Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Terry Lambert writes: : Are you sure it's not just a CMD640 IDE controller? They are : known to have issues; Linux has a patch... FreeBSD used to, but : I think it got yanked out, or was just turned off by default. The CMD640 had many DMA corruption bugs. Many are fixed with the Linux patch, but data corruption issues remain. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
Terry Lambert wrote: > > David O'Brien wrote: > > > > Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. > > > > There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: > > > > > > [data curruption on VIA KT133/133A systems by pushing PCI and memory bus] > > > > > > Are you sure about that? > > > > I am. I was having data coruption in a terrable way when I added a 2nd > > IDE UDA100 drive to a very plain MSI K7T Pro2-A 1.2GHz Athlon system. > > Are you sure it's not just a CMD640 IDE controller? They are > known to have issues; Linux has a patch... FreeBSD used to, but > I think it got yanked out, or was just turned off by default. I didn't think anybody used the CMD640 anymore (not since early Pentium days even). Anyway sys/pci/ide_pci.c still has the workaround for the CMD640, it's just not a kernel option anymore because FreeBSD automagically detects and installs the workaround now if you have one. -- \ |_ _|__ __|_ \ __| Jason Andresen[EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ | ||/ _| Network and Distributed Systems Engineer _| _|___| _| _|_\___| Office: 703-883-7755 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
David O'Brien wrote: > > > Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. > > > There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: > > > > [data curruption on VIA KT133/133A systems by pushing PCI and memory bus] > > > > Are you sure about that? > > I am. I was having data coruption in a terrable way when I added a 2nd > IDE UDA100 drive to a very plain MSI K7T Pro2-A 1.2GHz Athlon system. Are you sure it's not just a CMD640 IDE controller? They are known to have issues; Linux has a patch... FreeBSD used to, but I think it got yanked out, or was just turned off by default. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
This might be a dumb question, but if a fix exists in the linux world, should there not be code available? If so, could this code be integrated (by someone far more skillful than yours truly) into a future release? Cheers, - Original Message - From: "Albert D. Cahalan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 10:33 AM Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors > > Erik Greenwald writes: > > [Erik Greenwald too] > > >> I'm using both of those (iwill kk266) with a thunderbird 850, and > >> haven't had problems in fbsd. Linux flakes out a bit when I tell > >> it I have a k7 processor, so I told it I have a k6 and it works fine. > > > > sorry, this thread was supposed to stay in -stable, > > Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. > There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: > > Any fast PCI device (often IDE) can cause data corruption. > VIA initially blamed this on a specific sound card that would > push the bus pretty hard, then offered a Windows hack that > would disable some performance features. After some trouble > finding a contact at VIA, Linux got the same hack. If you > don't have this hack... well maybe you just got lucky or did > not notice that your data is getting trashed. (with FreeBSD's > small user base, a data corruption problem like this one > might go unnoticed for a while) > > If the CPU pushes the memory bus too hard, stuff goes wrong. > This was first noticed with some Athlon-specific assembly code > in the Linux kernel. The problem has also been seen by Windows > users running Photoshop. Sometimes the problem goes away if you > upgrade to a very large power supply. AMD has been having some > trouble running their new core on VIA motherboards; maybe the > new core hits the same problem on unoptimized code. > > So problems will be less common with an OS that doesn't push > the hardware very hard, but do you really want to trust this > junky product? Maybe next year you will upgrade to a new gcc > that generates code that is fast enough to trigger a problem, > or you will install a gigabit network card that is aggressive > with the PCI bus. Don't upgrade that CPU next year either. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
On a related topic, I wonder whether gcc 3.0 will improve Athon compilations. I have a big number crunching program that runs just as fast on Windows2000 on my laptop(1Ghz PPro), as on my monster 1.2G Athlon DDR with FreeBSD. Rob. "Søren Schmidt" wrote: > > It seems David O'Brien wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 12:11:15AM -0400, Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:33:36PM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > > > > > > > Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. > > > > There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: > > > > > > [data curruption on VIA KT133/133A systems by pushing PCI and memory bus] > > > > > > Are you sure about that? > > > > I am. I was having data coruption in a terrable way when I added a 2nd > > IDE UDA100 drive to a very plain MSI K7T Pro2-A 1.2GHz Athlon system. > > Hmm, dont MSI have a fixed BIOS ? > > I could add the code to the kernel, but do we have a placeholder > for such PCI quirks ?? > > There is nothing new to these kind of problems, lots of chipsets > has problems that are worked around in the BIOS, and frankly that > is where such fixes should be IMNHO... > > -Søren > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- The Numeric Python EM Project www.members.home.net/europax To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
