Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sergey Babkin writes: >If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we >can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" >unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? Why on _earth_ would we make it so hard for people to get hold of a media copy of FreeBSD, when absolutely nothing prevents me or anybody else from rolling a net distribution ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Failing kernel build..text this time.
speedracer# make install chflags noschg /kernel mv /kernel /kernel.old install -c -m 555 -o root -g wheel -fschg kernel /kernel if [ -d /modules -a -n "`ls /modules`" ]; then mkdir -p /modules.old; cp -p /modules/* /modules.old; fi; cd ../../modules && env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/nos/src/sys/compile/www/modules make install ===> accf_data install -c -o root -g wheel -m 555 accf_data.ko /modules install: accf_data.ko: No such file or directory *** Error code 71 Stop in /nos/src/sys/modules/accf_data. *** Error code 1 Stop in /nos/src/sys/modules. *** Error code 1 Stop in /nos/src/sys/compile/www. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Failing kernel build 4.3R
Whilst trying to compile a kernel, I run into these types of errors. I havent touched anything to do with any modules..but its failing. Ideas why? Thanks! __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 07:59:12PM -0400, Sergey Babkin wrote: > If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? I don't think this is a good idea. The foundation can give a certain CD vendor official status without limiting the rest. This is how things were in the past, and it seemed OK to me. For example, I occasionally bought the "offical" CD set from whoever was selling it. I could get it much cheaper elsewhere, but wanted to contribute money from time to time to help the project and the vendors who supported it. However, I didn't want to pay that much for CDs of the minor updates, so I usually got those from Cheap Bytes, or got a friend with fast network access to get it for me. As a FreeBSD user, I found this a useful way of doing business. Will a company like Cheap Bytes really do that much damage to the "official" vendor? The only thing I'm concerned with _as_a_user_, is that anyone who distributes CDs uses what the core team supports as "being FreeBSD". I'd hate to see someone roll their own and call it FreeBSD. -- "The determined programmer can write a FORTRAN program in any language." __ Charles Shannon Hendrix s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
FW: gdb debugging tips
Not sure if this is hackers@ material but since it is FreeBSD- related and is probably something people on this can do in their sleep I'm forwarding this here after no response on chat. - Forwarded message from Steve Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - I've been having problems with a software package for which I only have a binary with no debugging symbols. In talking to the folks that wrote the software I know what arguments the routine takes I just need to be able to see them in the debugger. Here's what I've done: Fire up the program. Attach to the pid of the running process with 'gdb lsv 10336'. I've set the breakpoint at the routine that I'm interested in 'break LH2P' and I've coerced the program to run to the breakpoint. Here's where I'm lost. I'm back in gdb and it is waiting for me to tell it what to do. I know the function LH2P takes one argument a 'char *'. How do I view a function's arguments? With debugging symbols this is as easy as 'where'. I figured 'info args' would be the ticket but all it says is 'No symbol table info avialable'. Now I'm betting the information from 'info frame' is the key but how to decipher it. Thanks. -steve - End forwarded message - To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
From: Sergey Babkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:59:12 -0400 > If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? I think that creates a rather significant tie to the foundation that currently does not exist and may not even want to exist. The foundation currently operates with a good deal of autonomy, after all, and its founders apparently like it that way. The foundation is not beholden to core or anyone but its officers, and folks just have to trust them to do the right thing. Which is as it should be. Any closer ties would probably create more problems than they were potentially designed to solve. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: [FLUFF] subr_figlet.c, some assembly required.
From: Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [FLUFF] subr_figlet.c, some assembly required. Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 18:45:41 -0700 > http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/subr_figlet.diff Cute, but why isn't it written in forth?! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
From: Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:28:18 -0700 > What's likely to happen if we let it is that a number of entities will > publish verbatim copies of the "officially produced" ISO images, and > do so at production cost + some profit margin which only feeds back > into their own pockets. Well, you're making several assumptions here, some of which may or may not be true by the time 4.4 is ready to go to press: 1. That the "officially produced" ISO images aren't already done with 100% volunteer labor and hence, in the strictest sense of the word, the property of the project and not any one company who didn't actually invest in those 5 images (they may invest in some other value-add, but that's to judge an unknown quantity right now). 2. That whomever's doing the "officially produced" ISO images will, indeed, be funneling any profits back to the FreeBSD Foundation or through some other donation vehicle they work out. This has always been done on the honor system in the past, and that's a lot easier to arrange and keep going with a small company. Large companies sign contracts and have lots of lawyers around when they enter into agreements like this, on the other hand, and that's something which has traditionally mitigated against successful negotations of this nature. We'll have to see. > facilities like, say, CheapBytes could do this more cheaply than > someone like, say, DaemonNews, the latter will find it very hard to > compete without losing money unless they can feed off of some kind of > "preferred vendor" status. Entities which are more friendly to the Well, based at least on the reaction I got from the other assembled developers at USENIX, I tend to think that having a "preferred vendor" has fallen somewhat out of fashion with the project. I don't think anyone wants to get burned by the perception of having too close a tie with anyone in the future, to say nothing of the wide-spread rumor mongering about "the project dying" that starts up every time any company even remotely connected with the project has difficulties, and I think it's now encumbent on this project to demonstrate that it's bigger than any one relationship and will, at worst, merely lose some replaceable assets if one goes away. > I also don't think people should be thinking about terminating (or > even greatly weakening) the CD distribution relationship with WRS; > they're still a big potential funding resource, even if their current > FreeBSD sales channel sucks. Again, I think whether the distribution relationship is strong or weak in the future depends a lot more on WRS (or anyone else in the same position) than it depends on anything the project does now. The best the project can do is operate in the general interest and try for "optimum separation" between it and any 3rd party, where optimum is the right balance between cooperation and independence, both actual and perceived. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
[FLUFF] subr_figlet.c, some assembly required.
For those of you that have too much time on your hands. http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/subr_figlet.diff You'll need to load a font before booting; load -t figlet_font .flf Now, for the complication; it's wrapping lines at a single character. If someone wants to work out why, I'd love to know so that I can finish the masterwork. 8) -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Yeah, and these all cost money, and are limited-appeal, so they're > likely to not make much money, especially if there are other vendors > doing similar things. The other side of the coin which I didn't > mention is that the FreeBSD distribution market probably isn't big > enough to support more than one or two vendors. To some extent that's > not our problem, unless they all collapse except for the bare-bones > vendors like CheapBytes who don't do anything to directly help the > project, in which case we've screwed ourselves out of funding. If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: register new device driver
I'm trying this on FreeBSD 4.2 Release. -Srinivas >From: Julian Elischer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Srinivas Dharmasanam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: register new device driver >Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:38:15 -0700 (PDT) > >what version of FreeBSD are you doing this on? >(it makes a difference) > > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Srinivas Dharmasanam wrote: > > > Hi, > > I used the /usr/share/examples/make_device_driver.sh to create a device > > driver in /sys/i386/isa and included my additions in the skeleton >provided. > > > > Now, I'm trying to call the mmap function with the "filed" argument >equal to > > that corresponding to this new device. > > > > Can you please let me know what else needs to be done to register this > > device in the kernel. > > > > Thanks, > > -Sri > > _ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: LIST_NEXT()
On 06-Jul-01 Peter Pentchev wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:48:26AM -0400, Evan Sarmiento wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list
>> searching for the right structure,
>> however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning
>> when I compile it:
>>
>> warning: statement with mo effect
>>
>> What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the
>> proc structure.
