Re: Why are you NOT using FreeBSD -- an example and a solution
Hi, On 13 June 2012 0:20:16 Jason Hellenthal wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 09:53:04AM +0700, Erich wrote: Hi, Hi, Do we really need another one of these pointless rambling threads... if it helps to keep newcomers with FreeBSD. I placed FreeBSD 10 on an empty disk and downloaded then the ports tree from yesterday. http://wiki.freebsd.org/Intel_GPU Read the FAQ ? The problem has not much to do with X. Installation of Joe. Joe is always the first port I install as I am used to its commands. I then download and compile other ports. As I am currently on a low-bandwidth Internet connection, I try to keep the machine busy during the night with large downloads. Irrelevant It is as I only get errors like this when I install Joe first. Parallel downloading and compilation of scribus and xorg-server How can we help newcomers to avoid this kind of problems? By contributing to PRs and the correct mailing list with solutions, outcomes, patches etc... I am one step further now. As I am getting errors like this very often since I use this method of installing ports I thought that there must be something basic what I am doing wrong. The cause of the problem happens much earlier. I used PCBSD to get FreeBSD onto the disk and did then a source upgrade. This went fine. But PCBSD installed many ports. I assumed now that after deleting them with 'pkg_delete -a' there are all gone and installation can start. Of course, pkg_delete brings some error messages that it could not delete this or that as the package list is wrong. After getting the errors mentioned here, I used to run 'make deinstall' in the affected port. This solved the problem. I wonder now what the difference between pkg_delete and make deinstall is. As I mentioned before, I am getting these errors randomly since around 2007. I obviously never used make deinstall then. I will go back now to the FreeBSD ports installation. Part of it made it to this thread under a wrong subject line but its a start... Erich ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why are you NOT using FreeBSD -- an example and a solution
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Erich erichfreebsdl...@ovitrap.com wrote: Hi, On 13 June 2012 0:20:16 Jason Hellenthal wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 09:53:04AM +0700, Erich wrote: Hi, Hi, Do we really need another one of these pointless rambling threads... if it helps to keep newcomers with FreeBSD. I placed FreeBSD 10 on an empty disk and downloaded then the ports tree from yesterday. http://wiki.freebsd.org/Intel_GPU Read the FAQ ? The problem has not much to do with X. Installation of Joe. Joe is always the first port I install as I am used to its commands. I then download and compile other ports. As I am currently on a low-bandwidth Internet connection, I try to keep the machine busy during the night with large downloads. Irrelevant It is as I only get errors like this when I install Joe first. Parallel downloading and compilation of scribus and xorg-server How can we help newcomers to avoid this kind of problems? By contributing to PRs and the correct mailing list with solutions, outcomes, patches etc... I am one step further now. As I am getting errors like this very often since I use this method of installing ports I thought that there must be something basic what I am doing wrong. The cause of the problem happens much earlier. I used PCBSD to get FreeBSD onto the disk and did then a source upgrade. This went fine. But PCBSD installed many ports. I assumed now that after deleting them with 'pkg_delete -a' there are all gone and installation can start. Of course, pkg_delete brings some error messages that it could not delete this or that as the package list is wrong. After getting the errors mentioned here, I used to run 'make deinstall' in the affected port. This solved the problem. I wonder now what the difference between pkg_delete and make deinstall is. As I mentioned before, I am getting these errors randomly since around 2007. I obviously never used make deinstall then. I will go back now to the FreeBSD ports installation. Part of it made it to this thread under a wrong subject line but its a start... I strongly recommend that you install ports-mgmt/portmaster (if you have not done so) and read the man page (YES! You really need to read it all!) and note the example for re-installing all ports. It will assure that all ports are cleanly re-installed. I do admit that I don't delete /usr/local/*, but I do get rid of most everything in it like bin, lib, include (especially important), libexec, libdata, info, modules, man, and so on. (Almost abbreviated and so on to etc which would have triggered much hilarity and some keyboard smashing!) I never install anything of my own in /usr/local, but use /usr/opt for that. If you do it as suggested, you should end up with a very clean, updated system. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why are you NOT using FreeBSD -- an example and a solution
Hi, On 13 June 2012 17:21:30 Kevin Oberman wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Erich erichfreebsdl...@ovitrap.com wrote: On 13 June 2012 0:20:16 Jason Hellenthal wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 09:53:04AM +0700, Erich wrote: I strongly recommend that you install ports-mgmt/portmaster (if you I use portupgrade for upgrades. It should lead to the same result. have not done so) and read the man page (YES! You really need to read it all!) and note the example for re-installing all ports. It will assure that all ports are cleanly re-installed. I do admit that I don't delete /usr/local/*, but I do get rid of most everything in it like bin, lib, include (especially important), libexec, libdata, info, modules, man, and so on. (Almost abbreviated and so on to etc which would have triggered much hilarity and some keyboard smashing!) I never install anything of my own in /usr/local, but use /usr/opt for that. I never did this. It is a good idea as it really cleans the system and you have your own stuff outside the third-party stuff. If you do it as suggested, you should end up with a very clean, updated system. I did not want to upgrade it. I just wanted a fast solution to have FreeBSD running and than start from scratch. This starting from real scratch did not work. It seems that your solution would also solved the problem. I never thought of this. Erich ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Why are you NOT using FreeBSD -- an example
Hi, I placed FreeBSD 10 on an empty disk and downloaded then the ports tree from yesterday. /etc/make/conf looks like this: # Uncomment this if you want to do port builds with no interaction #BATCH=yes # Keep KDE4 in /usr/local, fixes sharing of icons / mime and others KDE4_PREFIX=/usr/local # added by use.perl 2012-01-05 20:44:40 PERL_VERSION=5.12.4 # # 12.06.12 ed: added to support new Intel KMS. # WITH_NEW_XORG=true All the rest is plain default. One thing I have to mention as it might is the cause. I used PCBSD to get FreeBSD onto the machine and upgraded then via sources to 10. I extra did not do anything else as I wanted to show how newcomers who just follow 'official' documentation hit a wall during this procedurefree. I used this page to get information for installing X with Intel KMS support: http://wiki.freebsd.org/Intel_GPU Here is the current status: Ports tree downloaded during the day 12.06.12 Installation of Joe. Joe is always the first port I install as I am used to its commands. I then download and compile other ports. As I am currently on a low-bandwidth Internet connection, I try to keep the machine busy during the night with large downloads. Parallel downloading and compilation of scribus and xorg-server This error came from compiling scribus while xorg was still downloading: g++ -c -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -O2 -Wall -W -DQT_NO_CAST_FROM_ASCII -DQT_NO_CAST_TO_ASCII -DQFORMINTERNAL_NAMESPACE -DQT_KEYWORDS -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_XML_LIB -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_HAVE_MMX -DQT_HAVE_SSE -DQT_HAVE_MMXEXT -DQT_HAVE_SSE2 -DQT_HAVE_SSE3 -DQT_HAVE_SSSE3 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/local/share/qt4/mkspecs/freebsd-g++ -I. -I../../../include/QtUiTools -I../../../include/QtCore -I../../../include/QtGui -I../../../include/QtXml -I../../../include -I../shared -I../../designer/src/uitools -I../../designer/src/lib/uilib -I.moc/release-shared -I.uic/release-shared -I/usr/local/include/qt4 -I/usr/local/include -o .obj/release-shared/moc_finddialog.o .moc/release-shared/moc_finddialog.cpp g++ -Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/ports/devel/qt4-linguist/work/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.8.2/lib -Wl,-O1 -pthread -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib/qt4 -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib/qt4 -o ../../../bin/linguist-qt4 .obj/release-shared/numerus.o .obj/release-shared/translator.o .obj/release-shared/translatormessage.o .obj/release-shared/qm.o .obj/release-shared/qph.o .obj/release-shared/po.o .obj/release-shared/ts.o .obj/release-shared/xliff.o .obj/release-shared/batchtranslationdialog.o .obj/release-shared/errorsview.o .obj/release-shared/finddialog.o .obj/release-shared/formpreviewview.o .obj/release-shared/globals.o .obj/release-shared/main.o .obj/release-shared/mainwindow.o .obj/release-shared/messageeditor.o .obj/release-shared/messageeditorwidgets.o .obj/release-shared/messagehighlighter.o .obj/release-shared/messagemodel.o .obj/release-shared/phrasebookbox.o .obj/release-shared/phrase.o .obj/release-shared/phrasemodel.o .obj/release-shared/phraseview.o .obj/release-shared/printout.o .obj/release-shared/recentfiles.o .obj/release-shared/sourcecodeview.o .obj/release-shared/statistics.o .obj/release-shared/translatedialog.o .obj/release-shared/translationsettingsdialog.o .obj/release-shared/simtexth.o .obj/release-shared/moc_batchtranslationdialog.o .obj/release-shared/moc_errorsview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_finddialog.o .obj/release-shared/moc_formpreviewview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_mainwindow.