Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
On (28/03/2012 18:43), Pedro Giffuni wrote: > Hello Efstratios ; > > In general, I agree with Gleb that you should start from > the Apple Darwin port instead of spending time on the > current FreeBSD driver. I'd suggest submitting two proposals -- too much depends on a mentor availability for a particular project. > Please note that last year someone attempted to bring > in smbfs from Darwin with your same strategy and > failed: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/soc-status/2011-June/000340.html > > Making it MPsafe may look relatively easy but it will > take valuable time. In the case of ext2fs, for example, > I am convinced it was only done in time because the > ext2fs code is based on UFS1. > > Also the lack of write support has made the current > NTFS driver undesirable and for a while, even before > the MP-unsafe axing was defined, the driver was > being considered for deprecation. > > Quite honestly I think we want the Darwin driver. If it > serves as further encouragement, when I asked Yar > about his HFS port he said everything he took from > Darwin "basically" compiled. My experience with Darwin NTFS was similar. I had most of it compiling in several evenings. At least extended attributes and utf-8 routines had to be disabled. Sorry, I can't recall the details, had no time to get back to it afterwards. Thanks, Gleb. > > cheers, > > Pedro. > ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
Hello Efstratios ; In general, I agree with Gleb that you should start from the Apple Darwin port instead of spending time on the current FreeBSD driver. Please note that last year someone attempted to bring in smbfs from Darwin with your same strategy and failed: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/soc-status/2011-June/000340.html Making it MPsafe may look relatively easy but it will take valuable time. In the case of ext2fs, for example, I am convinced it was only done in time because the ext2fs code is based on UFS1. Also the lack of write support has made the current NTFS driver undesirable and for a while, even before the MP-unsafe axing was defined, the driver was being considered for deprecation. Quite honestly I think we want the Darwin driver. If it serves as further encouragement, when I asked Yar about his HFS port he said everything he took from Darwin "basically" compiled. cheers, Pedro. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Attilio Rao wrote: > 2012/3/27, Efstratios Karatzas : > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Gleb Kurtsou > > wrote: > > > >> On (26/03/2012 21:13), Efstratios Karatzas wrote: > >> > Greetings, > >> > > >> > I am a FreeBSD GSoC 2010 student, looking to participate in this years > >> > GSoC. The project that I wish to work on is the FreeBSD NTFS driver. > >> > > >> > I 've already discussed my project idea with Attilio@ who suggested > >> that I > >> > forward my proposal to the hackers mailing list in order to get more > >> > feedback and see if there's anyone interested in mentoring a NTFS > >> project. > >> > > >> > The current draft of the technical part of my proposal(pdf & plain > text) > >> > can be found here: > >> > > >> > http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_proposal.tar > >> > > >> > The project idea focuses on mp-safing the NTFS driver as well as > adding > >> > extra write support. I've tried to merge the two conflicting NTFS > >> > project > >> > ideas in the ideas wiki page, into one. One of them suggesting that > work > >> > should be done on the current driver (mp-safe it etc) and the other > one > >> > suggesting that we port Apple's NTFS driver from scratch. The concept > is > >> > that we keep most of our vnode/vfs code (i.e. ntfs_vfsops.c, > >> ntfs_vnops.c) > >> > and rework existing infrastructure as needed as well as implement new > >> > features using Apple's driver as a guide. > >> > >> I'm not sure I follow your idea, but I'd suggest sticking to a single > >> project: either improve FreeBSD NTFS or do the port. FreeBSD and Darwin > >> ntfs implementations are completely unrelated thus porting features from > >> Darwin won't be easy. > >> > >> > This way, we avoid the major > >> > changes in Apple's VFS (is there any documentation to be found?) and > >> > port > >> > code that won't break current functionality. > >> > >> I bet "major changes in Apple's VFS" are easier to deal with than > >> "merging" two unrelated file systems. XNU VFS is based on FreeBSD 5 VFS > >> and they still share a lot in common, e.g. vnode operations themselves > >> are nearly the same, e.g. extended attributes, locking, buffer cache are > >> different. > >> > >> Take a look at HFS+ port. It's unmaintained and outdated but page > >> contains link to CVS repository snapshot. > >> http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ > >> > >> > I tried to keep this e-mail brief so If you wish to know more, please > >> refer > >> > to the proposal. > >> > > >> > Thank you > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas > >> > > > > Since the FreeBSD wiki has two conflicting NTFS ideas, I thought of > > submitting two proposals: one to work on the current driver and one to > port > > Apple's driver and let the FreeBSD team choose, should they wish to pick > > one of them. Attilio suggested that perhaps a merge of those two ideas > was > > better than two separate proposals and this was my attempt to merge those > > ideas; I hear what you say though. > > What I specifically had in mind is: > - make NTFS mpsafe > - bugbusting > - surf in Apple implementation/history, check for bugfixes there and > import in the FreeBSD implementation > > Unfortunately our idea page is not as updated as you want it to be, > thus it happens to find duplicate ideas list, not well merged, etc. > > Attilio > > > -- > Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein > Here's a draft for a NTFS proposal that focuses on improving our current driver(mp-safe + extra write support). I believe it's well defined and shouldn't cause any confusion. Also a couple of fixes due to Pedro's e-mail (thanks!). The draft can be found here: http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_mpsafe_proposal.tar Let me know what you think. -- Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
2012/3/27, Efstratios Karatzas : > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Gleb Kurtsou > wrote: > >> On (26/03/2012 21:13), Efstratios Karatzas wrote: >> > Greetings, >> > >> > I am a FreeBSD GSoC 2010 student, looking to participate in this years >> > GSoC. The project that I wish to work on is the FreeBSD NTFS driver. >> > >> > I 've already discussed my project idea with Attilio@ who suggested >> that I >> > forward my proposal to the hackers mailing list in order to get more >> > feedback and see if there's anyone interested in mentoring a NTFS >> project. >> > >> > The current draft of the technical part of my proposal(pdf & plain text) >> > can be found here: >> > >> > http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_proposal.tar >> > >> > The project idea focuses on mp-safing the NTFS driver as well as adding >> > extra write support. I've tried to merge the two conflicting NTFS >> > project >> > ideas in the ideas wiki page, into one. One of them suggesting that work >> > should be done on the current driver (mp-safe it etc) and the other one >> > suggesting that we port Apple's NTFS driver from scratch. The concept is >> > that we keep most of our vnode/vfs code (i.e. ntfs_vfsops.c, >> ntfs_vnops.c) >> > and rework existing infrastructure as needed as well as implement new >> > features using Apple's driver as a guide. >> >> I'm not sure I follow your idea, but I'd suggest sticking to a single >> project: either improve FreeBSD NTFS or do the port. FreeBSD and Darwin >> ntfs implementations are completely unrelated thus porting features from >> Darwin won't be easy. >> >> > This way, we avoid the major >> > changes in Apple's VFS (is there any documentation to be found?) and >> > port >> > code that won't break current functionality. >> >> I bet "major changes in Apple's VFS" are easier to deal with than >> "merging" two unrelated file systems. XNU VFS is based on FreeBSD 5 VFS >> and they still share a lot in common, e.g. vnode operations themselves >> are nearly the same, e.g. extended attributes, locking, buffer cache are >> different. >> >> Take a look at HFS+ port. It's unmaintained and outdated but page >> contains link to CVS repository snapshot. >> http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ >> >> > I tried to keep this e-mail brief so If you wish to know more, please >> refer >> > to the proposal. >> > >> > Thank you >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas >> > > Since the FreeBSD wiki has two conflicting NTFS ideas, I thought of > submitting two proposals: one to work on the current driver and one to port > Apple's driver and let the FreeBSD team choose, should they wish to pick > one of them. Attilio suggested that perhaps a merge of those two ideas was > better than two separate proposals and this was my attempt to merge those > ideas; I hear what you say though. What I specifically had in mind is: - make NTFS mpsafe - bugbusting - surf in Apple implementation/history, check for bugfixes there and import