>>
>> Here's the code:
>> int
>> prfw_setflags(p, uap)
>> struct proc *p;
>> struct prfw_setflags_args *uap;
>> {
>> ...
>> if (uap->id) {
>> while (uap->id != p->p_pid)
>> LIST_NEXT(p, p_list);
>> }
>
> Well, first, you're using LIST_NEXT(), not SLIST_NEXT() :)
> Second, none of the *_NEXT() queue.h macros modify their parameters;
> they just return a pointer to the next element. So, just try:
>
> p = LIST_NEXT(p, p_list);
>
> ..and you'll be just fine.
However, you should be using pfind() to look up a process by pid.
--
John Baldwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/
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Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:28:18PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back > money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect > to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to > happen in an economically sustainable way. > FSL, I believe, are keen to keep up this tradition also (although I can't speak for what projects they will be supporting). Joe PGP signature
Re: Question about device driver
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Bhagyashri Bhagvat wrote: > I am new to this mailing list, and to the world > of device drivers. Not sure if this is the right place > for this question. Please, let me know if this is not > the right place. > I am developing a device driver for an ATM card, That's a pretty big first step :-) Feel free to use mine as a template, if you like: http://www.hodges.org/rh/code/if_idt.tar.gz > and need to develop a debug interface, like a console, > so that I can access the card from the host. Can I > integrate a character device driver with my ATM driver > to provide a debug interface? The network drivers don't behave like character drivers. For status only messages, you could add a few sysctl entries to enable verbose messages, or maybe export a small number of important values. Is it possible to work with a "stateless CLI"? You might set up a magic address that you can use to send network packets to, in order to talk to the driver :-) This would be a bit more involved with a statefull shell, but not impossible (you could keep state in mbufs, for example). What kind of ATM driver are you going to work on? Whatever it is, I will probably be very interested in your progress! All the best, -Richard --- Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. Product Manager | 769 Basque Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Carson City, NV 89706 775-886-6477| www.matriplex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 05:40:15PM -0400, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > > I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think there's very > > much money likely to be made in "value-add" CD distributions in the > > near future -- that requires hard work to add value, and that requires > > someone being paid to do it. > > The value-add may have nothing to do with the contents of the CD's. Consider > that having a well-run subscription service might be valuable, or perhaps > better physical packaging in other than the standard jewel boxes. > > Or adding some addition disks as part of the set of other useful software > or documentation. Perhaps providing sets of pre-built picobsd > distributions with floppy images? Maybe with hardcopy versions of > the handbook or other documentation. Or perhaps someone with > phone-in tech support to help people install, run and support FreeBSD. > > There's a number of different price points and and value propositions > you could shoot for. The tricky bit is finguring out which of the > alternatives people want. :-) Yeah, and these all cost money, and are limited-appeal, so they're likely to not make much money, especially if there are other vendors doing similar things. The other side of the coin which I didn't mention is that the FreeBSD distribution market probably isn't big enough to support more than one or two vendors. To some extent that's not our problem, unless they all collapse except for the bare-bones vendors like CheapBytes who don't do anything to directly help the project, in which case we've screwed ourselves out of funding. Kris PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
> I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think there's very > much money likely to be made in "value-add" CD distributions in the > near future -- that requires hard work to add value, and that requires > someone being paid to do it. The value-add may have nothing to do with the contents of the CD's. Consider that having a well-run subscription service might be valuable, or perhaps better physical packaging in other than the standard jewel boxes. Or adding some addition disks as part of the set of other useful software or documentation. Perhaps providing sets of pre-built picobsd distributions with floppy images? Maybe with hardcopy versions of the handbook or other documentation. Or perhaps someone with phone-in tech support to help people install, run and support FreeBSD. There's a number of different price points and and value propositions you could shoot for. The tricky bit is finguring out which of the alternatives people want. :-) louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 03:00:19PM -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:55:55PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Nothing BSDi ever did made any sense, so why does this suprise you? The fact > > that BSDi didnt nothing positive for FreeBSD doesnt surprise me at all. > > Luckily, with this post to the mailing list you can join the ranks of doing > nothing positive for the project. Congrats! > > In case you didn't know (which you probably don't, being an ignorant flamebait > poster and all), BSDi: employed many talented developers, funded or subsidized > various *BSD support events, donated hardware for *.FreeBSD.org, sent numerous > volunteer developers to conferences at zero or low cost, and distributed quite > a bit of hardware to developers who otherwise wouldn't have proper test > environments. Thats just to name a few things... > > WRS still is doing many of the things that WCCDROM/BSDi did for the project > and the ones that they've stopped doing should simply look like a good > opportunity to others who want to step up in the community. Well said. Kris PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:03:41AM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > We, for example, need to ask ourselves if there even should be an > "official" CD distribution of FreeBSD and, if so, what the selection > criteria for such officiality should be. I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think there's very much money likely to be made in "value-add" CD distributions in the near future -- that requires hard work to add value, and that requires someone being paid to do it. What's likely to happen if we let it is that a number of entities will publish verbatim copies of the "officially produced" ISO images, and do so at production cost + some profit margin which only feeds back into their own pockets. This means that if the larger CD distribution facilities like, say, CheapBytes could do this more cheaply than someone like, say, DaemonNews, the latter will find it very hard to compete without losing money unless they can feed off of some kind of "preferred vendor" status. Entities which are more friendly to the FreeBSD project (like DaemonNews) and who may want to donate a portion of the proceeds to the Foundation will have to take it out of their profit margins and will lose money relative to those that don't. In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to happen in an economically sustainable way. I also don't think people should be thinking about terminating (or even greatly weakening) the CD distribution relationship with WRS; they're still a big potential funding resource, even if their current FreeBSD sales channel sucks. As I've said in other messages, they're probably still in the stage where they're trying to integrate FreeBSD into their product line, and need customer feedback about how to improve their performance. Kris PGP signature
Question about device driver
I am new to this mailing list, and to the world of device drivers. Not sure if this is the right place for this question. Please, let me know if this is not the right place. I am developing a device driver for an ATM card, and need to develop a debug interface, like a console, so that I can access the card from the host. Can I integrate a character device driver with my ATM driver to provide a debug interface? If yes, how can I do that? Is there any other way of doing it? Any suggestions/pointers welcome. Thanks. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Installworld failure!
