Re: Spark 5.

[Brooks Davis]

On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 12:09:47AM +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote:
> Do we run on Spark 5?  Someone's selling one and a monitor for 300 UK
> pounds.  Is it worth getting hold of?

A Sparc 5 is a 32-bit machine (approximatly equivalent to a 90Mhz
Pentium) so no.  If you ment's an Ultra5, that's a PCI UltraSPARC so we
do run on those.

-- Brooks

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Re: Spark 5.

[Mark Valentine]

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Josef Karthauser)
> Date: Thu 26 Sep, 2002
> Subject: Spark 5.

> Do we run on Spark 5?  Someone's selling one and a monitor for 300 UK
> pounds.  Is it worth getting hold of?

Not for FreeBSD (sun4u only, I believe); SPARC 5 is sun4m (32-bit only).

£300 is expensive - a 170MHz SPARCstation 5 goes for £75 and up on eBay
in the UK (without monitor), and I think a monitor will go for about £40.

The 70MHz and 85MHz(?) models are much slower due to cache, but I've heard
that Linux has had problems with the 170MHz model.

Solaris 9 is rather sluggish on my 85MHz system, but OpenBSD and NetBSD
run OK on my 70MHz system.

The 170MHz SPARCstation 5 was Sun's last decent mid-range workstation.

I've bought SPARCstation 5 bits from Ian at www.13w3.com - you can get
better prices on eBay if you're patient, but I'm pleased with his service.
He's currently listing a SPARC 5 for £125, 17" monitor for £65.

For FreeBSD you'd want an Ultra 1 at least - 13w3.com has a 170MHz model
listed at £225, but there were problems with Solaris 64-bit kernels on
anything less that the 200MHz model (and you have to force the 200MHz
model to boot 64-bit Solaris due to a CPU bug which allows users to
crash them).  Also, you should get the 'E' suffix models for the fast
Ethernet and wide SCSI.  

The Ultra 5 is more expensive and faster, but it's PC class, not a real
Sun.

Cheers,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
"Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich."   Mark Valentine uses
"We're kind of stupid that way."   *munch* *munch*and endorses FreeBSD
  --   

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Re: Spark 5.

[Bruce M Simpson]

On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 03:17:24AM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote:
> > Do we run on Spark 5?  Someone's selling one and a monitor for 300 UK
> > pounds.  Is it worth getting hold of?
> 
> Not for FreeBSD (sun4u only, I believe); SPARC 5 is sun4m (32-bit only).

I concur. The SPARC port is for sun4u only. Unless you meant you were up for
the challenge of bootstrapping FreeBSD on sun4m (or even sun4c). ;-)

> £300 is expensive - a 170MHz SPARCstation 5 goes for £75 and up on eBay
> in the UK (without monitor), and I think a monitor will go for about £40.

I wouldn't bother with the monitor, because such things are huge, fixed
frequency thus don't work with anything else. When the PROM code detects
that no keyboard is plugged in, it should default to using ttya as a console.

If only PCs did this... one day!

> The Ultra 5 is more expensive and faster, but it's PC class, not a real
> Sun.

Agreed. Possibly one of the nastiest models Sun brought out.

BMS

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Re: Spark 5.

[Andre Hall]

You think the Ultra 5 is one of the worst models Sun released? It's 
not a real Sun? What are you guys smoking? Whatever it is I don't want 
any. :o)
The Ultra 5 are very good machines. They are a workstation/small 
server class machine and they serve their purpose very well. What? You 
don't like the fact that they have a standard VGA connection or use an 
IDE hard drive? Nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact The Ultra 
5 was probably the first Sun box that was affordable enough for most 
of us geeks to buy. If you recall, Sun has had a reputation of being 
EXTREMELY expensive. The Ultra 10 is not very different in its 
configuration either. They are very much Sun boxes. A UltraSparc CPU, 
motherboard, and lets not forget the Sun specific memory. Sounds like 
a Sun to me. I understand where you were coming from but everything 
that Sun has produced to replace the Ultra 5 is PC class. Take a look 
at the Sun Blade 100.
I picked up a Ultra 5 at Defcon this summer for $300. I got a 300MHz, 
256MB RAM and a 9GB hard drive and Solaris 9. Your points were duly 
noted. I have heard this argument before so I figured I'd chime in. 
Good day fellas.

