Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Zaphod Beeblebrox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. Well... I hinted that a hammer port would be sufficient (although they need to finish their replication design) and I hinted that the hammer approach may be graftable to ZFS. Both reasonably large effort-wise (but probably within the scope of a single developer with sufficient time). No... you're so far off the mark it's not even funny, especially when it's been repeatedly pointed out to you. This is not a file system, it's a backup system. It's not designed to survive a disk crash or an accidental file deletion, it's designed to survive a direct missile strike on your colo center. To quote Wikipedia, CDP is a service that captures changes to data to a separate storage location - emphasis on separate. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Bakul Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. From their http://forum.r1soft.com/CDP.html page: [...] You completely missed the mark. I know what R1Soft's product is. What I want to know is what needs to be done to port it to FreeBSD. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HEADS UP: GCC 4.2.0 is coming
Good day.
Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 07:57:51AM +, O. Hartmann wrote:
Alexander Kabaev wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:07 -0400
Alexander Kabaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
HEADS UP: I will start importing GCC 4.2.0 bits in about one hour and
plan to finish in a couple of hours after that.
The src/ tree will be utterly broken meanwhile. I'll send an 'all
clear' message when done.
Done.
Just for those who aren't on the cutting edge: why gcc 4.2.0 and not
4.2.1 as it is used in 7.X?
It was the old message that slipped to the list due to some
misconfiguration of the mailing list software. Look at its
date -- it's more than one year old.
--
Eygene
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/ ' ` , __.--' # to read the on-line manual
)/' _/ \ `-_, /# while single-stepping the kernel.
`-' `\_ ,_.-;_.-\_ ', fsc/as #
_.-'_./ {_.' ; / #-- FreeBSD Developers handbook
{_.-``-' {_/#
pgpneOlMFm6XD.pgp
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Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Zaphod Beeblebrox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. Well... I hinted that a hammer port would be sufficient (although they need to finish their replication design) and I hinted that the hammer approach may be graftable to ZFS. Both reasonably large effort-wise (but probably within the scope of a single developer with sufficient time). No... you're so far off the mark it's not even funny, especially when it's been repeatedly pointed out to you. This is not a file system, it's a backup system. It's not designed to survive a disk crash or an accidental file deletion, it's designed to survive a direct missile strike on your colo center. To quote Wikipedia, CDP is a service that captures changes to data to a separate storage location - emphasis on separate. FWIW, the HAMMER file system _does_ support replication to remote targets (thus separate). Unfortunately they call this feature mirroring, which is misleading at best. It's really rather a replication mechanism, much like the binlog of MySQL. It can be used for various purposes, including live mirroring, delayed mirroring, archiving, backup and point-in-time recovery. Well, of course, all of that doesn't help us at all because HAMMER doesn't exist on FreeBSD. However, ZFS does exist on FreeBSD, and I think it wouldn't be impossible to add similar features to ZFS. Another possibility would be to extend gjournal by adding time stamps to journal transactions and a possibility to feed the journal to a pipe, socket or whatever. And of course a client-side implementation that does something useful with the journal stream. This might even be a good SoC project. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd File names are infinite in length, where infinity is set to 255 characters. -- Peter Collinson, The Unix File System ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TIME WARP! Re: HEADS UP: GCC 4.2.0 is coming
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 12:57 AM, O. Hartmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexander Kabaev wrote: On Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:07 -0400 Alexander Kabaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HEADS UP: I will start importing GCC 4.2.0 bits in about one hour and plan to finish in a couple of hours after that. The src/ tree will be utterly broken meanwhile. I'll send an 'all clear' message when done. Done. Just for those who aren't on the cutting edge: why gcc 4.2.0 and not 4.2.1 as it is used in 7.X? Regards, O. Sorry about that. I accidently revived a bunch of stuck email messages from our mailing list processing system. These messages from 2007 came back to life somehow. (Hint: Mailman's 'unshunt' command doesn't give a usage message) -- Peter Wemm - [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KI6FJV All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars - JMS/B5 If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution. -- Robert Sewell ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HEADS UP: GCC 4.2.0 is coming