in the FreeBSD implementation Unfortunately our idea page is not as updated as you want it to be, thus it happens to find duplicate ideas list, not well merged, etc. Attilio -- Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: > On (26/03/2012 21:13), Efstratios Karatzas wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > I am a FreeBSD GSoC 2010 student, looking to participate in this years > > GSoC. The project that I wish to work on is the FreeBSD NTFS driver. > > > > I 've already discussed my project idea with Attilio@ who suggested > that I > > forward my proposal to the hackers mailing list in order to get more > > feedback and see if there's anyone interested in mentoring a NTFS > project. > > > > The current draft of the technical part of my proposal(pdf & plain text) > > can be found here: > > > > http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_proposal.tar > > > > The project idea focuses on mp-safing the NTFS driver as well as adding > > extra write support. I've tried to merge the two conflicting NTFS project > > ideas in the ideas wiki page, into one. One of them suggesting that work > > should be done on the current driver (mp-safe it etc) and the other one > > suggesting that we port Apple's NTFS driver from scratch. The concept is > > that we keep most of our vnode/vfs code (i.e. ntfs_vfsops.c, > ntfs_vnops.c) > > and rework existing infrastructure as needed as well as implement new > > features using Apple's driver as a guide. > > I'm not sure I follow your idea, but I'd suggest sticking to a single > project: either improve FreeBSD NTFS or do the port. FreeBSD and Darwin > ntfs implementations are completely unrelated thus porting features from > Darwin won't be easy. > > > This way, we avoid the major > > changes in Apple's VFS (is there any documentation to be found?) and port > > code that won't break current functionality. > > I bet "major changes in Apple's VFS" are easier to deal with than > "merging" two unrelated file systems. XNU VFS is based on FreeBSD 5 VFS > and they still share a lot in common, e.g. vnode operations themselves > are nearly the same, e.g. extended attributes, locking, buffer cache are > different. > > Take a look at HFS+ port. It's unmaintained and outdated but page > contains link to CVS repository snapshot. > http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ > > > I tried to keep this e-mail brief so If you wish to know more, please > refer > > to the proposal. > > > > Thank you > > > > -- > > > > Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas > Since the FreeBSD wiki has two conflicting NTFS ideas, I thought of submitting two proposals: one to work on the current driver and one to port Apple's driver and let the FreeBSD team choose, should they wish to pick one of them. Attilio suggested that perhaps a merge of those two ideas was better than two separate proposals and this was my attempt to merge those ideas; I hear what you say though. Personally, I'd rather work on the current FreeBSD NTFS driver, but if there are no mentors for that idea, it's a no-go. Which NTFS idea do you prefer? I'll take a look at the HFS port asap. Thanks for the input. -- Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
On (26/03/2012 21:13), Efstratios Karatzas wrote: > Greetings, > > I am a FreeBSD GSoC 2010 student, looking to participate in this years > GSoC. The project that I wish to work on is the FreeBSD NTFS driver. > > I 've already discussed my project idea with Attilio@ who suggested that I > forward my proposal to the hackers mailing list in order to get more > feedback and see if there's anyone interested in mentoring a NTFS project. > > The current draft of the technical part of my proposal(pdf & plain text) > can be found here: > > http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_proposal.tar > > The project idea focuses on mp-safing the NTFS driver as well as adding > extra write support. I've tried to merge the two conflicting NTFS project > ideas in the ideas wiki page, into one. One of them suggesting that work > should be done on the current driver (mp-safe it etc) and the other one > suggesting that we port Apple's NTFS driver from scratch. The concept is > that we keep most of our vnode/vfs code (i.e. ntfs_vfsops.c, ntfs_vnops.c) > and rework existing infrastructure as needed as well as implement new > features using Apple's driver as a guide. I'm not sure I follow your idea, but I'd suggest sticking to a single project: either improve FreeBSD NTFS or do the port. FreeBSD and Darwin ntfs implementations are completely unrelated thus porting features from Darwin won't be easy. > This way, we avoid the major > changes