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messageeditor.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messageeditorwidgets.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messagehighlighter.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messagemodel.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phrasebookbox.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phrase.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phrasemodel.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phraseview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_recentfiles.o .obj/release-shared/moc_sourcecodeview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_statistics.o .obj/release-shared/moc_translatedialog.o .obj/release-shared/moc_translationsettingsdialog.o .obj/release-shared/qrc_linguist.o -L/usr/ports/devel/qt4-linguist/work/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.8.2/lib -L/usr/local/lib/qt4 -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/ports/devel/qt4-linguist/work/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.8.2/lib -L/usr/local/lib/qt4 -L/usr/local/lib -lQtUiTools -lQtXml -lQtGui -lQtCore .obj/release-shared/mainwindow.o:(.rodata._ZTV19SortedContextsModel[_ZTV19SortedContextsModel]+0xc0): undefined reference to `QAbstractProxyModel::setItemData(QModelIndex const, QMapint, QVariant const)' .obj/release-shared/mainwindow.o:(.rodata._ZTV19SortedMessagesModel[_ZTV19SortedMessagesModel]+0xc0): undefined reference to `QAbstractProxyModel::setItemData(QModelIndex const, QMapint, QVariant const)' *** [../../../bin/linguist-qt4] Error code 1 1 error *** [first] Error code 2 1 error *** [sub-linguist-make_default] Error code 2 4 errors *** [do-build] Error
Re: Why are you NOT using FreeBSD -- an example
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 09:53:04AM +0700, Erich wrote: Hi, Hi, Do we really need another one of these pointless rambling threads... I placed FreeBSD 10 on an empty disk and downloaded then the ports tree from yesterday. /etc/make/conf looks like this: # Uncomment this if you want to do port builds with no interaction #BATCH=yes # Keep KDE4 in /usr/local, fixes sharing of icons / mime and others KDE4_PREFIX=/usr/local # added by use.perl 2012-01-05 20:44:40 PERL_VERSION=5.12.4 # # 12.06.12 ed: added to support new Intel KMS. # WITH_NEW_XORG=true New user probably would not have gotten to this point... Just sayin. All the rest is plain default. One thing I have to mention as it might is the cause. I used PCBSD to get FreeBSD onto the machine and upgraded then via sources to 10. I extra did not do anything else as I wanted to show how newcomers who just follow 'official' documentation hit a wall during this procedurefree. The below page is not official documentation. It is a wiki, its soley devoted to developers and those that wish to check the current status and or debug problems. I used this page to get information for installing X with Intel KMS support: http://wiki.freebsd.org/Intel_GPU Read the FAQ ? This whole thread would be better suited to be on x11@ as the FAQ states Here is the current status: Ports tree downloaded during the day 12.06.12 Installation of Joe. Joe is always the first port I install as I am used to its commands. I then download and compile other ports. As I am currently on a low-bandwidth Internet connection, I try to keep the machine busy during the night with large downloads. Irrelevant Parallel downloading and compilation of scribus and xorg-server This error came from compiling scribus while xorg was still downloading: g++ -c -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -O2 -Wall -W -DQT_NO_CAST_FROM_ASCII -DQT_NO_CAST_TO_ASCII -DQFORMINTERNAL_NAMESPACE -DQT_KEYWORDS -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_XML_LIB -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_HAVE_MMX -DQT_HAVE_SSE -DQT_HAVE_MMXEXT -DQT_HAVE_SSE2 -DQT_HAVE_SSE3 -DQT_HAVE_SSSE3 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/local/share/qt4/mkspecs/freebsd-g++ -I. -I../../../include/QtUiTools -I../../../include/QtCore -I../../../include/QtGui -I../../../include/QtXml -I../../../include -I../shared -I../../designer/src/uitools -I../../designer/src/lib/uilib -I.moc/release-shared -I.uic/release-shared -I/usr/local/include/qt4 -I/usr/local/include -o .obj/release-shared/moc_finddialog.o .moc/release-shared/moc_finddialog.cpp g++ -Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/ports/devel/qt4-linguist/work/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.8.2/lib -Wl,-O1 -pthread -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib/qt4 -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib/qt4 -o ../../../bin/linguist-qt4 .obj/release-shared/numerus.o .obj/release-shared/translator.o .obj/release-shared/translatormessage.o .obj/release-shared/qm.o .obj/release-shared/qph.o .obj/release-shared/po.o .obj/release-shared/ts.o .obj/release-shared/xliff.o .obj/release-shared/batchtranslationdialog.o .obj/release-shared/errorsview.o .obj/release-shared/finddialog.o .obj/release-shared/formpreviewview.o .obj/release-shared/globals.o .obj/release-shared/main.o .obj/release-shared/mainwindow.o .obj/release-shared/messageeditor.o .obj/release-shared/messageeditorwidgets.o .obj/release-shared/messagehighlighter.o .obj/release-shared/messagemodel.o .obj/release-shared/phrasebookbox.o .obj/release-shared/phrase.o .obj/release-shared/phrasemodel.o .obj/release-shared/phraseview.o .obj/release-shared/printout.o .obj/release-shared/recentfiles.o .obj/release-shared/sourcecodeview.o .obj/release-shared/statistics.o .obj/release-shared/translatedialog.o .obj/release-shared/translationsettingsdialog.o .obj/release-shared/simtexth.o .obj/release-shared/moc_batchtranslationdialog.o .obj/release-shared/moc_errorsview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_finddialog.o .obj/release-shared/moc_formpreviewview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_mainwindow.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messageeditor.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messageeditorwidgets.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messagehighlighter.o .obj/release-shared/moc_messagemodel.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phrasebookbox.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phrase.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phrasemodel.o .obj/release-shared/moc_phraseview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_recentfiles.o .obj/release-shared/moc_sourcecodeview.o .obj/release-shared/moc_statistics.o .obj/release-shared/moc_translatedialog.o .obj/release-shared/moc_translationsettingsdialog.o .obj/release-shared/qrc_linguist.o-L/usr/ports/devel .obj/release-shared/mainwindow.o:(.rodata._ZTV19SortedContextsModel[_ZTV19SortedContextsModel]+0xc0): undefined reference to `QAbstractProxyModel::setItemData(QModelIndex const, QMapint, QVariant const)'
Re: Why are you NOT using FreeBSD -- an example
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Jason Hellenthal jhellent...@dataix.net wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 09:53:04AM +0700, Erich wrote: Hi, Hi, Do we really need another one of these pointless rambling threads... snip Do not reply to the thread and it will die quickly. Quiet simple. -- mezz.free...@gmail.com - m...@freebsd.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gn...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
WAS: Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ? New: port annoyance LibreOffice
