Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
.. then: * test out pkgng on FreeBSD-9.x and provide as much feedback as you can; * help test out massive deployment, upgrade and auditing scenarios - exactly the kinds of things which cloud using people need. Installing 1 boxes is difficult. Auditing, upgrading and integrating services on 10,000 boxes.. much more difficult. * help out with the cloud provision-y service things that FreeBSD is missing - for example, get the vmware vmdk installer stuff be part of the install/release system - so people _can_ easily build FreeBSD VMDK's as appliance/cloud images. * integrate it with Puppet and other configuration/monitoring/management frameworks. Upgrade that integration to whatever counts as Tier-1 in those projects. I bet they focus on Linux only. There's a whole lot of useful work that doesn't at all leave the userland. If you'd like to see FreeBSD in "the cloud", these are the things you need to address. Adrian ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
2012/5/21 Jamie > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:57:33AM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav wrote: > > No, they're not. VMWare, RHEV (KVM-based) etc. provide features such as > > seamless migration of virtual machines from one physical machine to > > another, automatic restart on a different physical server if one fails > > etc. that simply aren't possible with jails; and there are certain > > things you still can't run reliably / safely in jails - anything that > > relies on SysV IPC, for instance, such as PostgreSQL. > > True about the SysV, and I mostly agree about automatic failover. > > But I think the FreeBSD jail system is still the better model for how I > see these things being used (certainly the better *potential*). But yea, > not "quite" cloud. > > When coupled with something like rsync, they *almost* do the job. And for > a lot > of the current "VPS" applications, they do the job. > > But lets suppose you want proper redundancy and partitioned environments, > so, you put FreeBSD on a cloud, but partition your environments into jails. > > Now you have a cheap, low overhead way of doing logical partitioning and > you > still have a "cloud" with redundancy. > That'd fine if you are not taking in account other characteristics that make clouds, well, clouds, like: on-demand self-service, resource pooling, multi-tenancy and rapid elasticity. > (snip) > I threw jails out there because I personally consider them to be the > coolest > part of FreeBSD. > > Agreed that jails are cool and I would like very much to see a FreeBSD-based cloud implementation. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
i am sure the linux weenie troll is sufficiently fed by now. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Am Mon, 21 May 2012 13:47:39 -0500 schrieb Jamie : > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:57:33AM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav wrote: > > No, they're not. VMWare, RHEV (KVM-based) etc. provide features > > such as seamless migration of virtual machines from one physical > > machine to another, automatic restart on a different physical > > server if one fails etc. that simply aren't possible with jails; > > and there are certain things you still can't run reliably / safely > > in jails - anything that relies on SysV IPC, for instance, such as > > PostgreSQL. > > True about the SysV, and I mostly agree about automatic failover. > > But I think the FreeBSD jail system is still the better model for how > I see these things being used (certainly the better *potential*). But > yea, not "quite" cloud. > > When coupled with something like rsync, they *almost* do the job. And > for a lot of the current "VPS" applications, they do the job. Yeah, but the VPS-systems (OpenVZ, Virtuozzo) do the job, too. And for those who want the VPS-model without actually running Linux, there's Joyent's Cloud (public/private) - that can run KVM, too. AFAIK, KVM being slow means you don't have enough I/O. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:57:33AM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav wrote: > No, they're not. VMWare, RHEV (KVM-based) etc. provide features such as > seamless migration of virtual machines from one physical machine to > another, automatic restart on a different physical server if one fails > etc. that simply aren't possible with jails; and there are certain > things you still can't run reliably / safely in jails - anything that > relies on SysV IPC, for instance, such as PostgreSQL. True about the SysV, and I mostly agree about automatic failover. But I think the FreeBSD jail system is still the better model for how I see these things being used (certainly the better *potential*). But yea, not "quite" cloud. When coupled with something like rsync, they *almost* do the job. And for a lot of the current "VPS" applications, they do the job. But lets suppose you want proper redundancy and partitioned environments, so, you put FreeBSD on a cloud, but partition your environments into jails. Now you have a cheap, low overhead way of doing logical partitioning and you still have a "cloud" with redundancy. Linux KVM has serious network issues, and overhead. (I use KVM a fair amount, it's OK for testing, but when under load, KVM-based linux hosting sucks for serious use) If the goal is to get FreeBSD uber popular, then turn the alphas on to the jail system. (or the pre-emptive swapping, or.. or.. or...) I don't believe it's about glitter as much as people say it is, at least, not anymore. I threw jails out there because I personally consider them to be the coolest part of FreeBSD. Jamie ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
