Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
FreeBSD doesn't implement OFDM in the kernel. The various chipsets implement OFDM, not FreeBSD. There's no "software" OFDM. The 802.11 chipsets out there take care of it, not FreeBSD. Adrian On 7 March 2011 04:42, Etienne Robillard wrote: > On 06/03/11 12:36 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > On Sunday 06 March 2011 18:19:31 Etienne Robillard wrote: > > > >> On 06/03/11 11:58 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >> > > > >> yes, the difference with 'software OFDM' and hardware OFDM - as in > >> run(4) - is the latter > >> exploits 'objects' and 'peoples' as subcarriers units with > >> "bi-directional data" when > >> software OFDM could be used to securely convert the raw ELF/VLF energy > >> input to > >> a external server (the Power Server).. > >> > >> could then this not require a security advisory for hardware OFDM > devices > >> circulating in the wild to boost 802.11 'speeds' and 'ranges' ? > >> > > Hi Etienne, > > > > I think you are reading too much into too little and that further > discussion > > into the details you suggest is not appropriate for this list. I believe > that > > developers on the -current list are serious people, wanting to remove > problems > > in this world rather than create them. Exploits are possible when the > > developers are not given enough time to research good solutions. Maybe > you > > want to support FreeBSD developers by donating some money via the FreeBSD > > foundation, so that we can do a better job, removing your fears of > software > > exploits in interaction with humans :-) > > > > --HPS > > > > BTW: Our slogan is "The power to serve" and not "the power server" :-) > > ___ > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > > X-UID: 11883 > > Status: > > X-Keywords: > > Content-Length: 0 > > > > > > I've put a wiki page for anyone interested in the topic of building a > OFDM-based kernel here: > > https://gthc.org/wiki/FreeBSD/OFDM_Kernel > > and I still think hardware OFDM is inherently insecure as-is in FreeBSD > even if not everyone > seems to agree or willing to debate the idea with strong arguments to > prove the contrary. > > > > -- > Etienne Robillard > > Company: Green Tea Hackers Club > Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) > E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org > Work phone: 450-936-2123 > Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ > Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ > PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 > A086 DDEC > > During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary > act. -- George Orwell > > If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few > who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy > > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 12:36 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Sunday 06 March 2011 18:19:31 Etienne Robillard wrote: > >> On 06/03/11 11:58 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >> > >> yes, the difference with 'software OFDM' and hardware OFDM - as in >> run(4) - is the latter >> exploits 'objects' and 'peoples' as subcarriers units with >> "bi-directional data" when >> software OFDM could be used to securely convert the raw ELF/VLF energy >> input to >> a external server (the Power Server).. >> >> could then this not require a security advisory for hardware OFDM devices >> circulating in the wild to boost 802.11 'speeds' and 'ranges' ? >> > Hi Etienne, > > I think you are reading too much into too little and that further discussion > into the details you suggest is not appropriate for this list. I believe that > developers on the -current list are serious people, wanting to remove > problems > in this world rather than create them. Exploits are possible when the > developers are not given enough time to research good solutions. Maybe you > want to support FreeBSD developers by donating some money via the FreeBSD > foundation, so that we can do a better job, removing your fears of software > exploits in interaction with humans :-) > > --HPS > > BTW: Our slogan is "The power to serve" and not "the power server" :-) > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > X-UID: 11883 > Status: > X-Keywords: > > Content-Length: 0 > > I've put a wiki page for anyone interested in the topic of building a OFDM-based kernel here: https://gthc.org/wiki/FreeBSD/OFDM_Kernel and I still think hardware OFDM is inherently insecure as-is in FreeBSD even if not everyone seems to agree or willing to debate the idea with strong arguments to prove the contrary. -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
OFDM kernel (Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?)