On 06/10/12 17:43, John Merryweather Cooper wrote: On 06/10/12 09:54, Martin Sugioarto wrote: Am Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:37:09 +0100 schrieb Chris Reescr...@freebsd.org: Er... people always test their commits. Sometimes edge cases will creep in, such as the libreoffice failure which was due to different configurations, but to suggest that the commit wasn't tested is quite frankly insulting-- it built on a clean system perfectly well. Hi, I don't mean to insult anyone. As I have already told, I am really thankful that people invest their precious time into updating the ports collection. Whatever clean system means. It is surely not the default case that someone has got a freshly installed set of ports. Among all the default problems with ports, libreoffice[1] adds to the group of annoyances[2] at the moment. I don't know when I have seen portmaster -ad run through successfully last time. I need more and more -x options to exclude ports which fail to build. [1] german/libreoffice and libreoffice fails all the time in (LOCALIZED_LANG is set to de): Module 'lingucomponent' delivered successfully. 12 files copied, 2 files unchanged --- Oh dear - something failed during the build - sorry ! For more help with debugging build errors, please see the section in: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development internal build errors: ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making /usr/workdir-ports/usr/ports/editors/libreoffice/work/libreoffice-core-3.5.2.2/vcl/prj it seems that the error is inside 'vcl', please re-run build inside this module to isolate the error and/or test your fix: --- Whatever this tries to tell me. I don't get it. This is a completely useless error message for me. Not even in german/libreoffice. i try to build the standard version and I receive the same error. I can fix this by doing what the buildsystem suggests, but then I have a stop in sfx2 and others and it ends up in some module called tail_, where the build never ends when performing the repair as suggested. I had once a box running all the night looping building in this folder. [2] The default annoyances are for example: - After updating perl, php or whatever, it makes sense to enforce updating the modules that belong to these ports. I've seen 100x the same message that p5-XML-Parser does not work and know what it means, but this should be resolved by the port system. I mean, when you update perl, the perl modules won't work anymore. This is totally clear and it makes sense to update them first before going on. I can confirm that. I fixed that for me by portmaster p5- in case p5-SAX-XXX failed. - When specifying WITHOUT_X11 the ports should respect this and not try to pull in the X11 variants of ports. I regularly see some ports pulling ImageMagick instead of the already installed ImageMagick-nox11. I still do not fully understand what is going on with WITHOUT_GNOME, but I'll try to figure it out later. But I am quite sure that some ports pull in unneeded Gnome dependencies. - Ports are being marked as interactive and stop the update process. The idea behind portmaster was (earlier) to avoid interactive building of ports and ask all the needed questions, before the builds start. I mean, earlier, I could get out and enjoy some coffee outdoors, now I have to sit at the keyboard. This is unacceptable! ;) portmaster does even more damage. Sometimed a port reels in some newly updates, a port gets deleted. if on of the to be updated prerquisits fail, the port in question isn't there anymore. portmaster fails quite often in oberwriting remnant files. If a port gets corrupted by accident, like graphics/netpbm, One need to delete all binaries manually from /usr/local/bin, otherwise the installation fails. Somehow I wish to have a brute force knob to overwrite everything in a brutal way. - It would be nice to have a mechanism that tells you that your perl, mysql or whatever is not the default version anymore and you should consider updating to the default (and recommended) port. Martin From /etc/defaults/periodic.conf: # 400.status-pkg weekly_status_pkg_enable=YES# Find out-of-date pkgs pkg_version=pkg_version # Use this program pkg_version_index=/usr/ports/INDEX-9 # Use this index file There's an override script in ports-mgmt/portupgrade that uses it's database, also. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: WAS: Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ? New: port annoyance LibreOffice
On 10 June 2012 18:10, O. Hartmann ohart...@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote: On 06/10/12 17:43, John Merryweather Cooper wrote: On 06/10/12 09:54, Martin Sugioarto wrote: Am Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:37:09 +0100 schrieb Chris Reescr...@freebsd.org: Er... people always test their commits. Sometimes edge cases will creep in, such as the libreoffice failure which was due to different configurations, but to suggest that the commit wasn't tested is quite frankly insulting-- it built on a clean system perfectly well. Hi, I don't mean to insult anyone. As I have already told, I am really thankful that people invest their precious time into updating the ports collection. Whatever clean system means. It is surely not the default case that someone has got a freshly installed set of ports. Among all the default problems with ports, libreoffice[1] adds to the group of annoyances[2] at the moment. I don't know when I have seen portmaster -ad run through successfully last time. I need more and more -x options to exclude ports which fail to build. [1] german/libreoffice and libreoffice fails all the time in (LOCALIZED_LANG is set to de): Module 'lingucomponent' delivered successfully. 12 files copied, 2 files unchanged --- Oh dear - something failed during the build - sorry ! For more help with debugging build errors, please see the section in: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development internal build errors: ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making /usr/workdir-ports/usr/ports/editors/libreoffice/work/libreoffice-core-3.5.2.2/vcl/prj it seems that the error is inside 'vcl', please re-run build inside this module to isolate the error and/or test your fix: --- Whatever this tries to tell me. I don't get it. This is a completely useless error message for me. Not even in german/libreoffice. i try to build the standard version and I receive the same error. I can fix this by doing what the buildsystem suggests, but then I have a stop in sfx2 and others and it ends up in some module called tail_, where the build never ends when performing the repair as suggested. I had once a box running all the night looping building in this folder. [2] The default annoyances are for example: - After updating perl, php or whatever, it makes sense to enforce updating the modules that belong to these ports. I've seen 100x the same message that p5-XML-Parser does not work and know what it means, but this should be resolved by the port system. I mean, when you update perl, the perl modules won't work anymore. This is totally clear and it makes sense to update them first before going on. I can confirm that. I fixed that for me by portmaster p5- in case p5-SAX-XXX failed. There's an UPDATING message written for that very purpose. - When specifying WITHOUT_X11 the ports should respect this and not try to pull in the X11 variants of ports. I regularly see some ports pulling ImageMagick instead of the already installed ImageMagick-nox11. I still do not fully understand what is going on with WITHOUT_GNOME, but I'll try to figure it out later. But I am quite sure that some ports pull in unneeded Gnome dependencies. - Ports are being marked as interactive and stop the update process. The idea behind portmaster was (earlier) to avoid interactive building of ports and ask all the needed questions, before the builds start. I mean, earlier, I could get out and enjoy some coffee outdoors, now I have to sit at the keyboard. This is unacceptable! ;) portmaster does even more damage. Sometimed a port reels in some newly updates, a port gets deleted. if on of the to be updated prerquisits fail, the port in question isn't there anymore. portmaster fails quite often in oberwriting remnant files. If a port gets corrupted by accident, like graphics/netpbm, One need to delete all binaries manually from /usr/local/bin, otherwise the installation fails. Somehow I wish to have a brute force knob to overwrite everything in a brutal way. FORCE_PKG_REGISTER. - It would be nice to have a mechanism that tells you that your perl, mysql or whatever is not the default version anymore and you should consider updating to the default (and recommended) port. Martin From /etc/defaults/periodic.conf: # 400.status-pkg weekly_status_pkg_enable=YES # Find out-of-date pkgs pkg_version=pkg_version # Use this program pkg_version_index=/usr/ports/INDEX-9 # Use this index file There's an override script in ports-mgmt/portupgrade that uses it's database, also. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any
Re: WAS: Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ? New: port annoyance LibreOffice
On 06/10/12 19:20, Chris Rees wrote: On 10 June 2012 18:10, O. Hartmann ohart...@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote: On 06/10/12 17:43, John Merryweather Cooper wrote: On 06/10/12 09:54, Martin Sugioarto wrote: Am Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:37:09 +0100 schrieb Chris Reescr...@freebsd.org: Er... people always test their commits. Sometimes edge cases will creep in, such as the libreoffice failure which was due to different configurations, but to suggest that the commit wasn't tested is quite frankly insulting-- it built on a clean system perfectly well. Hi, I don't mean to insult anyone. As I have already told, I am really thankful that people invest their precious time into updating the ports collection. Whatever clean system means. It is surely not the default case that someone has got a freshly installed set of ports. Among all the default problems with ports, libreoffice[1] adds to the group of annoyances[2] at the moment. I don't know when I have seen portmaster -ad run through successfully last time. I need more and more -x options to exclude ports which fail to build. [1] german/libreoffice and libreoffice fails all the time in (LOCALIZED_LANG is set to de): Module 'lingucomponent' delivered successfully. 