Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On 2013-11-25 08:04, Matthias Andree wrote:
Am 25.11.2013 07:53, schrieb olli hauer:
On 2013-11-25 07:40, Matthias Andree wrote:
Am 23.11.2013 12:20, schrieb Mark Martinec:
On Friday 22 November 2013 21:40:07 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Now, one last little thing...
The note in the UPDATING file dated 20131120 gives essentially the same
instructions as the one dated 20131023, *however* it also contains this:
1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16:
make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config
HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that
we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything?
It would be Nice if this were entierly less opaque.
$ man ports
[...]
config Configure OPTIONS for this port using dialog4ports(1).
And what does it matter to anything?
Gives you a choice to re-think your existing/chosen port options.
For example, a new default is now THREADS, but you may not like
it, as it somewhat increases the memory usage and requires
to rebuild all perl modules.
Which shows an interesting facet of this whole tedious process:
We're doing a lousy job of explaining the options to unsavvy users, and
we're also doing a lousy job of tracking options. Perhaps we should
just slash down the options and go more for build the default - it
also reduces testing complexity and would give for a more uniform ports
experience for everyone (packages use default options anyways).
${opt}_DESC is limited, but help/explanation can be given in pkg-help.
Granted, but last time I checked I did not have a Help button on
dialog4ports. Either none of the ports I've seen offering options offer
pkg-help, or dialog4ports needs to be told to feed pkg-help through $PAGER.
Only if the file pkg-help exists a hint will be displayed on the bottom if
you call `make config'.
make config -C www/apache24
Detailed help is available hit F1 or ^E to view it
F1 will terminate the config dialog if called by a putty ssh session but ^E
has always worked for me.
--
olli
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Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 00:25:26 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: Anyway, the specific broken port I'm trying to fix at the moment is net/p5-Socket, which is failing thusly: I had to revert the switch to threaded perl because of this, dns/p5-Net-DNS, net/p5-IP-Country and converters/p5-Encode-Detect. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013, Matthias Andree wrote: Am 23.11.2013 12:20, schrieb Mark Martinec: On Friday 22 November 2013 21:40:07 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: Now, one last little thing... The note in the UPDATING file dated 20131120 gives essentially the same instructions as the one dated 20131023, *however* it also contains this: 1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? It would be Nice if this were entierly less opaque. $ man ports [...] config Configure OPTIONS for this port using dialog4ports(1). And what does it matter to anything? Gives you a choice to re-think your existing/chosen port options. For example, a new default is now THREADS, but you may not like it, as it somewhat increases the memory usage and requires to rebuild all perl modules. Which shows an interesting facet of this whole tedious process: We're doing a lousy job of explaining the options to unsavvy users, and we're also doing a lousy job of tracking options. I don't know if I'd say it that way, but many users really have a hard time interpreting UPDATING. Perhaps we should just slash down the options and go more for build the default - it also reduces testing complexity and would give for a more uniform ports experience for everyone (packages use default options anyways). That's supposed to be changing. I would even go that far to propose killing some common options such as NLS DOCS EXAMPLES and replace them by a make globcalconfig that sets them system-wide through make.conf, so that we don't need to set/reset them each and every time a port changes options, nor even offer them. That is an excellent idea! This would also act as documentation of what global options are available. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:10:20PM +, RW wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 00:25:26 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: Anyway, the specific broken port I'm trying to fix at the moment is net/p5-Socket, which is failing thusly: I had to revert the switch to threaded perl because of this, dns/p5-Net-DNS, net/p5-IP-Country and converters/p5-Encode-Detect. For those, I ended up forcibly de-installing them, then building them. Seemed to go OK (after I applied that hammer). Peace, david -- David H. Wolfskill da...@catwhisker.org Taliban: Evil cowards with guns afraid of truth from a 14-year old girl. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. pgp4QIDDZUCjS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