It seems David O'Brien wrote: > On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 12:11:15AM -0400, Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:33:36PM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > > > > > Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. > > > There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: > > > > [data curruption on VIA KT133/133A systems by pushing PCI and memory bus] > > > > Are you sure about that? > > I am. I was having data coruption in a terrable way when I added a 2nd > IDE UDA100 drive to a very plain MSI K7T Pro2-A 1.2GHz Athlon system. Hmm, dont MSI have a fixed BIOS ? I could add the code to the kernel, but do we have a placeholder for such PCI quirks ?? There is nothing new to these kind of problems, lots of chipsets has problems that are worked around in the BIOS, and frankly that is where such fixes should be IMNHO... -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 12:11:15AM -0400, Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:33:36PM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > > > Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. > > There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: > > [data curruption on VIA KT133/133A systems by pushing PCI and memory bus] > > Are you sure about that? I am. I was having data coruption in a terrable way when I added a 2nd IDE UDA100 drive to a very plain MSI K7T Pro2-A 1.2GHz Athlon system. -- -- David ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:33:36PM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. > There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: [data curruption on VIA KT133/133A systems by pushing PCI and memory bus] Are you sure about that? I've pushed systems like that _very_ hard and not seen any problems, with Linux, NetBSD, or FreeBSD. The only trouble I have is IDE bus resets with CD-ROM drives, especially in FreeBSD. Since the same thing happens with a lot of IDE systems, I generally blame IDE; it's a broken-by-design interface in the first place. If this is really true, I would think it should be fairly easy to prove it. Now, go back in time about 2 years, and I wouldn't doubt it, because there were problems with the first VIA KT chipsets, and even the AMD architecture in general. Everything I've read suggests those problems have been fixed. If not, then it should be fairly easy to demonstrate this. I'm willing to donate time and a system to this since I'd really like to know. In fact, if this _really is_ true, then it would be a good idea for a substantial number of people to try and verify it: the VIA based motherboards for AMD are some of the best out there, as PC motherboards go anyway. -- "Star Wars Moral Number 17: Teddy bears are dangerous in herds." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
Erik Greenwald writes: > [Erik Greenwald too] >> I'm using both of those (iwill kk266) with a thunderbird 850, and >> haven't had problems in fbsd. Linux flakes out a bit when I tell >> it I have a k7 processor, so I told it I have a k6 and it works fine. > > sorry, this thread was supposed to stay in -stable, Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too. There are at least two major problems with VIA chips: Any fast PCI device (often IDE) can cause data corruption. VIA initially blamed this on a specific sound card that would push the bus pretty hard, then offered a Windows hack that would disable some performance features. After some trouble finding a contact at VIA, Linux got the same hack. If you don't have this hack... well maybe you just got lucky or did not notice that your data is getting trashed. (with FreeBSD's small user base, a data corruption problem like this one might go unnoticed for a while) If the CPU pushes the memory bus too hard, stuff goes wrong. This was first noticed with some Athlon-specific assembly code in the Linux kernel. The problem has also been seen by Windows users running Photoshop. Sometimes the problem goes away if you upgrade to a very large power supply. AMD has been having some trouble running their new core on VIA motherboards; maybe the new core hits the same problem on unoptimized code. So problems will be less common with an OS that doesn't push the hardware very hard, but do you really want to trust this junky product? Maybe next year you will upgrade to a new gcc that generates code that is fast enough to trigger a problem, or you will install a gigabit network card that is aggressive with the PCI bus. Don't upgrade that CPU next year either. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
> > > > > > > > Yeah. As long as you avoid motherboards with the VIA KT133A/KT133 > > > chipset and the VIA 686B Southbridge, you're probably fine (not all such > > > motherboards supposedly have problems, but how do you tell the > > > difference?). For more info, check out: > > Well, I've been using an abit kt7 (via kt133/686a chipset) with FreeBSD > and I havn't had the slightest problem. I'm running this with an 800 MHz > Thunderbird. > > > > > I'm using both of those (iwill kk266) with a thunderbird 850, and haven't had > > problems in fbsd. Linux flakes out a bit when I tell it I have a k7 processor, > > so I told it I have a k6 and it works fine. > > > Ken > > > sorry, this thread was supposed to stay in -stable, my slow brain and fat fingers typed in the wrong reply address :) I really need to get around to getting my mail client capable of sending so I don't have to compose, shell into a mail capable machine, then send my response... -Erik To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
> > > > Yeah. As long as you avoid motherboards with the VIA KT133A/KT133 > > chipset and the VIA 686B Southbridge, you're probably fine (not all such > > motherboards supposedly have problems, but how do you tell the > > difference?). For more info, check out: Well, I've been using an abit kt7 (via kt133/686a chipset) with FreeBSD and I havn't had the slightest problem. I'm running this with an 800 MHz Thunderbird. > > I'm using both of those (iwill kk266) with a thunderbird 850, and haven't had > problems in fbsd. Linux flakes out a bit when I tell it I have a k7 processor, > so I told it I have a k6 and it works fine. > Ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors
> Yeah. As long as you avoid motherboards with the VIA KT133A/KT133 > chipset and the VIA 686B Southbridge, you're probably fine (not all such > motherboards supposedly have problems, but how do you tell the > difference?). For more info, check out: I'm using both of those (iwill kk266) with a thunderbird 850, and haven't had problems in fbsd. Linux flakes out a bit when I tell it I have a k7 processor, so I told it I have a k6 and it works fine. -Erik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [http://math.smsu.edu/~erik] The opinions expressed by me are not necessarily opinions. In all probability, they are random rambling, and to be ignored. Failure to ignore may result in severe boredom or confusion. Shake well before opening. Keep Refrigerated. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