12 files copied, 2 files unchanged --- Oh dear - something failed during the build - sorry ! For more help with debugging build errors, please see the section in: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development internal build errors: ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making /usr/workdir-ports/usr/ports/editors/libreoffice/work/libreoffice-core-3.5.2.2/vcl/prj it seems that the error is inside 'vcl', please re-run build inside this module to isolate the error and/or test your fix: --- Whatever this tries to tell me. I don't get it. This is a completely useless error message for me. Not even in german/libreoffice. i try to build the standard version and I receive the same error. I can fix this by doing what the buildsystem suggests, but then I have a stop in sfx2 and others and it ends up in some module called tail_, where the build never ends when performing the repair as suggested. I had once a box running all the night looping building in this folder. [2] The default annoyances are for example: - After updating perl, php or whatever, it makes sense to enforce updating the modules that belong to these ports. I've seen 100x the same message that p5-XML-Parser does not work and know what it means, but this should be resolved by the port system. I mean, when you update perl, the perl modules won't work anymore. This is totally clear and it makes sense to update them first before going on. I can confirm that. I fixed that for me by portmaster p5- in case p5-SAX-XXX failed. There's an UPDATING message written for that very purpose. And even WITH this message written in /usr/ports/UPDATING and follwoing those instrauctions, I have had the very same problem as for years now with this port. The problem is, if you'd like to do an automated or unattended update of the ports, you stumble very quickly in such a kind of show stopper. If you do not update on a regular basis, those problems develop in very serious problems. By the way, the reason why I update also the ports on a regular basis IS because of 100% sure problems if I wait for weeks or months. - When specifying WITHOUT_X11 the ports should respect this and not try to pull in the X11 variants of ports. I regularly see some ports pulling ImageMagick instead of the already installed ImageMagick-nox11. I still do not fully understand what is going on with WITHOUT_GNOME, but I'll try to figure it out later. But I am quite sure that some ports pull in unneeded Gnome dependencies. - Ports are being marked as interactive and stop the update process. The idea behind portmaster was (earlier) to avoid interactive building of ports and ask all the needed questions, before the builds start. I mean, earlier, I could get out and enjoy some coffee outdoors, now I have to sit at the keyboard. This is unacceptable! ;) portmaster does even more damage. Sometimed a port reels in some newly updates, a port gets deleted. if on of the to be updated prerquisits fail, the port in question isn't there anymore. portmaster fails quite often in oberwriting remnant files. If a port gets corrupted by accident, like graphics/netpbm, One need to delete all binaries manually from /usr/local/bin, otherwise the installation fails. Somehow I wish to have a brute force knob to overwrite everything in a brutal way. FORCE_PKG_REGISTER. Enabled by default in /etc/make.conf in my configuration. And the problem still persists ... signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
WAS: Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ? New: port annoyance LibreOffice
O. Hartmann writes: Among all the default problems with ports, libreoffice[1] adds to the group of annoyances[2] at the moment. I don't know when I have seen portmaster -ad run through successfully last time. I need more and more -x options to exclude ports which fail to build. [1] german/libreoffice and libreoffice fails all the time in (LOCALIZED_LANG is set to de): There is a known problem with libreoffice and boost, specifically a conflict between the boost port and the internal version. There is a work-around; however, at the moment the libreoffice maintainer does not have the time to rectify matters. See the recent/ongoing thread in either ports@ or office@ for more information. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hello. I wish we could use FreeBSD as basic platform, but it is not possible. We met several problems which led to mass migration to Debian. First of all, hardware support. EMC multipath was not supported by FreeBSD 8, and it was a necessary thing in our environment. We tried to use custom patches, but met wired boot0 behavior - it randomly hung. We were interested in VNET jails to have separate network stack for a jail, but they were not stable enough. And the last thing - there were no means of resource control to prevent malfunctioning jail to influence badly the whole system. So, we moved our infrastructure to OpenVZ/Debian and got all this plus possibility of live migration for containers and easy binary package management. -- Best regards, Alexander Pyhalov, system administrator of Computer Center of Southern Federal University ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 6/3/12, Erich erichfreebsdl...@ovitrap.com wrote: ... On 03 June 2012 PM 1:12:38 b. f. wrote: On 03 June 2012 PM 5:42:55 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 17:24, Etienne Robillard wrote: ... With regard to your request for a versioned Ports trees -- well, we have had that for about 18 years, since the Ports tree is kept under version control in CVS, and you are free to check out snapshots using anonymous CVS or CVSup -- all you have to do is specify a tag or date I would not know for what tag I would have to go to solve a specific Problem. Here we encounter a problem with your argument: it is unlikely that your hypothetical helpless beginner would know what to do with a versioned ports tree, even if he or she knew that it does in fact exist. Any such person who requires reliability should really be using binary packages and binary base-system updates prepared by someone else, and not compiling from source. There have been considerable improvements on this front, with freebsd-update and pkgng ( http://wiki.freebsd.org/pkgng ). If you want to help, you should become familiar with these, and suggest concrete changes that you think would assist your beginner. Returning to your question: a common-sense answer would be to fall back to the last-known suitable Ports tree snapshot -- or to the snapshot distributed with the last release, or the release that you are using. To use the ports tree snapshot distributed with a particular release, use the ports (not the src!) release tags as described in: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/cvs-tags.html (Here the description could be changed to avoid confusion -- the list of specific release tags could be changed to indicate that they are src release tags only, as briefly described in the first paragraph of A.7.2, and the corresponding ports release tags could be added.) For example, in order to obtain the ports tree corresponding to the 8.3 release, use: tag=RELEASE_8_3_0 instead of the usual tag=. in a ports sup file (a comment to that effect could be added to src/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile) -- or use the corresponding -r option with cvs(1).The available tags are also visible through the pull-down Show only files with tag menu at the web interface: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/ and of course someone who is familiar with CVS could find them. The tag is one kind of version number. The other kind of version number that is available is a date spec -- for csup(1) this takes the form: [cc]yy.mm.dd.hh.mm.ss where the abbreviations represent the usual century. year, month, day, hour, minute, and second. To use this, just add a date=... line in your sup file, to replace or supersede any tag=... line. So, for example, to fetch the ports tree as it was immediately before the png update, determine the time of the png update (for example, via the cvsweb interface above, or freshports [ http://www.freshports.org ] or freshbsd [ http://www.freshbsd.org ] or the cvs-ports mailing list [ http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/cvs-ports/ ], or by looking at the revision time-stamp in ports/graphics/png/Makefile), and then substitute: date=2012.06.01.05.10.00 (that is, a few minutes before the png update) for the usual tag=. in a ports sup file -- or use the corresponding -D option with cvs(1). If these procedures aren't explained in great detail in the handbook or manpages, even though the tags and date specs are defined, it is probably because we assume that people who want to build specific revisions of ports from source, and who are able to do so, already have some familiarity with VCS. ... And you are, of course, free to use FreeBSD with other packaging They will feel to be free to use Windows. They can feel free to use whatever they please: I was only pointing out that using FreeBSD does not require the use of FreeBSD Ports. ... As far as your example from your other message about having to combine a png update with work over the course of a weekend -- I don't know why you would be fooling around with an update of your Ports tree or your installed ports while working under a tight deadline, but if you have backups, you should be able to recover from most problems fairly quickly. Because it is written in the handbook? Because it is common-sense to have back-ups if you require reliability. But if you feel that this should be explicitly mentioned in the handbook, submit some suggestions for changes or additions to the document committers. At least some time ago the handbook stated to update the ports tree before installing new ports. The new comer will do this and then get stuck. Do not forget that I am not talking here for people who know what they are doing, I am talking about a hurdle newcomers are facing or people who just want to use a computer as a tool. Again, a true novice who requires reliability ought to be using packages, and or get someone else to manage his