In message 845a2e7e540e58efd7f05...@atuin.in.mat.cc, Mathieu Arnold m...@freebsd.org wrote: rfg wrote: | Why would _anything_ that is in any way dependent upon the Perl | interpreter need to be rebuilt? In this switch to threads=on, has the | language itself changed? And if not, shouldn't the change to | multi-threading capability within the interpreter be utterly transparent | to (and a non-event for) any and all pre-existing Perl code? | | Obviously, there's something that I'm missing, but I have no idea what it | might be. Because, hum, quite a few things change when you enable threads, some headers bits change, some calls that are noop without become real call with, things like that. Now, it obviously is a non issue with ports that only use perl to run scripts, or p5- ports that are only scripts, but for ports that have XS files that get compiled into .so, they need to get recompiled, and the same goes for every bit of software that includes the interpreter. As there is no simple way to differentiate between those two categories of dependencies, I ask people to rebuild (or reinstall, if you're using binary packages) everything. OK. It is all clear now. Thank you for taking the time to explain. It _does_ all make sense now. I assure you, it does not make me happy at all to have people rebuild everything depending on Perl every two weeks (like it feels I've been doing that for a few months...) Well, I apologize if I cam off as being a bit... um... testy. I'm actually one of the lucky people, I guess, since I only update my ports very infrequently... only once in every several months... so I've managed to miss most of the excitement. :-) (As I mentioned in my original post in this thread, it was late and I was tired when I first posted about all this. Please do forgive me if I seemed at all unappreciative of your hard work, which is clearly of great value, both to me personally and also to countless others.) | I'm *not* claiming that the maintainer didn't have a good reason for | suggesting these rebuilds. I'm only saying that *I* personally still | don't have a good understanding of what the need for this is/was. As the maintainer, I hope my previous bit did explain that a bit better, if things are not that clear, do feel free to point them out and I'll try better. No no. You have now explained the resons for the rebuilds clearly and admirably. It all makes sense. The thing is that all those explanations can't go into UPDATING, we try to keep it short not to confuse people. Yes. I'm glad that we have these mailing lists, and their associated archives, so that people like me with an interest in such arcana can ask and get answers... at least from the subset of port maintainers who, like you, are nicely responsive. Keep up the good work! And thanks again, for everthing. Regards, rfg ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
Am 22.11.2013 12:52, schrieb Mathieu Arnold: +--On 22 novembre 2013 00:25:26 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: | AUTHOR: m...@freebsd.org Cough, cough, yeah, I mostly wrote that. | portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* At that time, that line was right. Now, after that, the perl packages name which had the same name (all named perl) and were conflicting and were renamed to perl5 for the default perl, that is, 5.16, and perl5.xx for the non default ones, that are 5.12, 5.14 and 5.18. | pkg_info says that at present I have perl5.14-5.14.4_3 installed. So | excuse my french, but why the fuck didn't the command: | |portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* Now, as you can see, your perl is not named perl-5.14 but perl5.14-5.14.4_3, so, you should change that line to : portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl5.14-5.14.4_3 I'll commit an update to that right now. Please use ... -f perl*5.14* - that should settle old and new installations. And perhaps while at it, we need to tell users to _enable_ the THREADED option in the younger UPDATING entry when make ... config is run. And we should consider reintroducting scripts to help with the updates that avoid reinstalling indirect dependencies. Those we know need to be rebuilt should just get version bumped and that should be it. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 23.11.2013 23:25, schrieb Matthew Seaman: On 23/11/2013 22:12, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: and you will thus need to recompile all ports that depend on Perl. This is the part that is still utterly baffling. Why would _anything_ that is in any way dependent upon the Perl interpreter need to be rebuilt? In this switch to threads=on, has the language itself changed? And if not, shouldn't the change to multi-threading capability within the interpreter be utterly transparent to (and a non-event for) any and all pre-existing Perl code? Obviously, there's something that I'm missing, but I have no idea what it might be. Technically, you don't actually need to recompile something that's pure perl, or that only requires perl to run some scripts. However everything that has a binary interface with perl -- XS modules, software with embedded perl interpreters -- certainly will need recompiling to match the new threaded ABI that has now become the default. The advice to 'recompile everything that depends on perl' is overkill, but it's a simple way to be sure that you have in fact recompiled everything necessary. Picking out only those ports that really needed to be recompiled would require a procedure too unweildy to be usefully described in UPDATING. Well, we might want to revive a Makefile target or script that helped with that. If we have that in place, perhaps as separate perl-upgrade-helper port, we don't need lengthy fragile explanations... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlKS7/EACgkQvmGDOQUufZXlgwCeK/ddZ9nWPVTzZltLqutKYPVH Io8AnjuXprpF3hL36Wknpi5PrKrj0a5h =du2J -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
