Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC]

On Jun 21, 2004, at 3:25 PM, Bill Moran wrote:

You'd be much better off with some sort of NAS in a raid
config, even if it were home grown, to store the spools.
We already have a "home-grown NAS" (just a FreeBSD box with Vinum 
RAID) but
it doesn't protect me if the machine with the drives has a power 
supply or a
mobo or a CPU go south.  I don't know if a NAS is any more reliable 
than a
PC, but it's still a single point of failure.
Yes, but your scenario of losing all the mail before the backup if 
something goes poof is covered.  In other words, if a CPU or a MB goes 
poof, you do not lose your mail stores.  Your RAID disk protects you 
against that.  Your mail may not be accessible while you replace a MB 
or CPU or PS (get redundant PS), but you do not lose it, which is the 
failure you wanted to protect against.

My mail server has redundant power supplies and adaptec raid cards 
(SCSI disks) doing HW mirroring with hot spare.  I have not had a 
problem ever losing mail (since Jan 1997 when we started business).

Chad
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FreeBSD Versions 4.10 vs. 5.2.1

[freebsd]

Just a quick questions. I've been running into a few problems with 5.2.1 not
being very stable and was thinking of reverting back to 4.10. I usually run the
current versions from the ports collection, such as Gnome. I was wondering if
this will be a problem? Also, what will I loose when I go back to 4.10. Also,
is 5.2.1 faster or is 4.10 faster and more stable.

Thanks,
Bruce


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Re: read vs. mmap (or io vs. page faults)

[Mikhail Teterin]

On Monday 21 June 2004 08:15 pm, Matthew Dillon wrote:

= :The mmap interface is supposed to be more efficient -- theoreticly
= :-- because it requires one less buffer-copying, and because it
= :(together with the possible madvise()) provides the kernel with more
= :information thus enabling it to make better (at least -- no worse)
= :decisions.

= Well, I think you forgot my earlier explanation regarding buffer
= copying. = Buffer copying is a very cheap operation if it occurs
= within the L1 or L2 cache, and that is precisely what is happening
= when you read() int

This could explain, why using mmap is not faster than read, but it does
not explain, why it is slower.

I'm afraid, your vast knowledge of the internals of the kernel workings
obscure your vision. I, on the other hand, "enjoy" an almost total
ignorance of it, and can see, that mmap interface _allows_ for a more
(certainly, no _less_) efficient handling of the IO, than read. That the
kernel is not using all the information passed to it, I can only explain
by deficiencies/simplicity the implementation.

This is, sort of, self-perpetuating -- as long as mmap is slower/less
reliable, applications will be hesitant to use it, thus there will be
little insentive to improve it. :-(

= As you can see by your timing results, even on your fastest box,
= processing a file around that size is only going to incur 1-2
= seconds of real time overhead to do the extra buffer copy. 2
= seconds is a hard number to beat.

I'd rather call attention to my slower -- CPU-bound boxes. On them, the
total CPU time spent computing md5 of a file is less with mmap -- by a
noticable margin. But because the CPU is underutilized, the elapsed "wall
clock" time is higher.

As far as the cache-using statistics, having to do a cache-cache copy
doubles the cache used, stealing it from other processes/kernel tasks.

Here, again, is from my first comparision on the P2 400MHz:

stdio: 56.837u 34.115s 2:06.61 71.8%   66+193k 11253+0io 3pf+0w
mmap:  72.463u  7.534s 2:34.62 51.7%   5+186k  105+0io   22328pf+0w

91 vs. 78 seconds CPU time (15% win for mmap), but 126 vs. 154 elapsed
(22% loss)? Why is the CPU so underutilized in the mmap case? There was
nothing else running at the time. The CPU was, indeed, at about 88%
utilization, according to top. This alone seems to invalidate some of
what you are saying below about the immediate disadvantages of mmap on a
modern CPU.

Or is P2 400MHz not modern? May be, but the very modern Sparcs, on which
FreeBSD intends to run are not much faster.

= The mmap interface is not supposed to be more efficient, per say.
= Why would it be?

Puzzling question. Because the kernel is supplied with more information
-- it knows, that I only plan to _read_ from the memory (PROT_READ),
the total size of what I plan to read (mmap's len, optionally,
madvise's len), and (optionally), that I plan to read sequentially
(MADV_SEQUENTIONAL).

With that information, the kernel should be able to decide how many
pages to pre-fault in and, what and when to drop.

Mmap also needs no CPU data-cache to read. If the device is capable of
writing to memory directly (DMA?), the CPU does not need to be involved
at all, while with read the data still has to go from the DMA-filled
kernel buffer to the application buffer -- there being two copies of it
in cache instead of none for just storing or one copy for processing.

Also, in case of RAM shortage, mmap-ed pages can be just dropped, while
the too large buffer needs to be written into swap.

And mmap requires no application buffers -- win, win, and win. Is there
an inherent "lose" somewhere, I don't see? Like:

=   On a modern cpu, where an L1 cache copy is a two cycle streaming
=   operation, the several hundred (or more) cycles it takes to process
=   a page fault or even just populate the page table is equivalent to a
=   lot of copied bytes.

But each call to read also takes cycles -- in the user space (read()
function) and in the kernel (the syscall). And there are a lot of them
too...

= mmap() is not designed to streamline large demand-page reads of
= data sets much larger then main memory.

Then it was not designed to take advantage of all the possibilities of
the interface, I say.

= mmap() works best for data that is already cached in the kernel,
= and even then it still has a fairly large hurdle to overcome vs a
= streaming read(). This is a HARDWARE limitation.

Wait, HARDWARE? Which hardware issues are we talking about? You
suggested, I pre-fault in the pages and Julian explained how best to do
it. If that is, indeed, the solution, why is not kernel doing it for me,
pre-faulting in the same number of bytes, that read pre-reads?

= 15% is nothing anyone cares about except perhaps gamers. I
= certainly couldn't care less about 15%. 50%, on the otherhand,
= is something that I would care about.

