Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
I'd like to thank everyone who's replied to my questions regarding the beastie menu and 4th. my mail has attracted far more attention than I expected. -- If you cc me or remove the list(s) completely I'll most likely ignore your message.see http://www.eyrie.org./~eagle/faqs/questions.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
I go through the love/"why am I spending my time learning an obscure language" kind of relationship. :) If you want to buy books, good ones are: http://www.forth.com/Content/Handbook/Handbook.html http://www.forth.com/Content/fat/fat.html You can get PDF versions if you download the trial version of Swift Forth. Or you can pick up a few on Amazon. Starting Forth is the classic intro (by Leo Brodie) Thinking Forth is the follow on. Patrick > Here's the question perhaps more appropriate for hackers@: > > I looked into ripping the ascii-art out, but am quite scared. However, > forth looks like it's an interesting (love/hate kind of thing) language, > and I'd like to get my hands on it. Can anyone recommend good (or just > any, really) introductory material? google quickly degrades into misses, > and just a few even of those. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
Scott Long wrote: Roman Neuhauser wrote: # [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2004-01-09 15:32:35 -0700: Roman Neuhauser wrote: I have two related questions, one being more appropriate for current@, the other for hackers@, but they're quite the same thing, so sorry for the cross-post, I hope it's tolerable (I bet this won't solicit many replies :). I dislike the boot menu in CURRENT, and would prefer something that * doesn't rob me of the text output so far * displays no mascots or other visual noise The only point for putting the mascot onto the screen was to fill unused space next to the menu. I you want to keep the menu and remove the mascot, just remove the line in beastie-menu that calls print-beastie. For astetics, you could then reformat the menu dimensions to take up the whole screen. Of course, leaving the menu on the screen at all defeats your first goal mentioned above. so there's no way of having something output without clearing the screen? then I might just disable the menu completely, supposing there's an alternative similar to (or same as) the boot prompt in STABLE, which I have no problem with. Remove the 'clear' word from beastie-start Scott Actually, this isn't quite right since the menu and mascot will just overwrite whatever is already on the screen. The better solution would be to replace the 'clear' word in /boot/screen.4th with a version that spits out 25 line feeds. Scott ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
Roman Neuhauser wrote: # [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2004-01-09 15:32:35 -0700: Roman Neuhauser wrote: I have two related questions, one being more appropriate for current@, the other for hackers@, but they're quite the same thing, so sorry for the cross-post, I hope it's tolerable (I bet this won't solicit many replies :). I dislike the boot menu in CURRENT, and would prefer something that * doesn't rob me of the text output so far * displays no mascots or other visual noise The only point for putting the mascot onto the screen was to fill unused space next to the menu. I you want to keep the menu and remove the mascot, just remove the line in beastie-menu that calls print-beastie. For astetics, you could then reformat the menu dimensions to take up the whole screen. Of course, leaving the menu on the screen at all defeats your first goal mentioned above. so there's no way of having something output without clearing the screen? then I might just disable the menu completely, supposing there's an alternative similar to (or same as) the boot prompt in STABLE, which I have no problem with. Remove the 'clear' word from beastie-start Scott ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2004-01-09 15:32:35 -0700: > Roman Neuhauser wrote: > >I have two related questions, one being more appropriate for current@, > >the other for hackers@, but they're quite the same thing, so sorry for > >the cross-post, I hope it's tolerable (I bet this won't solicit many > >replies :). > > > >I dislike the boot menu in CURRENT, and would prefer something that > > > >* doesn't rob me of the text output so far > >* displays no mascots or other visual noise > The only point for putting the mascot onto the screen was to fill unused > space next to the menu. I you want to keep the menu and remove the > mascot, just remove the line in beastie-menu that calls print-beastie. > For astetics, you could then reformat the menu dimensions to take up the > whole screen. Of course, leaving the menu on the screen at all defeats > your first goal mentioned above. so there's no way of having something output without clearing the screen? then I might just disable the menu completely, supposing there's an alternative similar to (or same as) the boot prompt in STABLE, which I have no problem with. -- If you cc me or remove the list(s) completely I'll most likely ignore your message.see http://www.eyrie.org./~eagle/faqs/questions.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