RE: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
> -Original Message- > From: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [mailto:d...@des.no] > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 9:48 AM > To: Oleg Moskalenko > Cc: Jamie; Vincent Hoffman; Vance Siemens; Rick Macklem; freebsd- > c...@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication... > > Oleg Moskalenko writes: > > Modern large-scale virtualization technologies are based upon > > bare-metal versions of VMWare and XenServer. They are not Linux and > > they are not FreeBSD > > AFAIK, RHEV is KVM on top of RHEL This is true. But KVMs share is still very small, around 2%, so its too early to say about the technology. KVM approach is to blend the hyperviser and the Linux kernel in one single thing. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Oleg Moskalenko writes: > Modern large-scale virtualization technologies are based upon > bare-metal versions of VMWare and XenServer. They are not Linux and > they are not FreeBSD AFAIK, RHEV is KVM on top of RHEL. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
RE: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Modern large-scale virtualization technologies are based upon bare-metal versions of VMWare and XenServer. They are not Linux and they are not FreeBSD - the Hypervisors are a specialized breed of OSes (albeit, the hypervisor manager is usually a UNIX-like OS). Any conventional OS (Linux, FreeBSD) can only do their best to be a "civilized" guest OS. Linux or FreeBSD cannot be a server platform for real enterprise virtualization - the hypervisors have won that place. This is not a contest point between Linux and FreeBSD. The jail system is not helpful for enterprise virtualization, either. Oleg > -Original Message- > From: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > curr...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Dag-Erling Smørgrav > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 1:58 AM > To: Jamie > Cc: Vincent Hoffman; Vance Siemens; Rick Macklem; freebsd- > c...@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication... > > Jamie writes: > > Jails are usually more suited to "cloud work" than KVM or the latest > > OpenVZ/Containers/??? of the linux world ever will be... > > No, they're not. VMWare, RHEV (KVM-based) etc. provide features such > as > seamless migration of virtual machines from one physical machine to > another, automatic restart on a different physical server if one fails > etc. that simply aren't possible with jails; and there are certain > things you still can't run reliably / safely in jails - anything that > relies on SysV IPC, for instance, such as PostgreSQL. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current- > unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 04:42:12PM -0400, Rick Macklem wrote: > Well, I worked for a computer science dept. for 30years and it seemed > to go something like this: > - Undergrad installs "toy" version of Linux on their desktop/laptop, > likes it and promotes it to their friends. > - When these students graduate, they put Linux/Unix experience on their > resume and get hired by a company with no Unix-like systems expertise. > --> They set up Linux servers for said company. > > If the same was happening for xxBSD, then they would list that as well as > Linux and they would at least be aware that both existed. I don't believe > FreeBSD needs to try and do the easy to install GUI distro, but they could > reference the xxBSD distros that do try to do this. (Yea, I know someone > didn't like using the term distro for xxBSD distributions, but...) I've got a friend/associate who refers to FreeBSD as a "niche" operating system. He raves about how great the cloud is and gets a chuckle out of me running a "niche" system. This guy is smart, perhaps even brilliant. He's wise to many technologies, and yet he seems to think of FreeBSD as a joke. Jails are usually more suited to "cloud work" than KVM or the latest OpenVZ/Containers/??? of the linux world ever will be... and yet, when you look into so-called cloud computing (a fuzzy term that I pretty much lump compartmentalization & redundancy into) FreeBSD is mostly unheard of. Clearly, FreeBSD is missing out on the cloud, even though the jail system in FreeBSD is quite awesome. The real problem, as I see it, is the failure to recognize the value of open UNIX-ish systems. Linux *is* better at some things, so is OpenBSD, and so is FreeBSD. (I won't be running FreeBSD on the desktop ever again.. been there once, it sucked) It's unfortunate that people make IT decisions based on popularity. Not just operating systems, "mysql is the best database" for example. I think we ought to call it "cow computing" because people act like cattle when they make decisions... follow the herd. If the goal is to make freebsd uber-popular, it needs more alpha cows, not "more quality".. it already has awesome quality. I don't think more shiny things will help, but shiny glitter could end up hurting it, if it interferes with the