved. I couldn't remember enough about it to find it in the list archives. In any case, I at least want to say "me too". On my -current system, after rebooting, the keyboard was in a funny state (all 4 LEDs were turned on. My keyboard also has an internal click mechanism, which was no longer functional) I plugged the keyboard into another machine at that point, and it reset itself and worked fine on that machine. Plugging it back into the -current box, however, produced the same results as before. Fearing incompatibility, I dug out an old AT keyboard and plugged it in. No LEDs lit, and also no response from keypresses (including the obvious escape characters). The machine didn't hang... console message were still being displayed. I ended up rebooting the thing remotely, and after that, the keyboard functioned normally. If somebody can tell me what else to check, I can try and provide a few mroe details. -- Ryan Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Keyboard troubles
On my -current system, after rebooting, the keyboard was in a funny state (all 4 LEDs were turned on. My keyboard also has an internal click mechanism, which was no longer functional) I plugged the keyboard into another machine at that point, and it reset itself and worked fine on that machine. Plugging it back into the -current box, however, produced the same results as before. Fearing incompatibility, I dug out an old AT keyboard and plugged it in. No LEDs lit, and also no response from keypresses (including the obvious escape characters). The machine didn't hang... console message were still being displayed. I ended up rebooting the thing remotely, and after that, the keyboard functioned normally. If somebody can tell me what else to check, I can try and provide a few mroe details. It sounds like the keyboard interface of your motherboard has somewhat become flaky; it may even be broken. It is NOT recommended that you attach or detach the keyboard while the power is on. The keyboard interface of the PC motherboard is not designed for hot-plugging/unplugging. It is too easy to fry the keyboard interface and/or controller by doing so. Even if the keyboard interface survives hot-plugging, there is no assurance that the keyboard and the keyboard controller on the motherboard can communicate properly after hot-plugging; they are simply not designed to cope with such situation. I personally know a couple of people who broke their motherboard this way. Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Keyboard troubles
Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote to Ryan Thompson: It sounds like the keyboard interface of your motherboard has somewhat become flaky; it may even be broken. It is NOT recommended that you attach or detach the keyboard while the power is on. The keyboard interface of the PC motherboard is not designed for hot-plugging/unplugging. It is too easy to fry the keyboard interface and/or controller by doing so. I don't make a habit of keyboard swapping, and I HAVE experienced some minor glitches before (such as weird scan codes being sent, or the state of caps lock changing). In any case, though, a keyboard reset or even just a few key presses would fix. In the last 10 years, I have NEVER had to reboot a system because they keyboard wasn't responding. Even if the keyboard interface survives hot-plugging, there is no assurance that the keyboard and the keyboard controller on the motherboard can communicate properly after hot-plugging; they are simply not designed to cope with such situation. I personally know a couple of people who broke their motherboard this way. Bummer for them.. Really, though, I would rather fry a $200 motherboard than my $500CDN keyboard (my fingers have developed expensive tastes). :-) None of my motherboard documentation warns agains swapping keyboards, either. In any case, I never had problems swapping keyboards between prior FreeBSD releases, other UNIX platforms, Windows machines, DOS machines. Hell, even my old Nintendo never complained if you plugged in a different controller while it was powered on. :-) I was just wondering if something had been done to 4.0 that didn't handle this situation like previous releases. Thanks for the info. When I have another $500 burning a hole in my checkbook, I will probably order another keyboard, just so I have another one, if nothing else. :-) - Ryan -- Ryan Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Keyboard troubles
I don't make a habit of keyboard swapping, and I HAVE experienced some minor glitches before (such as weird scan codes being sent, or the state of caps lock changing). You have been lucky that you didn't broke the motherboard when swapping the keyboard. The fact that you only had minor problems does not mean the rest of the world should be Ok too. In any case, though, a keyboard reset or even just a few key presses would fix. In the last 10 years, I have NEVER had to reboot a system because they keyboard wasn't responding. Well, as I wrote before, I suspect that the keyboard interface of your motherboard is becoming flaky. This is a hardware problem, rather than software. It is not certainly the FreeBSD boot loader problem as it relies on the BIOS to detect the presense of the keyboard. Even if the keyboard