Hi, Ack, make installworld failed! The Makefile seems broken: Dionysus# make installworld mkdir -p /tmp/install.281 for prog in [ awk cat chflags chmod chown date echo egrep find grep install ln make makewhatis mtree mv perl rm sed sh sysctl test true uname wc zic; do cp `which $prog` /tmp/install.281; done usage: cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src target cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src1 ... srcN directory *** Error code 64 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. The cp command is being called incorrectly... Anyone got any suggestions? John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
RE: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:41:47 -0700 > >Times have clearly changed, however, and Walnut Creek CDROM is long > >and sadly gone. > > Jordan, I agree with most of what you say except for this. You disagree with me that Walnut Creek CDROM is gone? How odd. Well, if you'd like to confirm this with Bob Bruce, be my guest! It's finished, toast, pushing up daisies, gone to its reward, shuffled off it mortal coil, met its maker. This is an ex-CDROM company! > Since the core team seems to not know what to do with me, throwing > the stones at them isn't going to make much difference now, and I'm > used to getting in trouble anyway. Erm, why would you throw stones at the core team over this in any case? You think they had anything to do with it? Ted... I can only suggest that you increase the medication - this is a seriously pointless rant you're engaging in here and I honestly don't see the aim of it. > I have always disliked senseless destruction - and now in hindsight it > appears that the destruction of WC due to this BSD merger mania is > both senseles and inadvertant. No matter how much you sugarcoat it - > BSDi screwed over FreeBSD by acquiring Walnut Creek. You all have to face > that even though you may have all worked for them and been the ones to > make the mistake. I think you're suffering from a serious lack of knowledge at what went on behind the scenes, to say nothing of business in general, if you somehow think that everybody went into the merger with the aim of killing off Walnut Creek CDROM. WC was already in the process of slow collapse when the merger took place because whether you're willing to admit it to yourself or not, THE CDROM PUBLISHING BUSINESS SUCKS. Take a look at the number of CDROM vendors in the market place 2 years ago and compare it to the number you see today. Go to CompUSA or Fry's and check out how many Linux distributions you even see on the shelves now. We could all see the writing on the wall even then, and it was for the best of reasons that we decided to combine what were at the time the two most visible "BSD vendors" in an effort to stop competing with one another and try to formulate some sort of hybrid strategy that would let both companies survive by getting into areas like services and custom engineering as well as publishing. Did we succeed? No, obviously not. Did a lot of people suffer a lot more than you or FreeBSD did in the process? Absolutely yes. We put a lot of work into trying to make it fly and when it hit the ground, it was a great disappointment to many people. There are no "culprits" here, at least not on the Walnut Creek CDROM side, just some folks trying to make the best of a bad situation. If you want to blame BSDi's upper management then be my guest, but they won't know or really care much about that so I don't see what you'd hope to accomplish. > I SEE NOTHING to prove that the conditions that created WC's involvement > don't exist for another CDROM vendor to take it's place. Feel free! You want to learn about the CDROM publishing business and have the moral authority to be this sanctimonious? Go create a distribution and hawk it on the street corner. My posting made it more than clear that this sort of thing will be encouraged and you're perfectly welcome to show how this business model can be profitably sustained. > Was WC financially failing? If so why would BSDi take on more debt, that is > completely stupid. There were a lot of things done in the late 90's which matched that description. We started the merger before the bubble burst and there was VC money raining from the sky. Walnut Creek CDROM had never shown itself to be adept at dealing with VCs and the BSDi top management folks claimed they could get money simply by walking outside and opening an umbrella, so we grasped at that particular straw because our other options looked even more bleak. Of course, the bubble did burst and the VC money we would have used to make up various shortfalls never materialized, but if you want to indict us for being stupid then you should also point your fingers in a lot of other directions because people a lot smarter than we were also bet (and lost) on the same market horse. > Plenty of other CD distributors WERN'T failing and the > CD distribution model is going great guns today. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. > Do you really think that people would prefer to FTP the distribution > when they can pick up the phone, make an 800 call and have it > next-day shipped to them? And 3/4 of the time they just expense it > to their company so they pay nothing anyway? Now your talking about > FIVE ISO's, think of all the users that have problems getting even > ONE down. Not everyone out here has fast DSL and Cable - in fact > the majority don't. FINE. As I keep saying, put your money where your mouth all too visibly
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:55:55PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Nothing BSDi ever did made any sense, so why does this suprise you? The fact > that BSDi didnt nothing positive for FreeBSD doesnt surprise me at all. Luckily, with this post to the mailing list you can join the ranks of doing nothing positive for the project. Congrats! In case you didn't know (which you probably don't, being an ignorant flamebait poster and all), BSDi: employed many talented developers, funded or subsidized various *BSD support events, donated hardware for *.FreeBSD.org, sent numerous volunteer developers to conferences at zero or low cost, and distributed quite a bit of hardware to developers who otherwise wouldn't have proper test environments. Thats just to name a few things... WRS still is doing many of the things that WCCDROM/BSDi did for the project and the ones that they've stopped doing should simply look like a good opportunity to others who want to step up in the community. -- Bill Fumerola / [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps. even ignoring the improper punctuation, "didnt nothing positive" is improper English, in the future you might want to use a phrase like "did not do anything positive" or "did nothing positive". hope this helps. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: register new device driver
what version of FreeBSD are you doing this on? (it makes a difference) On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Srinivas Dharmasanam wrote: > Hi, > I used the /usr/share/examples/make_device_driver.sh to create a device > driver in /sys/i386/isa and included my additions in the skeleton provided. > > Now, I'm trying to call the mmap function with the "filed" argument equal to > that corresponding to this new device. > > Can you please let me know what else needs to be done to register this > device in the kernel. > > Thanks, > -Sri > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: register new device driver
Hi, I used the /usr/share/examples/make_device_driver.sh to create a device driver in /sys/i386/isa and included my additions in the skeleton provided. Now, I'm trying to call the mmap function with the "filed" argument equal to that corresponding to this new device. Can you please let me know what else needs to be done to register this device in the kernel. Thanks, -Sri _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
From: Don Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0600 > Given the lack of response from either WR or BSDCentral to my complaint > about the FreeBSD Desktop I just received, I think it is critical that > we establish an independent CD channel outside of WR's control. I have I don't think that anyone's debating that point at all. I would like to have _multiple_ channels of CDROM distribution, however, including companies in different countries and perhaps with different types of media (like DVD) or product objectives, like a desktop or server edition. As we learned with ftp.freesoftware.com, having a single point of failure leaves you swinging in the wind when unforseen circumstances pop up and just as we reacted to the FTP server going down by going to a multi-tiered, more fault tolerant model, so should we encourage multiple vendors. The days of giving people preferential treatment probably ended with Walnut Creek CDROM, we just hadn't really faced the fact until this happened. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
Well, those utilities are gone so we probably need to simply update the documentation and move on. :) - jordan From: David Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:30:42 -0700 > Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > o 4 "release ISOs" containing the usual base bits + packages. No > > Walnut Creek CDROM copyrighted material will be used, of course, > > though I've been gradually pruning that off over the last few > > releases anyway since it was largely all old and outdated DOS helper > > cruft (like view.exe) and I rather doubt that anyone has even > > noticed its absence. > > Some people at least will notice. From a post by S. Lafredo to > -questions a mere one week ago... > > "In handbook section 2.2.1.2 Before Installing from CDROM, there is a > reference to a install.bat and view.exe. I cannot find either of these > on the CD or the internet? Where do I obtain the install.bat and > view.exe file, so that I can put them on my MS-DOS boot floppy and > continue the installation?" > > David To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