Well, here we have a server dedicated t

Re: Reinstalling And /usr

[Sergey Zaharchenko]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 10:24:33PM -0500,
 Dan Nelson probably wrote:
> In fact, if you know your
> exact mbr info, you should be able to boot the install floppy, go to
> the partition editor, set it up, write, reboot, and you're done.

sysutils/gpart is

> A port of a tool which tries to guess the primary partition table of a
> PC-type hard disk in case the primary partition table in sector 0 is
> damaged, incorrect or deleted. The guessed table can be written to a
> file or device.

This should help you recover your MBR without reinstalling anything.

HTH,

-- 
DoubleF
Hanlon's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by
stupidity.


pgpi7aS2iA0nK.pgp
Description: PGP signature

fsck not working / Soft Update error / Can't boot Up

[freebsd]

Hey everyone,

I booted my system up and it gets an error and goes into single user mode I
think. It gives me a /bin/sh question. So, I press enter.

I run the command fsck
After running that command I get an error about can't clean something and to run
fsck again. I've tried many times. Gesh, I hope I dont have to format and
reinstall.

Saying something about Soft Update Problem.

Any ideas??

Thanks for you help,
Bruce
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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Jason Taylor]

Bill Moran wrote:
Hey,
I know questions like this get asked a lot, but I'm going to be really specific.
I know how to set up failover with a backup MX.  That's not what I'm looking
for.  We have a cyrus-imap server with lots of users connecting via IMAP,
while everything gets backed up, this only happens once a night.  Thus, if the
server were to go up in smoke right before the backup occurred, we'd lose
something like 23 hours worth of emails.
Does anyone have a solution to provide real-time mirroring of IMAP folders?
I don't mind manual intervention to get the thing running again, I just want
to ensure that if an email is received, it's on both machines and can't get
lost.  Is there a way to get real-time replication of cyrus (I'm no cyrus
guru, another fellow set this up)
I'm not tied to Cyrus either, if there's another solution, I'd be happy to
implement it.
I have an idea ... by using Dovecot with PostgreSQL storing the actual mail
folders, with Slony installed to provide real-time replication of the Postgres
database ... I don't know if Dovecot is able to store the actual mail folders
in Postgres yet, though ... Anyone?
I was able to dig up a few leads:
http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/~dpc22/cyrus/replication.html
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:Xu7aew9dgpsJ:asg.web.cmu.edu/archive/message.php%3Fmailbox%3Darchive.cyrus-devel%26msg%3D594+cyrus+replication&hl=en
http://www.irbs.net/internet/info-cyrus/0405/0279.html
http://www.drbd.org/
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Re: [OT] Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Lucas Holt]

Just a thought, but couldn't you write the imapd process to act more 
like a web application server in the RDBMS scenario.  You can cache 
data and limit the number of select statements executed on the actual 
data store.  Although one wouldn't have something like cookies for 
sessions, the username and other characteristics of the message could 
be used to create a hash identifying the data in the imap server.  Imap 
clients also tend to retrieve the headers only and then retrieve 
message bodies if someone "reads" the message.  For most clients, 
caching the headers might be a good idea.  Of course the timeout value 
couldn't be to large or they wouldn't get the newest messages in a 
reasonable time.

You could also seperate the cache from the imap daemon similar to how 
livejournal.com uses a seperate caching service to limit the overhead 
on the mysql servers for large mail deployments.  Its similar in the 
sense people want the most recent journal entries just like they want 
their new messages.

The other advantage to a mail server implemented as a database is that 
one could add groupwise type functionality as pluggable modules that 
tied in with the data store.  Its overkill, but could be rather neat.

Lucas Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

FoolishGames.com  (Jewel Fan Site)
JustJournal.com (Free blogging)
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Reinstalling And /usr

[epilogue]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:39:31 -0700 (PDT)
Rishi Chopra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What is the effect on the /usr partition when
> reinstalling over an installation?
> 
> I suffered a kernel panic that wiped my MBR; I'd like
> to simply reinstall with the same partition/slice
> values - will my /usr partition and the data therein
> still be accessible after reinstallation?

hello rishi,

i'm not sure about the answers to your questions, but...

i suppose you have access to the net now.  if so, you might want to look
at "man boot" and "man boot0cfg".

if you have a freebsd rescue disk lying about, i believe that you
can boot up, mount the necessary slices, and simply restore your previous
MBR.

i seem to recall having replaced an overwritten MBR in the past. 
it went something like "boot0cfg -B -b boot0 ad0"

but that was a long time ago.  please DO NOT take my word for it.  read
those man pages.

hopefully someone else on the list can confirm that this suggestion is on
the right track.


good luck,
epi


> =
> Rishi Chopra
> http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~rchopra
> 
> 
>   
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Re: Reinstalling And /usr

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Jun 21), Rishi Chopra said:
> What is the effect on the /usr partition when reinstalling over an
> installation?
> 
> I suffered a kernel panic that wiped my MBR; I'd like to simply
> reinstall with the same partition/slice values - will my /usr
> partition and the data therein still be accessible after
> reinstallation?

Sure, except anything you may have changed in
/usr/{bin,sbin,share,lib,libexec} will get overwritten.  Make sure you
elect not to newfs any of your filesytems :)  In fact, if you know your
exact mbr info, you should be able to boot the install floppy, go to
the partition editor, set it up, write, reboot, and you're done.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [OT] Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Chuck Swiger]

Bill Moran wrote:
Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[ I don't think that stuffing email into a database is a particularly good 
idea since that means keeping large blobs of non-relational data floating 
around, something that the filesystem can do a better job of handling... ]
[ ... ]
During my research of the IMAP protocol, I determined that _the_best_
way to store email for high-performance would be to put them in a
database.  This is because IMAP doesn't see email as a big blob of
text like POP does.  It sees the headers as one thing, and the
different MIME parts of the email each as a seperate thing that can
be fetched independently of the other MIME parts.  This is a pretty
good layout for a one -> many relationship in a database.  Fact is,
every current IMAP server that I'm aware of has to break emails
apart on the fly in order to server IMAP.
There's nothing wrong with applying database concepts to email, and it sounds 
like you want things which take advantage of database replication and 
transaction management and so forth in order to gain reliability, so perhaps 
you will find a DB better suited for your requirements than my comments above 
suggest.