Am 23.11.2013 12:20, schrieb Mark Martinec: On Friday 22 November 2013 21:40:07 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: Now, one last little thing... The note in the UPDATING file dated 20131120 gives essentially the same instructions as the one dated 20131023, *however* it also contains this: 1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? It would be Nice if this were entierly less opaque. $ man ports [...] config Configure OPTIONS for this port using dialog4ports(1). And what does it matter to anything? Gives you a choice to re-think your existing/chosen port options. For example, a new default is now THREADS, but you may not like it, as it somewhat increases the memory usage and requires to rebuild all perl modules. Which shows an interesting facet of this whole tedious process: We're doing a lousy job of explaining the options to unsavvy users, and we're also doing a lousy job of tracking options. Perhaps we should just slash down the options and go more for build the default - it also reduces testing complexity and would give for a more uniform ports experience for everyone (packages use default options anyways). I would even go that far to propose killing some common options such as NLS DOCS EXAMPLES and replace them by a make globcalconfig that sets them system-wide through make.conf, so that we don't need to set/reset them each and every time a port changes options, nor even offer them. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On 2013-11-25 07:40, Matthias Andree wrote:
Am 23.11.2013 12:20, schrieb Mark Martinec:
On Friday 22 November 2013 21:40:07 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Now, one last little thing...
The note in the UPDATING file dated 20131120 gives essentially the same
instructions as the one dated 20131023, *however* it also contains this:
1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16:
make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config
HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that
we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything?
It would be Nice if this were entierly less opaque.
$ man ports
[...]
config Configure OPTIONS for this port using dialog4ports(1).
And what does it matter to anything?
Gives you a choice to re-think your existing/chosen port options.
For example, a new default is now THREADS, but you may not like
it, as it somewhat increases the memory usage and requires
to rebuild all perl modules.
Which shows an interesting facet of this whole tedious process:
We're doing a lousy job of explaining the options to unsavvy users, and
we're also doing a lousy job of tracking options. Perhaps we should
just slash down the options and go more for build the default - it
also reduces testing complexity and would give for a more uniform ports
experience for everyone (packages use default options anyways).
I would even go that far to propose killing some common options such as
NLS DOCS EXAMPLES and replace them by a make globcalconfig that sets
them system-wide through make.conf, so that we don't need to set/reset
them each and every time a port changes options, nor even offer them.
${opt}_DESC is limited, but help/explanation can be given in pkg-help.
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Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
Am 25.11.2013 07:53, schrieb olli hauer:
On 2013-11-25 07:40, Matthias Andree wrote:
Am 23.11.2013 12:20, schrieb Mark Martinec:
On Friday 22 November 2013 21:40:07 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Now, one last little thing...
The note in the UPDATING file dated 20131120 gives essentially the same
instructions as the one dated 20131023, *however* it also contains this:
1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16:
make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config
HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that
we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything?
It would be Nice if this were entierly less opaque.
$ man ports
[...]
config Configure OPTIONS for this port using dialog4ports(1).
And what does it matter to anything?
Gives you a choice to re-think your existing/chosen port options.
For example, a new default is now THREADS, but you may not like
it, as it somewhat increases the memory usage and requires
to rebuild all perl modules.
Which shows an interesting facet of this whole tedious process:
We're doing a lousy job of explaining the options to unsavvy users, and
we're also doing a lousy job of tracking options. Perhaps we should
just slash down the options and go more for build the default - it
also reduces testing complexity and would give for a more uniform ports
experience for everyone (packages use default options anyways).