> Given the lack of response from either WR or BSDCentral to my complaint > about the FreeBSD Desktop I just received, I think it is critical that > we establish an independent CD channel outside of WR's control. I have > always had great service when I (and people I have recommended it to) > have bought from DNMall. Bluntly, much better service than WC, even > before all these mergers/buyouts. My subscriptions were trashed several > times and it was always my fault even when it wasn't. > > I don't think we should ever have "the" official FreeBSD CD vendor, but > I support Chris as someone separate from WR. Of course, now that > O'Reilly's touting him as their 'open source editor', I worry about the > little penguin beak his nose is turning into ;-) Penguin beak? And I keep taking flack for pushing BSD in the Linux arena. :-) I have to finalize some arrangements, but we definately want to produce FreeBSD CDs starting with 4.4 We already offer subscription pricing, so we just need everyone to move their subscriptions over... I'll be making an official announcement soon. -Chris > -- > Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com > Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects > 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 > 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
In a message dated 07/06/2001 7:42:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Nobody from BSDi has EVER given any business justification for the BSDi > acquisition of Walnut Creek. If you look past all the "we are going out > to do great things in the future" press release crap - there's nothing. > Nothing financially justifying that is. > > Was WC financially failing? If so why would BSDi take on more debt, that is > completely stupid. Plenty of other CD distributors WERN'T failing and the > CD distribution model is going great guns today. If WC started failing due > to mismanagement - then let them die. Another vendor would take over quick > enough. > Nothing BSDi ever did made any sense, so why does this suprise you? The fact that BSDi didnt nothing positive for FreeBSD doesnt surprise me at all. Bryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
Jordan Hubbard wrote: > o 4 "release ISOs" containing the usual base bits + packages. No > Walnut Creek CDROM copyrighted material will be used, of course, > though I've been gradually pruning that off over the last few > releases anyway since it was largely all old and outdated DOS helper > cruft (like view.exe) and I rather doubt that anyone has even > noticed its absence. Some people at least will notice. From a post by S. Lafredo to -questions a mere one week ago... "In handbook section 2.2.1.2 Before Installing from CDROM, there is a reference to a install.bat and view.exe. I cannot find either of these on the CD or the internet? Where do I obtain the install.bat and view.exe file, so that I can put them on my MS-DOS boot floppy and continue the installation?" David To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > From: Chris Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Daemon News is still very interested in becoming the official FreeBSD CD > > vendor. I think a qualification of being an official vendor is donating a > > portion back to the project. The FreeBSD foundation needs to be funded. > > I think that's perhaps _a_ qualification, but from the end-user > perspective (and that's really what this thread is essentially about) > I think good customer service will count for a lot more. :) Only time > will tell about that, so I guess the question is whether or not Daemon > News wants to start replicating its own CDs come 4.4? > Given the lack of response from either WR or BSDCentral to my complaint about the FreeBSD Desktop I just received, I think it is critical that we establish an independent CD channel outside of WR's control. I have always had great service when I (and people I have recommended it to) have bought from DNMall. Bluntly, much better service than WC, even before all these mergers/buyouts. My subscriptions were trashed several times and it was always my fault even when it wasn't. I don't think we should ever have "the" official FreeBSD CD vendor, but I support Chris as someone separate from WR. Of course, now that O'Reilly's touting him as their 'open source editor', I worry about the little penguin beak his nose is turning into ;-) -- Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
From: Chris Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) > Daemon News is still very interested in becoming the official FreeBSD CD > vendor. I think a qualification of being an official vendor is donating a > portion back to the project. The FreeBSD foundation needs to be funded. I think that's perhaps _a_ qualification, but from the end-user perspective (and that's really what this thread is essentially about) I think good customer service will count for a lot more. :) Only time will tell about that, so I guess the question is whether or not Daemon News wants to start replicating its own CDs come 4.4? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
> > Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute > > FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out > > exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. Daemon News is still very interested in becoming the official FreeBSD CD vendor. I think a qualification of being an official vendor is donating a portion back to the project. The FreeBSD foundation needs to be funded. Chris Coleman Editor in Chief Daemon News E-Zine http://www.daemonnews.org Print Magazine http://magazine.daemonnews.org Open Packages http://www.openpackages.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: kernel panic when trying to use init's address space
> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:59:17PM +0200, Bernd Walter wrote: > > You are mmaping into the address space for the process you use the > > struct proc from. > > As long as it's this programm that is curproc everything is fine. Okay, I understand what the problem is. But what if I still want to simulate the syscall from the process which is not current ? Is it difficult to make kernel think that it's current process, how should it be done ? (Yes, I know this may look dumb, but still) Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: LIST_NEXT()
> Hello,
>
> I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list searching for
>the right structure,
> however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning when I
>compile it:
>
> warning: statement with mo effect
>
> What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the proc
>structure.
>
> Here's the code:
> int
> prfw_setflags(p, uap)
> struct proc *p;
> struct prfw_setflags_args *uap;
> {
> ...
> if (uap->id) {
> while (uap->id != p->p_pid)
> LIST_NEXT(p, p_list);
> }
>
> ...
> }
The proper way would be:
p = LIST_NEXT(p, p_list);
Regards,
Eugene
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Re: Proper use of select() parameter nfds?
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:58:00AM -0400, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > Greetings, > > I am going over the use of select() for a server I'm writing and I > *thought* I understood the man page's description for the use of the first > parameter, nfds. > > From MAN: > > The first nfds descriptors are checked in each set; i.e., the descriptors > from 0 through nfds-1 in the descriptor sets are examined. > > > I take this to mean that each descriptor set contains n descriptors and I > am interested in examining the first nfds descriptors referenced in my > sets. I also understood it to mean that nfds has absolutely nothing to do > with the actual *value* of a descriptor, i.e. the value returned by > fopen(), socket(), etc.. Is this correct thinking? What got me > second-guessing myself was a use of select() that seems to indicate that > you have to make sure nfds is larger than the value of the largest > descriptor you want checked. Here is the select() from the questionable > code (I can provide the whole function if necessary, it's not very big): > > if (select(conn->sock + 1, &input_mask, &output_mask, &except_mask, > (struct timeval *) NULL) < 0) Actually, this is the correct use. nfds should be larger than the value of the largest fd in the set, no matter how many fd's there are. > Is this improper use? conn->sock is set like this: > > /* Open a socket */ > if ((conn->sock = socket(family, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0) > > > Any clarification on how nfds should be set would be greatly appreciated. Maybe it would help if you thought of an fd set as of a bit array, with a '1' bit for each fd "in" the set, and a '0' for each fd not "in" the set. The nfds argument tells select(2) how far into the bit array to check for set bits. If you want to check fd's 0, 1 and 5, then nfds should be at least 6. For more information, I would suggest reading W. Richard Stevens' book "Unix Network Programming", vol. 1. G'luck, Peter -- You have, of course, just begun reading the sentence that you have just finished reading. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Proper use of select() parameter nfds?