elegance FreeBSD currently enjoys. Make the jail system appeal to the alpha's and we'd see it rocket in server popularity. Jamie -- http://www.triviacompanion.com Jet-Set & Jazzy Bachelor Pad Music Jazz * Lounge * Spy Sounds=< Relaxing Work Music - Fun Times >= ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Jamie writes: > Jails are usually more suited to "cloud work" than KVM or the latest > OpenVZ/Containers/??? of the linux world ever will be... No, they're not. VMWare, RHEV (KVM-based) etc. provide features such as seamless migration of virtual machines from one physical machine to another, automatic restart on a different physical server if one fails etc. that simply aren't possible with jails; and there are certain things you still can't run reliably / safely in jails - anything that relies on SysV IPC, for instance, such as PostgreSQL. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 04:42:12PM -0400, Rick Macklem wrote: > Jamie wrote: > > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 07:20:18PM -0400, Vance Siemens wrote: > > > Eh, sorry. I got excited at the prospect of downloading FreeBSD from ... > Well, I worked for a computer science dept. for 30years and it seemed > to go something like this: > - Undergrad installs "toy" version of Linux on their desktop/laptop, > likes it and promotes it to their friends. > - When these students graduate, they put Linux/Unix experience on their > resume and get hired by a company with no Unix-like systems expertise. > --> They set up Linux servers for said company. > > If the same was happening for xxBSD, then they would list that as well as > Linux and they would at least be aware that both existed. I don't believe > FreeBSD needs to try and do the easy to install GUI distro, but they could > reference the xxBSD distros that do try to do this. (Yea, I know someone > didn't like using the term distro for xxBSD distributions, but...) And when I do get people to look at PCBSD since it looks so spiffy, they download an ISO only to have it not boot. It's incredibly frustrating. > > rick - Diane -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db Why leave money to our children if we don't leave them the Earth? ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Jamie wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 07:20:18PM -0400, Vance Siemens wrote: > > Eh, sorry. I got excited at the prospect of downloading FreeBSD from > > the App Store and having the installer "just work" in a modern GUI. > > You have to admit, FreeBSD is lacking in this area. It would be a > > boon. > > Personally, I wouldn't like that. A good text UI with a menu is > perfect, > it works over terminals. It's perfect for server environments. > > If anything, I should think remote access should be improved. > > When I want the GUI operating system that "just works" at the expense > of forcing me to do everything their way, I use ubuntu. > > Ubuntu is a toy, suitable for watching videos, browsing and doing > email. It > does a pretty good job of that, whats the point of trying to out-do > them > in the toy department? > Well, I worked for a computer science dept. for 30years and it seemed to go something like this: - Undergrad installs "toy" version of Linux on their desktop/laptop, likes it and promotes it to their friends. - When these students graduate, they put Linux/Unix experience on their resume and get hired by a company with no Unix-like systems expertise. --> They set up Linux servers for said company. If the same was happening for xxBSD, then they would list that as well as Linux and they would at least be aware that both existed. I don't believe FreeBSD needs to try and do the easy to install GUI distro, but they could reference the xxBSD distros that do try to do this. (Yea, I know someone didn't like using the term distro for xxBSD distributions, but...) rick > I suppose if they had to do it, a browser based install would be cool. > Then you > could spend most of your time trying to get the network settings > working so the > browser would work. :-) > > The real problem, as I see it, is public perception. I see people > using > toys like ubuntu for servers, proclaiming "linux is good for servers" > and > thats just silly. (but it is the popular opinion) > > Linux (especially ubuntu) isn't particularly wonderful for most > servers. > > Jamie > > -- > http://www.triviacompanion.com Jet-Set & Jazzy Bachelor Pad Music > Jazz * Lounge * Spy Sounds =< Relaxing Work Music - Fun Times >= > > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Maybe there is some truth to this. FreeBSD uses use clang, Apple's compiler, since FreeBSD 9: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2012-May/067486.html. On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Matthew Jacob wrote: > On 5/12/2012 6:25 AM, Vance Siemens wrote: >> >> Can you share a brief overview of what's wrong with it? I guess I'm >> not as knowledgeable as I thought. The story was quite enticing to me. >> > Very few of the historical facts are actually correct. > > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 07:20:18PM -0400, Vance Siemens wrote: > Eh, sorry. I got excited at the prospect of downloading FreeBSD from > the App Store and having the installer "just work" in a modern GUI. > You have to admit, FreeBSD is lacking in this area. It would be a > boon. Personally, I wouldn't like that. A good