Alexander Kabaev wrote: On Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:07 -0400 Alexander Kabaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HEADS UP: I will start importing GCC 4.2.0 bits in about one hour and plan to finish in a couple of hours after that. The src/ tree will be utterly broken meanwhile. I'll send an 'all clear' message when done. Done. Just for those who aren't on the cutting edge: why gcc 4.2.0 and not 4.2.1 as it is used in 7.X? Regards, O. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HEADS UP: GCC 4.2.0 is coming
On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 07:57:51AM +, O. Hartmann wrote: Alexander Kabaev wrote: On Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:07 -0400 Alexander Kabaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HEADS UP: I will start importing GCC 4.2.0 bits in about one hour and plan to finish in a couple of hours after that. The src/ tree will be utterly broken meanwhile. I'll send an 'all clear' message when done. Done. Just for those who aren't on the cutting edge: why gcc 4.2.0 and not 4.2.1 as it is used in 7.X? Take a close look at the date of the message you were replying to. It is somewhat old. (There seems to have been a mail-server hiccup somewhere.) -- Insert your favourite quote here. Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HEADS UP: GCC 4.2.0 is coming
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 07:57 +, O. Hartmann wrote: Alexander Kabaev wrote: On Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:07 -0400 ---^ Alexander Kabaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HEADS UP: I will start importing GCC 4.2.0 bits in about one hour and plan to finish in a couple of hours after that. The src/ tree will be utterly broken meanwhile. I'll send an 'all clear' message when done. Done. Just for those who aren't on the cutting edge: why gcc 4.2.0 and not 4.2.1 as it is used in 7.X? Looks like very outdated messages were delivered from spool. Regards, O. -- Vladimir B. Grebenschikov [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
llvm/clang early test
Hi all. Does anyone tried to build world with clang (devel/llvm-devel)? I just have tested clang on some code from our tree, gzip and bzip2 for example. Well... it works. Gzip compiled with clang become faster, bzip2 don't... Right now I'm playing with world making it compile with clang. If anyone doing the same thing we can share some thoughts and patches... -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
one answer... www.bakbone.com On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Zaphod Beeblebrox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. Well... I hinted that a hammer port would be sufficient (although they need to finish their replication design) and I hinted that the hammer approach may be graftable to ZFS. Both reasonably large effort-wise (but probably within the scope of a single developer with sufficient time). No... you're so far off the mark it's not even funny, especially when it's been repeatedly pointed out to you. This is not a file system, it's a backup system. It's not designed to survive a disk crash or an accidental file deletion, it's designed to survive a direct missile strike on your colo center. To quote Wikipedia, CDP is a service that captures changes to data to a separate storage location - emphasis on separate. FWIW, the HAMMER file system _does_ support replication to remote targets (thus separate). Unfortunately they call this feature mirroring, which is misleading at best. It's really rather a replication mechanism, much like the binlog of MySQL. It can be used for various purposes, including live mirroring, delayed mirroring, archiving, backup and point-in-time recovery. Well, of course, all of that doesn't help us at all because HAMMER doesn't exist on FreeBSD. However, ZFS does exist on FreeBSD, and I think it wouldn't be impossible to add similar features to ZFS. Another possibility would be to extend gjournal by adding time stamps to journal transactions and a possibility to feed the journal to a pipe, socket or whatever. And of course a client-side implementation that does something useful with the journal stream. This might even be a good SoC project. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd File names are infinite in length, where infinity is set to 255 characters. -- Peter Collinson, The Unix File System ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: llvm/clang early test
On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 04:29:46PM +0300, Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: Hi all. Does anyone tried to build world with clang (devel/llvm-devel)? I just have tested clang on some code from our tree, gzip and bzip2 for example. Well... it works. Gzip compiled with clang become faster, bzip2 don't... Right now I'm playing with world making it compile with clang. If anyone doing the same thing we can share some thoughts and patches... check this patch: www.vlakno.cz/~rdivacky/clang.patch I am playing with it as well :) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd.
ushasri tummala [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd? it depends I recommend _The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating Systems_ (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0201702452) or any good textbook on operating system design (e.g. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0136006639) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd.