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:58:00AM -0400, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > I take this to mean that each descriptor set contains n descriptors and I > am interested in examining the first nfds descriptors referenced in my > sets. I also understood it to mean that nfds has absolutely nothing to do > with the actual *value* of a descriptor, If you are interested in selecting on discriptors 0, 5, 9 and 13 then nfds should be 14. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: LIST_NEXT()
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:48:26AM -0400, Evan Sarmiento wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list searching for
>the right structure,
> however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning when I
>compile it:
>
> warning: statement with mo effect
>
> What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the proc
>structure.
>
> Here's the code:
> int
> prfw_setflags(p, uap)
> struct proc *p;
> struct prfw_setflags_args *uap;
> {
> ...
> if (uap->id) {
> while (uap->id != p->p_pid)
> LIST_NEXT(p, p_list);
> }
Well, first, you're using LIST_NEXT(), not SLIST_NEXT() :)
Second, none of the *_NEXT() queue.h macros modify their parameters;
they just return a pointer to the next element. So, just try:
p = LIST_NEXT(p, p_list);
..and you'll be just fine.
G'luck,
Peter
--
If I were you, who would be reading this sentence?
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Proper use of select() parameter nfds?
Greetings, I am going over the use of select() for a server I'm writing and I *thought* I understood the man page's description for the use of the first parameter, nfds. From MAN: The first nfds descriptors are checked in each set; i.e., the descriptors from 0 through nfds-1 in the descriptor sets are examined. I take this to mean that each descriptor set contains n descriptors and I am interested in examining the first nfds descriptors referenced in my sets. I also understood it to mean that nfds has absolutely nothing to do with the actual *value* of a descriptor, i.e. the value returned by fopen(), socket(), etc.. Is this correct thinking? What got me second-guessing myself was a use of select() that seems to indicate that you have to make sure nfds is larger than the value of the largest descriptor you want checked. Here is the select() from the questionable code (I can provide the whole function if necessary, it's not very big): if (select(conn->sock + 1, &input_mask, &output_mask, &except_mask, (struct timeval *) NULL) < 0) Is this improper use? conn->sock is set like this: /* Open a socket */ if ((conn->sock = socket(family, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0) Any clarification on how nfds should be set would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
LIST_NEXT()
Hello,
I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list searching for
the right structure,
however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning when I
compile it:
warning: statement with mo effect
What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the proc
structure.
Here's the code:
int
prfw_setflags(p, uap)
struct proc *p;
struct prfw_setflags_args *uap;
{
...
if (uap->id) {
while (uap->id != p->p_pid)
LIST_NEXT(p, p_list);
}
...
}
Thanks a lot.
Evan Sarmiento
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Re: Eric, you were right!
Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:03:24PM -0600, Don Wilde wrote: > > Looks like Eric Wayte was right in his premonition about Wind River > > screwing us over. Their freebsdmall website is now a link to something > > called BSD Central, and their phone box says 'Welcome to Linux > > Central' and of course nobody's in in Customer Service. > > > > I ordered a BSD Desktop direct from freebsdmall.com -- at full list -- > > because their (old) site claimed it would come with 4.3 CDs. Guess who's > > got another obsolete set of 4.1 CDs sitting on his hands? :-( > > I think people need to think twice before condemning WRS as Satan's > newest earth-bound franchisee; they've just bought a whole bunch of > assets and are no doubt still trying to figure out just what to do > with them. Polite feedback to the relevant people about what they > could do better may well work wonders :-) > Hi, Kris - Somebody else's comment relating WR to M$ is not totally off base. They've made their money sucking up our tax dollars through the military budget. I did send them a polite(r) message when I finally got to a WRS e-mail. They took over in April, and it's now July. Given that things used to work, I have little patience with people who can't _keep_ basic things working. They sure got their logos up on the site in a hurry! As for the future being dim, I agree with you. Not a chance! This is exactly the kind of situation FBSD needs to wean itself finally from dependence on any one company, as the response to Wes Peters' thread is showing. As for Jordan's departure to Apple, I think people need to remember that _he_ was the one who announce@'d the Release Schedule. Even if he isn't "it" any more, it doesn't sound like he will be out of the picture. I think it is very important that the Coordinator NOT be a Wind River employee, as tempting as that may be for short-term stability. The new Foundation sounds like the right mechanism at just the right nick of time. It is just as important to make sure that WR doesn't get the baby by fiat as it is that we don't let it go down the drain. -- Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
No Subject
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RE: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
>-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jordan Hubbard > >Times have clearly changed, however, and Walnut Creek CDROM is long >and sadly gone. Jordan, I agree with most of what you say except for this. Fortunately as I don't work for WC, BSDi, Apple, Microsoft or any of the BSD crew I can throw some needed stones here. Since the core team seems to not know what to do with me, throwing the stones at them isn't going to make much difference now, and I'm used to getting in trouble anyway. I can't sit back anymore and stand to see this gobbledygook thrown around and see the FreeBSD movement harmed by it. Understand I appreciate everything you guys do (and the book plug at USENIX didn't go unnoticed either) but this is very, very, very wrong. I have always disliked senseless destruction - and now in hindsight it appears that the destruction of WC due to this BSD merger mania is both senseles and inadvertant. No matter how much you sugarcoat it - BSDi screwed over FreeBSD by acquiring Walnut Creek. You all have to face that even though you may have all worked for them and been the ones to make the mistake. Everyone makes mistakes and we can all forgive for them - but it's unforgivable to have the culprits continue to pretend that no mistakes were made. I've yet to read of a single apology from the folks that started all this - all I've seen are apologies from WindRiver who had nothing to do with it. I SEE NOTHING to prove that the conditions that created WC's involvement don't exist for another CDROM vendor to take it's place. Are you saying that in hindsight the symbiosis beween WC and The FreeBSD Project was bad? And that we are better off now? With what?!?! So far all I hear is a bunch of unsatisfied CDROM customers justly complaining, a financial pipeline to the Project collapsing, in short a mismanagement of the entire FreeBSD CD distribution that is unreal. Nobody from BSDi has EVER given any business justification for the BSDi acquisition of Walnut Creek. If you look past all the "we are going out to do great things in the future" press release crap - there's nothing. Nothing financially justifying that is. Was WC financially failing? If so why would BSDi take on more debt, that is completely stupid. Plenty of other CD distributors WERN'T failing and the CD distribution model is going great guns today. If WC started failing due to mismanagement - then let them die. Another vendor would take over quick enough. It seems to me that far from failing, WC was the one making the money and for some hidden political machinations that nobody in the know has revealed that WC agreed to allow itself to be raped in order to prop up BSDi. Either that or it was the old bugaboo of BSDi seeing it's market being eroded by FreeBSD and so tried playing the old "Buy the competitor then kill their product distribution channel" game. Then, the combined company fell on it's face and WindRiver came in and picked up the pieces at a firesale and is dumping the bits they don't want - and what's left over of WC and it's ordering process is a bit that they don't want. Same old story of software acquisitions I've seen it plenty of times before in commercial software and now it's happening to us - or rather our CD distributor that was paying our way and the way of our servers. I read once that the main FreeBSD distribution server was on 3 DS3's - well that kind of bandwidth requires about $20,000 a month in my world - and is WindRiver going to support that expense when the CD distribution business has been ruined? Yeah right - tell me another story. Are you going to say that you would really think it better if the main FreeBSD server was throttled down to a T1 access and to get the ISO image that all users are going to have to screw with all of the different mirrors - and this at the same time that the CDROM business is in the toilet so that the only way to GET the new release in a timely manner is by FTP? Sounds great in the ivory tower - but explain this again to the admin that's frantically trying to get access to a mirror server at 10:00pm at night to get a file so he can bring back up his FreeBSD server that must be back in production tomorrow. Do you really think that people would prefer to FTP the distribution when they can pick up the phone, make an 800 call and have it next-day shipped to them? And 3/4 of the time they just expense it to their company so they pay nothing anyway? Now your talking about FIVE ISO's, think of all the users that have problems getting even ONE down. Not everyone out here has fast DSL and Cable - in fact the majority don't. I find it asinine that WindRiver is condemming the so-called messed up WC ordering mechanism - this is a mechanism that shipped a lot more product than they are doing now, in it's heyday. If that business was as screwed up as WindRiver is making it out to be then BSDi was run by morons when the