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 04 June 2012 12:08:14 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/4/2012 4:23, Erich Dollansky wrote: On 03 June 2012 PM 11:41:12 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 19:19, Erich Dollansky wrote: do a simple thing. Install a naked 8.3, 9.0 or 10.0 on a fresh hard disk. Get then the ports tree and start compiling X. I did not get a running system since at least 2007 when I did this. There was always at least one manual intervention needed. I did this the last time in the first week of May. Yes, I know how to fix this. Yes, I reported things like this at the beginning. After getting always the answer that it is working on my machine, I stopped reporting it. Just built a VM and installed 9.0-R from the ISO. Installed gnu-screen and bash (from ports). you did not compile it as the first item. I don't understand what you are saying. I did a 'make install' on a clean system with only bash and screen installed (I did update ports first). yes, you installed bash and screen first. Can you try it without? I really try to install X as the first thing after I finished installation. I wonder why you need bash from the ports at that stage? If this still works for you, I will have to install FreeBSD after my return. This will take some weeks. It could even be that my journey will get extended. So, be patient. Erich ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 6/4/2012 18:07, Erich wrote: yes, you installed bash and screen first. Can you try it without? Doesn't tinderbox do this every night? I really try to install X as the first thing after I finished installation. I wonder why you need bash from the ports at that stage? Because that is what I use as my shell, and I use GNU Screen so if my connection terminates I can reattach. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 6/4/12 7:36 AM, Adam Strohl wrote: Doesn't tinderbox do this every night? And, as a committer, here is the point. We get reports of 'this doesn't build'. (no fixed attached, no logs, no indication of what was installed first, what options taken), we try to get information on what happended and just get 'I am just trying to tel lyou its broken, and I don't have time to tell you why, its your os, you fix it') want a link to a recient pr where that happened? So, we run it up in a tinderbox (for the newbie who wants this to work like windoes or linx , I will explain: A tinderbox is a special virtual chrooted (jail) envirnoment. The tinderbox creates a blank tree, with a free copy of FreeBSD (x), copies a free ports tree to it, and creates packages. (pkg_create). /generically/ it builds these with default options (since this is a batch process, that is all we can do). If the system can fetch the source, apply the patches, compile the program, package it, pulls in all the necessary LIB and BUILD depends and then deletes the packages without leaving any leftovers, we consider the package fine /with default options/ This is why we ask that the luser tell us what strange things they have in make.conf, recommend that they update their ports tree (since we are running with a free ports tree), and tell us what non standard options were selected. If we can't reproduce it, we can't fix it. Many times we find that the user did not update the ports according to the instructions in /usr/ports/UPDATING, which, for all language ports (python, perl, php), involve more then just 'portmaster php-') Once a ports tree is broken by (even a seemingly successful update), sometime down the road, something can and will rise up to byte[sic] you. Give us the billions and billions of $$ MS has and the minions they have and maybe we can spend a year between os releases (oh, and sorry, but MS has no ports tree, and if a third party product doesn't work, don't even call them, they will charge you $300 to tell you to go back to the manufacturer) -- Michael Scheidell, CTO *| * SECNAP Network Security Corporation d: +1.561.948.2259 w: http://people.freebsd.org/~scheidell ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 23:03:47 Janketh Jay wrote: On 06/03/2012 08:50 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote: On 03 June 2012 PM 7:54:46 Janketh Jay wrote: a person who operated Windows for some years does not see him/herself as a newcomer but still fails on FreeBSD. The word goes around then that FreeBSD is bad. This is fine, actually. As mentioned, it's not intended for individuals that want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Anyone who labels FreeBSD as bad because they aren't familiar with it is an idiot, IMO. This isn't Microsoft, no matter how much people might want it to be. And, it never will be. Use this list if you have questions about ports. Is that really so difficult for people to do? If so, no big deal. The FreeBSD developers, contributors and maintainers are not here to hold people's hands. We're here to help people help themselves... how will you ever get newcomers to FreeBSD if not via Linux? Why should people running Linux switch to FreeBSD? This is a dangerous route. Did you forget how you started with FreeBSD? We don't need people from Linux to migrate to FreeBSD. There are plenty of others out there that simply want to try it. Generally, Linux users are very adamant about it. So, they continue to use it regardless of what else is out there. Same for Windows and Mac users. To each their own. If someone feels the need to check it out, the more the merrier. FreeBSD isn't in the business of sucking people in. Curiosity alone is enough to keep people using it. Especially when they find out how solid it is. As far as how I started using it, this had nothing to do with Linux. In fact, I used BSD before I even gave Linux a second thought. I was intrigued with the fact that many large businesses (Including Microsoft) used FreeBSD as their server OS. The rest is history. I began using it - I struggled - I read the Handbook - I asked questions. That's it. I'm extremely happy I did so and I can't fathom migrating my production systems to anything else. You are really working hard to keep the FreeBSD installations low. It does not help FreeBSD if it is believed to be an elite operating system. Linux is by no way less complex and still many more people us it. Why? FreeBSD *IS* an elite operating system. By elite I don't mean what most people will think I mean. I'm simply stating that it takes a reasonable amount of time to grow comfortable with it. Along with any UNIX-like OS. If it were really simple to use, everyone would be using it, right? This should not be a reason to make its use more difficult for beginners. What will happen to FreeBSD when there are not beginners anymore? You cannot ask people to learn first with other operating systems and then move to FreeBSD. At least I can still claim that I learned with BSD at the university. This is even the main reason for using FreeBSD. I do not understand why people get pushed away instead of offering them a helping hand. This is at least what I do whenever possible. There will always be beginners. People are curious. That's how everything gets it's start. Well, besides Microsoft who was basically the only supplier of personal computers in the beginning. No one is asking anyone to learn something else first. People can come straight to FreeBSD (or any BSD for that matter) directly out of the womb. However, expecting hand-holding is something that simply isn't going to happen. In fact, I've RTFM so many times it makes me sick. But, that sickness has turned into a love. It's all about solidity, man! Curiosity kills every cat. :) There is no reason to assume that people get pushed away from using FBSD. There are plenty of resources out there where people have gone above and beyond to help n00bs out. There is how-to for almost anything! On top of that, the forums and mailing lists are STILL helping people that refuse to RTFM. There are exponential amounts of help out there. If people aren't willing to learn, that's where the problem ensues. And Linux, as far as I'm concerned is more complex than FreeBSD. I would not use the word complex, I use the word chaotic. I can agree with chaotic... Especially it's package management. I don't like the idea of having no choices when I install an application. Of course, I could go WAY out This depends very much on the distribution. This even changes very fast from release to release. The release changes are actually what drive me the most nuts. I can't remember the last time I was able to update a Debian or Ubuntu release without having to do SERIOUS work to make it function the same as before. I don't like dealing with that. of my way to create, build, and install an SRPM, but bugger that! It's not easy! Linux is only thought of as easy because of the graphical
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 6/4/2012 18:36, Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/4/2012 18:07, Erich wrote: yes, you installed bash and screen first. Can you try it without? From a 100% clean install: - portsnap fetch extract update - compiled x-org + VMware driver No issues, works fine.
