Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
Dear friends, I know that many of you may feel slightly let-down by the fact that nothing truly significant seems to have happened during our transition to the year 2000, a good many button-clicks on www.cnn.com having gone for naught as the hour approached and receded, nothing following yet more nothing as we waited for calamities which never came. I was certainly expecting at least one big bomb to go off somewhere, if not an actual nuclear device, and I know many others had their money on some sort of significant terrorist attack on the western nations or, failing that, at least the mass-arrest and deportation of thousands of "shady characters" and some hasty amendments to the American constitution which allowed more expeditious handling of such people in the future. No such luck. Not even a plummeting Chinese airliner (with their minister for transportation on board) enlivened the headlines and it was all just so frightfully dull dull dull the entire time. Believe me, I commiserate with all of you. However, even so I must object to this rather flagrantly transparent attempt to cheer up (?) the doom-sayers by stage-mastering an "apocalyptic flame war" in the -current mailing list. A TRULY apocalyptic flame war, with people resigning their positions and switching to The HURD left and right, that might have actually been kind of interesting and gone, in a rather pathetic way, some ways towards redressing the balance for the disappointing lack of a [not]millennial world-wide conflagration. This, however, was just too camp to be believable and, as much as I have to thank Karl for trying, he just went a little bit TOO far in his attempt to spray spittle in a convincing fashion and the whole suspension of disbelief thing just collapsed for me, so in the end I really just couldn't find it as enlivening as the genuine article. I know Karl's heart was in the right place though and I appreciate the gesture. That's our Karl, always thinking of others. A big man with a big heart! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
FYI: I've been hearing from karl for years on IRC related lists..
I was rather suprised to see him on the freebsd-* lists, and I was even more
suprised to see that he was being civil..
I guess his prozac prescription expired (y2k bug?)
We're better off without him.. next thing you know, he will be threatening
to sue us because he was (in his imagination) unfairly removed from the lists.
if there is interest in a week or so, I may dig out the old dirt, and post a
summary of his antics on operlist a few years back. (but only if there is
interest.)
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie@{w6yx|tantivy}.stanford.edu | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --
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Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:30:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty [EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] The proper tactic to resolve the conflict should have been to wait a cool off period and then slug it off technically. Nevertheless, instead of waiting for Karl to cool off and attempt to ration with him , it was much easier to drive him further down: hence thru censorship the "technical" argument was won with virtually no technical effort at all -- Like I said earlier very very nice tactic ! the stipulated cooling-off period is two weeks. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
Sam, If you believe that either 1. someone removed Karl from the freebsd-current list or 2. that someone is covering this up, please call me at 410-320-7108. thanks jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
On Sun, Jan 02, 2000 at 09:59:28PM -0600, wrote: He is just expressing his point. From what I can tell someone removed him from the list with no reason and now he is angry. I probably would be too. Please cool it, it has happened to me more than once, and I believe I havn't insulted any on these mailinglists, it's probably a "feature" of majordomo, as I've also seen it here with some of our mailing lists, this one just had a particular bad timing ... /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk Work:Network manager @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks) Private: Geek@ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-) One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, David Greenman wrote: Also, I can tell that someone is doing some good covering up. Its ashame to see leaders do this. How can you tell that? There is no evidence to support that. *I'm* certainly not covering anything up and I've seen no reason to believe that anyone else is, either. As a *non* CORE member, I'm still looking for this alleged cover-up too...Karl alleges that someone logged in and modified those files manually, which, if anyone has every admin'd majordomo knows, is not a requirement. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
The Hermit Hacker wrote: On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, David Greenman wrote: Also, I can tell that someone is doing some good covering up. Its ashame t o see leaders do this. How can you tell that? There is no evidence to support that. *I'm* certainly not covering anything up and I've seen no reason to believe that anyone else is, either. As a *non* CORE member, I'm still looking for this alleged cover-up too...Karl alleges that someone logged in and modified those files manually, which, if anyone has every admin'd majordomo knows, is not a requirement. Just take a look at the last week of bugtraq about majordomo.. if somebody edited files, it could have been *anyone* with an account on hub - root or not. That leaves about 296 people who could have logged in, done it and logged out again. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
RE: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
techie,
I, too, remember Karl from IRC, but this isn't the place (there's probably
also some things one could dig up on you, prae, piker, mjr and myself) for
that type of post, so please don't. This isn't operlist and hopefully the
antics here are over too.
oh, and you'll never guess what nick I oper'd under :P
(and I'll never tell)
FreeBSD
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"LinSUX is only free if your time is worthless"
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bob Vaughan
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 3:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
FYI: I've been hearing from karl for years on IRC related lists..
