Re: How to construct this port?
On Thu, Dec 28, 2006 at 02:57:28PM +0200, Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:36:16 +0200 Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: host mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117] said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [82.103.104.21] blocked using bg.countries.nerd.dk; Your IP is in bg, rejected based on geographical location (in reply to RCPT TO command) Do you really block all mails coming from Bulgaria? Romania also. Dec 28 14:48:57 it postfix/smtp[42226]: 05C3A1711B: to=[EMAIL PROTECTED], relay=mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117]:25, delay=14, delays=0.2/0.15/2.6/11, dsn=5.7.1, sta tus=bounced (host mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117] said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [81.196.204.98] blocked using ro.countries.nerd.dk; Your IP is in ro, rejected b ased on geographical location (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Nils, you're a port maintainer, please fix this $^*@ Since I saw others doing this, I'd really like a statement from portmgr (BCC'ed) that commiters and maintainers are not allowed to reject mail like this. I, for one, would commit via instant maintainer timeout to ports belonging this type of maintainers. In this kind of situation I think an instant maintainer timeout is acceptable. You have made a best effort to contact the maintainer and they have disallowed your email by policy, indicating that they are not interested in receiving it. I'd say it's also grounds for replacing the maintainer by someone else more liberal in their mail acceptance policy. Kris pgpDnCWsVcvMP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How to construct this port?
Chuck Swiger wrote on 28-12-2006 20:20: Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:53:34 -0500 Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, sometimes mail systems go down or block traffic for whatever reason: postmaster's job is a thankless task, and this was true even before spam and viral email appeared. Nowadays, it's harder to get things mostly right (nevermind perfect), so postmasters make imperfect decisions because they are faced with undesirable tradeoffs. Indeed :-( However banning a hole country isn't a tradeoff in my book, it's just plain [inset_the_word_here]. And sin[c]e it's giving a 5XX code there's really no way to reach the person in question. I agree that blocking a whole country is a mistake. Short of posting to the mailing list, there's no way to reach whoever it is. Although I've CC:ed him on the thread. The country-blocks have been in my mail config for ages, and I didn't think of them as I decided to become port maintainer. I understand that it is important as a port maintainer to answer user questions on the port, and so I have, at the moment the blocks became apparent and a nuisance, removed them. Looks like im going to turn postgrey after all :-) It has not been my observation that insisting people not make any mistakes commonly results in fewer mistakes being made, or much less, in zero mistakes being made. :-) Rather than try to insist they are not allowed to do something, I'd prefer to let people make their own decisions and learn which ones are mistakes. YMMV The problem is that, IMHO, this kind of rejecting affects us all as I think that being a port maintainer implies receiving and replying to users' email. Certainly true. People doing stuff with FreeBSD ought to whitelist @freebsd.org in particular; that would make committers lives easier. But email and even Internet access are not completely reliable; people go away on vacations sometimes, for a timely example. (Merry Christmas/holidays all. :-) Ha, good idea! Implemented ... :-) (And a Happy Holidays to you too!) For a maintainer timeout to be useful, there needs to be a pending PR and/or someone else willing to be more accessible. Update the current PR with the bounce and set responsible to Nivo, committing the change or not as you feel best; or file a new PR listing another maintainer if one is available and wait for the standard timeout period pending resolution by the hat-wearing demigods known as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apart from me thinking it may be a bit much to go for maintainer switch right away due to a restrictive mail config, what PR are we talking about now, so that I can have a look into it ;) Greetings, Nils ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to construct this port?
Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu wrote on 28-12-2006 13:57: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:36:16 +0200 Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting: Do you really block all mails coming from Bulgaria? Romania also. Nils, you're a port maintainer, please fix this $^*@ Fixed! Those blocks have been in there for ages, so I forgot all about them, oops! Gr, Nils ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to construct this port?
On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 12:02:47PM +0100, Nils Vogels wrote: Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu wrote on 28-12-2006 13:57: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:36:16 +0200 Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting: Do you really block all mails coming from Bulgaria? Romania also. Nils, you're a port maintainer, please fix this $^*@ Fixed! Thanks! -- Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] % A language that doesn't have everything is actually easier to program in than some that do. -- Dennis M. Ritchie pgpQYuFZzXsGz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How to construct this port?