On 06/03/11 12:46 PM, Etienne Robillard wrote: > On 06/03/11 12:36 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >> On Sunday 06 March 2011 18:19:31 Etienne Robillard wrote: >> >> >>> On 06/03/11 11:58 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>> >>> >> >> >>> yes, the difference with 'software OFDM' and hardware OFDM - as in >>> run(4) - is the latter >>> exploits 'objects' and 'peoples' as subcarriers units with >>> "bi-directional data" when >>> software OFDM could be used to securely convert the raw ELF/VLF energy >>> input to >>> a external server (the Power Server).. >>> >>> could then this not require a security advisory for hardware OFDM devices >>> circulating in the wild to boost 802.11 'speeds' and 'ranges' ? >>> >>> >> Hi Etienne, >> >> I think you are reading too much into too little and that further discussion >> into the details you suggest is not appropriate for this list. I believe >> that >> developers on the -current list are serious people, wanting to remove >> problems >> in this world rather than create them. Exploits are possible when the >> developers are not given enough time to research good solutions. Maybe you >> want to support FreeBSD developers by donating some money via the FreeBSD >> foundation, so that we can do a better job, removing your fears of software >> exploits in interaction with humans :-) >> >> --HPS >> >> BTW: Our slogan is "The power to serve" and not "the power server" :-) >> >> > you must be kidding? this kind of security exploits should be not regarded > as friendly. However I'd like to see a FreeBSD based OFDM kernel to > allow conveying > ELF/VLF input stream to things like 'electricity'... > > Freebsd: the power to serve the world with free electricity! Isn't that > ironic? ;-) > > The more I let myself thinking about this possibility the more obvious it becomes. Sure I would like to see this project adopted by the FreeBSD foundation so that it becomes officialy supported in FreeBSD! :-) Any takers? Best, -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 12:36 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Sunday 06 March 2011 18:19:31 Etienne Robillard wrote: > >> On 06/03/11 11:58 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >> > >> yes, the difference with 'software OFDM' and hardware OFDM - as in >> run(4) - is the latter >> exploits 'objects' and 'peoples' as subcarriers units with >> "bi-directional data" when >> software OFDM could be used to securely convert the raw ELF/VLF energy >> input to >> a external server (the Power Server).. >> >> could then this not require a security advisory for hardware OFDM devices >> circulating in the wild to boost 802.11 'speeds' and 'ranges' ? >> > Hi Etienne, > > I think you are reading too much into too little and that further discussion > into the details you suggest is not appropriate for this list. I believe that > developers on the -current list are serious people, wanting to remove > problems > in this world rather than create them. Exploits are possible when the > developers are not given enough time to research good solutions. Maybe you > want to support FreeBSD developers by donating some money via the FreeBSD > foundation, so that we can do a better job, removing your fears of software > exploits in interaction with humans :-) > > --HPS > > BTW: Our slogan is "The power to serve" and not "the power server" :-) > you must be kidding? this kind of security exploits should be not regarded as friendly. However I'd like to see a FreeBSD based OFDM kernel to allow conveying ELF/VLF input stream to things like 'electricity'... Freebsd: the power to serve the world with free electricity! Isn't that ironic? ;-) -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On Sunday 06 March 2011 18:19:31 Etienne Robillard wrote: > On 06/03/11 11:58 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > yes, the difference with 'software OFDM' and hardware OFDM - as in > run(4) - is the latter > exploits 'objects' and 'peoples' as subcarriers units with > "bi-directional data" when > software OFDM could be used to securely convert the raw ELF/VLF energy > input to > a external server (the Power Server).. > > could then this not require a security advisory for hardware OFDM devices > circulating in the wild to boost 802.11 'speeds' and 'ranges' ? Hi Etienne, I think you are reading too much into too little and that further discussion into the details you suggest is not appropriate for this list. I believe that developers on the -current list are serious people, wanting to remove problems in this world rather than create them. Exploits are possible when the developers are not given enough time to research good solutions. Maybe you want to support FreeBSD developers by donating some money via the FreeBSD foundation, so that we can do a better job, removing your fears of software exploits in interaction with humans :-) --HPS BTW: Our slogan is "The power to serve" and not "the power server" :-) ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 11:58 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >> and finally I almost forgot... >> >> there seems to be another aspect of false security in OFDM design in >> what bi-directional IIP packets could be transfered out-of-band using >> ELF/VLF