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 04 June 2012 21:10:31 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/4/2012 18:36, Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/4/2012 18:07, Erich wrote: yes, you installed bash and screen first. Can you try it without? From a 100% clean install: - portsnap fetch extract update - compiled x-org + VMware driver No issues, works fine. I was not that lucky. For 8.0, it was with the NVidea driver, in the first week of my, it was with 9.0 and the Intel driver. Let me arrive back home to have another try. Erich ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 6/4/2012 21:59, Erich wrote: Hi, On 04 June 2012 21:10:31 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/4/2012 18:36, Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/4/2012 18:07, Erich wrote: yes, you installed bash and screen first. Can you try it without? From a 100% clean install: - portsnap fetch extract update - compiled x-org + VMware driver No issues, works fine. I was not that lucky. For 8.0, it was with the NVidea driver, in the first week of my, it was with 9.0 and the Intel driver. Let me arrive back home to have another try. Sure, and if you do have issues post what the specific error and port is where it happened. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On Mon, Jun 04, 2012 at 07:53:52AM -0400, Michael Scheidell wrote: On 6/4/12 7:36 AM, Adam Strohl wrote: Doesn't tinderbox do this every night? And, as a committer, here is the point. We get reports of 'this doesn't build'. (no fixed attached, no logs, no indication of what was installed first, what options taken), [...] So, we run it up in a tinderbox People who want to understand port failures should be first checking to see if the port builds in a completely clean environment. The best way to do this is to see if it has built on our build cluster (where a clean environment is forced), and the quickest way to do that is to use portsmon as a summary of the port across the various buildenvs. For example: http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portoverview.py?category=wwwportname=chromium We can see that chromium is currently having a number of build problems. It also has a number of PRs filed against it. On the overview page for each port are links to both CVSWeb, as well as the information FreshPorts displays for the port: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/www/chromium/ http://www.freshports.org/www/chromium So I recommend that we suggest to people who are having problems with a particular port use portsmon as a start here resource. mcl ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 06/03/2012 06:14 AM, Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 11:14, Erich wrote: What I really do not understand in this whole discussion is very simple. Is it just a few people who run into problems like this or is this simply ignored by the people who set the strategy for FreeBSD? I mention since yeares here that putting version numbers onto the port tree would solve many of these problems. All I get as an answer is that it is not possible. I think that this should be easily possible with the limitation that older versions do not have security fixes. Yes, but of what help is a security fix if there is no running port for the fix? I feel like I'm missing something. Why would you ever want to go back to an old version of the ports tree? You're ignoring tons of security issues! And if a port build is broken then the maintainer needs to fix it, that is the solution. I must be missing something else here, it just seems like the underlying need for this is misguided (and dangerous from a security perspective). ___ freebsd-sta...@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Technical debt perhaps counts when upstream vendor new versions breaks things unexpectingly ? just sayin E -- Etienne Robillard Occupation: Software Developer Company:Green Tea Hackers Club Email: e...@gthcfoundation.org Website:gthcfoundation.org Skype ID: incidah ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 6/3/2012 17:24, Etienne Robillard wrote: Technical debt perhaps counts when upstream vendor new versions breaks things unexpectingly ? For this to happen though that means one of two things: 1. The port maintainer has updated the port to grab this new version, and tested it (and it worked) then committed the change. And now it doesn't work for some people/setups. They need to know and fix it. 2. Then the upstream vendor, behind everyone's back, changes the code inside the distro file(s). This then breaks the MD5/SHA256 check. The port maintainer needs to know so they can fix it. For #1 I see it as delaying the fix (I won't report my problem, I'll just use an old version). For #2 Having an old version of the ports tree wouldn't solve this issue since it was prompted by a change by the vendor to begin with. I feel like this thread is grossly overstating how often ports are broken which is super rare in my experience. Proposing a version'd ports tree seems like a bad-practice-encouraging-solution to a problem that doesn't really exist [in my experience]. And it is bad practice. There is a constant stream of security issues being discovered and ignoring them is totally inappropriate. Yes there are rare situations where you have to make a trade off on security to fit some highly specialized need but I wouldn't want that to be encouraged and it certainly isn't the solution to broken ports. P.S. Not subbed to -ports, CC me on replies. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 5:42:55 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 17:24, Etienne Robillard wrote: I feel like this thread is grossly overstating how often ports are broken which is super rare in my experience. Proposing a version'd ports tree seems like a bad-practice-encouraging-solution to a problem that doesn't really exist [in my experience]. do a simple thing. Install a naked 8.3, 9.0 or 10.0 on a fresh hard disk. Get then the ports tree and start compiling X. I did not get a running system since at least 2007 when I did this. There was always at least one manual intervention needed. I did this the last time in the first week of May. Yes, I know how to fix this. Yes, I reported things like this at the beginning. After getting always the answer that it is working on my machine, I stopped reporting it. Erich ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 6/3/2012 19:19, Erich Dollansky wrote: do a simple thing. Install a naked 8.3, 9.0 or 10.0 on a fresh hard disk. Get then the ports tree and start compiling X. I did not get a running system since at least 2007 when I did this. There was always at least one manual intervention needed. I did this the last time in the first week of May. Yes, I know how to fix this. Yes, I reported things like this at the beginning. After getting always the answer that it is working on my machine, I stopped reporting it. Just built a VM and installed 9.0-R from the ISO. Installed gnu-screen and bash (from ports). Built and installed xorg-server from ports without issue: === Compressing manual pages for xorg-server-1.7.7_5,1 === Registering installation for xorg-server-1.7.7_5,1 === SECURITY REPORT: This port has installed the following binaries which execute with increased privileges. /usr/local/bin/Xorg This port has installed the following files which may act as network servers and may therefore pose a remote security risk to the system. /usr/local/bin/Xorg If there are vulnerabilities in these programs there may be a security risk to the system. FreeBSD makes no guarantee about the security of ports included in the Ports Collection. Please type 'make deinstall' to deinstall the port if this is a concern. For more information, and contact details about the security status of this software, see the following webpage: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/xorg - root - xwintest.dsn - /usr/ports/x11-servers/xorg-server - 23:20:59 ICT ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 03 June 2012 PM 5:42:55 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 17:24, Etienne Robillard wrote: I feel like this thread is grossly overstating how often ports are broken which is super rare in my experience. Proposing a version'd ports tree seems like a bad-practice-encouraging-solution to a problem that doesn't really exist [in my experience]. do a simple thing. Install a naked 8.3, 9.0 or 10.0 on a fresh hard disk. Get then the ports tree and start compiling X. I did not get a running system since at least 2007 when I did this. There was always at least one manual intervention needed. I did this the last