Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-05 Thread John Baldwin
On Tuesday 04 April 2006 06:40, Peter Jeremy wrote:
 On Tue, 2006-Apr-04 11:12:03 +0100, Khaled Hussain wrote:
 Why does everyone talk about dump+restore as a pair? I thought it was
 possible just to dump a filesystem to a different hard disk i.e.
 dump -0a -f /dev/ad2 /
 
 It is.  But /dev/ad2 will have a dumpfile on it, not a filesystem.
 The only thing that can then read /dev/ad2 is restore.
 
 Also, how can I find out which /boot/boot# file a freebsd system is using by
 default?
 
 None of the ones in the filesystem - these files are embedded into the
 beginning of the hard disk.
 
 One of boot0, boot0sio or mbr is located in absolute sector 0 of the disk.
 boot1 is located in sector 0 of the bootable slice
 boot2 is located in the (I think) sectors 1-15 of partition a.

Actually, boot1 + boot2 occupy sectors 0,2-15 of the bootable slice (the
a partition starts at the start of the slice to be confusing) with the
actual disklabel table in sector 1 of the slice.

-- 
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Power Users Use the Power to Serve  =  http://www.FreeBSD.org
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-05 Thread Peter Jeremy
On Wed, 2006-Apr-05 14:53:55 -0400, John Baldwin wrote:
 boot2 is located in the (I think) sectors 1-15 of partition a.

Actually, boot1 + boot2 occupy sectors 0,2-15 of the bootable slice (the
a partition starts at the start of the slice to be confusing) with the
actual disklabel table in sector 1 of the slice.

The bit that threw me was that boot2 is 15 sectors long and ends in
sector 15.  I gather it has a copy of boot1 embedded in it.

-- 
Peter Jeremy
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-05 Thread John Baldwin
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 15:15, Peter Jeremy wrote:
 On Wed, 2006-Apr-05 14:53:55 -0400, John Baldwin wrote:
  boot2 is located in the (I think) sectors 1-15 of partition a.
 
 Actually, boot1 + boot2 occupy sectors 0,2-15 of the bootable slice (the
 a partition starts at the start of the slice to be confusing) with the
 actual disklabel table in sector 1 of the slice.
 
 The bit that threw me was that boot2 is 15 sectors long and ends in
 sector 15.  I gather it has a copy of boot1 embedded in it.

Yes, there is now a /boot/boot file that is boot1 + boot2 glued together
in a single blob.  It used to be that boot1 was in sector 0 and boot2
in 2-15, but with ufs2 boot2 got slightly bigger, so we now make them
a blob IIRC to get some extra space.  phk@ did that change.

-- 
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RE: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-04 Thread Khaled Hussain
Hi guys,

Why does everyone talk about dump+restore as a pair? I thought it was
possible just to dump a filesystem to a different hard disk i.e.
dump -0a -f /dev/ad2 /

Also, how can I find out which /boot/boot# file a freebsd system is using by
default?

Kind Regards

Khaled

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of M. Warner Losh
 Sent: 29 March 2006 05:04
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
 Subject: Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD


 In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Patrick Tracanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 :
 :  I heard its faster if you use two dd's; i.e:
 : 
 : # dd if=/dev/ad0 bs=64k | dd of=/dev/ad1 bs=64k
 : 
 :  allowing read and write to proceed in parallel.
 : 
 : 
 :  that's what ddd and 'team' are for.
 :  I don't know if ddd is in the ports as it may clash inname with teh
 :  debugger ddd
 :  They internally fork and use several processes synchronised
 in some manner.
 :
 : Isn't dump+restore and a couple of fdisk+bsdlabel trick to copy the
 : source partitioning a better choice to clone this HDD?

 Yes.  That's what I *ALWAYS* do, because hard drives are never the
 exact same size.

 fdisk -I makes the fdisk part easy.  bsdlabel -R makes the disklabel
 cloning relatively painless.

 dump + restore is slow but reliabe.

 Warner
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-04 Thread Peter Jeremy
On Tue, 2006-Apr-04 11:12:03 +0100, Khaled Hussain wrote:
Why does everyone talk about dump+restore as a pair? I thought it was
possible just to dump a filesystem to a different hard disk i.e.
dump -0a -f /dev/ad2 /

It is.  But /dev/ad2 will have a dumpfile on it, not a filesystem.
The only thing that can then read /dev/ad2 is restore.

