Re: maintaining ports and mono

[Russell Haley]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Aaron Havens  wrote:
> Has any work started on a port for the .NET Core? I have looked at it and
> worked on getting the build instructions updated in GitHub but ran out of
> time. If someone is working on it I would be willing to see what they were
> working on and if I could chip in.

I had .net Core working many many moons ago but it required that you
build binaries (runtime?) on a Windows machine and then transfer them
over. I will check if I still have notes.

>
> Aaron
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Mathieu Prevot 
> wrote:
>
>> 2016-06-17 9:08 GMT+02:00 Ivan Radovanovic :
>>
>> > On 06/16/2016 21:53, Mathieu Prevot napisa:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2016-06-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Russell Haley > >> >:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Mathieu,
>> >>
>> >> I have expressed interest in helping maintain mono on FreeBSD but
>> have
>> >> moved away due to lack of interest and support. Currently someone
>> has
>> >> ported more recent versions of Mono (Romain I think?), but
>> MonoDevelop
>> >> is somewhat out of date. I had patches to build MonoDevelop with
>> >> Rolsyn but couldn't get the MonoDevelop github repos to work with
>> >> FreeBSD ports so I gave up after multiple requests for help on both
>> >> this mailing list and the FreeBSD forum.
>> >>
>> >> Other .Net things I'd like to see:
>> >> - Ivan had some patches for kqueue issues, he passed them on to me
>> but
>> >> again, I have moved away from .net on FreeBSD
>> >> - I would like to see a port of Pinta on FreeBSD
>> >> (https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/) because gimp makes
>> me
>> >> want to throw my computer
>> >> - I once built and ran .Net Core and would like to see if that has
>> >> progressed, perhaps put together a FreeBSD port for it. The ultimate
>> >> goal in my mind is to update MonoDevelop to use .net Core
>> >> - Porting and testing asp.net  and MVC to FreeBSD
>> >> - Testing the latest mono on FreeBSD CURRENT for ARM
>> >>
>> >> I had also at one point seen a possible business model helping
>> clients
>> >> get their .net software off of Windows to save $$$ and create
>> >> resalable appliances, but that idea died on the vine.
>> >>
>> >> Ultimately, there are so many development options on FreeBSD, I
>> moved
>> >> to something that was better supported (lua), but I really really
>> miss
>> >> that big beautiful framework. I guess there's always Java, or
>> Python,
>> >> or Ruby... :(
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There are many points here, from .NET to IDEs and business.
>> >>
>> >> IMHO having .NET framework work is good, APS.NET  too.
>> >> Ultimately, having WPF too would be amazing. I'm planing to probe this
>> >> with the WPF team.
>> >> There is request on UserVoice (Microsoft interface for feedback and
>> >> features requests) of opening WPF sources, which is possible.
>> >> Microsoft recent policy is to make Windows the #1 platform for software
>> >> development, and have GNU tools work natively in Windows.
>> >> Their Azure platform now supports FreeBSD 10.3 VM.
>> >> Despite everything, they will want probably to make sure Windows still
>> >> have competitive advantages, making the WPF and ASP.net not that likely
>> >> to be available/ported/opened.
>> >>
>> >> Historically and to my knowledge, GNU/Linux was used for desktop at
>> >> Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers. Having FreeBSD a stronger dev
>> >> platform is questionable and might require a lot of energy/time/effort
>> >> from the community.
>> >>
>> >> Have you tried java/javaFX/openGL ?
>> >>
>> >> M
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Hi Mathieu,
>> >
>> > IMHO opinion there is no interest to have Mono running properly on
>> FreeBSD
>> > from either side. Original mono developers are even proud to say they
>> don't
>> > care about having it run on *BSD,
>> >
>>
>> Do you have reference to such thing ? list archive ? I think it might be
>> right in the past, the teams might have changed, and the mindset might have
>> changed, and ultimately, does it matter ?
>>
>>
>> > and I guess based on amount of feedback you got on this list you can draw
>> > your own conclusions about enthusiasm coming from this side.
>> >
>>
>> I understand this too. However, people are not necessarily fast and
>> everything. People have also their own projects, preoccupations,
>> availability / will / time. I give few days to get the temperature of the
>> community.
>>
>> My mindset is not: do we need this, but rather: what can we do with this ?
>> and: which opportunities does this brings to FreeBSD ?
>> And then: what am I willing to give in term of time/energy for this ?
>>
>> For enterprise purposes, often productivity comes first, and results,
>> warranties comes first, and in that case, people are willing to pay (say
>> Microsoft) to have a certain level of productivity and results.
>>
>> Then there is their policy:

Re: maintaining ports and mono

[Carsten Larsen]

Just a few pointers:
- Microsoft bought Xamarin who officially maintains Mono not long time ago.
- dotnet core is not mature yet. Current version is a release candidate 2.
- Microsoft seems to move towards utilizing the benefits of FreeBSD. It 
is available on Azure now, etc.

