Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Carsten Larsen]

Hi,

On 09-07-2016 kl. 13:10 Romain Tartière wrote:

Dear all,

I finally could manage to sync my local mess into some "shipable form"
and updated the bsd-sharp github repository with current WIP:

https://github.com/smortex/bsd-sharp

My main issue is devel/newtonsoft-json which fails to build.  I could
not manage to get more time to search for the root cause of the build
failure during the last couple of weeks :-(  If someone has insights or
a workaround, thank you for sharing !


I dont know know if any others are looking at his issue ? fyi. I could 
build lang/mono from the repository without any changes. I will take a 
look devel/newtonsoft-json and see if I can fix it.




Regards,
Romain




Carsten
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Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Russell Haley]

Hey everyone,

Thanks so much for your input. I'm really glad to have these
discussions. Romain, your "2 cents" are very insiteful and already
within days the repositories I cloned were outdated. I can see the
limits of the tools much as you have described them.

So, I have gone back and asked myself, "what the hell is it you are
trying to do?" The answer is not "maintain repositories". The answer
is "bring together a community that cares about FreeBSD where people
with mono/.net skills to contribute". The mono stack was outdated
until a few hours ago, (awesome job Romain, can't wait to test your
patches) and there was no clear documentation on what needs to happen
and who is participating.

These discussions seem to have pushed things in the right direction
regardless of the FreeBSD-DotNet github project. Romain has already
patched fsharp (I just did that last night), mono and some others.
FreeBSD doesn't accept Github Pull Requests so the ports patches need
to be pushed through Bugzilla and/or Phabricator in the end anyway.

We can do all of this in svn, bugzilla and phabricator (and thanks for
the offer koobs!). I hope that all our patches wind up upstream. In
fact, I would prefer all of that.  However, GitHub is the
tool-of-the-day and there are some primitive tools to manage these
things. Moreover, I don't have to ask anyones permission.

SO, the FreeBSD-DotNet project is about community. I have created a
developers wiki here:
https://github.com/FreeBSD-DotNet/Developer-Wiki

There is not much in it yet, but by the end of the week I will have
some process around issues and whatnot as these are the tools
available.

If you want to show your support for Mono and Dot-Net on FreeBSD via
GitHub, feel free to send me a request and become a member. I hope
that members will help keep the issues updated so there is a place we
can see what is happening. As members we can push patches to a
community location, or not as the individual so chooses. BUT if we can
track issues, put together better documentation, share patches, and
improve the quality of DotNet through community, then I think that's a
good thing.

Ivan has some patches as well and I'll get those up there asap. Ivan,
if you have some ideas for GH process you want to see, then now is the
time to voice that.

In the end, if the site is not helpful, then so be it. But lets give
it a shot, shall we?

Russ

On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Kubilay Kocak  wrote:
> On 28/06/2016 4:06 AM, Russell Haley wrote:
>> Hello Ports Team,
>>
>> A couple of us on the freebsd-mono@ mailing list are having a
>> discussion on how best to maintain the mono ports/.net ports. One of
>> the things that has come up is maintaining the patches for "all this
>> stuff". The current paradigm in FreeBSD as I understand it is to use
>> the files directory and apply the patches to the port via svn/ports
>> tree. However, with the ubiquity of GitHub in opensource, it now seems
>> to be feesable to simply create a Github accound to maintain a bunch
>> of forked repositories (which is essentially a patched git
>> repository!). This makes it easier to create and apply patches and
>> gives us the natural path to push things back upstream. In the end, we
>> would just pull from the FreeBSD specific repository, which is no
>> different than, say, pulling from the mono project directly.
>>
>> This email is a request for response from anyone on the ports team (or
>> FreeBSD general) to give some input as to the acceptability of this
>> solution, as well as any "gotchas" we haven't thought of yet. Thanks
>> in advance!
>>
>>
>> Russ
>
> Hi Russ,
>
> If all the things can't eventually end up upstream, and even if they
> ultimately could, there's no issues with your own github repository to
> maintain a 'freebsd branch'.
>
> We have other teams/projects doing just that, such as
> freebsd-ports-gnome, freebsd-ports-graphics among others.
>
> I'll go one beyond that and say I'd (as a part of Git Admin) be happy to
> create a repository under the official freebsd organisation for you,
> perhaps named "freebsd-ports-mon"o or similar, with the members of 'team
> mono' added as writers.
>
> Hit me up off-list (cc git-admin@) to discuss further
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kubilay
> Git Admin
>
>
>
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Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Kubilay Kocak]