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:38:33PM +0200, Noses wrote: > In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jordan Hubbard) wrote: > > Yeesh, you'd think I'd announced my funeral by how some people have > > taken this whole Apple thing. :-) > > If so - where will the funeral be held and will there be Jordan soup for > sharing and grokking (although I'd prefer some other people to donate some > food)? > > > I sincerely hope they do, though I obviously can't do much from the WRS > > side of things now (not that I necessarily could before either). > > If they consider FreeBSD to be a product they accquired why should they turn > the trade mark over? I don't think that they think that they acquired FreeBSD. At least, their announcements seemed to specifically deny any such fears. G'luck, Peter -- This sentence is false. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jordan Hubbard) wrote: > Yeesh, you'd think I'd announced my funeral by how some people have > taken this whole Apple thing. :-) If so - where will the funeral be held and will there be Jordan soup for sharing and grokking (although I'd prefer some other people to donate some food)? > I sincerely hope they do, though I obviously can't do much from the WRS > side of things now (not that I necessarily could before either). If they consider FreeBSD to be a product they accquired why should they turn the trade mark over? Noses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
* Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010706 03:35] wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:47:21AM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > >You're assuming that not having Walnut Creek around is going to be > > >good for Linux Central, or good for FreeBSD? I personally wouldn't > > >give a bucket of warm spit for Linux Central's well being, but am quite > > >worried about the well being of FreeBSD in the near future. > > > > I agree, the future of FreeBSD does look dim right now. It is being > > developed, but not promoted and distributed with any kind of profession > > consistency. And that is a crying shame. > > Let's not go overboard here. Things can surely be improved, but I > wouldn't go so far as to call the future of FreeBSD "dim". You're missing the slashdot troll agenda, if anything these people live to call BSD's future "dim", in fact if Frank hadn't been so late to subscribe, I'm sure his first post would have been labeled as the same. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
From: Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:00:43 -0700 > Something that wasn't clear to me from Jordan's message to -announce > is whether he will continue to be the FreeBSD Release Engineer. Yeesh, you'd think I'd announced my funeral by how some people have taken this whole Apple thing. :-) I'm perfectly happy to keep doing the RE thing and so is Apple, so no worries there. I used to do them between the hours of midnight and 4am, back when I worked full-time for Lotus, but thankfully the process is rather more automated now and I can get to bed by 2am or so. Speaking of which... :-) > Concomitant to this is the need to transfer the FreeBSD trademark from > WRS to the FreeBSD Foundation (which should be possible now that the > latter actually has legal standing), which is apparently going to > happen but something we need to make sure *does* happen in the next > month or two. That's actually something the foundation needs to pursue since only its officers have the ability to make the transfer happen. I sincerely hope they do, though I obviously can't do much from the WRS side of things now (not that I necessarily could before either). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
From: Wes Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:55:25 -0600 > Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute > FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out > exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. We already discussed this during the FreeBSD developer's summit at USENIX - I don't think things are as dire as that, nor is "exclusive access" even in the cards for anyone at this point. I'll explain. I've wanted since almost the very beginning to release all the ISO bits since the work which went into creating them often came significantly from the FreeBSD.org community (people like Steve Price and the ports team, thanks guys!) and it's only natural that I'd want all of that to go back. Unfortunately, I was also beholden to folks like Walnut Creek CDROM and BSDi since they were also paying my salary and that of several other FreeBSD folks who were doing much of the other work involved with publishing CDs. They could lay fair claim to at least some of the release engineering work I and others there did, though on the plus side there was also a pretty good relationship between Walnut Creek CDROM and the FreeBSD Project which was clearly of mutual benefit in many ways. Walnut Creek CDROM took FreeBSD to trade shows, paid for various types of contract work to improve things, ran the ftp.freebsd.org FTP site, etc. etc. They were also a small outfit that was approachable and easy to deal with and the sole owner, Bob Bruce, clearly understood the open source community and was a definite fan who "got it" when it came to dealing with folks like us. To give him his just due, he was just as much a pioneer in the open source "industry" as we were and thus a rather long-running partnership was able to grow out of our many mutual interests. Times have clearly changed, however, and Walnut Creek CDROM is long and sadly gone. Whether what's taken its place turns out to be a good match for the FreeBSD project or not still remains very much to be seen, but perhaps that's simply a clear indication that now's as good a time as any to re-evaluate the way we deal with external relationships like this and not simply take continuity for granted. We, for example, need to ask ourselves if there even should be an "official" CD distribution of FreeBSD and, if so, what the selection criteria for such officiality should be. FreeBSD has always been a meritocracy and I see no reason why CDROM vendors should not be selected the same way - put the bits up for grabs and may the vendor with the best customer service and charming bedside manner win. That's assuming, of course, that the changing internet economy and proliferation of high speed access leaves room for anyone to make a business out of selling "straight media" without any significant value-add. All the more reason to take a wait-and-see attitude and simply not endorse any distribution until the sands stop shifting around and we see who's left standing and in what condition. Now that I'm also back to doing release engineering purely on my own time (not that Apple would have any publishing interest in the resulting product in any case), I'm free of any conflict-of-interest constraints and can simply make the whole ball of wax available for FTP. Why would anyone want a ball of wax? I have no idea. It's a figure of speach. Anyway, the following is what we initially came up with at USENIX for FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE. Nothing is frozen in stone here and it's all subject to user feedback, so let me know what you guys think of this: o FTP release, as usual o 1 "Mini ISO" containing just the ftp release bits and XFree86. Intended audience is just those folks who want a [relatively] small and convenient boot image without any packages or "extras" other than X. o 4 "release ISOs" containing the usual base bits + packages. No Walnut Creek CDROM copyrighted material will be used, of course, though I've been gradually pruning that off over the last few releases anyway since it was largely all old and outdated DOS helper cruft (like view.exe) and I rather doubt that anyone has even noticed its absence. o A full collection of packages and distfiles, not broken up in any way but at least syncronized with the release bits (again, pretty much what we already do today). This is intended for DVD media folks like FreeBSD Services Ltd to come and package up in their own way given the rather different constraints they have on media sizing. Also, when Wes said the following: > Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through > the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are I think he perhaps wasn't clear on the fact that I'll still be "shepherding FreeBSD through the release process" and working with many of the very same FreeBSD volunteers to organize the bits, there just won't be any "officia
Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog.