in Apple's VFS (is there any documentation to be found?) and port > code that won't break current functionality. I bet "major changes in Apple's VFS" are easier to deal with than "merging" two unrelated file systems. XNU VFS is based on FreeBSD 5 VFS and they still share a lot in common, e.g. vnode operations themselves are nearly the same, e.g. extended attributes, locking, buffer cache are different. Take a look at HFS+ port. It's unmaintained and outdated but page contains link to CVS repository snapshot. http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ > I tried to keep this e-mail brief so If you wish to know more, please refer > to the proposal. > > Thank you > > -- > > Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Efstratios Karatzas wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > I am a FreeBSD GSoC 2010 student, looking to participate in this years > > GSoC. The project that I wish to work on is the FreeBSD NTFS driver. > > > > I 've already discussed my project idea with Attilio@ who suggested > that I > > forward my proposal to the hackers mailing list in order to get more > > feedback and see if there's anyone interested in mentoring a NTFS > project. > > > > The current draft of the technical part of my proposal(pdf & plain text) > > can be found here: > > > > http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_proposal.tar > > Hi, I just downloaded, will read tomorrow. Skimming the beginning, I > notice >"3) bugbusting" > > There's a bug in ntfs-3g see my: >http://berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops/shrink/#bugs_ntfs3g >"FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE /usr/ports/sysutils/fusefs-ntfs" ... >"Name of Files & directories starting with a '$' are not seen" > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich > http://berklix.com > Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". > Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, > quoted-printable. >Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ > This project proposal is about the FreeBSD in-kernel NTFS driver, not the one that runs with fuse, sorry! -- Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: NTFS GSoC Project Idea
Efstratios Karatzas wrote: > Greetings, > > I am a FreeBSD GSoC 2010 student, looking to participate in this years > GSoC. The project that I wish to work on is the FreeBSD NTFS driver. > > I 've already discussed my project idea with Attilio@ who suggested that I > forward my proposal to the hackers mailing list in order to get more > feedback and see if there's anyone interested in mentoring a NTFS project. > > The current draft of the technical part of my proposal(pdf & plain text) > can be found here: > > http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_proposal.tar Hi, I just downloaded, will read tomorrow. Skimming the beginning, I notice "3) bugbusting" There's a bug in ntfs-3g see my: http://berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops/shrink/#bugs_ntfs3g "FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE /usr/ports/sysutils/fusefs-ntfs" ... "Name of Files & directories starting with a '$' are not seen" Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
NTFS GSoC Project Idea
Greetings, I am a FreeBSD GSoC 2010 student, looking to participate in this years GSoC. The project that I wish to work on is the FreeBSD NTFS driver. I 've already discussed my project idea with Attilio@ who suggested that I forward my proposal to the hackers mailing list in order to get more feedback and see if there's anyone interested in mentoring a NTFS project. The current draft of the technical part of my proposal(pdf & plain text) can be found here: http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~std06101/ntfs/ntfs_proposal.tar The project idea focuses on mp-safing the NTFS driver as well as adding extra write support. I've tried to merge the two conflicting NTFS project ideas in the ideas wiki page, into one. One of them suggesting that work should be done on the current driver (mp-safe it etc) and the other one suggesting that we port Apple's NTFS driver from scratch. The concept is that we keep most of our vnode/vfs code (i.e. ntfs_vfsops.c, ntfs_vnops.c) and rework existing infrastructure as needed as well as implement new features using Apple's driver as a guide. This way, we avoid the major changes in Apple's VFS (is there any documentation to be found?) and port code that won't break current functionality. I tried to keep this e-mail brief so If you wish to know more, please refer to the proposal. Thank you -- Efstratios "GPF" Karatzas ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