${opt}_DESC is limited, but help/explanation can be given in pkg-help.
Granted, but last time I checked I did not have a Help button on
dialog4ports. Either none of the ports I've seen offering options offer
pkg-help, or dialog4ports needs to be told to feed pkg-help through $PAGER.
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Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
+--On 22 novembre 2013 12:40:07 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: |1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: | make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config | | HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that | we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? Like it is written in the paragraph before, the default option for perl has changed, *if* you want to switch from non threaded to threaded, you also need to change your perl configuration. -- Mathieu Arnold ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On Saturday 23 November 2013 11:54:27 Mathieu Arnold wrote: +--On 22 novembre 2013 12:40:07 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: |1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: | make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config | | HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that | we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? Like it is written in the paragraph before, the default option for perl has changed, *if* you want to switch from non threaded to threaded, you also need to change your perl configuration. I have threaded option on all the time. Do I need to rebuild than? It is confused for me. -- Mitja --- http://www.redbubble.com/people.lumiwa ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On Friday 22 November 2013 21:40:07 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: Now, one last little thing... The note in the UPDATING file dated 20131120 gives essentially the same instructions as the one dated 20131023, *however* it also contains this: 1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? It would be Nice if this were entierly less opaque. $ man ports [...] config Configure OPTIONS for this port using dialog4ports(1). And what does it matter to anything? Gives you a choice to re-think your existing/chosen port options. For example, a new default is now THREADS, but you may not like it, as it somewhat increases the memory usage and requires to rebuild all perl modules. Mark ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
+--On 23 novembre 2013 06:13:33 -0500 Ajtim lum...@gmail.com wrote: | On Saturday 23 November 2013 11:54:27 Mathieu Arnold wrote: | +--On 22 novembre 2013 12:40:07 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette | r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: | |1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: | | make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config | | | | HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option | | that we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? | | Like it is written in the paragraph before, the default option for perl | has changed, *if* you want to switch from non threaded to threaded, you | also need to change your perl configuration. | | I have threaded option on all the time. Do I need to rebuild than? It | is confused for me. Then, you're not changing anything, you don't need to rebuild anything. You only need to rebuild everything if you're changing that. -- Mathieu Arnold ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
In message 17d096510a47c61858d55...@atuin.in.mat.cc, Mathieu Arnold m...@freebsd.org wrote: +--On 22 novembre 2013 12:40:07 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: |1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: | make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config | | HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that | we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? Like it is written in the paragraph before, the default option for perl has changed, *if* you want to switch from non threaded to threaded, you also need to change your perl configuration. OK, but please help me understand here. What is it, exactly, that is _now_ being threaded, that wasn't threaded before? Is it the guts of the Perl interpreter itself? Is it the Perl programs that get interpreted by the interpreter? (Part of what is confusing about this is that I was under the impression... perhaps naive... that Perl was already set up for threads support quite some long time ago.) ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: OK, but please help me understand here. What is it, exactly, that is _now_ being threaded, that wasn't threaded before? ... (Part of what is confusing about this is that I was under the impression... perhaps naive... that Perl was already set up for threads support quite some long time ago.) Perl _was_ set up to be threaded (although I have no idea what is actually threaded there), but the port option to enable it being threaded was not enabled by default. The implication is that if you compiled it with default options, it wasn't threaded. But now it (the option) has been changed to be enabled by default, and so the point of that UPDATING entry was that if you are running with default options, then your Perl will switch from non-threaded to threaded when you recompile it, and you will thus need to recompile all ports that depend on Perl. IF you already had this option enabled to begin with, I believe you don't need to recompile and reinstall anything (including Perl itself, but do note that the ports system will then keep thinking that Perl hasn't been upgraded - which isn't an issue, since the only thing changed here is the defaults and not any functionality, and so you can just wait to recompile it when something more serious changes; this is up to you though). Hope this clears it up a bit. Anton ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