On 28/06/2016 4:06 AM, Russell Haley wrote:
> Hello Ports Team,
> 
> A couple of us on the freebsd-mono@ mailing list are having a
> discussion on how best to maintain the mono ports/.net ports. One of
> the things that has come up is maintaining the patches for "all this
> stuff". The current paradigm in FreeBSD as I understand it is to use
> the files directory and apply the patches to the port via svn/ports
> tree. However, with the ubiquity of GitHub in opensource, it now seems
> to be feesable to simply create a Github accound to maintain a bunch
> of forked repositories (which is essentially a patched git
> repository!). This makes it easier to create and apply patches and
> gives us the natural path to push things back upstream. In the end, we
> would just pull from the FreeBSD specific repository, which is no
> different than, say, pulling from the mono project directly.
> 
> This email is a request for response from anyone on the ports team (or
> FreeBSD general) to give some input as to the acceptability of this
> solution, as well as any "gotchas" we haven't thought of yet. Thanks
> in advance!
> 
> 
> Russ

Hi Russ,

If all the things can't eventually end up upstream, and even if they
ultimately could, there's no issues with your own github repository to
maintain a 'freebsd branch'.

We have other teams/projects doing just that, such as
freebsd-ports-gnome, freebsd-ports-graphics among others.

I'll go one beyond that and say I'd (as a part of Git Admin) be happy to
create a repository under the official freebsd organisation for you,
perhaps named "freebsd-ports-mon"o or similar, with the members of 'team
mono' added as writers.

Hit me up off-list (cc git-admin@) to discuss further

--
Regards,

Kubilay
Git Admin



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Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Romain Tartière]

Dear all,

I finally could manage to sync my local mess into some "shipable form"
and updated the bsd-sharp github repository with current WIP:

https://github.com/smortex/bsd-sharp

My main issue is devel/newtonsoft-json which fails to build.  I could
not manage to get more time to search for the root cause of the build
failure during the last couple of weeks :-(  If someone has insights or
a workaround, thank you for sharing !

Regards,
Romain

-- 
Romain Tartière   http://people.FreeBSD.org/~romain/
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(plain text =non-HTML= PGP/GPG encrypted/signed e-mail much appreciated)


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Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Russell Haley]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Baptiste Daroussin  wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 11:06:02AM -0700, Russell Haley wrote:
>> Hello Ports Team,
>>
>> A couple of us on the freebsd-mono@ mailing list are having a
>> discussion on how best to maintain the mono ports/.net ports. One of
>> the things that has come up is maintaining the patches for "all this
>> stuff". The current paradigm in FreeBSD as I understand it is to use
>> the files directory and apply the patches to the port via svn/ports
>> tree. However, with the ubiquity of GitHub in opensource, it now seems
>> to be feesable to simply create a Github accound to maintain a bunch
>> of forked repositories (which is essentially a patched git
>> repository!). This makes it easier to create and apply patches and
>> gives us the natural path to push things back upstream. In the end, we
>> would just pull from the FreeBSD specific repository, which is no
>> different than, say, pulling from the mono project directly.
>>
>> This email is a request for response from anyone on the ports team (or
>> FreeBSD general) to give some input as to the acceptability of this
>> solution, as well as any "gotchas" we haven't thought of yet. Thanks
>> in advance!
>>
> There are absolutely nothing against this. Actually some ports were already
> doing that before the github era :D
>
> The only difficulty the history told us is : when active people get less 
> active
> for various reasons you need to make sure enough people continues to get 
> access
> to the said repo.
>
> Tracking upstream updates because more complicated for people not in the team
> (we already saw in the past ports stucked for more than 5/6 years actions 
> being
> taken (maintainer of the forked becoming mostly MIA)
>
> It also depends how many patches you end up with, I haven't checked the
> mono/.net ports but if that is just a bunch of small patches then the overhead
> is not worth the pain, if there are lots of patches then sure maintaining your
> repo is simpler.
>
> Depending on how active you (the team) are and how close to the upstream you 
> are
> one can also see those repositories as "temporary" until all the amount of
> patches are upstreamed and when done the ports can switch back to the official
> distfiles (this is always a goal for ports upstreaming all our patches so we 
> can
> remain as close as possible from the vanilla sources)
>
> That said I do applause the effort. As a conclusion do what ever you think is
> the easiest mechanism for you as long as things like monodevelop and friends 
> can
> be pushed in a working state again.
>
> Best regards,
> Bapt

Thanks for the input everyone. I think the overhead of keeping
volatile patches in a globally accessible area is worth while. One of
the things I struggled with historically is how to share my local
changes that I couldn't commit to the svn tree.

I have created an open source organization called FreeBSD-DotNet in
Github. I have differentiated from the Mono moniker because the
merging of the frameworks is inevitable with the purchase of Xamarian.

I went a little crazy and forked a whole bunch of stuff, which I now
think is a bad idea. The only thing that currently requires
customization would be the ports tree itself (MonoDevelop doesn't
build yet, but I haven't needed to change any code). However, I think
we can put a bunch of how-to and wiki stuff in there for the
development efforts.