I don't mind being wrong when the result works better for someone.  However, 
please remember that I know you are an optimist if you think I am a pessimist.

:-)
Now, I could be wrong on this count, as I never wrote the mailserver,
so my theory could ultimately be proven wrong, but I guess I just
don't agree with the statement that SQL is a bad way to store email
until someone has actually proven it.
My concern has less to do with the suitability of using a database to store 
mail as it has to do with database transactions becoming a potential 
bottleneck on the system as a whole.

I've spent a great deal of time in my day job dealing with dynamic websites, 
which mostly means ones driven by content generated by a database.  In my 
experience, you want to provide static content as efficiently as possible, and 
reserve database transactions for persisting changes to state and answering 
relational queries.

The most relevant comparison is one involving a site where people can search 
for images by keyword, which someone was also storing in the database.  The 
idea works fine under light to moderate load, but it turns out that keeping 
just the "relational" part of the image data (name, keywords, etc) and a 
filesystem reference, and generating a link using that path for Apache to 
serve directly scales much better.

---
In the case of storing email in a DB, while you can break up a mail message 
into headers plus seperate MIME components, are you really going to want to 
decompose each and every mail message in a 3GB mail volume like that? 
Although if you throw enough RAM at a DB so that the entire thing fits into 
main memory, that can produce some spectacular results, and is almost doable 
for this specific case.

Anyway, consider each time someone reads a message from the DB, you'd have to 
do two or three database transactions per message, maybe more, compared with 
read()ing or mmap()ing a single file in an IMAPD and doing strnstr()s for MIME 
boundary seperators in C.  Remember that hitting the DB involves multiprocess 
IPC and adds a lot of latency compared to what a filesystem-based IMAP daemon 
does.

--
-Chuck
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Re: Intel P4 HT Technology

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Just want to ask if FreeBSD already supports Intel P4
> HT Technology.

Actually yes it does, please note the snippet from my dmesg output


CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz (2600.44-MHz 686-class CPU)
  Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0xf29  Stepping = 9
 
Features=0xbfebfbff
  Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs
real memory  = 536805376 (511 MB)
avail memory = 511758336 (488 MB)
ACPI APIC Table: 
FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs
 cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID:  0
 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID:  1


Cheers

Tim

-- 
Tim Aslat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Spyderweb Consulting
http://www.spyderweb.com.au
Phone: +61 0401088479
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Intel P4 HT Technology

[efc_csmsu]

Greetings!

Just want to ask if FreeBSD already supports Intel P4
HT Technology.

Thank You and More Power!




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Reinstalling And /usr

[Rishi Chopra]

What is the effect on the /usr partition when
reinstalling over an installation?

I suffered a kernel panic that wiped my MBR; I'd like
to simply reinstall with the same partition/slice
values - will my /usr partition and the data therein
still be accessible after reinstallation?

=
Rishi Chopra
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~rchopra



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Re: read vs. mmap (or io vs. page faults)

[Chuck Swiger]

Matthew Dillon wrote:
Mikhail Teterin wrote:
=Both read and mmap have a read-ahead heuristic. The heuristic
=works. In fact, the mmap heuristic is so smart it can read-behind
=as well as read-ahead if it detects a backwards scan.
Evidently, read's heuristics are better. At least, for this task. I'm,
actually, surprised, they are _different_ at all.
It might be interesting to retry your tests under a Mach kernel.  BSD has 
multiple codepaths for IPC functionality that are unified under Mach.

The mmap interface is supposed to be more efficient -- theoreticly --
because it requires one less buffer-copying, and because it (together
with the possible madvise()) provides the kernel with more information
thus enabling it to make better (at least -- no worse) decisions.
I've heard people repeat the same notion, that is to say "that mmap()ing a 
file is supposed to be faster than read()ing it" [1], but the two operations 
are not quite the same thing, and there is more work being done to mmap a file 
(and thus gain random access to any byte of the file by dereferencing memory), 
 than to read and process small blocks of data at a time.

Matt's right that processing a small block that fits into L1/L2 cache (and 
probably already is resident) is very fast.  The extra copy doesn't matter as 
much as it once did on slower machines, and he's provided some good analysis 
of L1/L2 caching issues and buffer copying speeds.

However, I tend to think the issue of buffer copying speeds are likely to be 
moot when you are reading from disk and are thus I/O bound [2], rather than 
having the manner in which the file's contents are represented to the program 
being that significant.

-
[1]: Actually, while it is intuitive that trying to tell the system, "hey, I 
want all of that file read into RAM now, as quickly as you can using mmap() 
and madvise()", what happens with systems which use demand-paging VM (like 
FreeBSD, Linux, and most others) is far more lazy:

In reality, your process gets nothing but a promise from mmap() that if you 
access the right chunk of memory, your program will unblock once that data has 
been read and faulted into the local address space.  That level of urgency 
doesn't seem to correspond to what you asked for :-), although it still works 
pretty well in practice.

[2]: We're talking about maybe 20 to 60 or so MB/s for disk, versus 10x to 
100x that for RAM to RAM copying, much less the L2 copying speeds Matt 
mentions below:

Well, I think you forgot my earlier explanation regarding buffer copying.
Buffer copying is a very cheap operation if it occurs within the L1 or
L2 cache, and that is precisely what is happening when you read() into
a fixed buffer in a loop in a C program... your buffer is fixed in
memory and is almost guarenteed to be in the L1/L2 cache, which means
that the extra copy operation is very fast on a modern processor.  It's
something like 12-16 GBytes/sec to the L1 cache on an Athlon 64, for
example, and 3 GBytes/sec uncached to main memory.
This has been an interesting discussion, BTW, thanks.
--
-Chuck
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Re: Printing setup

[Len Zettel]

Warren Block wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004, Len Zettel wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, when I try
> > lptest 20 5 | lpr -PLaserjet
> >
> > I get the following message:
> > lpd[297]:Laserjet: cannot execv(/usr/local/libexec/if-simple):
> > no such file or directory
> >
> > /usr/local/libexec/if-simple is there:
> > Moving it to /usr/local (with corresponding modification of
> > /etc/printcap) doesn't seem to help.
> 
> Try the simple things first:
> 
> chmod +x /usr/local/libexec/if-simple
> 
> -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA
Did that earlier - didn't help.
HOWEVER:
I am set up with swappable hard drives (greatest thing since sliced
bread ;))
So I booted 5.1 with the 4.10 drive as slave, then copied the
5.1 files to the 4.10 drive.
Now (I wish I knew why) everything works!
I suspect either contamination by non-printing characters
or some subtlety involving space and tab characters.
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Re: FreeBSD weakness.