text UI with a menu is perfect, it works over terminals. It's perfect for server environments. If anything, I should think remote access should be improved. When I want the GUI operating system that "just works" at the expense of forcing me to do everything their way, I use ubuntu. Ubuntu is a toy, suitable for watching videos, browsing and doing email. It does a pretty good job of that, whats the point of trying to out-do them in the toy department? I suppose if they had to do it, a browser based install would be cool. Then you could spend most of your time trying to get the network settings working so the browser would work. :-) The real problem, as I see it, is public perception. I see people using toys like ubuntu for servers, proclaiming "linux is good for servers" and thats just silly. (but it is the popular opinion) Linux (especially ubuntu) isn't particularly wonderful for most servers. Jamie -- http://www.triviacompanion.com Jet-Set & Jazzy Bachelor Pad Music Jazz * Lounge * Spy Sounds=< Relaxing Work Music - Fun Times >= ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Arlen Cuss writes: > "Troll" *is* right there in the name! Yes, thank you, we hadn't noticed. Good thing you were there to set us straight. Oh, and please learn to quote. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
RE: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Its not that bad. PCBSD (with FreeBSD 9.0 inside) has a relatively decent GUI setup, with several viable GUI choices. Oleg -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Hamell, Rick (SPARQ) Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 8:23 PM To: Vance Siemens Cc: Dag-Erling Smørgrav; freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-c...@freebsd.org; Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication... What, 8bit color ANSI isn't GUI enough? But seriously, it feels like it works even worse then it did a decade ago. Rick Hamell Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2012, at 4:20 PM, "Vance Siemens" wrote: > Eh, sorry. I got excited at the prospect of downloading FreeBSD from > the App Store and having the installer "just work" in a modern GUI. > You have to admit, FreeBSD is lacking in this area. It would be a > boon. > > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >> Vance Siemens writes: >>> Can you share a brief overview of what's wrong with it? >> >> Umm, it's about as factual as The Onion, except not as funny. >> FreeBSD never had to "jettison two thirds of its code base and start >> from scratch". Apple is not involved in FreeBSD development. No Mac >> OS X or Darwin version "includes" FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Mac OS X will >> never merge. FreeBSD was never acquired by WinDriver Systems or by >> anyone else, although a company named WindRiver Systems (makers of >> the embedded operating system VxWorks, not of Windows video drivers) >> did at one point acquire BSDI, which had previously acquired Walnut >> Creek CD-ROM, which was heavily involved in the early history of both >> FreeBSD and Slackware Linux. The remains of Walnut Creek CD-ROM and >> BSDI are now known as FreeBSD Mall and iXsystems (of PC-BSD and FreeNAS >> fame). >> >> DES >> -- >> Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no > ___ > freebsd-c...@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
> > > > > > Umm, it's about as factual as The Onion, except not as funny. FreeBSD > > > never had to "jettison two thirds of its code base and start from > > > scratch". Apple is not involved in FreeBSD development. No Mac OS X or > > > Darwin version "includes" FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Mac OS X will never > > > merge. FreeBSD was never acquired by WinDriver Systems or by anyone > > > else, although a company named WindRiver Systems (makers of the embedded > > > operating system VxWorks, not of Windows video drivers) did at one point > > > acquire BSDI, which had previously acquired Walnut Creek CD-ROM, which > > > was heavily involved in the early history of both FreeBSD and Slackware > > > Linux. The remains of Walnut Creek CD-ROM and BSDI are now known as > > > FreeBSD Mall and iXsystems (of PC-BSD and FreeNAS fame). > > > "Troll" *is* right there in the name! > > > > > > DES > > > -- > > > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no (mailto:d...@des.no) > > > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
What, 8bit color ANSI isn't GUI enough? But seriously, it feels like it works even worse then it did a decade ago. Rick Hamell Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2012, at 4:20 PM, "Vance Siemens" wrote: > Eh, sorry. I got excited at the prospect of downloading FreeBSD from > the App Store and having the installer "just work" in a modern GUI. > You have to admit, FreeBSD is lacking in this area. It would be a > boon. > > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >> Vance Siemens writes: >>> Can you share a brief overview of what's wrong with it? >> >> Umm, it's about as factual as The Onion, except not as funny. FreeBSD >> never had to "jettison two thirds of its code base and start from >> scratch". Apple is not involved in FreeBSD development. No Mac OS X or >> Darwin version "includes" FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Mac OS X will never >> merge. FreeBSD was never acquired by WinDriver Systems or by anyone >> else, although a company named WindRiver Systems (makers of the embedded >> operating system VxWorks, not of Windows video drivers) did at one point >> acquire BSDI, which had previously acquired Walnut Creek CD-ROM, which >> was heavily involved in the early history of both FreeBSD and Slackware >> Linux. The remains of Walnut Creek CD-ROM and BSDI are now known as >> FreeBSD Mall and iXsystems (of PC-BSD and FreeNAS fame). >> >> DES >> -- >> Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no > ___ > freebsd-c...