- SQL Server 2016 has been released to Linux in a preview version.
- /Visual Studio Code has been released to Linux.

/All of the above are really big changes and I think it is too early to 
judge if .NET/Mono development makes any sense on FreeBSD.


Carsten Larsen


Den 18-06-2016 kl. 00:24 skrev Mathieu Prevot:

2016-06-17 23:59 GMT+02:00 Aaron Havens :


Has any work started on a port for the .NET Core? I have looked at it and
worked on getting the build instructions updated in GitHub but ran out of
time. If someone is working on it I would be willing to see what they were
working on and if I could chip in.


I saw no pointer from mono.org but these old pages (please Romain, head up)

http://www.mono-project.com/archived/monofreebsd/
https://code.google.com/archive/p/bsd-sharp/

What I see is that Romain started some work for years, but it died few
years ago.

M

PS Aaron, please bottom post for readability purposes ;)
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Re: maintaining ports and mono

[Mathieu Prevot]

2016-06-17 23:59 GMT+02:00 Aaron Havens :

> Has any work started on a port for the .NET Core? I have looked at it and
> worked on getting the build instructions updated in GitHub but ran out of
> time. If someone is working on it I would be willing to see what they were
> working on and if I could chip in.
>

I saw no pointer from mono.org but these old pages (please Romain, head up)

http://www.mono-project.com/archived/monofreebsd/
https://code.google.com/archive/p/bsd-sharp/

What I see is that Romain started some work for years, but it died few
years ago.

M

PS Aaron, please bottom post for readability purposes ;)
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Re: maintaining ports and mono

[Aaron Havens]

Has any work started on a port for the .NET Core? I have looked at it and
worked on getting the build instructions updated in GitHub but ran out of
time. If someone is working on it I would be willing to see what they were
working on and if I could chip in.

Aaron

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Mathieu Prevot 
wrote:

> 2016-06-17 9:08 GMT+02:00 Ivan Radovanovic :
>
> > On 06/16/2016 21:53, Mathieu Prevot napisa:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> 2016-06-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Russell Haley  >> >:
> >>
> >> Hi Mathieu,
> >>
> >> I have expressed interest in helping maintain mono on FreeBSD but
> have
> >> moved away due to lack of interest and support. Currently someone
> has
> >> ported more recent versions of Mono (Romain I think?), but
> MonoDevelop
> >> is somewhat out of date. I had patches to build MonoDevelop with
> >> Rolsyn but couldn't get the MonoDevelop github repos to work with
> >> FreeBSD ports so I gave up after multiple requests for help on both
> >> this mailing list and the FreeBSD forum.
> >>
> >> Other .Net things I'd like to see:
> >> - Ivan had some patches for kqueue issues, he passed them on to me
> but
> >> again, I have moved away from .net on FreeBSD
> >> - I would like to see a port of Pinta on FreeBSD
> >> (https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/) because gimp makes
> me
> >> want to throw my computer
> >> - I once built and ran .Net Core and would like to see if that has
> >> progressed, perhaps put together a FreeBSD port for it. The ultimate
> >> goal in my mind is to update MonoDevelop to use .net Core
> >> - Porting and testing asp.net  and MVC to FreeBSD
> >> - Testing the latest mono on FreeBSD CURRENT for ARM
> >>
> >> I had also at one point seen a possible business model helping
> clients
> >> get their .net software off of Windows to save $$$ and create
> >> resalable appliances, but that idea died on the vine.
> >>
> >> Ultimately, there are so many development options on FreeBSD, I
> moved
> >> to something that was better supported (lua), but I really really
> miss
> >> that big beautiful framework. I guess there's always Java, or
> Python,
> >> or Ruby... :(
> >>
> >>
> >> There are many points here, from .NET to IDEs and business.
> >>
> >> IMHO having .NET framework work is good, APS.NET  too.
> >> Ultimately, having WPF too would be amazing. I'm planing to probe this
> >> with the WPF team.
> >> There is request on UserVoice (Microsoft interface for feedback and
> >> features requests) of opening WPF sources, which is possible.
> >> Microsoft recent policy is to make Windows the #1 platform for software
> >> development, and have GNU tools work natively in Windows.
> >> Their Azure platform now supports FreeBSD 10.3 VM.
> >> Despite everything, they will want probably to make sure Windows still
> >> have competitive advantages, making the WPF and ASP.net not that likely
> >> to be available/ported/opened.
> >>
> >> Historically and to my knowledge, GNU/Linux was used for desktop at
> >> Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers. Having FreeBSD a stronger dev
> >> platform is questionable and might require a lot of energy/time/effort
> >> from the community.
> >>
> >> Have you tried java/javaFX/openGL ?
> >>
> >> M
> >>
> >>
> > Hi Mathieu,
> >
> > IMHO opinion there is no interest to have Mono running properly on
> FreeBSD
> > from either side. Original mono developers are even proud to say they
> don't
> > care about having it run on *BSD,
> >
>
> Do you have reference to such thing ? list archive ? I think it might be
> right in the past, the teams might have changed, and the mindset might have
> changed, and ultimately, does it matter ?
>
>
> > and I guess based on amount of feedback you got on this list you can draw
> > your own conclusions about enthusiasm coming from this side.
> >
>
> I understand this too. However, people are not necessarily fast and
> everything. People have also their own projects, preoccupations,
> availability / will / time. I give few days to get the temperature of the
> community.
>
> My mindset is not: do we need this, but rather: what can we do with this ?
> and: which opportunities does this brings to FreeBSD ?
> And then: what am I willing to give in term of time/energy for this ?
>
> For enterprise purposes, often productivity comes first, and results,
> warranties comes first, and in that case, people are willing to pay (say
> Microsoft) to have a certain level of productivity and results.
>
> Then there is their policy: do we spend more money on dev man power, or
> more in proprietary software, or hardware ? just policy, IMO.
>
>
> > We at company still have some production ASP.Net applications we are
> > running using mono/FreeBSD with some patches I wrote both for mono and
> > their fastcgi server, but AFAIK those never found their way either to
> > FreeBSD port or main 