[Tom McLaughlin]

On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 02:59, Lloyd Hayes wrote:
> >Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft.
> >BSD is for people who love Unix.
> 
> Under these conditions, I guess that I need to go for Linux...
> 

I'f you're going to go with Linux then I'd recommend Mandrake.  Many
people would also recommend Suse as well but I never personally used
that so I can't vouch for it but you many want to give that a whirl. 
I'd stay away from Fedora though, I don't think it's meant for anyone
besides those willing to work on it when they find problems.

Mandrake has the Community Download edition available about a month I
think before the pay CD release.  It's a way for all the early adopters
to leach, find bugs, and kvetch before the people paying Mandrakesoft's
bills get their version. :)  Wait two weeks or so after the release for
the errata to flow in then install and run their update utility. 
Mandrake served me well for a number of years until I felt I needed
something different which is why I am here.  It's still the distribution
I'd recommend to anyone who doesn't feel like bothering with all the
internals.

Tom

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Compiling Apache (port) apache13-mod_ssl and apache13-mod_perl ... ?

[Forrest Aldrich]

This has to be a FAQ, but I've not found it yet.
When compiling the port version of Apache, what trick can be used to get 
both mod_ssl and mod_perl compiled into the server.

Regarding mod_php4 .. the port enables a php4_options file, but I don't 
see provisions anywhere (except for manually editing the Makefile) for 
any of the --enable-x configure options.

Pointers appreciated.
Thanks
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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Bill Moran]

Lucas Holt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Keep in mind that storing mail in a RDBMS as a backup requires an 
> efficient method to restore mail into your mail server's format.

I'm looking at RDBMS _being_ the native format.  Dovecot has this
on the TODO list, but it's low priority for that project.

If we use SQL as the native storage, then we duplicate the config
on both machines (i.e. the Postfix config and the IMAP server
config) and in the case of hardware failure, we just switch IP
addresses.  That can even be automated to happen without manual
intervention!

> Would it be possible to have a second mail server internal to your 
> network that would receive copies of the mail from the primary mail 
> server to store them as a backup?  This would be closer to real time 
> and for the most part would beat the 30 minute interval to do an rsync. 
>   In addition, if the system proved reliable you could rsync the 
> secondary at night and not have the primary down at all.

Doesn't really accomplish the goal.  The point is to have the IMAP
folders in two places at all times.  That way, when a user deletes
an email, its deleted in both places, when Postfix delivers an email,
it's delivered to both places, if a user moves an email from one
folder to another ... you get the idea.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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[OT] Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Bill Moran]

Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bill Moran wrote:
> > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [ ... ]
> >> The latter uses one-message-per-file, and ought to work *much* better both in 
> >> terms of performance and stability, and in terms of playing nice with the way 
> >> rsync wants to back things up.
> > 
> > Doesn't really matter.  Fact is, the mail directories are something on the order
> > of 3G.  No matter how efficiently I store them, rsync is not going to be able
> > to back them up fast enough to hit the level of redundancy I'm shooting for.
> 
> You may well be right, as you aren't really talking about performing backups, 
> you're talking about creating a fully redundant storage which is kept 
> up-to-date in realtime.
> 
> > Although Maildirs might work a little better, since I wouldn't have to stop
> > the IMAP server during backup.
> 
> That, and the granularity of one-message-per-file fits perfectly with rsync's 
> file-driven model.

I don't know about that.

Last I checked, many files resulted in rsync taking a lot of time, and a lot
of memory to build a file list.  I can't say whether the end result is more
efficient or not, as I've never tested it, but rsync does intelligently
move portions of files, instead of the whole file, when changes occur.

> > It takes about 30 minutes to rsync the system to the backup server right now.
> > That's perfectly acceptable for nightly backup purposes.  This is a 1.5Ghz
> > with 256M RAM and 80G ATA 100 HDDs.  If the system runs rysnc continuously
> > 24/7, I still have 30mins old data.
> 
> Oh, yes.  Just don't forget that if you do eliminate this time gap, you still 
> ought to have another system actually taking backups.  Any change the system 
> encounters will be replicated to the redundant mail storage system in real 
> time, including bad changes.

Hehe ... I've been trying to explain that to some of my less intelligent
clients for a while now ... "Yes, when you do something wrong, it backs
that up as well ..."

Actually had a client ask me once why the backup didn't know the
difference between something it should be backing up, and something
that shouldn't be backed up.  I told him if I knew how to do that, I'd
be a lot richer!

> >>[ I don't think that stuffing email into a database is a particularly good 
> >>idea since that means keeping large blobs of non-relational data floating 
> >>around, something that the filesystem can do a better job of handling... ]
> > 
> > It's a good idea if I want real-time redundancy.  I see where you're coming
> > from, and it's true that a RDBMS isn't the best way to store emails.  But,
> > when you look at the features available, it's the best way for this
> > circumstance.  With something like Slony, I'd have real-time redundancy
> > with (I'm expecting) only a minor performance drop.  Although I can't be
> > sure until I can put something together to test.  Reliability is much more
> > important than performance in this case.  Who cares if their email takes
> > and extra 60 seconds to deliver, as long as it doesn't get lost!  If the
> > email arrives fast, it's useless if the server fails and the email is
> > lost because the SMTP server told the delivering server that it had
> > arrived and then crashed before it could be backed up.
> 
> I suspect that the relatively heavy weight of database transactions compared 
> with filesystem access is going to slow things down a fair amount, too, 
> particularly when running against a replicated DB.  But reliability over 
> performance is a fine choice to make.  :-)
> 
> Using RAID improves fault-tolerance, but you still end up with a 
> single-point-of-failure at the system level; using database replication gives 
> you higher availability, which seems to be what you mean when you talk about 
> "reliability".  Perhaps SAN or NAS concepts might be worth considering, as you 
> can set up a fully-redundant fibre channel configuration where the storage is 
> shared between two or more systems, thus with no single-point-of-failure.