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:20:33 -0500 Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:53:34 -0500 Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, sometimes mail systems go down or block traffic for whatever reason: postmaster's job is a thankless task, and this was true even before spam and viral email appeared. Nowadays, it's harder to get things mostly right (nevermind perfect), so postmasters make imperfect decisions because they are faced with undesirable tradeoffs. Indeed :-( However banning a hole country isn't a tradeoff in my book, it's just plain [inset_the_word_here]. And sin[c]e it's giving a 5XX code there's really no way to reach the person in question. I agree that blocking a whole country is a mistake. Short of posting to the mailing list, there's no way to reach whoever it is. Having your country blocked needn't be more than a minor inconvenience. It's only the last hop IP address that counts, and there are numerous free mail services around the world, including many that give smtp access as well as webmail. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to construct this port?
Interesting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: host mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117] said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [82.103.104.21] blocked using bg.countries.nerd.dk; Your IP is in bg, rejected based on geographical location (in reply to RCPT TO command) Do you really block all mails coming from Bulgaria? -- Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] % If you accidently end up inside vi, you can quit it by pressing Escape, colon (:), q (q), bang (!) and pressing return. pgp45TxtZ9AEg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How to construct this port?
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:36:16 +0200 Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: host mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117] said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [82.103.104.21] blocked using bg.countries.nerd.dk; Your IP is in bg, rejected based on geographical location (in reply to RCPT TO command) Do you really block all mails coming from Bulgaria? Romania also. Dec 28 14:48:57 it postfix/smtp[42226]: 05C3A1711B: to=[EMAIL PROTECTED], relay=mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117]:25, delay=14, delays=0.2/0.15/2.6/11, dsn=5.7.1, sta tus=bounced (host mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117] said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [81.196.204.98] blocked using ro.countries.nerd.dk; Your IP is in ro, rejected b ased on geographical location (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Nils, you're a port maintainer, please fix this $^*@ Since I saw others doing this, I'd really like a statement from portmgr (BCC'ed) that commiters and maintainers are not allowed to reject mail like this. I, for one, would commit via instant maintainer timeout to ports belonging this type of maintainers. -- IOnut - Un^d^dregistered ;) FreeBSD user Intellectual Property is nowhere near as valuable as Intellect BOFH excuse #76: Unoptimized hard drive signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How to construct this port?
On Thu, Dec 28, 2006 at 02:57:28PM +0200, Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:36:16 +0200 Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: host mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117] said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [82.103.104.21] blocked using bg.countries.nerd.dk; Your IP is in bg, rejected based on geographical location (in reply to RCPT TO command) Do you really block all mails coming from Bulgaria? Romania also. Dec 28 14:48:57 it postfix/smtp[42226]: 05C3A1711B: to=[EMAIL PROTECTED], relay=mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117]:25, delay=14, delays=0.2/0.15/2.6/11, dsn=5.7.1, sta tus=bounced (host mail.is-root.com[195.64.89.117] said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [81.196.204.98] blocked using ro.countries.nerd.dk; Your IP is in ro, rejected b ased on geographical location (in reply to RCPT TO command)) [...] Since I saw others doing this, I'd really like a statement from portmgr (BCC'ed) that commiters and maintainers are not allowed to reject mail like this. I, for one, would commit via instant maintainer timeout to ports belonging this type of maintainers. Yeah, you can assume timeout has triggered if you get such a bounce - if you cannot inform a maintainer obviously he will not reply in 14 days... -- Vasil Dimov [EMAIL PROTECTED] % A: Yes. | Q: Are you sure? | | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. | | | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? pgpKC7Sqo7UKn.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How to construct this port?
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:53:34 -0500 Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] However, sometimes mail systems go down or block traffic for whatever reason: postmaster's job is a thankless task, and this was true even before spam and viral email appeared. Nowadays, it's harder to get things mostly right (nevermind perfect), so postmasters make imperfect decisions because they are faced with undesirable tradeoffs. Indeed :-( However banning a hole country isn't a tradeoff in my book, it's just plain [inset_the_word_here]. And sine it's giving a 5XX code there's really no way to reach the person in question. It has not been my observation that insisting people not make any mistakes commonly results in fewer mistakes being made, or much less, in zero mistakes being made. :-) Rather than try to insist they are not allowed to do something, I'd prefer to let people make their own decisions and learn which ones are mistakes. YMMV The problem is that, IMHO, this kind of rejecting affects us all as I think that being a port maintainer implies receiving and replying to users' email. I don't use any of the ports maintainer by Nils so I could not care, but I think it's my responsibility as commiter to point out that this is a mistake. -- IOnut - Un^d^dregistered ;) FreeBSD user Intellectual Property is nowhere near as valuable as Intellect Fascinating, a totally parochial attitude. -- Spock, Metamorphosis, stardate 3219.8 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How to construct this port?