@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Eh, sorry. I got excited at the prospect of downloading FreeBSD from the App Store and having the installer "just work" in a modern GUI. You have to admit, FreeBSD is lacking in this area. It would be a boon. On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Vance Siemens writes: >> Can you share a brief overview of what's wrong with it? > > Umm, it's about as factual as The Onion, except not as funny. FreeBSD > never had to "jettison two thirds of its code base and start from > scratch". Apple is not involved in FreeBSD development. No Mac OS X or > Darwin version "includes" FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Mac OS X will never > merge. FreeBSD was never acquired by WinDriver Systems or by anyone > else, although a company named WindRiver Systems (makers of the embedded > operating system VxWorks, not of Windows video drivers) did at one point > acquire BSDI, which had previously acquired Walnut Creek CD-ROM, which > was heavily involved in the early history of both FreeBSD and Slackware > Linux. The remains of Walnut Creek CD-ROM and BSDI are now known as > FreeBSD Mall and iXsystems (of PC-BSD and FreeNAS fame). > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:57 AM, Chuck Burns wrote: > You guys DO realize that's a troll website, right? And you're being > seriously trolled.. right? > The URL is legit! This is noes trollz! -- chs, ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On 5/16/2012 6:02 PM, Outback Dingo wrote: Guess his next claim will be that the kernel was forked from minix, and userland came from QNX... some people are just plain (biting my tongue) You guys DO realize that's a troll website, right? And you're being seriously trolled.. right? *shakes head and walks away* Chuck Burns ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Thomas Mueller wrote: > Umm, it's about as factual as The Onion, except not as funny. FreeBSD > never had to "jettison two thirds of its code base and start from > scratch". Apple is not involved in FreeBSD development. No Mac OS X or > Darwin version "includes" FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Mac OS X will never > merge. FreeBSD was never acquired by WinDriver Systems or by anyone > else, although a company named WindRiver Systems (makers of the embedded > operating system VxWorks, not of Windows video drivers) did at one point > acquire BSDI, which had previously acquired Walnut Creek CD-ROM, which > was heavily involved in the early history of both FreeBSD and Slackware > Linux. The remains of Walnut Creek CD-ROM and BSDI are now known as > FreeBSD Mall and iXsystems (of PC-BSD and FreeNAS fame). > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no > > I was a long-time subscriber to Slackware going back to Walnut Creek CDROM > days (Slackware 96 to the best of my memory, but < 3.0). > > I believe FreeBSD Mall and Slackware (store.slackware.com) are connected. I > had a difficult time terminating my Slackware subscription, customer service > ignoring me, thought I was going to have to have my credit card number > changed to jilt Slackware. I noticed the similarity in subscription > arrangement between FreeBSD Mall and store.slackware.com. > > Slackware package system is geared to binary packages rather than building > from source, and there is no tracking of dependencies. A package can be > installed even if dependencies are missing, and that even happened in > Slackware releases, as I found when I tried unsuccessfully to run gnumeric > many releases ago, got the message of missing library. Seeing the better > package managers in FreeBSD (ports), NetBSD (pkgsrc, and ported to other > (quasi-)Unix OSes), and several Linux distributions is what made me not want > to go further with Slackware. Multimedia files failing to play may have been > due to lack of proper package management. > > Tom Guess his next claim will be that the kernel was forked from minix, and userland came from QNX... some people are just plain (biting my tongue) > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Umm, it's about as factual as The Onion, except not as funny. FreeBSD never had to "jettison two thirds of its code base and start from scratch". Apple is not involved in FreeBSD development. No Mac OS X or Darwin version "includes" FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Mac OS X will never merge. FreeBSD was never acquired by WinDriver Systems or by anyone else, although a company named WindRiver Systems (makers of the embedded operating system VxWorks, not of Windows video drivers) did at one point acquire BSDI, which had previously acquired Walnut Creek CD-ROM, which was heavily involved in the early history of both FreeBSD and Slackware Linux. The remains of Walnut Creek CD-ROM and BSDI are now known as FreeBSD Mall and iXsystems (of PC-BSD and FreeNAS