Problem there is cost ... that hardware is a bit pricey, compared to PC
hardware, anyway.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Lucas Holt]

Keep in mind that storing mail in a RDBMS as a backup requires an 
efficient method to restore mail into your mail server's format.

Would it be possible to have a second mail server internal to your 
network that would receive copies of the mail from the primary mail 
server to store them as a backup?  This would be closer to real time 
and for the most part would beat the 30 minute interval to do an rsync. 
 In addition, if the system proved reliable you could rsync the 
secondary at night and not have the primary down at all.

Lucas Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

FoolishGames.com  (Jewel Fan Site)
JustJournal.com (Free blogging)
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Re: Printing setup

[Warren Block]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004, Len Zettel wrote:
Unfortunately, when I try
lptest 20 5 | lpr -PLaserjet
I get the following message:
lpd[297]:Laserjet: cannot execv(/usr/local/libexec/if-simple):
no such file or directory
/usr/local/libexec/if-simple is there:
Moving it to /usr/local (with corresponding modification of
/etc/printcap) doesn't seem to help.
Try the simple things first:
chmod +x /usr/local/libexec/if-simple
-Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA
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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Chuck Swiger]

Bill Moran wrote:
Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[ ... ]
The latter uses one-message-per-file, and ought to work *much* better both in 
terms of performance and stability, and in terms of playing nice with the way 
rsync wants to back things up.
Doesn't really matter.  Fact is, the mail directories are something on the order
of 3G.  No matter how efficiently I store them, rsync is not going to be able
to back them up fast enough to hit the level of redundancy I'm shooting for.
You may well be right, as you aren't really talking about performing backups, 
you're talking about creating a fully redundant storage which is kept 
up-to-date in realtime.

Although Maildirs might work a little better, since I wouldn't have to stop
the IMAP server during backup.
That, and the granularity of one-message-per-file fits perfectly with rsync's 
file-driven model.

It takes about 30 minutes to rsync the system to the backup server right now.
That's perfectly acceptable for nightly backup purposes.  This is a 1.5Ghz
with 256M RAM and 80G ATA 100 HDDs.  If the system runs rysnc continuously
24/7, I still have 30mins old data.
Oh, yes.  Just don't forget that if you do eliminate this time gap, you still 
ought to have another system actually taking backups.  Any change the system 
encounters will be replicated to the redundant mail storage system in real 
time, including bad changes.

[ I don't think that stuffing email into a database is a particularly good 
idea since that means keeping large blobs of non-relational data floating 
around, something that the filesystem can do a better job of handling... ]
It's a good idea if I want real-time redundancy.  I see where you're coming
from, and it's true that a RDBMS isn't the best way to store emails.  But,
when you look at the features available, it's the best way for this
circumstance.  With something like Slony, I'd have real-time redundancy
with (I'm expecting) only a minor performance drop.  Although I can't be
sure until I can put something together to test.  Reliability is much more
important than performance in this case.  Who cares if their email takes
and extra 60 seconds to deliver, as long as it doesn't get lost!  If the
email arrives fast, it's useless if the server fails and the email is
lost because the SMTP server told the delivering server that it had
arrived and then crashed before it could be backed up.
I suspect that the relatively heavy weight of database transactions compared 
with filesystem access is going to slow things down a fair amount, too, 
particularly when running against a replicated DB.  But reliability over 
performance is a fine choice to make.  :-)

Using RAID improves fault-tolerance, but you still end up with a 
single-point-of-failure at the system level; using database replication gives 
you higher availability, which seems to be what you mean when you talk about 
"reliability".  Perhaps SAN or NAS concepts might be worth considering, as you 
can set up a fully-redundant fibre channel configuration where the storage is 
shared between two or more systems, thus with no single-point-of-failure.

--
-Chuck
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Anyone know if this NIC is supported (or even what it is?) Chaintech 7VIF4

[Bill Moran]

I guess the subject says it all, here's all the details I can find:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-152-030&depa=0


-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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[OT] Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Bill Moran]

Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> [ I don't think that stuffing email into a database is a particularly good 
> idea since that means keeping large blobs of non-relational data floating 
> around, something that the filesystem can do a better job of handling... ]

Actually ... you got me thinking.

I did some research about a year ago because I was going to write a mail
server.  It was mainly going to be an education project so I could learn
some things.  I'd forgotten about this until now.

During my research of the IMAP protocol, I determined that _the_best_
way to store email for high-performance would be to put them in a
database.  This is because IMAP doesn't see email as a big blob of
text like POP does.  It sees the headers as one thing, and the
different MIME parts of the email each as a seperate thing that can
be fetched independently of the other MIME parts.  This is a pretty
good layout for a one -> many relationship in a database.  Fact is,
every current IMAP server that I'm aware of has to break emails
apart on the fly in order to server IMAP.

Now, I could be wrong on this count, as I never wrote the mailserver,
so my theory could ultimately be proven wrong, but I guess I just
don't agree with the statement that SQL is a bad way to store email
until someone has actually proven it.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Bill Moran]

Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bill Moran wrote:
> > It's the mailboxes themselves that are difficult to get.  Best we've got right
> > now is backing up the Cyrus mail folders using rsync ... but this is very time-
> > consuming, and (thus) only done once a day.  In order for it to be done right,
> > Cyrus has to be shut down while it's backing up.
> 
> Are you using mbox files rather than maildir-style mailboxes?

No, I'm using Cyrus' native storage method.  I don't quite understand the
details of how it lays things out, but it seems to create a number of
files for each folder, although not quite 1 per message.