ranges >> and reverse FFT functions.. >> > > My point is that if you use, let's say "software OFDM", then what leaks is > then not important. Existing WLAN drivers can all be programmed for "software > OFDM" probably by modifying a few lines of code. Is that what you want to say? > > --HPS > yes, the difference with 'software OFDM' and hardware OFDM - as in run(4) - is the latter exploits 'objects' and 'peoples' as subcarriers units with "bi-directional data" when software OFDM could be used to securely convert the raw ELF/VLF energy input to a external server (the Power Server).. could then this not require a security advisory for hardware OFDM devices circulating in the wild to boost 802.11 'speeds' and 'ranges' ? Thanks, -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 11:46 AM, David Wolfskill wrote: > On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 11:31:00AM -0500, Etienne Robillard wrote: > >> On 06/03/11 09:49 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >>> OFDM is part of 11g, 11a, and 11n (2/5ghz.) >>> >>> I don't understand why you're asking about it in a security context. >>> >>> >>> Adrian >>> >>> >> Approaching security can be seen with onion paradigm: True paranoids >> will want >> to have multiple layers of security whether its physical or hardware >> related. In this >> case, one could ask reasonably whether its 'safe' to be close to a >> wireless router (802.11 ethernet-class) >> for a long-term period while OFDM is enabled at the transport level. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Etienne >> >> ___ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" >> > As various folks have tried to point out to you: > > * OFDM is a modulation technique that all RF devices of certain types > must not only support, but use, in order to work (as the specifications > for their use require the use of OFDM). > > * As such, this has nothing to do with FreeBSD at all, and is therefore > off-topic for thr FreeBSD.org technical mailing lists, of which > freebsd-current@freebsd.org is one. > > A non-technical mailing list at FreeBSD.org is > freebsd-c...@freebsd.org, in case you insist on carrying on this > off-topic thread on a FreeBSD.org mailing list. > > In my opinion, however, you, as well as anyone interested in the > topic, would be better served by moving the discussion to a venue for > which it would be on-topic. I cannot identify such a venue for you, > but readily confirm that there is no FreeBSD.org mailing list that > satisfies the requirement. > > Finally, I am sending this note off-list because not only is the thread > off-topic for the venue, but this message (in particlar) has nothing to > do with FreeBSD, either. > > Please honor the reqwest to move the thread. > > Further attempts to post to a technical FreeBSD.org list on this thread > will be treated as spam. > > Peace, > david (current hat: postmas...@freebsd.org) > hey this was kinda impolite and unecessary. Please don't disrupts the thread whenever you don't agree with and because you have authority! Thanks, Etienne -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 11:31 AM, Etienne Robillard wrote: > On 06/03/11 09:49 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> OFDM is part of 11g, 11a, and 11n (2/5ghz.) >> >> I don't understand why you're asking about it in a security context. >> >> >> Adrian >> >> > and finally I almost forgot... there seems to be another aspect of false security in OFDM design in what bi-directional IIP packets could be transfered out-of-band using ELF/VLF ranges and reverse FFT functions.. -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 09:49 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > OFDM is part of 11g, 11a, and 11n (2/5ghz.) > > I don't understand why you're asking about it in a security context. > > > Adrian > Approaching security can be seen with onion paradigm: True paranoids will want to have multiple layers of security whether its physical or hardware related. In this case, one could ask reasonably whether its 'safe' to be close to a wireless router (802.11 ethernet-class) for a long-term period while OFDM is enabled at the transport level. Thanks, Etienne ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
I'm no expert in Wifi or in FFT so I'm forwarding your reply to the list hoping someone with experience with FFT could share lights on OFDM uses of FFT functions below the 30khz range... In other words could FreeBSD be used to control the electromagnetic energy input from out-of-band VLF/ELF waves ? Thanks, On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 10:38:30AM -0500, Etienne Robillard wrote: > my best bet is that VLF/ELF frequencies are using FFT (Fast Fourier > Transform) algorithm to increase compression ratio of WLAN devices No. FFT has nothing to do with this. FFT is a mathematical transform. Nothing more, nothing less. > your post mentioned ELF/VLF radiation, thats electromagnetic waves the > frequency range below 30kHz. > > How should a modulation scheme (OFDM) used in the 2.4/5GHz range be > related to radiation in such a low frequency band? It is not. A modulation scheme can be used at any frequency. Nothing to do with the frequency itself. - Diane -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