Also, how can I find out which /boot/boot# file a freebsd system is using by
default?

None of the ones in the filesystem - these files are embedded into the
beginning of the hard disk.

One of boot0, boot0sio or mbr is located in absolute sector 0 of the disk.
boot1 is located in sector 0 of the bootable slice
boot2 is located in the (I think) sectors 1-15 of partition a.

-- 
Peter Jeremy
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RE: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-04 Thread Khaled Hussain
Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for the clarification...at the moment I am trying to set a boot
manager on my disk but am unsure which slice to set as the default boot
selection when using the boot0cfg command.

boot0cfg -Bv -s? ad2

disklabel -r ad0 (on a different bsd system) gives:

8 partitions:
#size   offsetfstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
  a:   20480004.2BSD0 0 0   # (Cyl.0 - 12*)
  b:  2104640   204800  swap# (Cyl.   12*- 143*)
  c: 1172583720unused0 0# (Cyl.0 -
7298*)
  e:40960  23094404.2BSD0 0 0   # (Cyl.  143*- 146*)
  f: 114907972  23504004.2BSD0 0 0  # (Cyl.  146*-
7298*)


Am I correct in assuming that a: is slice 1, b: is slice 2, etc?

If so then the slice to make bootable would be slice 3 in the following
setup (which is my disk):

8 partitions:
#size   offsetfstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
  b:  2048642 310528000  swap   # (Cyl. 19329*-
19456*)
  c: 3125766420unused0 0# (Cyl.0 -
19456*)
  e: 31052800004.2BSD0 0 0  # (Cyl.0 -
19329*)

Kind Regards

Khaled


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Jeremy
 Sent: 04 April 2006 11:41
 To: Khaled Hussain
 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers
 Subject: Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD


 On Tue, 2006-Apr-04 11:12:03 +0100, Khaled Hussain wrote:
 Why does everyone talk about dump+restore as a pair? I thought it was
 possible just to dump a filesystem to a different hard disk i.e.
 dump -0a -f /dev/ad2 /

 It is.  But /dev/ad2 will have a dumpfile on it, not a filesystem.
 The only thing that can then read /dev/ad2 is restore.

 Also, how can I find out which /boot/boot# file a freebsd system
 is using by
 default?

 None of the ones in the filesystem - these files are embedded into the
 beginning of the hard disk.

 One of boot0, boot0sio or mbr is located in absolute sector 0 of the disk.
 boot1 is located in sector 0 of the bootable slice
 boot2 is located in the (I think) sectors 1-15 of partition a.

 --
 Peter Jeremy
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-04 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Khaled Hussain [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Why does everyone talk about dump+restore as a pair? I thought it was
: possible just to dump a filesystem to a different hard disk i.e.
: dump -0a -f /dev/ad2 /

because that will create a dump file on ad2, not a filesystem that can
be read by the kernel.

: Also, how can I find out which /boot/boot# file a freebsd system is using by
: default?

I don't understand that question.

Warner

: Kind Regards
: 
: Khaled
: 
:  -Original Message-
:  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of M. Warner Losh
:  Sent: 29 March 2006 05:04
:  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
:  Subject: Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD
: 
: 
:  In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  Patrick Tracanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
:  :
:  :  I heard its faster if you use two dd's; i.e:
:  : 
:  : # dd if=/dev/ad0 bs=64k | dd of=/dev/ad1 bs=64k
:  : 
:  :  allowing read and write to proceed in parallel.
:  : 
:  : 
:  :  that's what ddd and 'team' are for.
:  :  I don't know if ddd is in the ports as it may clash inname with teh
:  :  debugger ddd
:  :  They internally fork and use several processes synchronised
:  in some manner.
:  :
:  : Isn't dump+restore and a couple of fdisk+bsdlabel trick to copy the
:  : source partitioning a better choice to clone this HDD?
: 
:  Yes.  That's what I *ALWAYS* do, because hard drives are never the
:  exact same size.
: 
:  fdisk -I makes the fdisk part easy.  bsdlabel -R makes the disklabel
:  cloning relatively painless.
: 
:  dump + restore is slow but reliabe.
: 
:  Warner
:  ___
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-04-04 Thread Darren Pilgrim

Khaled Hussain wrote:

Thanks for the clarification...at the moment I am trying to set a boot
manager on my disk but am unsure which slice to set as the default boot
selection when using the boot0cfg command.

boot0cfg -Bv -s? ad2

disklabel -r ad0 (on a different bsd system) gives:

8 partitions:
#size   offsetfstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
  a:   20480004.2BSD0 0 0   # (Cyl.0 - 12*)
  b:  2104640   204800  swap# (Cyl.   12*- 143*)
  c: 1172583720unused0 0# (Cyl.0 -
7298*)
  e:40960  23094404.2BSD0 0 0   # (Cyl.  143*- 146*)
  f: 114907972  23504004.2BSD0 0 0  # (Cyl.  146*-
7298*)


Am I correct in assuming that a: is slice 1, b: is slice 2, etc?