interface survives hot-plugging, there is no assurance that the keyboard and the keyboard controller on the motherboard can communicate properly after hot-plugging; they are simply not designed to cope with such situation. I personally know a couple of people who broke their motherboard this way. Bummer for them.. Really, though, I would rather fry a $200 motherboard than my $500CDN keyboard (my fingers have developed expensive tastes). :-) None of my motherboard documentation warns agains swapping keyboards, either. That doens't mean the motherboard manufacturer recommend keyboard swapping :-) I certainly don't like the idea that we encourage users something which may break their motherboard. I will tell more. Many motherboard, if not all, has a small fuse around the keyboard connector. This fuse will burn if large current runs in the keyboard interface. This may happen when you hot-plug/unplug the keyboard. The trouble is that this fuse cannot be easily replaced on many motherboard. Some old motherboards have a socketed fuse, so it's not hard to replace it (but it is still a hassle for non-engineering type folks). Many recent motherboard has the fuse SOLDERED on the motherboard, and the fuse itself is a small chip. This makes it hard for us to identify the fuse and repair it when it goes off. It is certainly unreasonable to assume any user can fix it himself. In any case, I never had problems swapping keyboards between prior FreeBSD releases, other UNIX platforms, Windows machines, DOS machines. Hell, even my old Nintendo never complained if you plugged in a different controller while it was powered on. :-) I was just wondering if something had been done to 4.0 that didn't handle this situation like previous releases. Nothing changed in the 4.0 boot loader. # Other UNIX boxes and the Nintendo game console are not relevant here. # They use different keyboard interface circuit. Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Keyboard troubles
Ryan Thompson wrote: Thanks for the info. When I have another $500 burning a hole in my checkbook, I will probably order another keyboard, just so I have another one, if nothing else. :-) Why not just get a decent monitor/keyboard switch? Belkin makes a nice 4-port in the $200 range that makes your motherboard think there's a keyboard attached even if you are not currently switched onto the system. Just a thought ... and it's a lot cheaper than more convenient that swapping your $500 keyboards (which must be _really_ impressive BTW :). -Brian -- Brian Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] SAS Institute Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Keyboard troubles
Brian Dean wrote to Ryan Thompson: Ryan Thompson wrote: Thanks for the info. When I have another $500 burning a hole in my checkbook, I will probably order another keyboard, just so I have another one, if nothing else. :-) Why not just get a decent monitor/keyboard switch? Belkin makes a nice 4-port in the $200 range that makes your motherboard think there's a keyboard attached even if you are not currently switched onto the system. I have something quite similar.. Still, seems like some individuals remain adamantly opposed to the idea of keyboard swapping, however careful one is. :-) Just a thought ... and it's a lot cheaper than more convenient that swapping your $500 keyboards (which must be _really_ impressive BTW :). They are... A small electronics firm in Saskatchewan was nice enough to help me design and manufacture something to fit my needs. (They even let me play with their expensive CAD tools to design the hardware key repeat :-). Actually, they gave me a really good price, considering their costs. I programmed it with a custom key layout (actually, something very close to Dvorak), but some key positions are different, and I've even got a few extra keys that I've wired macros to. I used to nicely exceed 100WPM on a $20 QWERTY keyboard. My QWERTY speed, understandably, has dropped to ~80, while my customized Dvorak speed jumped to about 110 sustained. -- Ryan Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Keyboard troubles
Why not just get a decent monitor/keyboard switch? Belkin makes a nice 4-port in the $200 range that makes your motherboard think there's a keyboard attached even if you are not currently switched onto the system. I have something quite similar.. Still, seems like some individuals remain adamantly opposed to the idea of keyboard swapping, however careful one is. :-) For the record,... I never said that I was against using console switch products. (They are designed to be safe. If it causes the problem, we can categorically say that it is the manufacturer's fault.) I am against hot-plugging and swapping the keyboard. You may be careful and you know the risk. But, others may not. I don't like to spread the false impression that the PC keyboard interface is designed for hot-plugging/unplugging, and will repeat (or even shout :-) as many times as necessary, "It is not recommended to attach or detach the PC keyboard while the power is on". If you want to hot-plug the keyboard, do it at your own risk. But, please, please, please do not advice other users that it is a safe thing to do; it simply is not. Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