I do have a Sparc 5 I'm either going to donate to Goodwill or sell on 
Ebay for $60 US.
 

> On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 03:17:24AM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote:
> > > Do we run on Spark 5?  Someone's selling one and a monitor for 
300 UK
> > > pounds.  Is it worth getting hold of?
> > 
> > Not for FreeBSD (sun4u only, I believe); SPARC 5 is sun4m (32-bit 
only).
> 
> I concur. The SPARC port is for sun4u only. Unless you meant you 
were up for
> the challenge of bootstrapping FreeBSD on sun4m (or even sun4c). ;-)
> 
> > £300 is expensive - a 170MHz SPARCstation 5 goes for £75 and up on 
eBay
> > in the UK (without monitor), and I think a monitor will go for 
about £40.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with the monitor, because such things are huge, 
fixed
> frequency thus don't work with anything else. When the PROM code 
detects
> that no keyboard is plugged in, it should default to using ttya as a 
console.
> 
> If only PCs did this... one day!
> 
> > The Ultra 5 is more expensive and faster, but it's PC class, not a 
real
> > Sun.
> 
> Agreed. Possibly one of the nastiest models Sun brought out.
> 
> BMS
> 
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> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 
> 

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Re: Spark 5.

[Brandon D. Valentine]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Andre Hall wrote:

> You think the Ultra 5 is one of the worst models Sun released? It's
> not a real Sun? What are you guys smoking? Whatever it is I don't want
> any. :o)

Please, for procmail's sake, take any further Sun-related bikeshed
painting to -chat.  ;-)

Brandon D. Valentine
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Re: Spark 5.

[David O'Brien]

On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 03:17:24AM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote:
> For FreeBSD you'd want an Ultra 1 at least - 13w3.com has a 170MHz model

Nope.  We don't support the U1 -- neither the Ethernet controller or the
SCSI controller.  So you can't boot from any device.  An Ultra 1e
(Enterprise) is moderately usable as it has HME Ethernet, which we do
support so you can at least use the machine diskless.

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Re: Spark 5.

[Mark Valentine]

> From: "David O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon 30 Sep, 2002
> Subject: Re: Spark 5.

> On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 03:17:24AM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote:
> > For FreeBSD you'd want an Ultra 1 at least - 13w3.com has a 170MHz model
> 
> Nope.  We don't support the U1 -- neither the Ethernet controller or the
> SCSI controller.  So you can't boot from any device.  An Ultra 1e
> (Enterprise) is moderately usable as it has HME Ethernet, which we do
> support so you can at least use the machine diskless.

Ah, thanks for that.  So, only PCI-based SCSI support?  Does that mean no
joy with an Ultra 2 either?

Cheers,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   <http://www.thuvia.co.uk>
"Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich."   Mark Valentine uses
"We're kind of stupid that way."   *munch* *munch*and endorses FreeBSD
  -- <http://www.calvinandhobbes.com>  <http://www.freebsd.org>

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Re: Spark 5.

[David O'Brien]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2002 at 05:04:47PM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote:
> > From: "David O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Mon 30 Sep, 2002
> > Subject: Re: Spark 5.
> 
> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 03:17:24AM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote:
> > > For FreeBSD you'd want an Ultra 1 at least - 13w3.com has a 170MHz model
> > 
> > Nope.  We don't support the U1 -- neither the Ethernet controller or the
> > SCSI controller.  So you can't boot from any device.  An Ultra 1e
> > (Enterprise) is moderately usable as it has HME Ethernet, which we do
> > support so you can at least use the machine diskless.
> 
> Ah, thanks for that.  So, only PCI-based SCSI support?  Does that mean no
> joy with an Ultra 2 either?

Only diskless for Ultra 2.  It isn't a issue of PCI vs. Sbus; but rather
just one of controllers.  If you happen to have an ISP1000 Sbus
controller you could use that and have diskfull support.

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