. > https://gthc.org/investigations/OFDM/72_armstrong_ofdm.pdf > > That paper is a basic paper. COFDM is being used just about everywhere now. > OFDM was used in the Telebit modems of years gone by. To this day > (last I checked) it is superiour to the v32.bis format used today on > third world phone lines, because of its ability to ignore dead spots > in the frequency spectrums used. > > ... > Reference(s) please? >> I'm worried from a amateur computer scientist point-of-view about the >> harmfulness >> of EMF fields; in particular the ELF/VLF frequencies as defined in OFDM, >> for operating WLAN devices as 'ethernet-class subcarriers'.. >> > I personally would not worry about DSL and ethernet. The fields are > self cancelling due to the twisted pair. It's a transmission line. > I do worry much more about cell phone and wifi signals. I advise others > not to use cellphones for long periods of time without a remote earpiece. > (And of course, do likewise). Cell phone towers provided they are up high > enough do not bother me. Keep in mind the inverse square law here. > I would also suggest you look for the papers on double blind studies of > so-called RF sensitive individuals. (ES) I am very sceptical personally > of the effects. That said, I would not want to be within the near field > of any high power transmitter. This is why broadcast stations have > fences around their antennas and warning signs. The high power stuff > is dangerous. > > Its not phone lines who are the main issue, rather the radiation levels of OFDM ethernet class devices (including USB devices and routers) using ELF/VLF frequencies below 30khz as per the newer 802.11(ng) drafts... ;-) -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
I would appreciate if you try not to disrupt this thread anymore on freebsd-current. Thank you. On 06/03/11 10:42 AM, Diane Bruce wrote: > I've moved this off of freebsd-current into private e-mail folks. > > >> Twisted pair? Sorry I don't understand this... Wireless USB dongles are >> > ... > >> This is out-of-scope but I respect your opinion to call me a name attempting >> > It is not an ad hominem when it is factually true. > > These are not chemical trails you are seeing. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory > You are a nutter if you believe they are chemical trails. QED > > P.S. Have you noticed the colours from a sprinkler in the Sun? > > (I will not reply to any more postings about this on freebsd-current) > - Diane (VA3DB) > -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
I've moved this off of freebsd-current into private e-mail folks. > > Twisted pair? Sorry I don't understand this... Wireless USB dongles are ... > This is out-of-scope but I respect your opinion to call me a name attempting It is not an ad hominem when it is factually true. These are not chemical trails you are seeing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory You are a nutter if you believe they are chemical trails. QED P.S. Have you noticed the colours from a sprinkler in the Sun? (I will not reply to any more postings about this on freebsd-current) - Diane (VA3DB) -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Fwd: Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
my best bet is that VLF/ELF frequencies are using FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) algorithm to increase compression ratio of WLAN devices operating with OFDM-enabled hardware. If that is true then not all WLAN devices can do OFDM thus explaining why you could use 802.11g without it... Original Message Return-Path: X-Original-To: e...@gthcfoundation.org Delivered-To: e...@gthcfoundation.org Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com (mail-fx0-f42.google.com [209.85.161.42]) by gthcfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F93B9C488 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 15:33:37 + (UTC) Received: by fxm20 with SMTP id 20so3451200fxm.29 for ; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 07:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.106.1 with SMTP id v1mr3580291fao.21.1299425606490; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 07:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.20] (pD9FCB6B4.dip.t-dialin.net [217.252.182.180]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm545591fak.47.2011.03.06.07.33.24 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 06 Mar 2011 07:33:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4d73a943.90...@abitos.org> Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 16:33:23 +0100 From: Tobias Blersch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: e...@gthcfoundation.org Subject: Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD? References: <4d7398c6.8030...@gthcfoundation.org> <201103061533.32138.hsela...@c2i.net> <4d73a085.4030...@gthcfoundation.org> <20110306151548.gb29...@night.db.net> <4d73a74a.7040...@gthcfoundation.org> In-Reply-To:<4d73a74a.7040...@gthcfoundation.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, your post mentioned ELF/VLF radiation, thats electromagnetic waves the frequency range below 30kHz. How should a modulation scheme (OFDM) used in the 2.4/5GHz range be related to radiation in such a low frequency band? Tobias ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