I was rather suprised to see him on the freebsd-* lists, and I
was even more
suprised to see that he was being civil..
I guess his prozac prescription expired (y2k bug?)
We're better off without him.. next thing you know, he will be
threatening
to sue us because he was (in his imagination) unfairly removed
from the lists.
if there is interest in a week or so, I may dig out the old dirt,
and post a
summary of his antics on operlist a few years back. (but only if there is
interest.)
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie@{w6yx|tantivy}.stanford.edu | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
I have to say that PHK has become the MASTER at pissing people off, ensuring that his opponent goes the deep end and staying calm so the blame obviously does not fall on him. Got to admit his formula is very very nice 8) By a long shot the problem is NOT Karl. It takes at least TWO to engage in a combatitive conflict -- that is if you are not schizophreniac. The proper tactic to resolve the conflict should have been to wait a cool off period and then slug it off technically. Nevertheless, instead of waiting for Karl to cool off and attempt to ration with him , it was much easier to drive him further down: hence thru censorship the "technical" argument was won with virtually no technical effort at all -- Like I said earlier very very nice tactic ! -- Amancio Hasty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
Someone logged into HUB the EDITED me out of the CURRENT mailing list. As near as I can tell, noone with the ability to su was logged into hub earlier today when you claim that you were removed. As far as I know, noone had removed you. I have not seen any messages (other than your claim) or any other evidence that would indicate such an action occured. Again, who was su'd or logged into the majordomo account (or any account with write access to the list directories) a few hours ago? Noone as far as I can tell. Jonathan is a man of exceptional integrity and you have no basis for making the accusations that you have against him. I think you owe him an apology. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
I have to say that PHK has become the MASTER at pissing people off, ensuring that his opponent goes the deep end and staying calm so the blame obviously does not fall on him. Got to admit his formula is very very nice 8) I dont think so. Whatever PHK may or may not have done in the past his answers in this latest storm in a tea cup were more than reasonable and informative. By a long shot the problem is NOT Karl. It takes at least TWO to engage in a combatitive conflict -- that is if you are not schizophreniac. Yes it was two - Karl vs reasoned discussion. tonym To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
I have to say that PHK has become the MASTER at pissing people off, ensuring that his opponent goes the deep end and staying calm so the blame obviously does not fall on him. Got to admit his formula is very very nice 8) By a long shot the problem is NOT Karl. It takes at least TWO to engage in a combatitive conflict -- that is if you are not schizophreniac. The proper tactic to resolve the conflict should have been to wait a cool off period and then slug it off technically. Nevertheless, instead of waiting for Karl to cool off and attempt to ration with him , it was much easier to drive him further down: hence thru censorship the "technical" argument was won with virtually no technical effort at all -- Like I said earlier very very nice tactic ! May I respectfully request that people not jump to conclusions without a lot more to go on than some angry accusations. I would also like to say that Poul-Henning's behavior in this thread was exceptional and that Karl had no reason to react the way he did. I think Karl owes a lot of people some apologies. His behavior was clearly inappropriate and continues to be so. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
He is just expressing his point. From what I can tell someone removed him from the list with no reason and now he is angry. I probably would be too. Also, I can tell that someone is doing some good covering up. Its ashame to see leaders do this. Sam - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:56 PM Subject: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me Congratulations, Karl. You just proven to the world what a complete asshole you really are. Now get out of here. We don't want you. -- This message has been sent via an anonymous mail relay at www.no-id.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Amancio Hasty wrote: I have to say that PHK has become the MASTER at pissing people off, ensuring that his opponent goes the deep end and staying calm so the blame obviously does not fall on him. Got to admit his formula is very very nice 8) By a long shot the problem is NOT Karl. It takes at least TWO to engage in a combatitive conflict -- that is if you are not schizophreniac. The proper tactic to resolve the conflict should have been to wait a cool off period and then slug it off technically. Nevertheless, instead of waiting for Karl to cool off and attempt to ration with him , it was much easier to drive him further down: hence thru censorship the "technical" argument was won with virtually no technical effort at all -- Like I said earlier very very nice tactic ! Amancio, you are making assumptions, ones that are completely incorrect here. Karl's frothing started with a lot of raging at