No.  The above is the label inside a single slice.  a: is the first 
partition within that slice.  Use fdisk to look at your slices.  If you 
really are getting the above from /dev/ad2 rather than /dev/ad2sN where N is 
a number from 1 to 4, then it's in dedicated mode and the issue is moot, 
since there's no slice table.


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RE: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-31 Thread Andresen, Jason
One further thing you might want to consider is a project out of the
University of Utah called Emulab.  I've been using the free client on
there to dump and restore disks for a couple of years now.  The
advantage over dump/restore and especially dd is that it's _fast_.  On
my systems here I can get a GB or two per minute (admittedly over
Gigabit ethernet).  

Also, it's designed to work over the network, making it easy to store
your filesystem dumps on a central repository.  

http://www.emulab.net/

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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-30 Thread Patrick Tracanelli

John-Mark Gurney wrote:

Patrick Tracanelli wrote this message on Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 10:14 -0300:


Daniel O'Connor wrote:


On Wednesday 29 March 2006 14:34, M. Warner Losh wrote:



dump + restore is slow but reliabe.



Faster than dd for disks that aren't full :)

It also gives you a defrag as well as allowing you to change FS options.


Yes, pretty much faster for non-full disks, even compared to paralell 
dd(1). And we always have the -L option to snapshot and dump(1) from 
live file systems, what makes it an interesting and completly viable 
choice to clone the disks in multiuser mode (no need to go single user).


It is my choice to copy a disk into one other. It is even possible to 
copy a disk to a slower one (again, if the source is not full and if the 
dst disk have enough space to store all data currently in use in the 
source disk), and better (customizable new partitions) results when 
copying to a larger second disk, when compared to dd(1).



Though if you are using extended attributes, the dump/restore pair won't
transfer them...  :(



You are right, I am afraid it is true for ACLs and other MAC modules 
too. Sadly dump does not know about 'em (yet?). So it is really 
something to consider when backin' up full disks with the dump|restore 
pair, if the person use more sophisticated FS attributes.


--
Patrick Tracanelli

FreeBSD Brasil LTDA.
(31) 3281-9633 / 3281-3547
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.freebsdbrasil.com.br
Long live Hanin Elias, Kim Deal!

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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-29 Thread Daniel O'Connor
On Wednesday 29 March 2006 14:34, M. Warner Losh wrote:
 dump + restore is slow but reliabe.

Faster than dd for disks that aren't full :)

It also gives you a defrag as well as allowing you to change FS options.

-- 
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from.
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum
GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C


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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-29 Thread Patrick Tracanelli

Daniel O'Connor wrote:

On Wednesday 29 March 2006 14:34, M. Warner Losh wrote:


dump + restore is slow but reliabe.



Faster than dd for disks that aren't full :)

It also gives you a defrag as well as allowing you to change FS options.


Yes, pretty much faster for non-full disks, even compared to paralell 
dd(1). And we always have the -L option to snapshot and dump(1) from 
live file systems, what makes it an interesting and completly viable 
choice to clone the disks in multiuser mode (no need to go single user).


It is my choice to copy a disk into one other. It is even possible to 
copy a disk to a slower one (again, if the source is not full and if the 
dst disk have enough space to store all data currently in use in the 
source disk), and better (customizable new partitions) results when 
copying to a larger second disk, when compared to dd(1).


--
Patrick Tracanelli

FreeBSD Brasil LTDA.
(31) 3281-9633 / 3281-3547
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.freebsdbrasil.com.br
Long live Hanin Elias, Kim Deal!

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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-29 Thread Kurt J. Lidl
On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 10:14:19AM -0300, Patrick Tracanelli wrote:
 Daniel O'Connor wrote:
 On Wednesday 29 March 2006 14:34, M. Warner Losh wrote:
 
 dump + restore is slow but reliabe.
 