> The latter uses one-message-per-file, and ought to work *much* better both in 
> terms of performance and stability, and in terms of playing nice with the way 
> rsync wants to back things up.

Doesn't really matter.  Fact is, the mail directories are something on the order
of 3G.  No matter how efficiently I store them, rsync is not going to be able
to back them up fast enough to hit the level of redundancy I'm shooting for.
Although Maildirs might work a little better, since I wouldn't have to stop
the IMAP server during backup.

It takes about 30 minutes to rsync the system to the backup server right now.
That's perfectly acceptable for nightly backup purposes.  This is a 1.5Ghz
with 256M RAM and 80G ATA 100 HDDs.  If the system runs rysnc continuously
24/7, I still have 30mins old data.

> [ I don't think that stuffing email into a database is a particularly good 
> idea since that means keeping large blobs of non-relational data floating 
> around, something that the filesystem can do a better job of handling... ]

It's a good idea if I want real-time redundancy.  I see where you're coming
from, and it's true that a RDBMS isn't the best way to store emails.  But,
when you look at the features available, it's the best way for this
circumstance.  With something like Slony, I'd have real-time redundancy
with (I'm expecting) only a minor performance drop.  Although I can't be
sure until I can put something together to test.  Reliability is much more
important than performance in this case.  Who cares if their email takes
and extra 60 seconds to deliver, as long as it doesn't get lost!  If the
email arrives fast, it's useless if the server fails and the email is
lost because the SMTP server told the delivering server that it had
arrived and then crashed before it could be backed up.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: Ports make search broken

[Jonathan Chen]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2004 at 06:32:01AM +1000, Jason Oakley wrote:
> $ cd /usr/ports
>  $ make search name=centericq
> Makefile:67: *** missing separator.  Stop.

You should be using the system make in /usr/bin/make and not GNU make.
-- 
Jonathan Chen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--
  Opportunities are seldom labeled
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Re: read vs. mmap (or io vs. page faults)

[Matthew Dillon]

:The mmap interface is supposed to be more efficient -- theoreticly --
:because it requires one less buffer-copying, and because it (together
:with the possible madvise()) provides the kernel with more information
:thus enabling it to make better (at least -- no worse) decisions.

Well, I think you forgot my earlier explanation regarding buffer copying.
Buffer copying is a very cheap operation if it occurs within the L1 or
L2 cache, and that is precisely what is happening when you read() into
a fixed buffer in a loop in a C program... your buffer is fixed in
memory and is almost guarenteed to be in the L1/L2 cache, which means
that the extra copy operation is very fast on a modern processor.  It's
something like 12-16 GBytes/sec to the L1 cache on an Athlon 64, for
example, and 3 GBytes/sec uncached to main memory.

Consider the cpu time cost, then, of the local copy on a 2GB file...
the cpu time cost on an AMD64 is about 2/12 of one second.  This is
the number mmap would have to beat. 

As you can see by your timing results, even on your fastest box,
processing a file around that size is only going to incur 1-2 seconds
of real time overhead to do the extra buffer copy.  2 seconds is a hard
number to beat.

This is something you can calculate yourself.  Time a dd from /dev/zero
to /dev/null.

crater# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=32k count=8192
268435456 bytes transferred in 0.244561 secs (1097620804 bytes/sec)

amd64# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=32k count=8192
268435456 bytes transferred in 0.066994 secs (4006846790 bytes/sec)

amd64# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=16m count=32
536870912 bytes transferred in 0.431774 secs (1243407512 bytes/sec)

Try it for different buffer sizes (16K through 16MB) and you will get
a feel for how the L1 and L2 caches effect copying bandwidth.  These
numbers are reasonably close to the raw memory bandwidth available to
the cpu (and will be different depending on whether the buffer fits in
the L1 or L2 caches, or doesn't fit at all).

The mmap interface is not supposed to be more efficient, per say.  Why
would it be?  There are overheads involved with mapping the page table
entries and taking faults to map more.  Even if you pre-mapped everything,
there are still overheads involved in populating the page table and
performing invlpg operations on the TLB to reload the entry, and for
large data sets there is overhead involved with removing page table
entries and invalidating the pte.  On a modern cpu, where an L1 cache 
copy is a two cycle streaming operation, the several hundred (or more)
cycles it takes to process a page fault or even just populate the
page table is equivalent to a lot of copied bytes.

This immediately puts mmap() at a disadvantage on a modern cpu, but of
course it also depends on what the data processing loop itself is
doing.  If the data processing loop is sensitive to the L1 cache then
processing larger chunks of data is going to be make it more efficient,
and mmap() can certainly provide that where read() might require buffers
too large to fit comfortably in the L1/L2 cache.  On the otherhand, if
the processing loop is relatively insensitive to the L1 cache (i.e. its
small), then you can afford to process the data in smaller chunks, like
16K, without any significant penalty.

mmap() is not designed to streamline large demand-page reads of data
sets much larger then main memory.  mmap() works best for data that
is already cached in the kernel, and even then it still has a fairly
large hurdle to overcome vs a streaming read().  This is a HARDWARE
limitation.  Drastic action would have to be taken in software to get
rid of this overhead (we'd have to use 4MB page table entries, which
come with their own problems).

The overhead required to manage a large mmap'd data set can skyrocket.
FreeBSD (and DragonFly) have heuristics that attempt to detect
sequential operations like this with mmap'd data and to depress the
page priority behind the read (so: read-ahead and depress-behind), and
this works, but it only mitigates the additional overhead some, it 
doesn't get rid of it.

For linear processing of large data sets you almost universally want
to use a read() loop.  There's no good reason to use mmap().