Just to throw some more fuel onto the fire, Thomas Dickey maintains his own version of dialog, which is derived from the same parent as the one in our tree, though somewhat divergent by now (mostly on the FreeBSD side from local changes/hacks, I think): ftp://dickey.his.com/dialog/dialog-0.9a-20010527.tgz Kris PGP signature
FreeBSD ISOs & redistribution [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral]
FWIW, On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:25:41AM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > I think that the conclusion is that "the project" should be putting out > five ISOs and making them freely available. Four of them would > correspond with the four discs that have traditionally made up the > commercial CD sets. The fifth one would be a mini-ISO that contains > everything needed to do a complete install, but now ports or packages > (basically, the existing disc 1 with no third party apps, except, > possibly, XFree86). This ISO would only be about 200-250MB in size, and > is more useful to the people who only download the ISO to do an install, > and use the net for packages/ports. I *really* like the idea of this small ISO. I don't know if those four ISOs should all be available, but that fifth one is a great idea. I always use the net for installing ports etc., but I like to keep a copy of a -RELEASE disc for reinstalls around. Right now I always download ~400mb too much :( > Third parties can then base their commercial distributions around these > ISOs. They might simply repackage them (on CD, or DVD). Or they might > provide value-add services, such as additional documentation, more packages > and so on. Maybe the infrastructure that's required to make the 4CD set should go into the repo, but not the ISO's themselves? (and yes, I know this is hard, and it's been argued before, re: what if Jordan gets hit by a bus...) If five ISO images are available, people *will* get confused about what is the right one to install FreeBSD, not to mention that people will (try to) download all four discs when they only need one (talk about waste of bandwidth). If the infrastructure is something like 'make release' then interested third parties can easily produce those four discs themselves. The hard part is getting the release process to that point. Or am I mistaking and is this already included? > The thorny question of "What do they have to include and still call it > FreeBSD?" is resolved by saying that any FreeBSD distribution must > include, as a minimum, the contents of the "mini" ISO (including > sysinstall). Anyone that wants to include an alternative installation > routine (open or closed source) can do, as long as sysinstall is still > there. Then the FreeBSD docs can continue to refer to sysinstall, and > the project doesn't get flack if someone puts together a distribution > with a crap installer, because sysinstall will always be there as a > fallback. Like I already stated above, this is a really good idea IMHO. --Stijn -- "I'm not under the alkafluence of inkahol that some thinkle peep I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: kern/28748: HARP may reject SVCs from certain ATM switches
Richard Hodges wrote: > > I just discovered an interesting bug in HARP that prevents SVCs > from working on a Xylan switch, and maybe others. The PR is > kern/28748, and it includes a detailed description of the > problem and a simple patch. > > Any takers? I have FreeBSD machines, and access to a Xylan switch (located in a Xylan/Alcatel lab with lots of network testing equipment) but no ATM interface for the FreeBSD machines. If someone would like to loan one, I will test and return it in the same condition I receive it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:47:21AM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > >You're assuming that not having Walnut Creek around is going to be > >good for Linux Central, or good for FreeBSD? I personally wouldn't > >give a bucket of warm spit for Linux Central's well being, but am quite > >worried about the well being of FreeBSD in the near future. > > I agree, the future of FreeBSD does look dim right now. It is being > developed, but not promoted and distributed with any kind of profession > consistency. And that is a crying shame. Let's not go overboard here. Things can surely be improved, but I wouldn't go so far as to call the future of FreeBSD "dim". > >Yes, all of the above are bad, and they're a sign of an even worse > >problem. FreeBSD has done well for the past 8 years due in large part > >because it an energetic and persuasive "product manager" in the person > >of Jordan K. Hubbard pushing, cajoling, and badgering the CD-ROM > >product through the arduous steps of production. Those who think > >this process happens on auto-pilot are deluded; it has to be baby- > >stepped through every time. > > He was a very unique member of the core team, and had a lot of salesman and > public relations savvy. His departure leaves a gaping hole in the project > as it now stands. However, it is my understanding that he was paid to do > just those sort of things. It would appear that the work he did out side > of release coordination would almost require a full time employee of the > project. And just to be clear, Jordan hasn't left FreeBSD, just changed employers. > What part did any of this play in Jordan's decision to go to Apple? Was it > that there was no day job at WRS? That is how I read his message of > resignation. WRS still employs a number of FreeBSD developers to work full time on FreeBSD; things aren't as bad as you seem to think, they're just more uncertain right now than some of us would like. Kris PGP signature
Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog.
- Original Message - From: Eric Melville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: lucky.freebsd.hackers Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:34 AM Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. > I'm currently working on libdialog, hopefully making the interface a bit > more sensible. I'd like to see what you're up too, hopefully we're not > duplicating efforts. Currently the plan is to commit this stuff in a day > or two. > I did and tested following: 1. DialogX and DialogY by default are equal to -1 and mean center of the screen as it should be, because 0 means left top corner of screen. 2. All boxes in libdialog analyse DialogX and DialogY, box size, and COLS and LINES. And there is problem, then sizes and positions of a box is corrected. 3. Almost completely print_autowrap() function was rewrittent. Now it correctly wraps words (even it works with box with width equal to 2 characters, and can work with width equal to 1 character, but I removed this feature). I a bit changed interface to this function: a line always is wraped if it has \n or \\n, if rawmode == 1, then \\n is outputed as two characters 4. dialog_msgbox() and dialog_gauge() were almost completely rewritten. Now, it's possible to pass empty prompt to these functions. In dialog_gauge() it is possible to pass prompt, which takes some lines. It understands any height of window and prompt is correctly wraped. 5. In dialog(1) I added --dialogx, --dialogy, --gauge, --fselect, --dselect, --noyes. Unfortunatelly --fselect has some bugs in implementation and has to be fixed, --dselect doesn't work propertly at all. Currently I try to fix dialog_inputbox(). Problems with size and position of box already are fixed. Now I want to make line_edit() function more better and fix problems with line size, unsafe strcpy() calls, etc. The problem which took a lot of time is really print_autowrap() function, which can broke ncurses window. So, some of parts in this function were completely removed and now it can work with any width and height of window. Unfortunately strheight() and strwidth() functions incorrectly work and can't tell expected width and height of window (it was before my modifications and it is now with my modifications). I hope that I don't forget something. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:55:25AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > If WindRiver gets on the ball and keeps fulfilling CD orders, why then this > > name might continue to be worth something. Otherwise, it will go away and > > the FreeBSD CD distributions will simply take place through other > > distributors. > > Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute > FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out > exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. This came up in discussions at Usenix between myself and several members of -core. I agree that the project needs a clearer distinction between releases made "by the project", and releases made by commercial third parties, such as Wind River, or the DVDs put out by FreeBSD Services Ltd (or the various distributions put together by other European and Japanese companies). I think that the conclusion is that "the project" should be putting out five ISOs and making them freely available. Four of them would correspond with the four discs that have traditionally made up the commercial CD sets. The fifth one would be a mini-ISO that contains everything needed to do a complete install, but now ports or packages (basically, the existing disc 1 with no third party apps, except, possibly, XFree86). This ISO would only be about 200-250MB in size, and is more useful to the people who only download the ISO to do an install, and use the net for packages/ports. Third parties can then base their commercial distributions around these ISOs. They might simply repackage them (on CD, or DVD). Or they might provide value-add services, such as additional documentation, more packages and so on. The thorny question of "What do they have to include and still call it FreeBSD?" is resolved by saying that any FreeBSD distribution must include, as a minimum, the contents of the "mini" ISO (including sysinstall). Anyone that wants to include an alternative installation routine (open or closed source) can do, as long as sysinstall is still there. Then the FreeBSD docs can continue to refer to sysinstall, and the project doesn't get flack if someone puts together a distribution with a crap installer, because sysinstall will always be there as a fallback. N -- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- PGP signature