 Faster than dd for disks that aren't full :)
 
 It also gives you a defrag as well as allowing you to change FS options.
 
 Yes, pretty much faster for non-full disks, even compared to paralell 
 dd(1). And we always have the -L option to snapshot and dump(1) from 
 live file systems, what makes it an interesting and completly viable 
 choice to clone the disks in multiuser mode (no need to go single user).

In a prior life, I had to generate a bunch (50 or 60) disk images
from a master server image.  The server image was updated periodically,
so we decided to always go for doing it on the fly, rather than
just restoring a known-good dumpfile from some place. (Questionable
in hindsight, but...)

Anyhow, we were using SCSI disks, so I got a shelf full of scsi
disk canisters (since we had standardized on a particular one) and
then wrote a zsh script to do the dumping.  Zsh has a particular
ability to have it duplicate the contents of a single input
stream to multiple output streams.  So we would fire up one
dump on the master disk, and then pipe the output to multiple
copies of restore running (one per disk) simultaneously.  It was
way faster than doing them sequentially.

And, impressive to watch the access lights on the drives when you
were making seven disk drives copies at once...

-Kurt
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-29 Thread John-Mark Gurney
Patrick Tracanelli wrote this message on Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 10:14 -0300:
 Daniel O'Connor wrote:
 On Wednesday 29 March 2006 14:34, M. Warner Losh wrote:
 
 dump + restore is slow but reliabe.
 
 
 Faster than dd for disks that aren't full :)
 
 It also gives you a defrag as well as allowing you to change FS options.
 
 Yes, pretty much faster for non-full disks, even compared to paralell 
 dd(1). And we always have the -L option to snapshot and dump(1) from 
 live file systems, what makes it an interesting and completly viable 
 choice to clone the disks in multiuser mode (no need to go single user).
 
 It is my choice to copy a disk into one other. It is even possible to 
 copy a disk to a slower one (again, if the source is not full and if the 
 dst disk have enough space to store all data currently in use in the 
 source disk), and better (customizable new partitions) results when 
 copying to a larger second disk, when compared to dd(1).

Though if you are using extended attributes, the dump/restore pair won't
transfer them...  :(

-- 
  John-Mark Gurney  Voice: +1 415 225 5579

 All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not.
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-28 Thread Joe Koberg

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Saturday 25 March 2006 04:42, Mike Meyer wrote:


One thing: 1m is a bit small for modern systems. Or for not-so-modern
systems. Since nothing else is running, you might as well use all the
memory you've got, or as big as you can get a process to be. 128m or
more is perfectly reasonable.
  

It won't go any faster..

In a modern system the CPU is so much faster than the disk than anything above 
about 16k would be enough.



I found 64k to be optimal (e.g, max performance) on most machines

  

I heard its faster if you use two dd's; i.e:

   # dd if=/dev/ad0 bs=64k | dd of=/dev/ad1 bs=64k

allowing read and write to proceed in parallel.

Joe Koberg
joe at osoft dot us


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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-28 Thread Julian Elischer

Joe Koberg wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Saturday 25 March 2006 04:42, Mike Meyer wrote:
   


One thing: 1m is a bit small for modern systems. Or for not-so-modern
systems. Since nothing else is running, you might as well use all the
memory you've got, or as big as you can get a process to be. 128m or
more is perfectly reasonable.
  


It won't go any faster..

In a modern system the CPU is so much faster than the disk than 
anything above about 16k would be enough.




I found 64k to be optimal (e.g, max performance) on most machines

  


I heard its faster if you use two dd's; i.e:

   # dd if=/dev/ad0 bs=64k | dd of=/dev/ad1 bs=64k

allowing read and write to proceed in parallel.


that's what ddd and 'team' are for.
I don't know if ddd is in the ports as it may clash inname with teh 
debugger ddd

They internally fork and use several processes synchronised in some manner.



Joe Koberg
joe at osoft dot us


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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-28 Thread Patrick Tracanelli



I heard its faster if you use two dd's; i.e:

   # dd if=/dev/ad0 bs=64k | dd of=/dev/ad1 bs=64k

allowing read and write to proceed in parallel.



that's what ddd and 'team' are for.
I don't know if ddd is in the ports as it may clash inname with teh 
debugger ddd

They internally fork and use several processes synchronised in some manner.


Isn't dump+restore and a couple of fdisk+bsdlabel trick to copy the 
source partitioning a better choice to clone this HDD?