In message caeahp2iw+hd4rnnzk0rvd6imnr+badevatgf0fqwblpikmp...@mail.gmail.com Anton Afanasyev aas...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: OK, but please help me understand here. What is it, exactly, that is _now_ being threaded, that wasn't threaded before? ... (Part of what is confusing about this is that I was under the impression... perhaps naive... that Perl was already set up for threads support quite some long time ago.) Perl _was_ set up to be threaded (although I have no idea what is actually threaded there), but the port option to enable it being threaded was not enabled by default. (One might well ask why not? but we will leave that question aside for the moment.) The implication is that if you compiled it with default options, it wasn't threaded. But now it (the option) has been changed to be enabled by default, and so the point of that UPDATING entry was that if you are running with default options, then your Perl will switch from non-threaded to threaded when you recompile it, OK, that part, at least is clear. and you will thus need to recompile all ports that depend on Perl. This is the part that is still utterly baffling. Why would _anything_ that is in any way dependent upon the Perl interpreter need to be rebuilt? In this switch to threads=on, has the language itself changed? And if not, shouldn't the change to multi-threading capability within the interpreter be utterly transparent to (and a non-event for) any and all pre-existing Perl code? Obviously, there's something that I'm missing, but I have no idea what it might be. IF you already had this option enabled to begin with, I believe you don't need to recompile and reinstall anything (including Perl itself, but do note that the ports system will then keep thinking that Perl hasn't been upgraded - which isn't an issue, since the only thing changed here is the defaults and not any functionality, and so you can just wait to recompile it when something more serious changes; this is up to you though). Hope this clears it up a bit. Well, I thank you for your attempt to help clear up the confusion, but I do confess that the need to rebuild... or the value of rebuilding... all of the stuff that _depends_ on Perl is still rather entirely mystifying. I'm *not* claiming that the maintainer didn't have a good reason for suggesting these rebuilds. I'm only saying that *I* personally still don't have a good understanding of what the need for this is/was. Regards, rfg ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On 23/11/2013 22:12, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: and you will thus need to recompile all ports that depend on Perl. This is the part that is still utterly baffling. Why would _anything_ that is in any way dependent upon the Perl interpreter need to be rebuilt? In this switch to threads=on, has the language itself changed? And if not, shouldn't the change to multi-threading capability within the interpreter be utterly transparent to (and a non-event for) any and all pre-existing Perl code? Obviously, there's something that I'm missing, but I have no idea what it might be. Technically, you don't actually need to recompile something that's pure perl, or that only requires perl to run some scripts. However everything that has a binary interface with perl -- XS modules, software with embedded perl interpreters -- certainly will need recompiling to match the new threaded ABI that has now become the default. The advice to 'recompile everything that depends on perl' is overkill, but it's a simple way to be sure that you have in fact recompiled everything necessary. Picking out only those ports that really needed to be recompiled would require a procedure too unweildy to be usefully described in UPDATING. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
+--On 23 novembre 2013 14:12:12 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: | Perl _was_ set up to be threaded (although I have no idea what is | actually threaded there), but the port option to enable it being | threaded was not enabled by default. | | (One might well ask why not? but we will leave that question aside for | the moment.) Mainly because in early days, many software had problems with the changes that went into the interpreter when it had threads, like a smaller stack, which made amavis pretty unhappy, for instance. And from then, it stay off because nobody thought of changing it. | The implication is that if you compiled it with default | options, it wasn't threaded. But now it (the option) has been changed to | be enabled by default, and so the point of that UPDATING entry was that | if you are running with default options, then your Perl will switch from | non-threaded to threaded when you recompile it, | | OK, that part, at least is clear. Yeah, sorry, english is not my mother tongue, my explanations can be a bit off :-) | and you