Roman Neuhauser wrote: I have two related questions, one being more appropriate for current@, the other for hackers@, but they're quite the same thing, so sorry for the cross-post, I hope it's tolerable (I bet this won't solicit many replies :). I dislike the boot menu in CURRENT, and would prefer something that * doesn't rob me of the text output so far * displays no mascots or other visual noise As was pointed out, adding 'beastie_disable=YES' to /boot/laoder.conf will do the trick. Here's the question perhaps more appropriate for hackers@: I looked into ripping the ascii-art out, but am quite scared. However, forth looks like it's an interesting (love/hate kind of thing) language, and I'd like to get my hands on it. Can anyone recommend good (or just any, really) introductory material? google quickly degrades into misses, and just a few even of those. A good link to start with is: http://ficl.sourceforge.net/ficl.html#whatis We use FICL, which is a particular implementation of Forth. And here's the one for current@: Failing the above query, does anyone have a replacement that meets my requirements? (But I'd really prefer hacking it myself, so links to tutorials are awarded with more points than off-the-shelf programs. :) TIA && HAND! The only point for putting the mascot onto the screen was to fill unused space next to the menu. I you want to keep the menu and remove the mascot, just remove the line in beastie-menu that calls print-beastie. For astetics, you could then reformat the menu dimensions to take up the whole screen. Of course, leaving the menu on the screen at all defeats your first goal mentioned above. Scott ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
Hi, re the question from Roman Neuhauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Fri, 9 Jan 2004: > forth looks like it's an interesting .. language. > Can anyone recommend good (or just > any, really) introductory material? --- If you do want to get into Forth, you can probably find some of the following in a decent research library: * The common leading intro text to Forth was: "Starting FORTH", Leo Brodie, FORTH, Inc., Prentice Hall, 1981. * Another good intro was: "FORTH", W.P. Salerman, O.Tisserand, and B. Toulout, Springer-Verlag, 1983. * It's not a tutorial, but it may be helpful: "FORTH Encyclopedia: The Complete FORTH Programmer's Manual", Mitch Derick and Linda Baker, 2nd ed., Mountain View Press, 1982. * Uneven, but potentially very good for the novice, "Invitation to FORTH", Harry Katzan, Jr., PBI, 1981. * If nothing else, you should be able to find this influential introductory paper by an IBMer, which arguably played an important role in legitimizing Forth use: "An Architectural Trail to Threaded-Code Systems", Peter M. Kogge, "IEEE Computer", v.15,n.3, pp.22-32, March 1982. --- If you are used to any RPN language, such as found on an HP calculator, or Postscript, you will find getting into Forth rather easy (Although not the same, Forth and Postscript are very similar). It's not often described this way, but you can somewhat think of Forth as a stand-alone interactive threaded-code compiler backend, which you can program directly using the compiler's intermediate language and interact with the symbol table. Forth is at it's best when you have small (<32K), unique embedded systems (perhaps with custom architecture) and have no existing toolchain. I think you could find a Forth in the ports tree to get up-to-speed with, before looking at boot-time FICL... Paul Frenger has a Forth column in SIGPLAN notices. For instance, the only published academic reference that I am aware of that describes PicoBSD is "Forth and the FreeBSD Bootloader", Paul Frenger, "ACM SIGPLAN Notices", August 2000, v.35,n.8, pp.15-17. I don't know how active this is, but there are many links: http://www.forth.org Forth seems to have become heavily used in spacecraft. The instrument platform on the US probe that landed on as asteroid awhile back was all Forth, if I understand correctly. Both US and USSR used Forth this way. See also: http://forth.gsfc.nasa.gov Reasonably impressive list... - bruce ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
Roman Neuhauser wrote: Here's the question perhaps more appropriate for hackers@: I looked into ripping the ascii-art out, but am quite scared. However, forth looks like it's an interesting (love/hate kind of thing) language, and I'd like to get my hands on it. Can anyone recommend good (or just any, really) introductory material? google quickly degrades into misses, and just a few even of those. As someone has already replied, disabling the beastie menu is simple, and requires but a single line in /boot/loader.conf. On the other hand, I'd recommend cheking out the Forth Interest Group web page (http://www.forth.org/) if you want to search for reading material. And, yes, it's a love/hate kind of thing. :-) I think someone ported a userland version of Forth as lang/ficl. -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In related news Microsoft Windows users are now covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
In the last episode (Jan 09), Roman Neuhauser said: > I have two related questions, one being more appropriate for > current@, the other for hackers@, but they're quite the same thing, > so sorry for the cross-post, I hope it's tolerable (I bet this won't > solicit many replies :). > > I dislike the boot menu in CURRENT, and would prefer something that > > * doesn't rob me of the text output so far > * displays no mascots or other visual noise I believe adding beastie_disable="NO" to /boot/loader.conf will do what you want. -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
beastie boot menu, 4th (forth)
I have two related questions, one being more appropriate for current@, the other for hackers@, but they're quite the same thing, so sorry for the cross-post, I hope it's tolerable (I bet this won't solicit many replies :). I dislike the boot menu in CURRENT, and would prefer something that * doesn't rob me of the text output so far * displays no mascots or other visual noise Here's the question perhaps more appropriate for hackers@: I looked into ripping the ascii-art out, but am quite scared. However, forth looks like it's an interesting (love/hate kind of thing) language, and I'd like to get my hands on it. Can anyone recommend good (or just any, really) introductory material? google quickly degrades into misses, and just a few even of those. And here's the one for current@: Failing the above query, does anyone have a replacement that meets my requirements? (But I'd really prefer hacking it myself, so links to tutorials are awarded with more points than off-the-shelf programs. :) TIA && HAND! -- If you cc me or remove the list(s) completely I'll most likely ignore your message.see http://www.eyrie.org./~eagle/faqs/questions.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