Steve on the ports list, and at the entire structure of ports. Poul didn't get into it until quite a bit later, and it was Karl who went after Poul, not vice versa. Poul reacted to someone accusing him of a complete lack of integrity (with no more evidence than McCarthy had in the 50's) merely by asking him to step back a little ways before he really annoyed folks. I wonder if I would react as well? What's more, while you're right that Poul's sometimes been abrasive in the past, his behaviour has been so above reproach here that I felt it necessary to jump in, just to highlight the fact, and maybe to avoid having people jump at the assumption you made (I referenced that directly in my post). I've never met Poul personally, but I *have* met Jonathan Bresler. That last post of Karl's, well, if that doesn't categorize him in your eyes, then I guess nothing will. Believe me, Amancio, Jonathan didn't deserve that. I think everyone really should let this darn thread die Chuck Robey| Interests include C Java programming, New Year's Resolution: I | electronics, communications, and will not sphroxify gullible| signal processing. people into looking up | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and fictitious words in the| jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha)| dictionary.| To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
On Sun, Jan 02, 2000 at 09:59:28PM -0600, wrote: He is just expressing his point. From what I can tell someone removed him from the list with no reason and now he is angry. I probably would be too. That does not excuse his style of communication. Shouting and calling people names is no solution. It will damage the relationship between the involved parties and will make an agreement among them impossible. You can express emotions, but please do it in a civilized and controlled way. I usually recommened the following books to disagreeing parties. They are easy to read and tell you much about communication. Getting to Yes, by Fisher and Ury, ISBN 0140157352 (Focusing on Interests, not on Positions) Getting Past No, by Ury, ISBN 0553371312 (Negotiating Your Way from Confrontation to Cooperation) -- Regards, Sascha Schumann Consultant To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
At 08:20 PM 1/2/00 -0800, David Greenman wrote: He is just expressing his point. From what I can tell someone removed him from the list with no reason and now he is angry. I probably would be too. That is not at all what happend. Karl went off the deep end about phk recommending a Motorola GPS to do timekeeping. Then, after a pile of insulting messages from Karl, Karl made an accusation that someone removed him from three of the mailing lists. For at least two of those lists, he was simply wrong. For the third (freebsd-current), there is no evidence to support his claim. Also, I can tell that someone is doing some good covering up. Its ashame to see leaders do this. How can you tell that? There is no evidence to support that. *I'm* certainly not covering anything up and I've seen no reason to believe that anyone else is, either. -DG PLEASE STOP THIS There are things that need fixing and this is going nowhere. You are all very talented people. Enough Enough Thanks Manfred = ||[EMAIL PROTECTED] || ||Ph. (415) 681-6235|| = To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
Hi David, My post is not really based upon the last Karl vs. Pohl thread. It is more on what I have observed quietly over the last few months . If the behavior is left unchecked you can rest assure that their will be more flares up. Again, to have waited for Karl to cool off is not that unreasonable to ask if the interested party wanted to reason with him. I supposed that there are some who are a virtuoso at calming and reasoning with extremely angry people. I have always opted to wait for the person to calm down and then try to reason with them. Perhaps , in this new WWW world my ways are wrong and old fashioned... Take Care Guys, I am back to hacking and yes I am having a great time ! -- Amancio Hasty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
-- enters stage right ... opens door ... heyy a party! And nobody invited me! U, Why's the piano broken in two and all the tables overturned? Ahhh, whats with all the stares? guys? Guys! exits stage left (at a run) -- -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no LYING message to me
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Matthew Dillon wrote: -- enters stage right ... opens door ... heyy a party! And nobody invited me! U, Why's the piano broken in two and all the tables overturned? Ahhh, whats with all the stares? guys? Guys! exits stage left (at a run) -- -Matt Aww, you missed it! We had a broken bottle with your name on it! :-) Chuck Robey| Interests include C Java programming, New Year's Resolution: I | electronics, communications, and will not sphroxify gullible| signal processing. people into looking up | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and fictitious words in the| jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha)| dictionary.| To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Your misleading, no, LYING message to me
* From: Karl Denninger [EMAIL PROTECTED] rant Wow, that was good! I'm going to nominate this for "this century's most amusing message on the FreeBSD lists" award. :) Satoshi "you can figure out which century I'm talking about" Asami To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