will thus need to recompile all ports that depend on Perl. | | This is the part that is still utterly baffling. | | Why would _anything_ that is in any way dependent upon the Perl | interpreter need to be rebuilt? In this switch to threads=on, has the | language itself changed? And if not, shouldn't the change to | multi-threading capability within the interpreter be utterly transparent | to (and a non-event for) any and all pre-existing Perl code? | | Obviously, there's something that I'm missing, but I have no idea what it | might be. Because, hum, quite a few things change when you enable threads, some headers bits change, some calls that are noop without become real call with, things like that. Now, it obviously is a non issue with ports that only use perl to run scripts, or p5- ports that are only scripts, but for ports that have XS files that get compiled into .so, they need to get recompiled, and the same goes for every bit of software that includes the interpreter. As there is no simple way to differentiate between those two categories of dependencies, I ask people to rebuild (or reinstall, if you're using binary packages) everything. I assure you, it does not make me happy at all to have people rebuild everything depending on Perl every two weeks (like it feels I've been doing that for a few months...) | IF you already had this option enabled to begin with, I believe you don't | need to recompile and reinstall anything (including Perl itself, but do | note that the ports system will then keep thinking that Perl hasn't been | upgraded - which isn't an issue, since the only thing changed here is the | defaults and not any functionality, and so you can just wait to recompile | it when something more serious changes; this is up to you though). | | Hope this clears it up a bit. | | Well, I thank you for your attempt to help clear up the confusion, but I | do confess that the need to rebuild... or the value of rebuilding... all | of the stuff that _depends_ on Perl is still rather entirely mystifying. | | I'm *not* claiming that the maintainer didn't have a good reason for | suggesting these rebuilds. I'm only saying that *I* personally still | don't have a good understanding of what the need for this is/was. As the maintainer, I hope my previous bit did explain that a bit better, if things are not that clear, do feel free to point them out and I'll try better. The thing is that all those explanations can't go into UPDATING, we try to keep it short not to confuse people. -- Mathieu Arnold ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 12:25:26AM -0800, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: pkg_info says that at present I have perl5.14-5.14.4_3 installed. So excuse my french, but why the fuck didn't the command: portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* actually *DO* anything? Wouldn't the pattern perl-5.14.\* fail to match your package perl5.14-5.14.4_3? ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
+--On 22 novembre 2013 00:25:26 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: | AUTHOR: m...@freebsd.org Cough, cough, yeah, I mostly wrote that. | portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* At that time, that line was right. Now, after that, the perl packages name which had the same name (all named perl) and were conflicting and were renamed to perl5 for the default perl, that is, 5.16, and perl5.xx for the non default ones, that are 5.12, 5.14 and 5.18. | pkg_info says that at present I have perl5.14-5.14.4_3 installed. So | excuse my french, but why the fuck didn't the command: | |portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* Now, as you can see, your perl is not named perl-5.14 but perl5.14-5.14.4_3, so, you should change that line to : portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl5.14-5.14.4_3 I'll commit an update to that right now. -- Mathieu Arnold ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
+--On 22 novembre 2013 12:52:26 +0100 Mathieu Arnold m...@mat.cc wrote: | +--On 22 novembre 2013 00:25:26 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette | r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: || pkg_info says that at present I have perl5.14-5.14.4_3 installed. So || excuse my french, but why the fuck didn't the command: || ||portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* | | portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl5.14-5.14.4_3 You should even be able to do the easier : portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f lang/perl5.14 -- Mathieu Arnold ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
I *was* equally setback by this upgrade, but am slowly mostly fixing it on a
build machine to maybe package over to the usual one:
(My quicker pipes have not been working ...)
..
cd /var/db/pkg
gnuls -oSr | grep p5 | head [ increment each time... 10, 20...] | awk
'{print $8 }' xargs -J % find % -type f
-name +MTREE_DIRS -exec /bin/ls -lac {} \;
[ more to the pipe maybe automates the next ...]
...
You'll see ports *since* last upgrading perl and *not since*. Simply type the
older ones into
portmaster -d -B -i -g p5-.. p5-... p5-.
.
I am in a rush on some aspects of this update, so on ones which don't install
use something like...
cd /usr/ports/net/p5-Socket
/bin/rm -rf work
make -DNO_STAGE -DMAKE_JOBS_UNSAFE -DNO_PACKAGE reinstall
YMMV. [ It is quite obviously piecemeal, this method...]
..