--
Patrick Tracanelli

(31) 3281-9633 / 3281-3547
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-28 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Patrick Tracanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: 
:  I heard its faster if you use two dd's; i.e:
: 
: # dd if=/dev/ad0 bs=64k | dd of=/dev/ad1 bs=64k
: 
:  allowing read and write to proceed in parallel.
:  
:  
:  that's what ddd and 'team' are for.
:  I don't know if ddd is in the ports as it may clash inname with teh 
:  debugger ddd
:  They internally fork and use several processes synchronised in some manner.
: 
: Isn't dump+restore and a couple of fdisk+bsdlabel trick to copy the 
: source partitioning a better choice to clone this HDD?

Yes.  That's what I *ALWAYS* do, because hard drives are never the
exact same size.

fdisk -I makes the fdisk part easy.  bsdlabel -R makes the disklabel
cloning relatively painless.

dump + restore is slow but reliabe.

Warner
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-27 Thread Mike Meyer
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
 On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 06:19:13PM +0100, Dirk GOUDERS wrote:
 Without reading it, I would first try this, it's quite straightforward
 
 * boot into single user mode (enter boot -s at loader prompt)
 * make sure filesystems are mounted readonly (mount)
 dd if=/dev/ad0 of=/dev/ad1 bs=1m
 (where ad0 is your disk with data and ad1 is your new disk, make sure
 you do not swap them :)

Doesn't really matter in single user mode - you'll just copy the swap
over. But yeah, this procedure works fine for me in the past.

One thing: 1m is a bit small for modern systems. Or for not-so-modern
systems. Since nothing else is running, you might as well use all the
memory you've got, or as big as you can get a process to be. 128m or
more is perfectly reasonable.

mike
-- 
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Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-27 Thread Daniel O'Connor
On Saturday 25 March 2006 04:42, Mike Meyer wrote:
 One thing: 1m is a bit small for modern systems. Or for not-so-modern
 systems. Since nothing else is running, you might as well use all the
 memory you've got, or as big as you can get a process to be. 128m or
 more is perfectly reasonable.

It won't go any faster..

In a modern system the CPU is so much faster than the disk than anything above 
about 16k would be enough.

-- 
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from.
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum
GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C


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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-27 Thread soralx

 On Saturday 25 March 2006 04:42, Mike Meyer wrote:
  One thing: 1m is a bit small for modern systems. Or for not-so-modern
  systems. Since nothing else is running, you might as well use all the
  memory you've got, or as big as you can get a process to be. 128m or
  more is perfectly reasonable.
 
 It won't go any faster..
 
 In a modern system the CPU is so much faster than the disk than anything 
 above 
 about 16k would be enough.

I found 64k to be optimal (e.g, max performance) on most machines

Timestamp: 0x4428D30F
[SorAlx]  http://cydem.org.ua/
ridin' VN1500-B2
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-24 Thread Dirk GOUDERS
Hi,

 This is my first day on the list so please pardon me if I am on the wrong
 list and any mistakes I make.
 
 I would like to create a bootable clone of a HDD running BSD version 4.8. I
 have experience of cloning linux machines successfully but understand that
 freebsd is a little different.

please, try to clone your disk as described in the FAQ
9.2. How do I move my system over to my huge new disk?:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html#NEW-HUGE-DISK

Following that advice results in a bootable clone of your disk.

Dirk
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Re: cloning a FreeBSD HDD

2006-03-24 Thread Vasil Dimov
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 06:19:13PM +0100, Dirk GOUDERS wrote:
 Hi,
 
  This is my first day on the list so please pardon me if I am on the wrong
  list and any mistakes I make.
  
  I would like to create a bootable clone of a HDD running BSD version 4.8. I
  have experience of cloning linux machines successfully but understand that
  freebsd is a little different.
 
 please, try to clone your disk as described in the FAQ
 9.2. How do I move my system over to my huge new disk?:
 
 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html#NEW-HUGE-DISK
 
Without reading it, I would first try this, it's quite straightforward

* boot into single user mode (enter boot -s at loader prompt)
* make sure filesystems are mounted readonly (mount)
dd if=/dev/ad0 of=/dev/ad1 bs=1m
(where ad0 is your disk with data and ad1 is your new disk, make sure
you do not swap them :)

-- 
Vasil Dimov
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Testing can show the presence of bugs, but not their absence.
-- Edsger W. Dijkstra
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