Thank You Des for your reply. I am using Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating Systems. I just want to know how its(time between 2 mi_switch()) calculated and in which variable is it stored in the code.(FreeBSD 5.2 release) This is not addressed in text book. Thank You, Usha. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ushasri tummala [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd? it depends I recommend _The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating Systems_ (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0201702452) or any good textbook on operating system design (e.g. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0136006639) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:14 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zaphod Beeblebrox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. Well... I hinted that a hammer port would be sufficient (although they need to finish their replication design) and I hinted that the hammer approach may be graftable to ZFS. Both reasonably large effort-wise (but probably within the scope of a single developer with sufficient time). No... you're so far off the mark it's not even funny, especially when it's been repeatedly pointed out to you. This is not a file system, it's a backup system. It's not designed to survive a disk crash or an accidental file deletion, it's designed to survive a direct missile strike on your colo center. To quote Wikipedia, CDP is a service that captures changes to data to a separate storage location - emphasis on separate. Wow... thanks for the flame, but there's no reason that the device that is receiving the hammer replication couldn't be on the other side of the globe and there's no reason it couldn't be considered a backup. Part of the advantage of the structure that allows you to efficiently select for new changes allows you to do the same kind of *backup* as they claim. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: FWIW, the HAMMER file system _does_ support replication to remote targets (thus separate). Unfortunately they call this feature mirroring, which is misleading at best. It's really rather a replication mechanism, much like the binlog of MySQL. It can be used for various purposes, including live mirroring, delayed mirroring, archiving, backup and point-in-time recovery [thank-you for repeating that, BTW] However, ZFS does exist on FreeBSD, and I think it wouldn't be impossible to add similar features to ZFS. Possibly even as a ZFS module? This might be something better addressed at the ZFS project level --- but the next question is: does FreeBSD support ZFS modules? Another possibility would be to extend gjournal by adding time stamps to journal transactions and a possibility to feed the journal to a pipe, socket or whatever. And of course a client-side implementation that does something useful with the journal stream. This might even be a good SoC project. Now this interests me. Firstly, I thought that gjournal might only be responsible for the meta-data (but I'm happy to be wrong on this point). Secondly, is it a) sufficient and b) efficient to attempt to time-travel UFS with the gjournal log? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd.
-On [20081008 19:15], ushasri tummala ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I just want to know how its(time between 2 mi_switch()) calculated and in which variable is it stored in the code.(FreeBSD 5.2 release) This is not addressed in text book. What Dag-Erling meant to say, and if I recall correctly, a switch() is highly dependent on your hardware. So the time taken for a specific machine can be vastly different from another machine. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B Lead us to the place, guide us with your grace, to a place where we'll be safe... ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Shaun Amott wrote: On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 12:31:58AM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: so FreeBSD could be supported also. As you can imagine, it is not only important that data can be restored when a box hardware failure etc. it is also important that data can be restored if deleted by accidents etc. While traditional backup programs provide this functionality, you cant really go back to 10 min or 1h ago, often they take daily backups and have to scan whole filesystem for changed files every time the backup is taken which stresses out the systems. This can (more or less) be achieved with snapshots: you can cheaply maintain old versions of the file system, and mount an old snapshot at any time. Hourly is about as fine-grained as you can expect though. The documentation says one cant do more than 20 snapshots. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/snapshots.html Although 20 could be enough combined with a normal backup program. As far as I understand creating snapshots will consume disk space, and freeze the disk writes for a certain amount of time, every time (I read 5 seconds for 8GB system http://www.wave2.org/2007/10/08/mysql-snapshots-on-freebsd/ ) snapshot is created. The snapshots are stored in the local filesystem and it would require manually transferring the data to a remote machine. More importantly, as far as I understand, if the hard drive totally fails, there would be no way to restore a snapshot anymore unless we have a dump of the whole filesystem and first restore it and make sure everything is exactly at the right blocks in the drive. No? Although this probably could be worked out. In my opinion it requires a lot of work, Bbt thanks for the advice. Just that I would rather pay a small amount of fee and use Linux and use a continous backup software which works as easy as install and run. Which also provides utilities for easily recovering files or the whole filesystem or disk. Thanks again for pointing out snapshots. It is more or less suitable :) Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Outback Dingo wrote: one answer... www.bakbone.com http://www.bakbone.com Unfortunately if you check their compatibility matrix you can see that I have to use Linux to be able to do CDP :) http://www.bakbone.com/docs/NetVault_Backup_Supported_Platforms_October_2008.pdf or am I reading this wrong? Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:14 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zaphod Beeblebrox [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. Well... I hinted that a hammer port would be sufficient (although they need to finish their replication design) and I hinted that the hammer approach may be graftable to ZFS. Both reasonably large effort-wise (but probably within the scope of a single developer with sufficient time). No... you're so far off the mark it's not even funny, especially when it's been repeatedly pointed out to you. This is not a file system, it's a backup system. It's not designed to survive a disk crash or an accidental file deletion, it's designed to survive a direct missile strike on your colo center. To quote Wikipedia, CDP is a service that captures changes to data to a separate storage location - emphasis on separate. Wow... thanks for the flame, but there's no reason that the device that is receiving the hammer replication couldn't be on the other side of the globe and there's no reason it couldn't be considered a backup. Part of the advantage of the structure that allows you to efficiently select for new changes allows you to do the same kind of *backup* as they claim. Wouldnt that device need to keep the whole filesystem? Like if you have 10 machines with 10x 1GB drives (lets say each used about 250gb), you will need 10TB disk space in the backup server? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Thanks again for pointing out snapshots. It is more or less suitable :) I'll just warn you that if you're planning to use snapshots for your own purposes, to first do an extensive stress test on a non-critical machine with backed up data. I've had a lot of problems with snapshots occasionally causing deadlocks which hang the machine. This was under 6.x but I had the same problem under many previous versions, so I don't necessarily expect that it's fixed. Also, while it's never happened to me, I've heard other people report data corruption. -- Nate Eldredge [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:18:47 +0200 =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bakul Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. From their http://forum.r1soft.com/CDP.html page: [...] You completely missed the mark. I know what R1Soft's product is. What I want to know is what needs to be done to port it to FreeBSD. Sorry, my mindreader is broken. If this is what you really wanted to know, why not ask R1Soft? -hackers is not going to shed any light on the specifics of R1Soft's product. I replied to say that implementing a similar solution is not hard (I am sure you knew that too but I wasn't responding just to you). It may even be worth doing. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd.
On Tuesday 07 October 2008 10:47:16 pm ushasri tummala wrote: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd?In which variable is this information stored? Could you plz help me out with this There isn't a fixed timeslice due to preemption for interrupts, etc. However, the default time slice is available as the kern.sched.quantum sysctl: % sysctl -d kern.sched.quantum kern.sched.quantum: Roundrobin scheduling quantum in microseconds In the kernel it is stored as a static (private) variable in the scheduler implementation. -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Evren Yurtesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: Wow... thanks for the flame, but there's no reason that the device that is receiving the hammer replication couldn't be on the other side of the globe and there's no reason it couldn't be considered a backup. Part of the advantage of the structure that allows you to efficiently select for new changes allows you to do the same kind of *backup* as they claim. Wouldnt that device need to keep the whole filesystem? Like if you have 10 machines with 10x 1GB drives (lets say each used about 250gb), you will need 10TB disk space in the backup server? Urm... I think everything we've been discussing here backs up the whole filesystem (it would be near impossible for a block-oriented system to do elsewise). I suppose you could do something with the archive bit or dump bits with a filesystem based backup. But anyways... in a filesystem based replication system, you'd need enough space to store the data and the history of the data. The sum of the history of the data could even exceed the size of the sum of the input disks. It could also be much smaller. It really depends on how much you change. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd.