fame). DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no I was a long-time subscriber to Slackware going back to Walnut Creek CDROM days (Slackware 96 to the best of my memory, but < 3.0). I believe FreeBSD Mall and Slackware (store.slackware.com) are connected. I had a difficult time terminating my Slackware subscription, customer service ignoring me, thought I was going to have to have my credit card number changed to jilt Slackware. I noticed the similarity in subscription arrangement between FreeBSD Mall and store.slackware.com. Slackware package system is geared to binary packages rather than building from source, and there is no tracking of dependencies. A package can be installed even if dependencies are missing, and that even happened in Slackware releases, as I found when I tried unsuccessfully to run gnumeric many releases ago, got the message of missing library. Seeing the better package managers in FreeBSD (ports), NetBSD (pkgsrc, and ported to other (quasi-)Unix OSes), and several Linux distributions is what made me not want to go further with Slackware. Multimedia files failing to play may have been due to lack of proper package management. Tom ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Vance Siemens writes: > Can you share a brief overview of what's wrong with it? Umm, it's about as factual as The Onion, except not as funny. FreeBSD never had to "jettison two thirds of its code base and start from scratch". Apple is not involved in FreeBSD development. No Mac OS X or Darwin version "includes" FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Mac OS X will never merge. FreeBSD was never acquired by WinDriver Systems or by anyone else, although a company named WindRiver Systems (makers of the embedded operating system VxWorks, not of Windows video drivers) did at one point acquire BSDI, which had previously acquired Walnut Creek CD-ROM, which was heavily involved in the early history of both FreeBSD and Slackware Linux. The remains of Walnut Creek CD-ROM and BSDI are now known as FreeBSD Mall and iXsystems (of PC-BSD and FreeNAS fame). DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On 5/12/2012 6:25 AM, Vance Siemens wrote: Can you share a brief overview of what's wrong with it? I guess I'm not as knowledgeable as I thought. The story was quite enticing to me. Very few of the historical facts are actually correct. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Can you share a brief overview of what's wrong with it? I guess I'm not as knowledgeable as I thought. The story was quite enticing to me. On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Vincent Hoffman writes: >> Vance Siemens writes: >> > http://www.trollaxor.com/2012/05/freebsd-x-berkeley-unix-apple-quality.html >> I almost laughed but it shows a pretty limited imagination for a site >> thats dedicated to trolling. > > I don't think they're trying to be funny... but it's nothing to get > riled up about. Just get ready to (respectfully) correct anyone who > reads it and takes it seriously. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
Am 03.05.2012 06:31, schrieb Vance Siemens: > Can't say that I wouldn't look forward to this, but it sounds a little off: > > http://www.trollaxor.com/2012/05/freebsd-x-berkeley-unix-apple-quality.html > > What do others think? Looks like the author was just one month late with his April's fool joke. And there are real funny parts, e.g. how Wind River is spelled WinDriver (and described as a company that writing drivers for Windows, as its name says ;-) ...). I have entered an anonymous comment and I'm curious, whether they will allow it to appear below the article (it is awaiting moderator approval). Regards, STefan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Vance Siemens wrote: > Can't say that I wouldn't look forward to this, but it sounds a little off: > > http://www.trollaxor.com/2012/05/freebsd-x-berkeley-unix-apple-quality.html > > What do others think? ROTFL. Thank you for the laughs. That was slashdot's "Netcraft confirms: BSD is dying" meme on steroids. I didn't imagine that someone would come along and pile on it a whole blog entry so full of inaccuracies. -cpghost. > --Vance -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On 03.05.2012 05:31, Vance Siemens wrote: Can't say that I wouldn't look forward to this, but it sounds a little off: http://www.trollaxor.com/2012/05/freebsd-x-berkeley-unix-apple-quality.html What do others think? --Vance ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" I hope this is some kind of sick joke... I can't imagine anything worse. Jake. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On 05/03/12 06:31, Vance Siemens wrote: > Can't say that I wouldn't look forward to this, but it sounds a little off: > > http://www.trollaxor.com/2012/05/freebsd-x-berkeley-unix-apple-quality.html > > What do others think? > > --Vance OMG! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FreeBSD 10 prognostication...
On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 12:31:12AM -0400, Vance Siemens wrote: > Can't say that I wouldn't look forward to this, but it sounds a little off: > > http://www.trollaxor.com/2012/05/freebsd-x-berkeley-unix-apple-quality.html > > What do others think? Please leave trollaxor on Kuro5hin or slashdot where he belongs. I mean, this isn't even adequacy level stuff. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
