Re: The "right" way to build a new world WAS: 4.3-BETA world crashin g 4.2-RELEASE kernel ?
On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 06:01:16PM -0700, Matt Simerson wrote: > OK, let's approach this from a little different angle: > > Below is the appropriate entries from /usr/src/UPDATING on a FreeBSD > 4-stable machine. As of 2/2/2001, the most correct and safest method for > updating your FreeBSD machine is as follows: > >cd /usr/src >make buildworld >make kernel KERNCONF= >reboot (single user) >make installworld >mergemaster >reboot > > I have found that there IS a variety of reasons NOT to do it that way. The > most obvious is that you might not have console access, thus making it > pretty hard to access the machine while it's in single user mode. I can also > think of a couple instances where this method could cause pain. OK, some of your reasons stated below are valid, some are not quite so; in particular, the procedure you are following - running the buildworld and buildkernel at the same time - is not only not-quite-right, but also potentially dangerous - AFAIK, the buildkernel process uses compiler bits from /usr/obj, which might get changed during the compile, leaving you with largely incompatible object/executable files, and no error messages. I understand your reason for wanting both to complete when you get back to work; are you aware that make(1) can process more than one target on the command line, and only build the second target if the first one finishes successfully? What I do is, usually at the end of the day: mergemaster # mergemaster is interactive, yes, but it doesn't # take too much time ;) # and it is sometimes SORELY needed if e.g. mtree files # have changed, potentially breaking the subsequent builds make buildworld buildkernel installkernel installworld # (and I have a KERNCONF?=whatever in my /etc/make.conf) ..thus having the best of both worlds :) G'luck, Peter -- This would easier understand fewer had omitted. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: The "right" way to build a new world WAS: 4.3-BETA world crashin g 4.2-RELEASE kernel ?
In message <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B544@0SEA01EXSRV1> "Matt Simerson" writes: : I have found that there IS a variety of reasons NOT to do it that way. The : most obvious is that you might not have console access, thus making it : pretty hard to access the machine while it's in single user mode. I can also : think of a couple instances where this method could cause pain. The most obvious reason to do it is that it works. Updating a system can cause pain. Get used to it. There are often times that many of the binaries that are running in multiuser mode can crash your system, so you can't get up into multi user. On major upgrades, you can't even get through the installworld with the old kernel. Having said that, I have often done things not in single user when the jumps were small. I usually get away with it, but have at times really hozed my system. Once or twice to the point I had to take the disk out of the machine and over to a working machine for touch ups. : The first is changing of any of the files used at boot time. I don't allow : telnet access to any of my machines so SSH is often as close as I can get to : console. If anything changes enough that we don't cleanly make it through rc : and friends, processing stops, sshd won't be running and I can't get in. The : one time this happened the machine didn't make it multi user. Fortunately : that machine was in my basement so I walked down, looked at the errors on : the console and finished the upgrade. mountd is a big one why we wouldn't get through rc. I've had it crash the new kernel due to weaknesses in the kernel/user api that it uses. : IPFW changes. This one isn't quite obvious but if you don't compile your : kernel with IPFW_DEFAULT_TO_ACCEPT and changes are made to the kernel or : userland portions and not the other (as will happen in the above scenario) : then upon reboot, if your ruleset doesn't get applied, you won't be able to : access your machine via the network. Ouch. I always compile in the : DEFAULT_TO_ACCEPT for this reason and then add a default deny rule to the : IFPW ruleset. Even so, I find it's best to get my kernel, world, and config : files synced before rebooting. This introduces other problems. In the interrum between ifconfig and ipfw you are wide open to the world. Many attacks only need a few packets to gain root. :cd /usr/src :make buildworld :make kernel KERNCONF= :make installworld :mergemaster :reboot :cd /usr/src :make installkernel KERNEL= Why install the kernel twice? make kernel installs the kernel. : One can also often get away with making a new kernel without first building : world but do so at your own peril (as I often do). :-) I often issue the : buildkernel and buildworld at the same time and then leave for the day. My : reasons for doing this are: laziness, impatience, and wanting to have the : entire compilation done when I return. Doing so can be risky but in my : experience, works just fine with the -stable tree. Others have been quick to : point out the possible hazards of doing so but they mostly apply when : playing with -current. You can also run into problems with -stable. I've run into those problems. It is espeically accute when updating 4.0 machines to 4.3, for example. You are dodging a minefield in doing things this way. You'll also get better milage out of make -j N (say 3 or 4) and doing things sequentially. It is safer and runs just as fast. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: The "right" way to build a new world WAS: 4.3-BETA world crashin g 4.2-RELEASE kernel ?
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Warner Losh wrote: > You'll also get better milage out of make -j N (say 3 or 4) and doing > things sequentially. It is safer and runs just as fast. Dunno if it was a temporary compile problem, but I've actually found that: make -j 3 buildkernel hasn't worked properly for me. Either it was a temporary thing and may be fixed now, or it's a property of the buildkernel dependencies, and should probably be fixed (my kernel build is substantially faster with just a bit of parallelism to keep the CPU busy). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project [EMAIL PROTECTED] NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: The "right" way to build a new world WAS: 4.3-BETA world crashin g 4.2-RELEASE kernel ?
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Robert Watson writes: : On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Warner Losh wrote: : : > You'll also get better milage out of make -j N (say 3 or 4) and doing : > things sequentially. It is safer and runs just as fast. : : Dunno if it was a temporary compile problem, but I've actually found that: : : make -j 3 buildkernel : : hasn't worked properly for me. Either it was a temporary thing and may be : fixed now, or it's a property of the buildkernel dependencies, and should : probably be fixed (my kernel build is substantially faster with just a bit : of parallelism to keep the CPU busy). I think that it works. I know that the "old way" works with -j values up to 20 (haven't tried anything higher). There were issues with -j for a while, but those have been fixed. They were inadvertantly introduced when we went to building modules. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