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -On [20081008 19:15], ushasri tummala ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I just want to know how its(time between 2 mi_switch()) calculated and in which variable is it stored in the code.(FreeBSD 5.2 release) This is not addressed in text book. What Dag-Erling meant to say, and if I recall correctly, a switch() is highly dependent on your hardware. So the time taken for a specific machine can be vastly different from another machine. No, no, no. Assuming the question is really what is the time between two task switches, A task switch can happen for one of many reasons: - first, and simplest, the current task has used up its quantum; - the current task is waiting for an external event (I/O, a mutex, a timeout, etc.) - the current task has terminated; - something happened to make a higher-priority task runnable; - ... The closest you can get to a hard answer is if you consider only the first of the above, in which case the answer is 1/hz second, where hz is literally a kernel variable named hz. Its default value is 1,000 on amd64, i386, ia64 and sparc64, and 100 on all other platforms. (actually, it's more complicated than that, because this default value is a preprocessor macro called HZ which you can redefine in your kernel config, and you can also set hz at boot time using the kern.hz loader tunable) A nice little project for someone with a lot of time on their hands would be to make the FreeBSD kernel tickless, thus (to oversimplify) eliminating hz. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Evren Yurtesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It would perhaps be too much to ask but can you drop a line to them and ask or is it ok if I give your email address to them and they can contact you? Feel free. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Evren Yurtesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldnt that device need to keep the whole filesystem? Like if you have 10 machines with 10x 1GB drives (lets say each used about 250gb), you will need 10TB disk space in the backup server? Yes and no and yes... It stores *changes* to the file systems, so how much space it needs depends on how full your file systems are, how often and how much you write to them, etc. Also, at every recovery point, you can discard all but the last change since the previous recovery point for every changed block. FWIW, the exact same answer applies to pretty much any backup solution that supports incremental backups. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Bakul Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bakul Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. From their http://forum.r1soft.com/CDP.html page: [...] You completely missed the mark. I know what R1Soft's product is. What I want to know is what needs to be done to port it to FreeBSD. Sorry, my mindreader is broken. If this is what you really wanted to know, why not ask R1Soft? -hackers is not going to shed any light on the specifics of R1Soft's product. I replied to say that implementing a similar solution is not hard (I am sure you knew that too but I wasn't responding just to you). It may even be worth doing. I didn't actually ask a question, and I don't mind that you don't have the answer. What I do mind is that you interpreted my statement of frustration as a question, and provided a completely irrelevant answer. You don't need to read minds to understand this, just English. If you take a step back and go through and read the entire thread again from the start, though, I think you will understand my frustration. Evren asked a question which everybody else is doing their best not to answer in as many words as possible; and when I try to answer, I find out that Evren doesn't really know what the question is. This is where - in an ideal world - somebody at R1Soft would jump in and start asking the right questions... DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
strftime's %c warning?
I'm trying to use the %c formatter in strftime(3), documented as: %cis replaced by national representation of time and date. ... which looks useful, except that in code in which WFORMAT is defined as 1 I get this error: str.c: In function 'ltime': str.c:141: warning: '%c' yields only last 2 digits of year in some locales on non-BSD systems *** Error code 1 Since the code I'm developing is definitely BSD-only (patch to pkg_* infrastructure), should I: a) stop using locale-based %c and choose my own date/time format b) remove WFORMAT from the Makefile? The same warning/error is generated by %x and %X, and %+ described in the strftime man page isn't recognized. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Zaphod Beeblebrox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: FWIW, the HAMMER file system _does_ support replication [...] No, actually, I didn't write that. You need to learn to quote properly. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd.
John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There isn't a fixed timeslice due to preemption for interrupts, etc. However, the default time slice is available as the kern.sched.quantum sysctl: % sysctl -d kern.sched.quantum kern.sched.quantum: Roundrobin scheduling quantum in microseconds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~% uname -a FreeBSD ds4.des.no 8.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT #48 r183493M: Tue Sep 30 23:35:48 CEST 2008 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/ds4 amd64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~% sysctl kern.sched.quantum sysctl: unknown oid 'kern.sched.quantum' DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the time between 2 mi_switches in freebsd.
On Wednesday 08 October 2008 04:23:43 pm Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There isn't a fixed timeslice due to preemption for interrupts, etc. However, the default time slice is available as the kern.sched.quantum sysctl: % sysctl -d kern.sched.quantum kern.sched.quantum: Roundrobin scheduling quantum in microseconds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~% uname -a FreeBSD ds4.des.no 8.