Re: maintaining ports and mono

[Mathieu Prevot]

2016-06-17 9:08 GMT+02:00 Ivan Radovanovic :

> On 06/16/2016 21:53, Mathieu Prevot napisa:
>
>>
>>
>> 2016-06-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Russell Haley > >:
>>
>> Hi Mathieu,
>>
>> I have expressed interest in helping maintain mono on FreeBSD but have
>> moved away due to lack of interest and support. Currently someone has
>> ported more recent versions of Mono (Romain I think?), but MonoDevelop
>> is somewhat out of date. I had patches to build MonoDevelop with
>> Rolsyn but couldn't get the MonoDevelop github repos to work with
>> FreeBSD ports so I gave up after multiple requests for help on both
>> this mailing list and the FreeBSD forum.
>>
>> Other .Net things I'd like to see:
>> - Ivan had some patches for kqueue issues, he passed them on to me but
>> again, I have moved away from .net on FreeBSD
>> - I would like to see a port of Pinta on FreeBSD
>> (https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/) because gimp makes me
>> want to throw my computer
>> - I once built and ran .Net Core and would like to see if that has
>> progressed, perhaps put together a FreeBSD port for it. The ultimate
>> goal in my mind is to update MonoDevelop to use .net Core
>> - Porting and testing asp.net  and MVC to FreeBSD
>> - Testing the latest mono on FreeBSD CURRENT for ARM
>>
>> I had also at one point seen a possible business model helping clients
>> get their .net software off of Windows to save $$$ and create
>> resalable appliances, but that idea died on the vine.
>>
>> Ultimately, there are so many development options on FreeBSD, I moved
>> to something that was better supported (lua), but I really really miss
>> that big beautiful framework. I guess there's always Java, or Python,
>> or Ruby... :(
>>
>>
>> There are many points here, from .NET to IDEs and business.
>>
>> IMHO having .NET framework work is good, APS.NET  too.
>> Ultimately, having WPF too would be amazing. I'm planing to probe this
>> with the WPF team.
>> There is request on UserVoice (Microsoft interface for feedback and
>> features requests) of opening WPF sources, which is possible.
>> Microsoft recent policy is to make Windows the #1 platform for software
>> development, and have GNU tools work natively in Windows.
>> Their Azure platform now supports FreeBSD 10.3 VM.
>> Despite everything, they will want probably to make sure Windows still
>> have competitive advantages, making the WPF and ASP.net not that likely
>> to be available/ported/opened.
>>
>> Historically and to my knowledge, GNU/Linux was used for desktop at
>> Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers. Having FreeBSD a stronger dev
>> platform is questionable and might require a lot of energy/time/effort
>> from the community.
>>
>> Have you tried java/javaFX/openGL ?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
> Hi Mathieu,
>
> IMHO opinion there is no interest to have Mono running properly on FreeBSD
> from either side. Original mono developers are even proud to say they don't
> care about having it run on *BSD,
>

Do you have reference to such thing ? list archive ? I think it might be
right in the past, the teams might have changed, and the mindset might have
changed, and ultimately, does it matter ?


> and I guess based on amount of feedback you got on this list you can draw
> your own conclusions about enthusiasm coming from this side.
>

I understand this too. However, people are not necessarily fast and
everything. People have also their own projects, preoccupations,
availability / will / time. I give few days to get the temperature of the
community.