> No. It's twisted pair so will not radiate that far, it's not an antenna. > DSL is sent via twisted pair as well and should not radiate very far. Twisted pair? Sorry I don't understand this... Wireless USB dongles are being operating as EMF/RF devices and forcingly will radiate with objects close to the carrier... > Your link should have been: > https://gthc.org/investigations/OFDM/72_armstrong_ofdm.pdf > > Thats correct link sorry for the confusion :-) > Oh dear oh dear. > > https://gthc.org/investigations/chemtrails-volume2/ > > You are one of 'those'. You are one of the conspiracy nutters. > > I think this guy should be blocked from this list. > > - Diane (VA3DB) > This is out-of-scope but I respect your opinion to call me a name attempting to shed some lights on the security aspect of implict uses of OFDM in FreeBSD... :-) -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 09:56:05AM -0500, Etienne Robillard wrote: > On 06/03/11 09:33 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > On Sunday 06 March 2011 15:23:02 Etienne Robillard wrote: > > .. > > Yes, from a security perspective, could radiance from ELF/VLF operating > devices as > "ethernet-class subcarriers" which is part of the OFDM spec be > considered harmful? No. It's twisted pair so will not radiate that far, it's not an antenna. DSL is sent via twisted pair as well and should not radiate very far. > > if not is there any OFDM code in OpenBSD? It's in the hardware not BSD. You could also look at gnuradio. Your link should have been: https://gthc.org/investigations/OFDM/72_armstrong_ofdm.pdf > Company: Green Tea Hackers Club > Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) > E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org > Work phone: 450-936-2123 > Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ > Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ > PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 > DDEC > > During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary > act. -- George Orwell Oh dear oh dear. https://gthc.org/investigations/chemtrails-volume2/ You are one of 'those'. You are one of the conspiracy nutters. I think this guy should be blocked from this list. - Diane (VA3DB) -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 03:33:32PM +0100, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Sunday 06 March 2011 15:23:02 Etienne Robillard wrote: > > Hi, as the subject line implies, can someone explains why OFDM (Orthogonal > > Frequency Division Multiplexing) is required for running run(4) ? Is there > > any (safer) alternative to OFDM? Orthogonal Frequency Domain Multiplexing (OFDM) Is simply the transmission of multiple carriers in one spectrum. It is used for DSL modems for example. Each carrier contributes a portion of the bandwidth. Coded Orthogonal Frequency Domain Multiplexing is a newer form of OFDM where the signals are coded to minimise interference with other carriers. Look for articles on COFDM Here is one such that looks pretty complete. http://www.andreas-schwope.de/ ASIC_s/Schnittstellen/Data_Lines/body_multiplexing.html This is a nice article as well: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/cofdm.htm > > > > If not, could the FreeBSD security team verify the the safety of OFDM > > derived > > drivers (in particular wireless ethernet based nics) so that no ones get > > hurt being > > a WLAN (802.11ng ethernet-class) subcarrier ? Security is not a problem. COFDM is a hardware level transmission layer 1 and some layer 2. Amusingly OFDM is a form of spread spectrum which originally had military uses, it's harder to jam or decrypt. > > As per my knowledge OFDM is a carrier format which is handled by the > hardware. > Is there anything in particular you want to high-light? Yep. I think they are worried about the encryption (WEP vs. WMA etc.). > --HPS - Diane (VA3DB) -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 10:01 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > OpenBSD has driver support for OFDM chips. Anything that speaks 11a, 11g or > 11n == OFDM. > > You'd have to speak to an RF related person about your definition of > harmful. I mean, think about it - 802.11 devices are supposed to give off > EMR that a receiver can decode. So your question about whether OFDM being > harmful requires more context, as unlike wired solutions (say wired > ethernet) which may give off EMR which could then be snooped, 802.11 is > supposed to be received through EMF. :) > > Also, that paper you referenced talks about ERLANG, it doesn't mention OFDM > anywhere. > > HTH, > > > Adrian > > Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing: https://gthc.org/investigations/OFDM/72_armstrong_ofdm.pdf @Diane: I'm worried from a amateur computer scientist point-of-view about the harmfulness of EMF fields; in particular the ELF/VLF frequencies as defined in OFDM, for operating WLAN devices as 'ethernet-class subcarriers'.. Kind regards, -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
