Need ALSA [was: Re: MIDI on SB Live! ?]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, just out of curiosity: Is someone working in MIDI support for Creative EMU10K1 based sound cards (aka Soundblaster Live!) ? Regards, Julian Stecklina Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. ALSA has been sponsored by SuSE for the benefit of Linux, and there's no reason we can't pull together our resources to do the same for our OS. I'm sure someone will step forward to do the port if we have the cash for them to comfortably sit in front of their computer until the port is complete. I'd certainly be more than willing to throw some money into a paypal account or whatever, and I think there are others who would too. OSS is so 20th century, lets get FreeBSD into 21st century sound architecture design. :-) If you're a developer seriously interested in this, lets talk. So much of FreeBSD development is sponsored by Universities and whatnot that we take it for granted. When stuff like ALSA doesn't get ported right away, I feel we need to realize our responsibility to contribute to the project as well. Sincerely, Pete... To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: Need ALSA [was: Re: MIDI on SB Live! ?]
Hello, Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ Quote from this page: Known bugs - MIDI on SB live drive not working properly. Seems MIDI is not a great priority anymore. But I would certainly greet a new sound architecture. Broken MIDI is at least better than no MIDI. ;) [porting] I'd certainly be more than willing to throw some money into a paypal account or whatever, and I think there are others who would too. OSS is so 20th century, lets get FreeBSD into 21st century sound architecture design. :-) I would have no objections. If you're a developer seriously interested in this, lets talk. So much of FreeBSD development is sponsored by Universities and whatnot that we take it for granted. When stuff like ALSA doesn't get ported right away, I feel we need to realize our responsibility to contribute to the project as well. Uh... Ok, I have C experience, but my insight into FreeBSD and sound card programming (I remember some experiments with soundblasters in DOS times) is quite limited. Regards, Julian Stecklina To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Need ALSA [was: Re: MIDI on SB Live! ?]
On Saturday 22 March 2003 14:52, Peter Schultz wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, just out of curiosity: Is someone working in MIDI support for Creative EMU10K1 based sound cards (aka Soundblaster Live!) ? Regards, Julian Stecklina Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ I think you wouldn't really do anyone a favour, including the ALSA folks, if you went and made a port right now. The ALSA project is still not at 1.00 status and still quite in-flux. This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. ALSA has been sponsored by SuSE for the benefit of Linux, and there's no reason we can't pull together our resources to do the same for our OS. I'm sure someone will step forward to do the port if we have the cash for them to comfortably sit in front of their computer until the port is complete. I'd appreciate sponsoring somebody to work on our existing newpcm stuff and add the missing bits and pieces much more. Donating hardware (soundcards and MIDI-devices) would probably help very much already. -- Regards, Michael Nottebrock pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: Need ALSA [was: Re: MIDI on SB Live! ?]
Michael Nottebrock wrote: On Saturday 22 March 2003 14:52, Peter Schultz wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, just out of curiosity: Is someone working in MIDI support for Creative EMU10K1 based sound cards (aka Soundblaster Live!) ? Regards, Julian Stecklina Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ I think you wouldn't really do anyone a favour, including the ALSA folks, if you went and made a port right now. The ALSA project is still not at 1.00 status and still quite in-flux. One could go either way with this. Leave it for after 1.0, or grab it now and help build it up for a better 2.0. Or I guess we could initiate the ABSDSA and have support for both ALSA and OSS. Wouldn't this be even more work though? This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. ALSA has been sponsored by SuSE for the benefit of Linux, and there's no reason we can't pull together our resources to do the same for our OS. I'm sure someone will step forward to do the port if we have the cash for them to comfortably sit in front of their computer until the port is complete. I'd appreciate sponsoring somebody to work on our existing newpcm stuff and add the missing bits and pieces much more. Donating hardware (soundcards and MIDI-devices) would probably help very much already. OSS is on the outs. New applications that are ALSA only will soon be common, won't they? Newpcm is what, five years old? Whatever it is, it ain't new anymore. Of course, maybe I'm completely mistaken about the whole situation and all newpcm needs is a boost. What is the right answer? Does OS X have a completely proprietary sound arch? It would be nice to be able to work with what they've got too. Pete... To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Need ALSA [was: Re: MIDI on SB Live! ?]
Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ I think you wouldn't really do anyone a favour, including the ALSA folks, if you went and made a port right now. The ALSA project is still not at 1.00 status and still quite in-flux. One could go either way with this. Leave it for after 1.0, or grab it now and help build it up for a better 2.0. Or I guess we could initiate the ABSDSA and have support for both ALSA and OSS. Wouldn't this be even more work though? porting alsa would gain very little and be a huge regression. This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. ALSA has been sponsored by SuSE for the benefit of Linux, and there's no reason we can't pull together our resources to do the same for our OS. I'm sure someone will step forward to do the port if we have the cash for them to comfortably sit in front of their computer until the port is complete. I'd appreciate sponsoring somebody to work on our existing newpcm stuff and add the missing bits and pieces much more. Donating hardware (soundcards and MIDI-devices) would probably help very much already. OSS is on the outs. New applications that are ALSA only will soon be common, won't they? Newpcm is what, five years old? Whatever it is, it ain't new anymore. Of course, maybe I'm completely mistaken about the whole situation and all newpcm needs is a boost. you are completely mistaken. first, let me correct some of the factual inaccuracies that you are propounding: * newpcm is not even 4 years old yet. * alsa is in no way desireable- it is not a device abstraction system. every app must do userland resampling to play, say 44.1khz sound on a 48khz only chipset. given that it does not provide hardware abstraction, alsa's kernel components are far too complex. * alsa drivers are difficult to write- compare one to its corresponding newpcm driver. * newpcm has a much more advanced architecture than alsa, and is entirely different than oss. the fact that newpcm's dsp and mixer layers implement the oss api is incidental. newpcm v2, which may gain a better name, is under development. i originally hoped to have it ready for 5.0, but very poor health over the last year prevented this. instead, it will be targetted at 6.0 and probably backported to ~5.3+ once feature complete and demonstrably stable. i will not elaborate here on the features planned for v2, but replacing the api is one of them, although oss compatibility will be provided. there are a few people out there who know the plans, but they all know that i want them kept under wraps for now. with only two main developers, you should not expect v2 to be committed much before the end of this year. additional manpower would help, but don't volunteer if i'm going to have to spend time teaching you c, the kernel, kobj or the current design of newpcm. someone well versed in dsp techniques and acquainted with the mathematics of accoustics would be very helpful. money and/or hardware would be nice, but i at least am limited in speed by my body and nothing short of a few million dollars is likely to change that. the single greatest incentive to continue that the community could provide is to refrain from suggesting that newpcm be scrapped or replaced, especially by proponents who are not willing to do the code themselves, do not have a replacement working prior to their proposal, and/or have little to zero knowledge of sound hardware and the requirements of a top-flight audio infrastructure. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Need ALSA
Peter Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. Not so. ALSA is poorly designed (there is no hardware abstraction layer below the driver layer) and would represent a significant challenge to port, not to mention maintain once ported. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Need ALSA
Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Peter Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. Not so. ALSA is poorly designed (there is no hardware abstraction layer below the driver layer) and would represent a significant challenge to port, not to mention maintain once ported. DES I didn't mean to imply that it would be trivial or that it would be complete after the initial port, but I still hold fast that it's easily possible. There's certainly no lack in talent around here, it's just a matter of the group's will to get it done. Pete... To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Need ALSA
Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Peter Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. Not so. ALSA is poorly designed (there is no hardware abstraction Amen. It belongs in to the same catheogry as /proc and v4l - Linux kind of interface invention disaster. layer below the driver layer) and would represent a significant challenge to port, not to mention maintain once ported. DES To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Need ALSA [was: Re: MIDI on SB Live! ?]
Peter Schultz wrote: Michael Nottebrock wrote: On Saturday 22 March 2003 14:52, Peter Schultz wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, just out of curiosity: Is someone working in MIDI support for Creative EMU10K1 based sound cards (aka Soundblaster Live!) ? Regards, Julian Stecklina Having a port of ALSA would sure round out 5.2 nicely, and would get you MIDI support: http://www.alsa-project.org/ I think you wouldn't really do anyone a favour, including the ALSA folks, if you went and made a port right now. The ALSA project is still not at 1.00 status and still quite in-flux. One could go either way with this. Leave it for after 1.0, or grab it now and help build it up for a better 2.0. Or I guess we could initiate the ABSDSA and have support for both ALSA and OSS. Wouldn't this be even more work though? This can easily happen if we get behind a developer. ALSA has been sponsored by SuSE for the benefit of Linux, and there's no reason we can't pull together our resources to do the same for our OS. I'm sure someone will step forward to do the port if we have the cash for them to comfortably sit in front of their computer until the port is complete. I'd appreciate sponsoring somebody to work on our existing newpcm stuff and add the missing bits and pieces much more. Donating hardware (soundcards and MIDI-devices) would probably help very much already. OSS is on the outs. New applications that are ALSA only will soon be common, won't they? Alsa is condemned to driver + some silly user space daemon with naive signal filter anyway. So no problem here. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Need ALSA [was: Re: MIDI on SB Live! ?]
On Saturday 22 March 2003 16:15, Peter Schultz wrote: OSS is on the outs. New applications that are ALSA only will soon be common, won't they? No. In fact, there is quite an explosion in multimedia middleware projects right now and people are having heated discussions in other places which one is the most promising. :) Don't expect many audio apps in the future to be talking directly to some API exported by a kernel. -- Regards, Michael Nottebrock pgp0.pgp Description: signature