My mindset is not: do we need this, but rather: what can we do with this ?
and: which opportunities does this brings to FreeBSD ?
And then: what am I willing to give in term of time/energy for this ?

For enterprise purposes, often productivity comes first, and results,
warranties comes first, and in that case, people are willing to pay (say
Microsoft) to have a certain level of productivity and results.

Then there is their policy: do we spend more money on dev man power, or
more in proprietary software, or hardware ? just policy, IMO.


> We at company still have some production ASP.Net applications we are
> running using mono/FreeBSD with some patches I wrote both for mono and
> their fastcgi server, but AFAIK those never found their way either to
> FreeBSD port or main mono repository, and I really don't have enough time
> to spend it convincing people to use free source I wrote - what is
> interesting web server patches fix some OS independent bugs with socket
> handling they have, but maybe they thought they were also FreeBSD related
> :-)
>

Sounds really good :) Do you have an idea of the amount of lines / hours to
do such thing ? I keep all that in mind ! I keep probing and will come back
to you. Many thanks for proposing this.


> I think there is also problem with attitude with mono guys - i

Re: maintaining ports and mono

[Ivan Radovanovic]

On 06/16/2016 21:53, Mathieu Prevot napisa:



2016-06-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Russell Haley mailto:russ.ha...@gmail.com>>:

Hi Mathieu,

I have expressed interest in helping maintain mono on FreeBSD but have
moved away due to lack of interest and support. Currently someone has
ported more recent versions of Mono (Romain I think?), but MonoDevelop
is somewhat out of date. I had patches to build MonoDevelop with
Rolsyn but couldn't get the MonoDevelop github repos to work with
FreeBSD ports so I gave up after multiple requests for help on both
this mailing list and the FreeBSD forum.

Other .Net things I'd like to see:
- Ivan had some patches for kqueue issues, he passed them on to me but
again, I have moved away from .net on FreeBSD
- I would like to see a port of Pinta on FreeBSD
(https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/) because gimp makes me
want to throw my computer
- I once built and ran .Net Core and would like to see if that has
progressed, perhaps put together a FreeBSD port for it. The ultimate
goal in my mind is to update MonoDevelop to use .net Core
- Porting and testing asp.net  and MVC to FreeBSD
- Testing the latest mono on FreeBSD CURRENT for ARM

I had also at one point seen a possible business model helping clients
get their .net software off of Windows to save $$$ and create
resalable appliances, but that idea died on the vine.

Ultimately, there are so many development options on FreeBSD, I moved
to something that was better supported (lua), but I really really miss
that big beautiful framework. I guess there's always Java, or Python,
or Ruby... :(


There are many points here, from .NET to IDEs and business.

IMHO having .NET framework work is good, APS.NET  too.
Ultimately, having WPF too would be amazing. I'm planing to probe this
with the WPF team.
There is request on UserVoice (Microsoft interface for feedback and
features requests) of opening WPF sources, which is possible.
Microsoft recent policy is to make Windows the #1 platform for software
development, and have GNU tools work natively in Windows.
Their Azure platform now supports FreeBSD 10.3 VM.
Despite everything, they will want probably to make sure Windows still
have competitive advantages, making the WPF and ASP.net not that likely
to be available/ported/opened.

Historically and to my knowledge, GNU/Linux was used for desktop at
Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers. Having FreeBSD a stronger dev
platform is questionable and might require a lot of energy/time/effort
from the community.

Have you tried java/javaFX/openGL ?

M



Hi Mathieu,

IMHO opinion there is no interest to have Mono running properly on 
FreeBSD from either side. Original mono developers are even proud to say 
they don't care about having it run on *BSD, and I guess based on amount 
of feedback you got on this list you can draw your own conclusions about 
enthusiasm coming from this side.


We at company still have some production ASP.Net applications we are 
running using mono/FreeBSD with some patches I wrote both for mono and 
their fastcgi server, but AFAIK those never found their way either to 
FreeBSD port or main mono repository, and I really don't have enough 
time to spend it convincing people to use free source I wrote - what is 
interesting web server patches fix some OS independent bugs with socket 
handling they have, but maybe they thought they were also FreeBSD 
related :-)


I think there is also problem with attitude with mono guys - it seems 
there is perception (as you put it in "GNU/Linux was used for desktop at 
Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers") that there is no need to 
actually have .Net running on FreeBSD, but according to my experience 
serious use of .Net is in web applications, and that is server side usage.


Anyway, in company we are not using C# for any new development (we 
switched back to C++), but we stayed with FreeBSD (I guess for us the 
only way to have stable mono on FreeBSD would be to fork entire project, 
and that would require manpower we don't have at the moment).


Kind regards,
Ivan
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