OpenBSD has driver support for OFDM chips. Anything that speaks 11a, 11g or 11n == OFDM. You'd have to speak to an RF related person about your definition of harmful. I mean, think about it - 802.11 devices are supposed to give off EMR that a receiver can decode. So your question about whether OFDM being harmful requires more context, as unlike wired solutions (say wired ethernet) which may give off EMR which could then be snooped, 802.11 is supposed to be received through EMF. :) Also, that paper you referenced talks about ERLANG, it doesn't mention OFDM anywhere. HTH, Adrian On 6 March 2011 22:56, Etienne Robillard wrote: > On 06/03/11 09:33 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > On Sunday 06 March 2011 15:23:02 Etienne Robillard wrote: > > > >> Hi, as the subject line implies, can someone explains why OFDM > (Orthogonal > >> Frequency Division Multiplexing) is required for running run(4) ? Is > there > >> any (safer) alternative to OFDM? > >> > >> If not, could the FreeBSD security team verify the the safety of OFDM > >> derived > >> drivers (in particular wireless ethernet based nics) so that no ones get > >> hurt being > >> a WLAN (802.11ng ethernet-class) subcarrier ? > >> > > As per my knowledge OFDM is a carrier format which is handled by the > hardware. > > Is there anything in particular you want to high-light? > > > > --HPS > > > > > Yes, from a security perspective, could radiance from ELF/VLF operating > devices as > "ethernet-class subcarriers" which is part of the OFDM spec be > considered harmful? > > if not is there any OFDM code in OpenBSD? > > Cheers, > > > references: > > 1. Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM) > https://gthc.org/investigations/pub/armstrong.pdf > > > > -- > > Etienne Robillard > > Company: Green Tea Hackers Club > Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) > E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org > Work phone: 450-936-2123 > Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ > Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ > PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 > A086 DDEC > > During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary > act. -- George Orwell > > If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few > who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy > > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On 06/03/11 09:33 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Sunday 06 March 2011 15:23:02 Etienne Robillard wrote: > >> Hi, as the subject line implies, can someone explains why OFDM (Orthogonal >> Frequency Division Multiplexing) is required for running run(4) ? Is there >> any (safer) alternative to OFDM? >> >> If not, could the FreeBSD security team verify the the safety of OFDM >> derived >> drivers (in particular wireless ethernet based nics) so that no ones get >> hurt being >> a WLAN (802.11ng ethernet-class) subcarrier ? >> > As per my knowledge OFDM is a carrier format which is handled by the > hardware. > Is there anything in particular you want to high-light? > > --HPS > Yes, from a security perspective, could radiance from ELF/VLF operating devices as "ethernet-class subcarriers" which is part of the OFDM spec be considered harmful? if not is there any OFDM code in OpenBSD? Cheers, references: 1. Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM) https://gthc.org/investigations/pub/armstrong.pdf -- Etienne Robillard Company: Green Tea Hackers Club Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org Work phone: 450-936-2123 Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 A086 DDEC During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
OFDM is part of 11g, 11a, and 11n (2/5ghz.) I don't understand why you're asking about it in a security context. Adrian On 6 March 2011 22:23, Etienne Robillard wrote: > Hi, as the subject line implies, can someone explains why OFDM (Orthogonal > Frequency Division Multiplexing) is required for running run(4) ? Is there > any (safer) alternative to OFDM? > > If not, could the FreeBSD security team verify the the safety of OFDM > derived > drivers (in particular wireless ethernet based nics) so that no ones get > hurt being > a WLAN (802.11ng ethernet-class) subcarrier ? > > > > > -- > Etienne Robillard > > Company: Green Tea Hackers Club > Occupation: Software Developer (and CEO) > E-mail: e...@gthcfoundation.org > Work phone: 450-936-2123 > Website (Company): https://gthc.org/ > Website (Blog): https://gthc.org/blog/ > PGP public key fingerprint:F2A9 32EA 8E7C 460F 1728 A1A7 649C 7F17 > A086 DDEC > > During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary > act. -- George Orwell > > If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few > who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy > > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can somebody explains OFDM in FreeBSD?
On Sunday 06 March 2011 15:23:02 Etienne Robillard wrote: > Hi, as the subject line implies, can someone explains why OFDM (Orthogonal > Frequency Division Multiplexing) is required for running run(4) ? Is there > any (safer) alternative to OFDM? > > If not, could the FreeBSD security team verify the the safety of OFDM > derived > drivers (in particular wireless ethernet based nics) so that no ones get > hurt being > a WLAN (802.11ng ethernet-class) subcarrier ? As per my knowledge OFDM is a carrier format which is handled by the hardware. Is there anything in particular you want to high-light? --HPS ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