Another glitch with this upgrade, every Nth port seemingly wants to revert perl
5.16 5.14 in the process of
install from a package, so I've often
/bin/rm -v /usr/bin/perl
/bin/rm -v /usr/bin/perl5
/bin/rm -v /usr/local/bin/perl
ln -s /usr/local/bin/perl5.16.3 /usr/local/bin/perl
ln -s /usr/local/bin/perl5.16.3 /usr/bin/perl
ln -s /usr/local/bin/perl5.16.3 /usr/bin/perl5
After cntl-c the new failing install-older-perl package *BEFORE* it installs
the older perl *ALSO*
.
If I am wiser next time, and maybe even on this older-perl machine, I'll simply
delete all p5-s after printing them out,
and awk / gtr /xargs the file into portmaster. I expect the workarounds to
still be maybe necc. though.
.
J. Bouquet
Sorry for typos
On Friday, November 22, 2013 3:52 AM, Mathieu Arnold m...@mat.cc wrote:
+--On 22 novembre 2013 00:25:26 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette
r...@tristatelogic.com wrote:
| AUTHOR: m...@freebsd.org
Cough, cough, yeah, I mostly wrote that.
| portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\*
At that time, that line was right. Now, after that, the perl packages name
which had the same name (all named perl) and were conflicting and were
renamed to perl5 for the default perl, that is, 5.16, and perl5.xx for the
non default ones, that are 5.12, 5.14 and 5.18.
| pkg_info says that at present I have perl5.14-5.14.4_3 installed. So
| excuse my french, but why the fuck didn't the command:
|
| portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\*
Now, as you can see, your perl is not named perl-5.14 but
perl5.14-5.14.4_3, so, you should change that line to :
portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl5.14-5.14.4_3
I'll commit an update to that right now.
--
Mathieu Arnold
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Re: Upgrading Perl... Somebody just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
In message 0fc91d46cdc4b54132d12...@atuin.in.mat.cc, Mathieu Arnold m...@mat.cc wrote: +--On 22 novembre 2013 00:25:26 -0800 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: | AUTHOR: m...@freebsd.org Cough, cough, yeah, I mostly wrote that. | portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* At that time, that line was right. Now, after that, the perl packages name which had the same name (all named perl) and were conflicting and were renamed to perl5 for the default perl, that is, 5.16, and perl5.xx for the non default ones, that are 5.12, 5.14 and 5.18. OK. I probably need another cup of coffee (to awaken that last dormant set of of brain cells) before I'll really grok the conflict you've just described, but that's OK. For the moment, at least, you've explained it well enough and I understand it well enough to proceed, and to make progress in my quest to upgrade my ports. | pkg_info says that at present I have perl5.14-5.14.4_3 installed. So | excuse my french, but why the fuck didn't the command: | |portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl-5.14.\* Now, as you can see, your perl is not named perl-5.14 but perl5.14-5.14.4_3, so, you should change that line to : portupgrade -o lang/perl5.16 -f perl5.14-5.14.4_3 Ah! OK. Thank you VERY much. I have just now begun executing the revised command line that you kindly provided, and I'll keep my fingers crossed. (So far things _do_ seem to be progressing nicely.) Hummm Well, that command *did* already complete, as I was typing this message. And now pkg_info says that I have perl5-5.16.3_3 installed. So that is good. Progress. *However* now when I tried to execute the next step you suggested, i.e.: 2) Reinstall everything that depends on Perl: portupgrade -fr perl Once again *nothing* happened! OK, so I scracthed my head for a bit and then tried it this way: portupgrade -fr perl5 Now *that* *did* do something. In fact that appears to have caused Perl (5.16) to be rebuilt and reinstalled all over again *and* now everything in the universe that depended, directly or indirectly on that appears to also be in the process of rebuilding... which is good, I suppose. Now, one last little thing... The note in the UPDATING file dated 20131120 gives essentially the same instructions as the one dated 20131023, *however* it also contains this: 1) Change the option in lang/perl5.16: make -C /usr/ports/lang/perl5.16 config HUH?? I don't understand this at all. What exactly is the option that we are changing here? And what does it matter to anything? It would be Nice if this were entierly less opaque. Regards, rfg ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