SO, with that: Anyone wishing to join the FreeBSD-DotNet organization
can go to https://github.com/FreeBSD-DotNet and send a request. I'll
try to flesh out an outstanding items list that can be ratified
sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks,

Russ
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Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Baptiste Daroussin]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 11:06:02AM -0700, Russell Haley wrote:
> Hello Ports Team,
> 
> A couple of us on the freebsd-mono@ mailing list are having a
> discussion on how best to maintain the mono ports/.net ports. One of
> the things that has come up is maintaining the patches for "all this
> stuff". The current paradigm in FreeBSD as I understand it is to use
> the files directory and apply the patches to the port via svn/ports
> tree. However, with the ubiquity of GitHub in opensource, it now seems
> to be feesable to simply create a Github accound to maintain a bunch
> of forked repositories (which is essentially a patched git
> repository!). This makes it easier to create and apply patches and
> gives us the natural path to push things back upstream. In the end, we
> would just pull from the FreeBSD specific repository, which is no
> different than, say, pulling from the mono project directly.
> 
> This email is a request for response from anyone on the ports team (or
> FreeBSD general) to give some input as to the acceptability of this
> solution, as well as any "gotchas" we haven't thought of yet. Thanks
> in advance!
> 
There are absolutely nothing against this. Actually some ports were already
doing that before the github era :D

The only difficulty the history told us is : when active people get less active
for various reasons you need to make sure enough people continues to get access
to the said repo.

Tracking upstream updates because more complicated for people not in the team
(we already saw in the past ports stucked for more than 5/6 years actions being
taken (maintainer of the forked becoming mostly MIA)

It also depends how many patches you end up with, I haven't checked the
mono/.net ports but if that is just a bunch of small patches then the overhead
is not worth the pain, if there are lots of patches then sure maintaining your
repo is simpler.

Depending on how active you (the team) are and how close to the upstream you are
one can also see those repositories as "temporary" until all the amount of
patches are upstreamed and when done the ports can switch back to the official
distfiles (this is always a goal for ports upstreaming all our patches so we can
remain as close as possible from the vanilla sources)

That said I do applause the effort. As a conclusion do what ever you think is
the easiest mechanism for you as long as things like monodevelop and friends can
be pushed in a working state again.

Best regards,
Bapt


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Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Ivan Radovanovic]

On 06/27/2016 20:21, Kurt Jaeger napisa:

Hi!


A couple of us on the freebsd-mono@ mailing list are having a
discussion on how best to maintain the mono ports/.net ports. One of
the things that has come up is maintaining the patches for "all this
stuff". The current paradigm in FreeBSD as I understand it is to use
the files directory and apply the patches to the port via svn/ports
tree. However, with the ubiquity of GitHub in opensource, it now seems
to be feesable to simply create a Github accound to maintain a bunch
of forked repositories (which is essentially a patched git
repository!).


 From my point of view, while not perfect, it sounds reasonable.



We are open for all (good) ideas (good in sense: easier to use, 
requiring less effort to maintain patches) :-)

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Re: Maintaining mono/.net

[Kurt Jaeger]

Hi!

> A couple of us on the freebsd-mono@ mailing list are having a
> discussion on how best to maintain the mono ports/.net ports. One of
> the things that has come up is maintaining the patches for "all this
> stuff". The current paradigm in FreeBSD as I understand it is to use
> the files directory and apply the patches to the port via svn/ports
> tree. However, with the ubiquity of GitHub in opensource, it now seems
> to be feesable to simply create a Github accound to maintain a bunch
> of forked repositories (which is essentially a patched git
> repository!).

>From my point of view, while not perfect, it sounds reasonable.

-- 
p...@opsec.eu+49 171 3101372 4 years to go !
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Maintaining mono/.net

[Russell Haley]

Hello Ports Team,

A couple of us on the freebsd-mono@ mailing list are having a
discussion on how best to maintain the mono ports/.net ports. One of
the things that has come up is maintaining the patches for "all this
stuff". The current paradigm in FreeBSD as I understand it is to use
the files directory and apply the patches to the port via svn/ports
tree. However, with the ubiquity of GitHub in opensource, it now seems
to be feesable to simply create a Github accound to maintain a bunch
of forked repositories (which is essentially a patched git
repository!). This makes it easier to create and apply patches and
gives us the natural path to push things back upstream. In the end, we
would just pull from the FreeBSD specific repository, which is no
different than, say, pulling from the mono project directly.

This email is a request for response from anyone on the ports team (or
FreeBSD general) to give some input as to the acceptability of this
solution, as well as any "gotchas" we haven't thought of yet. Thanks
in advance!


Russ
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