Re: PC with two monitors
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 08:58:31AM +0300, Belial wrote: > I have PC with dual head video card (Matrox G450) which supports to > use both heads independently. I can attach to it two monitors or > monitor and tv. Also I can attach two mice(ps/2 and serial) and > two keyboards(ps/2 and usb). > > How I can use all that as two terminals in FreeBSD 4.2? > I mean I want to launch vim on first terminal and netscape on second > one for example. > > Is this possible? > May be somebody inserted two video cards in one PC? (two normal video > cards or first onboard and second normal) > I think it is the similar problem. I'm using 2 Matrox Millenium cards under FreeBSD. On one card VGA support is disabled and only one is running for textmode. I'm also using only one set of keyboard and mouse - but I asume it should be possible to use more under X. I can't speak for textmode with more than one card but X11 is running fine with more than one card - only the xinerama mode crashed while starting. > ps I have driver for G450 which fully supports my card under X 4.0.1 > with two monitors. But I don't know how I can divide control between > two pairs of input devices(mice and keyboards). You can define specific devices in the serverlayout section. It's described in the XF86Config manpage. You the start the X sessions giving the layout as a parameter. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] Usergroup [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral
At 12:55 AM 7/6/2001 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: >Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > > > If WindRiver gets on the ball and keeps fulfilling CD orders, why then this > > name might continue to be worth something. Otherwise, it will go away and > > the FreeBSD CD distributions will simply take place through other > > distributors. > >Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute >FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out >exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. Very bad! Detrimental to the life of the project. > > This in some ways is even more desirable because as long as > > Walnut Creek was around, there was no demand for FreeBSD distributions at > > places like Linux Central, thus those places didn't even carry it. > >You're assuming that not having Walnut Creek around is going to be >good for Linux Central, or good for FreeBSD? I personally wouldn't >give a bucket of warm spit for Linux Central's well being, but am quite >worried about the well being of FreeBSD in the near future. I agree, the future of FreeBSD does look dim right now. It is being developed, but not promoted and distributed with any kind of profession consistency. And that is a crying shame. > > Is it _bad_ for a Linux CD distributor to be selling FreeBSD copies? > > No, and it also gives the Project more advertising. > >But that's not what the situation is. Let's be truthful here, Ted, >and ask "Is it _bad_ for WRS to award exclusive distribution contracts >without the permission of the FreeBSD contributors? Is it bad for WRS >to award these to a Linux site, leaving one or more very interested >BSD distributors twisting in the wind? Is it _bad_ for WRS to simply >flush the long-standing distribution arrangements without any fore- >warning, leaving hundreds of people wondering where their orders are?" That certainly will kill a bunch of interest in FreeBSD real quick. >Yes, all of the above are bad, and they're a sign of an even worse >problem. FreeBSD has done well for the past 8 years due in large part >because it an energetic and persuasive "product manager" in the person >of Jordan K. Hubbard pushing, cajoling, and badgering the CD-ROM >product through the arduous steps of production. Those who think >this process happens on auto-pilot are deluded; it has to be baby- >stepped through every time. He was a very unique member of the core team, and had a lot of salesman and public relations savvy. His departure leaves a gaping hole in the project as it now stands. However, it is my understanding that he was paid to do just those sort of things. It would appear that the work he did out side of release coordination would almost require a full time employee of the project. >For very good reason, Jordan is no longer in a position to do this. We >as the FreeBSD community need to decide what we're going to do about >this, and we need to decide before another disastrous release cycle >happens. WRS does not have any legal standing to create such a closed >and exclusive distribution arrangement, FreeBSD is *our* product, not >theirs. *WE* need to decide what *WE* want to do about this, and move >along in an orderly fashion, or *WE* will lose the ability to do any- >thing about it. Exactly. But will this require legal action action as in cease and desist? As far as I can surmise without a financial backer as was WC this is going to be very difficult. CD production and distribution costs money for a variety of reasons. Until that CD run is sold and out of inventory, it is a dead weight loss. Someone has to have a financial interest to provide the up-front money for manufacturing the CD's, promotion, and getting them into the proper distribution channels or we are facing a very steep if not impossible climb. Linux only caught fire after the various organizations began putting together distros with some consistency ala, Slackware which was generally a child of WC I believe. It was the profit motive that moved it forward. What part did any of this play in Jordan's decision to go to Apple? Was it that there was no day job at WRS? That is how I read his message of resignation. >Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through >the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are >interested in producing and selling CDs, DVDs, etc of the "official" >FreeBSD distribution. And that will be difficult to find without some outside financial support for that person. They will need a lot of freedom to travel to show the flag at shows, make speeches to various critical groups, all of the things that Jordan could do while at WC. How many of us can actually get away from our day jobs on a consistent basis to do those necessary things? I am not trying to spread gloom and doom here, but to look at the perceived reality of how things used to be. Frank >I've directed replies to -hackers because this
Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD
Terry Lambert wrote: > > I think you'll find that Wes Peters has worked on a number > of them as well (one of his is now called "Intel InBusiness" > servers). My Internet Station ran VxWorks because we didn't have enough CPU budget for anything else, and because we were fighting political wars over a lot of issues back then. Later members of the InBusiness line, produced to my great astonishment, did use FreeBSD, but not the one that needed it the most -- the email server. > Most of us were extremely pissed off when /dev/random went > in and made 386 and 486 class hardware crawl on its knees, > since embedded systems have different requirements for > things like moving parts, heat dissipation, etc., than > general purpose computers posing as embedded systems. Trying to run any sort of SSL on a 486-class processor now is a losing game, wiping out two entire generations of processors. PCs are very expensive for such inexpensive computers. Now I'm working on a design that is powered by a 12-volt deep cycle battery and keep ending up with RTEMS or uClinux on the device because *BSD doesn't really do low-power (as in current draw) hardware anymore. I can base this project on an Atmel AT91 (ARM THUMB) or Motorola ColdFire cpu, load a pretty much standard uClinux or RTEMS build on it, and still be able to talk on the VHF, or I can run it on BSD and sell generators to go with it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