time in the first week of May. Yes, I know how to fix this. Yes, I reported things like this at the beginning. After getting always the answer that it is working on my machine, I stopped reporting it. It is difficult to know how to respond to these anecdotes -- we don't know how many and what kind of problems you encountered, what you did when you performed these builds, and how you went about reporting the problems -- all of which can make a big difference in the outcome. I will only say that, apart from occasional disruptions, it is usually possible now to build commonly-used ports with default options on amd64 and i386 in controlled builds without incident. And the numbers from the FreeBSD package-building cluster support this: http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/packagestats.html http://portsmon.FreeBSD.org/chartsandgraphs/brokenpercents.html On a live system, or for a custom build, I have had to make occasional changes (or have chosen to) -- but again I have found that it is usually possible to keep several hundred ports in reasonably good working order, even with weekly updates, without intervening too often. Someone who was more conservative -- avoids frequent updates, especially during major changes; backs-up packages; checks the mailing lists before updating; etc. -- shouldn't encounter too many problems. But if you are not prepared to make occasional changes, then I do not know why you are building from source, especially on a live system, instead of using binary packages. If you don't wish to use packages produced on the FreeBSD cluster, then it is not too hard to use a tinderbox or pkgng to produce your own, or get someone to do it for you. With regard to your request for a versioned Ports trees -- well, we have had that for about 18 years, since the Ports tree is kept under version control in CVS, and you are free to check out snapshots using anonymous CVS or CVSup -- all you have to do is specify a tag or date spec, as described in several places -- csup(1), cvs(1), the FreeBSD Handbook, etc. You can even get per-delta granularity via ctm(1), and I'd guess that there is a way to do it using rsync, too. And if you don't like CVS, then you can import the repository into another VCS. So it has always been possible to roll back to earlier versions of the ports tree without too much trouble. What is more difficult, and what is unlikely to happen soon, because we don't have enough manpower and computing resources, is to maintain multiple versions of the tree that are selectively updated. But I suspect that it would be less trouble for you to just work to solve problems with the current Ports tree than to try to do this yourself. And you are, of course, free to use FreeBSD with other packaging systems, like pkgsrc. Or to use one of the FreeBSD hybrids produced by Gentoo, Debian, et al., with their respective packaging systems. Using FreeBSD does not mean that you have to use FreeBSD Ports, although this may be a good choice for you. As far as your example from your other message about having to combine a png update with work over the course of a weekend -- I don't know why you would be fooling around with an update of your Ports tree or your installed ports while working under a tight deadline, but if you have backups, you should be able to recover from most problems fairly quickly. b. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 11:41:12 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 19:19, Erich Dollansky wrote: do a simple thing. Install a naked 8.3, 9.0 or 10.0 on a fresh hard disk. Get then the ports tree and start compiling X. I did not get a running system since at least 2007 when I did this. There was always at least one manual intervention needed. I did this the last time in the first week of May. Yes, I know how to fix this. Yes, I reported things like this at the beginning. After getting always the answer that it is working on my machine, I stopped reporting it. Just built a VM and installed 9.0-R from the ISO. Installed gnu-screen and bash (from ports). you did not compile it as the first item. Built and installed xorg-server from ports without issue: building is not the problem. Start it. I do not remember what was wrong this time. Erich === Compressing manual pages for xorg-server-1.7.7_5,1 === Registering installation for xorg-server-1.7.7_5,1 === SECURITY REPORT: This port has installed the following binaries which execute with increased privileges. /usr/local/bin/Xorg This port has installed the following files which may act as network servers and may therefore pose a remote security risk to the system. /usr/local/bin/Xorg If there are vulnerabilities in these programs there may be a security risk to the system. FreeBSD makes no guarantee about the security of ports included in the Ports Collection. Please type 'make deinstall' to deinstall the port if this is a concern. For more information, and contact details about the security status of this software, see the following webpage: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/xorg - root - xwintest.dsn - /usr/ports/x11-servers/xorg-server - 23:20:59 ICT ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 1:12:38 b. f. wrote: On 03 June 2012 PM 5:42:55 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 17:24, Etienne Robillard wrote: I feel like this thread is grossly overstating how often ports are broken which is super rare in my experience. Proposing a version'd ports tree seems like a bad-practice-encouraging-solution to a problem that doesn't really exist [in my experience]. do a simple thing. Install a naked 8.3, 9.0 or 10.0 on a fresh hard disk. Get then the ports tree and start compiling X. I did not get a running system since at least 2007 when I did this. There was always at least one manual intervention needed. I did this the last time in the first week of May. Yes, I know how to fix this. Yes, I reported things like this at the beginning. After getting always the answer that it is working on my machine, I stopped reporting it. It is difficult to know how to respond to these anecdotes -- we don't know how many and what kind of problems you encountered, what you did I know. It was always something simple. Like building a port by hand which was needed by X. when you performed these builds, and how you went about reporting the problems -- all of which can make a big difference in the outcome. I will only say that, apart from occasional disruptions, it is usually possible now to build commonly-used ports with default options on amd64 and i386 in controlled builds without incident. And the numbers from the FreeBSD package-building cluster support this: I know this. As I said, it was always something very simple. With regard to your request for a versioned Ports trees -- well, we have had that for about 18 years, since the Ports tree is kept under version control in CVS, and you are free to check out snapshots using anonymous CVS or CVSup -- all you have to do is specify a tag or date I would not know for what tag I would have to go to solve a specific Problem. spec, as described in several places -- csup(1), cvs(1), the FreeBSD Handbook, etc. You can even get per-delta granularity via ctm(1), and I'd guess that there is a way to do it using rsync, too. And if you don't like CVS, then you can import the repository into another VCS. This is a show stopper for a beginner. So it has always been possible to roll back to earlier versions of the ports tree without too much trouble. What is more difficult, and what is unlikely to happen soon, because we don't have enough manpower and computing resources, is to maintain multiple versions of the tree that are selectively updated. But I suspect that it would be less trouble This is not what I am asking. The ports tree should not be maintained. All I am asking is to make what seems to be 100% in place available to the beginner via a version number. The beginner can than use this version number to fall back to something that will work for him. for you to just work to solve problems with the current Ports tree than to try to do this yourself. And you are, of course, free to use FreeBSD with other packaging They will feel to be free to use Windows. systems, like pkgsrc. Or to use one of the FreeBSD hybrids produced by Gentoo, Debian, et al., with their respective packaging systems. Using FreeBSD does not mean that you have to use FreeBSD Ports, although this may be a good choice for you. As far as your example from your other message about having to combine a png update with work over the course of a weekend -- I don't know why you would be fooling around with an update of your Ports tree or your installed ports while working under a tight deadline, but if you have backups, you should be able to recover from most problems fairly quickly. Because it is written in the handbook? At least some time ago the handbook stated to update the ports tree before installing new ports. The new comer will do this and then get stuck. Do not forget that I am not talking here for people who know what they are doing, I am talking about a hurdle newcomers are facing or people who just want to use a computer as a tool. Erich b. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Erich, FreeBSD is in no way intended to be used by computer newcomers. If they're comfortable with Windows, then they should use it. If someone wants to try using FreeBSD and runs into issues, that is what the forums, mailing lists, FreeBSD Handbook, and many other resources are for. That being said, there is no reason for FreeBSD to be more user-friendly when it comes to installing older ports. That just sounds ridiculous in itself. If someone wants to use an older port, they can download it manually or using something like portdowngrade. Of course, this becomes a serious security risk (depending on the port) but FreeBSD will still allow anyone to do this. If this simply isn't good enough, then perhaps the user should think about trying to use a different OS. Regards, Janky Jay, III -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/L9DgACgkQGK3MsUbJZn6CpwCeIx86GXjqapMW6dBaKQv41vSH BrMAn1/TbYo6s75GC82m56mnyHQhwdAq =aIU0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 5:33:16 Janketh Jay wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Erich, FreeBSD is in no way intended to be used by computer newcomers. If they're comfortable with Windows, then they should use it. If someone wants to try using FreeBSD and runs into issues, that is what the forums, mailing lists, FreeBSD Handbook, and many other resources are for. a person who operated Windows for some years does not see him/herself as a newcomer but still fails on FreeBSD. The word goes around then that FreeBSD is bad. That being said, there is no reason for FreeBSD to be more user-friendly when it comes to installing older ports. That just sounds ridiculous in itself. If someone wants to use an older port, they can download it manually or using something like portdowngrade. Of course, this becomes a serious security risk (depending on the port) but FreeBSD will still allow anyone to do this. If this simply isn't good enough, then perhaps the user should think about trying to use a different OS. You are really working hard to keep the FreeBSD installations low. It does not help FreeBSD if it is believed to be an elite operating system. Linux is by no way less complex and still many more people us it. Why? Erich ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Erich, On 06/03/2012 06:56 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 5:33:16 Janketh Jay wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Erich, FreeBSD is in no way intended to be used by computer newcomers. If they're comfortable with Windows, then they should use it. If someone wants to try using FreeBSD and runs into issues, that is what the forums, mailing lists, FreeBSD Handbook, and many other resources are for. a person who operated Windows for some years does not see him/herself as a newcomer but still fails on FreeBSD. The word goes around then that FreeBSD is bad. This is fine, actually. As mentioned, it's not intended for individuals that want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Anyone who labels FreeBSD as bad because they aren't familiar with it is an idiot, IMO. This isn't Microsoft, no matter how much people might want it to be. And, it never will be. Use this list if you have questions about ports. Is that really so difficult for people to do? If so, no big deal. The FreeBSD developers, contributors and maintainers are not here to hold people's hands. We're here to help people help themselves... That being said, there is no reason for FreeBSD to be more user-friendly when it comes to installing older ports. That just sounds ridiculous in itself. If someone wants to use an older port, they can download it manually or using something like portdowngrade. Of course, this becomes a serious security risk (depending on the port) but FreeBSD will still allow anyone to do this. If this simply isn't good enough, then perhaps the user should think about trying to use a different OS. You are really working hard to keep the FreeBSD installations low. It does not help FreeBSD if it is believed to be an elite operating system. Linux is by no way less complex and still many more people us it. Why? FreeBSD *IS* an elite operating system. By elite I don't mean what most people will think I mean. I'm simply stating that it takes a reasonable amount of time to grow comfortable with it. Along with any UNIX-like OS. If it were really simple to use, everyone would be using it, right? And Linux, as far as I'm concerned is more complex than FreeBSD. Especially it's package management. I don't like the idea of having no choices when I install an application. Of course, I could go WAY out of my way to create, build, and install an SRPM, but bugger that! It's not easy! Linux is only thought of as easy because of the graphical installer and the fact that it installs X out of the box. FreeBSD used to do that, actually. Back in the 4.X days you could choose to install XFree86 and KDE, Gnome, etc... But, that was a waste of valuable disk space in the long run. Regards, Janky Jay, III -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/MFWIACgkQGK3MsUbJZn5UUgCdHEtJ/5Rgl94CeuqAfqygdX4Z +ycAnAp5S89s3ZroHYKVPlpkYg/WQMxr =rffz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 7:54:46 Janketh Jay wrote: a person who operated Windows for some years does not see him/herself as a newcomer but still fails on FreeBSD. The word goes around then that FreeBSD is bad. This is fine, actually. As mentioned, it's not intended for individuals that want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Anyone who labels FreeBSD as bad because they aren't familiar with it is an idiot, IMO. This isn't Microsoft, no matter how much people might want it to be. And, it never will be. Use this list if you have questions about ports. Is that really so difficult for people to do? If so, no big deal. The FreeBSD developers, contributors and maintainers are not here to hold people's hands. We're here to help people help themselves... how will you ever get newcomers to FreeBSD if not via Linux? Why should people running Linux switch to FreeBSD? This is a dangerous route. Did you forget how you started with FreeBSD? You are really working hard to keep the FreeBSD installations low. It does not help FreeBSD if it is believed to be an elite operating system. Linux is by no way less complex and still many more people us it. Why? FreeBSD *IS* an elite operating system. By elite I don't mean what most people will think I mean. I'm simply stating that it takes a reasonable amount of time to grow comfortable with it. Along with any UNIX-like OS. If it were really simple to use, everyone would be using it, right? This should not be a reason to make its use more difficult for beginners. What will happen to FreeBSD when there are not beginners anymore? You cannot ask people to learn first with other operating systems and then move to FreeBSD. At least I can still claim that I learned with BSD at the university. This is even the main reason for using FreeBSD. I do not understand why people get pushed away instead of offering them a helping hand. This is at least what I do whenever possible. And Linux, as far as I'm concerned is more complex than FreeBSD. I would not use the word complex, I use the word chaotic. Especially it's package management. I don't like the idea of having no choices when I install an application. Of course, I could go WAY out This depends very much on the distribution. This even changes very fast from release to release. of my way to create, build, and install an SRPM, but bugger that! It's not easy! Linux is only thought of as easy because of the graphical installer and the fact that it installs X out of the box. FreeBSD used to do that, actually. Back in the 4.X days you could choose to install XFree86 and KDE, Gnome, etc... But, that was a waste of valuable disk space in the long run. How big is X and how big is a DVD? Why is it possible for others to pack it onto a DVD? I did not even notice that X is not part of the installation media any more as I always try to install the ports from the current ports tree. Erich ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