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT #48 r183493M: Tue Sep 30 23:35:48 CEST 2008 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/ds4 amd64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~% sysctl kern.sched.quantum sysctl: unknown oid 'kern.sched.quantum' Apparently the quantum isn't exposed anywhere for ULE. -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:19:48 +0200 =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bakul Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bakul Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What really annoys me with this thread is that nobody has provided any information at all that would allow someone to understand what needs to be done and estimate how hard it would be. From their http://forum.r1soft.com/CDP.html page: [...] You completely missed the mark. I know what R1Soft's product is. What I want to know is what needs to be done to port it to FreeBSD. Sorry, my mindreader is broken. If this is what you really wanted to know, why not ask R1Soft? -hackers is not going to shed any light on the specifics of R1Soft's product. I replied to say that implementing a similar solution is not hard (I am sure you knew that too but I wasn't responding just to you). It may even be worth doing. I didn't actually ask a question, and I don't mind that you don't have the answer. What I do mind is that you interpreted my statement of frustration as a question, and provided a completely irrelevant answer. You don't need to read minds to understand this, just English. Interpreting an expression of frustration as a request for a solution is a common engineering trait:-) I can see you may not prefer my interpretation but I can't understand why you mind it. But so be it. I do not wish to annoy you. If you take a step back and go through and read the entire thread again from the start, though, I think you will understand my frustration. I understand your frustration but I chose to instead focus on the technical part. I too can get frustrated in similar situations but every time that happens I can trace it back to my own stress. I can't really control what others say so the way I deal with it is to ignore it or joke about it. I do try to clear misunderstandings but people don't always understand my point of view! As for feeling frustrated, I now view that as a warning signal. Evren asked a question which everybody else is doing their best not to answer in as many words as possible; and when I try to answer, I find out that Evren doesn't really know what the question is. Actually that was clear in his very first email. This is where - in an ideal world - somebody at R1Soft would jump in and start asking the right questions... Don't bet on it. My musings even makes me wonder if they do it right. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Sorry about that. Didn't mean to continue this discussion in -hackers but forgot to remove the cc list. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Quoting Zaphod Beeblebrox [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Evren Yurtesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: Wow... thanks for the flame, but there's no reason that the device that is receiving the hammer replication couldn't be on the other side of the globe and there's no reason it couldn't be considered a backup. Part of the advantage of the structure that allows you to efficiently select for new changes allows you to do the same kind of *backup* as they claim. Wouldnt that device need to keep the whole filesystem? Like if you have 10 machines with 10x 1GB drives (lets say each used about 250gb), you will need 10TB disk space in the backup server? Urm... I think everything we've been discussing here backs up the whole filesystem (it would be near impossible for a block-oriented system to do elsewise). I suppose you could do something with the archive bit or dump bits with a filesystem based backup. But anyways... in a filesystem based replication system, you'd need enough space to store the data and the history of the data. The sum of the history of the data could even exceed the size of the sum of the input disks. It could also be much smaller. It really depends on how much you change. The CDP backup solutions can manage that, even better you dont have to change to a totally new filesystem to use them. I really do not want to have a large argument about this but the only reason we cant do this on FreeBSD is because the companies who write CDP type backup solutions either do not know much about FreeBSD or they just cant find anybody who they can hire to do the job on FreeBSD. So that is why I posted this information to this list. If there is anybody who is capable of porting such software to FreeBSD then they can, 1- probably make money by doing the job, 2- if they have very little free time and not interested in making money then they can perhaps contact some of these companies (for example r1soft seems to be interested in supporting FreeBSD) and give them some hints and ideas on how this can be done on FreeBSD and where to find example codes and more information etc. Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Quoting Dag-Erling Smørgrav [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If you take a step back and go through and read the entire thread again from the start, though, I think you will understand my frustration. Evren asked a question which everybody else is doing their best not to answer in as many words as possible; and when I try to answer, I find out that Evren doesn't really know what the question is. This is where - in an ideal world - somebody at R1Soft would jump in and start asking the right questions... Actually, I was expecting that somebody would contact to R1Soft and offer them help for $$$. But I have given your contact information to them now. So they can forward their questions to you and probably you can let them know who knows what and who they can contact with more information or ask $$$ from them to do the job :) Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: strftime's %c warning?
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Ivan Voras wrote: I'm trying to use the %c formatter in strftime(3), documented as: %cis replaced by national representation of time and date. ... which looks useful, except that in code in which WFORMAT is defined as 1 I get this error: str.c: In function 'ltime': str.c:141: warning: '%c' yields only last 2 digits of year in some locales on non-BSD systems *** Error code 1 Since the code I'm developing is definitely BSD-only (patch to pkg_* infrastructure), should I: a) stop using locale-based %c and choose my own date/time format b) remove WFORMAT from the Makefile? The same warning/error is generated by %x and %X, and %+ described in the strftime man page isn't recognized. You are hitting a gcc builtin. Have you tried adding -fno-builtin-strftime? Sean -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD
Hi, re Continuous Data Protection (an enterprise market niche, today), a recent paper that provides some background and has basic references might be: http://www.usenix.org/event/fast08/tech/verma.html SWEEPER: An Efficient Disaster Recovery Point Identification Mechanism, FAST '08, Akshat Verma, IBM India Research; Kaladhar Voruganti, Network Appliance; Ramani Routray, IBM Almaden Research; Rohit Jain, Yahoo India. -bruce ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