In response to Ion-Mihai \IOnut\ Tetcu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:53:34 -0500 Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] However, sometimes mail systems go down or block traffic for whatever reason: postmaster's job is a thankless task, and this was true even before spam and viral email appeared. Nowadays, it's harder to get things mostly right (nevermind perfect), so postmasters make imperfect decisions because they are faced with undesirable tradeoffs. Indeed :-( However banning a hole country isn't a tradeoff in my book, it's just plain [inset_the_word_here]. And sine it's giving a 5XX code there's really no way to reach the person in question. I disagree. There are certain countries where the people in charge simply don't seem to care whether or not they're spamming or not. It takes a while for me to get ticked off enough to block an entire country, but there are three or four on my list right now. Besides, it's _his_ mailserver. He has the right to accept to deny mail as he sees fit. Trying to tell him otherwise is like trying to tell me that I have to eat a certain type of food. On the flip side, if you're unable to get in contact with him, why not just file a PR? At that rate, the standard timeouts go into effect. It has not been my observation that insisting people not make any mistakes commonly results in fewer mistakes being made, or much less, in zero mistakes being made. :-) Rather than try to insist they are not allowed to do something, I'd prefer to let people make their own decisions and learn which ones are mistakes. YMMV The problem is that, IMHO, this kind of rejecting affects us all as I think that being a port maintainer implies receiving and replying to users' email. No, it doesn't. Port maintainer is a volunteer position. If you start dictating too many things about what they must and must not do, you're going to run short of willing volunteers. I only maintain a few ports, but I'd quit maintaining those if someone were to tell I had to reconfigure my mailserver. -- Bill Moran Collaborative Fusion Inc. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to construct this port?
Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:53:34 -0500 Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, sometimes mail systems go down or block traffic for whatever reason: postmaster's job is a thankless task, and this was true even before spam and viral email appeared. Nowadays, it's harder to get things mostly right (nevermind perfect), so postmasters make imperfect decisions because they are faced with undesirable tradeoffs. Indeed :-( However banning a hole country isn't a tradeoff in my book, it's just plain [inset_the_word_here]. And sin[c]e it's giving a 5XX code there's really no way to reach the person in question. I agree that blocking a whole country is a mistake. Short of posting to the mailing list, there's no way to reach whoever it is. Although I've CC:ed him on the thread. It has not been my observation that insisting people not make any mistakes commonly results in fewer mistakes being made, or much less, in zero mistakes being made. :-) Rather than try to insist they are not allowed to do something, I'd prefer to let people make their own decisions and learn which ones are mistakes. YMMV The problem is that, IMHO, this kind of rejecting affects us all as I think that being a port maintainer implies receiving and replying to users' email. Certainly true. People doing stuff with FreeBSD ought to whitelist @freebsd.org in particular; that would make committers lives easier. But email and even Internet access are not completely reliable; people go away on vacations sometimes, for a timely example. (Merry Christmas/holidays all. :-) For a maintainer timeout to be useful, there needs to be a pending PR and/or someone else willing to be more accessible. Update the current PR with the bounce and set responsible to Nivo, committing the change or not as you feel best; or file a new PR listing another maintainer if one is available and wait for the standard timeout period pending resolution by the hat-wearing demigods known as [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to construct this port?
Bill Moran píše v čt 28. 12. 2006 v 14:02 -0500: In response to Ion-Mihai \IOnut\ Tetcu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: However banning a hole country isn't a tradeoff in my book, it's just plain [inset_the_word_here]. And sine it's giving a 5XX code there's really no way to reach the person in question. Besides, it's _his_ mailserver. He has the right to accept to deny mail as he sees fit. Trying to tell him otherwise is like trying to tell me that I have to eat a certain type of food. The problem is that, IMHO, this kind of rejecting affects us all as I think that being a port maintainer implies receiving and replying to users' email. No, it doesn't. Port maintainer is a volunteer position. If you start dictating too many things about what they must and must not do, you're going to run short of willing volunteers. Ugh, actually, http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing-ports/maintain-port.html reads in a section Maintainer _responsibilities_, quote: 5.2.4 Providing support Part of being a maintainer is providing support -- not for the software in general -- but for the port and any FreeBSD-specific quirks and problems. Users may contact you with questions, suggestions, problems and patches. Most of the time their correspondence will be specific to FreeBSD. So that reads as exact opposite of what you wrote. You may want to adjust your attitude here :) -- Pav Lucistnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alignment: Neutral Greedy signature.asc Description: Toto je digitálně podepsaná část zprávy
Re: How to construct this port?
I'll echo pav here. For people that don't want to answer questions or deal with reminder-email from portmgr, the best thing to do is turn the port over to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and just submit PRs for updates. That's the difference, in my view, between being a 'submitter' and being a 'maintainer'. We need both, of course. mcl ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