:=: read: 10.619u 23.814s 1:17.67 44.3%   62+274k 11255+0io 0pf+0w
:=
:Well, now we are venturing into the domain of humans' subjective
:perception... I'd say, 12% is plenty, actually. This is what some people
:achieve by rewriting stuff in assembler -- and are proud, when it works
::-)

Nobody is going to stare at their screen for one minute and 17 seconds
and really care that something might take one minute and 27 seconds instead
of one minute and 17 seconds.  That's

Re: Printing setup

[Richard Stevenson]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004, Len Zettel wrote:
I get the following message:
lpd[297]:Laserjet: cannot execv(/usr/local/libexec/if-simple):
no such file or directory
/usr/local/libexec/if-simple is there:
Moving it to /usr/local (with corresponding modification of
/etc/printcap) doesn't seem to help.
My guess is that if-simple is a script, and the first line gives the wrong 
path to the interpreter (#!/usr/bin/blah instead of #!/usr/local/bin/blah, 
or vice versa).  Check that the correct interpreter is installed an in 
that location; if it's not, either change the script or symlink it ;)

HTH.
Cheers
Richard
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Printing setup

[Len Zettel]

I am trying to set up FreeBSD 4.10
When it comes to printing I am fairly
slavishly following the Handbook.
Unfortunately, when I try
lptest 20 5 | lpr -PLaserjet
I get the following message:
lpd[297]:Laserjet: cannot execv(/usr/local/libexec/if-simple):
no such file or directory
/usr/local/libexec/if-simple is there:
Moving it to /usr/local (with corresponding modification of
/etc/printcap) doesn't seem to help.
I have not had this problem with 5.1
If I remove the if= entry from /etc/printcap I get printing but
(of course) in a totally unsatisfactory format.
So now what?  Drop back 15 yards and punt?
Thanks in advance
  -LenZ-
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SmartPass VPN Software.

[Minnesota Slinky]

Hey all,

Is there anyone that's tried installing/porting the VPN software
SmartPass?  I need it to log into a VPN, and they simply told me, 'yeah,
it works on unix.'  Problem is, it only supports Solaris and RedHat.
When I try to run the binary, I get the following error:

%smartpass
ELF binary type "0" not known.
Abort
%

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Eric F Crist
President
AdTech Integrated Systems, Inc
(612) 998-3588


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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Chuck Swiger]

Bill Moran wrote:
It's the mailboxes themselves that are difficult to get.  Best we've got right
now is backing up the Cyrus mail folders using rsync ... but this is very time-
consuming, and (thus) only done once a day.  In order for it to be done right,
Cyrus has to be shut down while it's backing up.
Are you using mbox files rather than maildir-style mailboxes?
The latter uses one-message-per-file, and ought to work *much* better both in 
terms of performance and stability, and in terms of playing nice with the way 
rsync wants to back things up.

[ I don't think that stuffing email into a database is a particularly good 
idea since that means keeping large blobs of non-relational data floating 
around, something that the filesystem can do a better job of handling... ]

--
-Chuck
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Re: read vs. mmap (or io vs. page faults)

[Matthew Dillon]

:
:ask for 8k, but the system will fetch the next 64k of data.  Problem is
:the system does nothing until you read the next 8k past the 64k
:alreqady read in, then it jumps up and grabs the next 64k.  You're
:still waiting on I/O every 8th read.  Ideally it would do an async
:..
:-- 
:   Dan Nelson
:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


No, this isn't true.  The system places a marker 8K or 16K before the
last read block and initiates the next read-ahead before you exhaust the
first one.

For mapped data the system intentionally does not map the page table entry
for a page or two before the end of the read ahead in order to force a
page fault so it can initiate the next read ahead.

For read data the system marks a buffer near the end of the read ahead
so when read encounters it the system knows to queue then next read-ahead.

Also, for that matter, remember that the hard drives themselves generally
cache whole tracks and do their own read-ahead.  This is why dd'ing a 
large file usually results in the maximum transfer rate the hard drive
can do.

-Matt
Matthew Dillon 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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atapi/cam driver

[Gerard Samuel]

Im trying to set it up, and Im not getting any "real" output from camcontrol 
devlist.  Im following instructions from
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/creating-cds.html#ATAPICAM.
dmesg only shows the devices as atapi devices, and not scsi.
Does anyone have an idea where Im going wrong.
Thanks

-- camcontrol devlist --
gladiator# camcontrol devlist -v
scbus-1 on xpt0 bus 0:
<  >   at scbus-1 target -1 lun -1 (xpt0)
--

-- OS version --
gladiator# uname -a
FreeBSD gladiator.trini0.org 5.2.1-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE-p6 #0: Fri 
May  7 22:43:47 EDT 2004 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GLADIATOR  i386
--

-- dmesg snip --
ad0: 19473MB  [39566/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA100
acd0: CDROM  at ata1-master PIO4
acd1: CDRW  at ata1-slave PIO4
--

-- fstab snip --
/dev/cd0/cdrom  cd9660  ro,noauto   0   0
/dev/cd1/cdrom1 cd9660  ro,noauto   0   0
--

-- kernel --
machine i386
cpu I686_CPU
ident   GLADIATOR
maxusers0

#To statically compile in device wiring instead of /boot/device.hints
#hints  "GENERIC.hints" #Default places to look for devices.

#makeoptionsDEBUG=-g#Build kernel with gdb(1) debug 
symbols

options SCHED_4BSD  #4BSD scheduler
options INET#InterNETworking
options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem
options SOFTUPDATES #Enable FFS soft updates support
options UFS_ACL #Support for access control lists
options UFS_DIRHASH #Improve performance on big 
directories
options NFSCLIENT   #Network Filesystem Client
options CD9660  #ISO 9660 Filesystem
options PROCFS  #Process filesystem (requires 
PSEUDOFS)
options PSEUDOFS#Pseudo-filesystem framework
options COMPAT_43   #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!]
options COMPAT_FREEBSD4 #Compatible with FreeBSD4
options SYSVSHM #SYSV-style shared memory
options SYSVMSG #SYSV-style message queues
options SYSVSEM #SYSV-style semaphores
options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING #Posix P1003_1B real-time 
extensions

device  isa
device  pci

# Floppy drives
device  fdc

# ATA and ATAPI devices
device  ata
device  atadisk # ATA disk drives
device  atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives
options ATA_STATIC_ID   #Static device numbering

# atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse
device  atkbdc  # AT keyboard controller
device  atkbd   # AT keyboard
device  psm # PS/2 mouse

device  vga # VGA video card driver

# syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console
device  sc

device  agp # support several AGP chipsets

# Floating point support - do not disable.
device  npx

# Power management support (see NOTES for more options)
#device apm
# Add suspend/resume support for the i8254.
device  pmtimer

# PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code.
# NOTE: Be sure to keep the 'device miibus' line in order to use these NICs!
device  miibus  # MII bus support
device  fxp # Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558)

# Pseudo devices - the number indicates how many units to allocate.
device  random  # Entropy device
device  loop# Network loopback
device  ether   # Ethernet support
device  pty # Pseudo-ttys (telnet etc)

# USB support
device  uhci# UHCI PCI->USB interface
device  usb # USB Bus (required)
device  ugen# Generic
device umass# Disks/Mass storage - Requires scbus and da

# Yes they are for SCSI but umass needs them
device  scbus   # SCSI bus (required)
device  da  # Direct Access (disks)

# To access IDE devices via scsi system
device atapicam
device cd
device pass

# Audio
device  pcm

# The `bpf' device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter.
# Be aware of the administrative consequences of enabling this!
device  bpf # Berkeley packet filter
--
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RE: Spamassassin

[Eric Crist]

It is possible the default install on RedHat has a lower 'score'
necessary for it to be flagged as spam.  You can set this in the
configuration file.

Eric F Crist
President
AdTech Integrated Systems, Inc
(612) 998-3588



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Chris Sechiatano
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 12:04 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Spamassassin
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I just converted my RedHat box to BSD 5.2.1 and installed
> Spamassassin with Sendmail and Procmail.  This is the same
> configuration I had on the RedHat machine, but Spamassassin
> seems to not catch as much spam as it did before. I get so
> much more junk in my inbox and they only get one or two hits
> with Spamassassin.
>
> Anybody have any ideas on what may be happening?
>
> --
> Chris Sechiatano
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.chris-s.com
>
> PGP Key 0x0021EFA0
>
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RE: problem installing 4.10, boot hangs after PLIP0

[Bob Johnson]

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:58:25 -0700
From: "White, Sean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: problem installing 4.10, boot hangs after PLIP0
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Help! (please...)

I am having a problem getting FreeBSD 4.10 installed on my machine.
Strangely, I have two almost identical boxes, and the problem exhibits
itself on one but not the other. Any help as to why this is happening
would be greatly appreciated. I have googled, searched list archives and
poured over the handbook multiple times, and the only error report I can
find that comes close (link below) does not seem to have been
resolved...
 
Synopsis:
 
[...]
So can anyone tell me what might be going on here, or what I might try
next to troubleshoot it? Any help or pointers would be appreciated. If
other logs or hardware info is required just ask, I will be glad to
provide. This hardware is all relatively old (I mean old as in
well-supported, not old as in crusty), so I wouldnt think there should
be issues with unsupported, bleeding-edge craziness. And the fact that
two nearly identical hardware configs are sporting different behavior
would seem to indicate an actual hardware failure on the part of the one
that doesnt work, but as I said, this box doesnt seem to have any
problems booting other OS's, so I am confused.
>
Identical hardware isn't necessarily identical firmware.  You might try 
checking to see if a BIOS update is available.  It sounds like a good 
candidate for addressing your symptoms.

Other thoughts in no particular order, and not necessarily good ones:
I don't know how well 4.10 deals with such things, but perhaps the BIOS 
is reporting a different disk geometry than what FreeBSD thinks it is 
seeing, and confusing things.  FBSD should complain about this 
reasonably gracefully, but it's been a while since I've run in to that 
problem, so I'm not going to promise that it will.

You probably need the BIOS to be using LBA mode to address the disk, 
regardless of what it thinks is a good idea.

If all else fails, I would physically remove the 3Com card and try 
again.  No particular reason why, but their cards have often been a 
source of pain to me.  Physically removing (or turning off in the BIOS 
if not removable) everything not needed for a basic install (everything 
except video, hard drive, and CD-ROM) would be a good test.

Make a pair of install floppies, disable (physically unplug) the CD, and 
put the network card or a modem back in.  Try to do a floppy/FTP install 
instead of a CD-ROM install.  Suspect master/slave issues if that works.

FreeBSD used to have problems with IDE master/slave configs that other 
things could handle (I think it was slaves that have no masters).  I 
thought that was fixed, but you might want to make sure you don't have a 
slave without a master on any of your ATA/IDE channels.  You might also 
try swapping which channel your CD-ROM and HD are on if they are on 
different channels, or swapping their master-slave relationship if they 
are on the same channel.


 
I will disclaim in advance that, as with almost all computer problems,
the issue is probably me doing something stupid or forgetting something.
 
Please reply via the list and/or my email address below.
 
Thanks!
Sean White
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
I'm sure there are better ideas I'm not thinking of, but these might 
give you some clues to bring back to the list.

I recommend only posting to one list at a time (usually this one).  I 
have no clue whether someone on the other list answered you or not, and 
it is not the appropriate forum for this question anyway (see 
description at http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-config).

- Bob

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Toshiba Laptop Touch Mouse Problem

[Douglas Korinke]

The touch mouse is an Alps Pointing Device with a middle scroll wheel and I 
have gotten the mouse to work before on FreeBSD4.9

I'm still running fbsd4.9 but the mouse is not functional in xwindows, any 
ideas what might be going on?

ICQ : 26096369
AIM : itss0lidstate

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Re: read vs. mmap (or io vs. page faults)

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Jun 21), Mikhail Teterin said:
> > Both read and mmap have a read-ahead heuristic. The heuristic
> > works. In fact, the mmap heuristic is so smart it can read-behind
> > as well as read-ahead if it detects a backwards scan.
> 
> Evidently, read's heuristics are better. At least, for this task.
> I'm, actually, surprised, they are _different_ at all.
[...] 
> That other OSes have similar shortcomings simply gives us some
> breathing room from an advocacy point of view. I hope, my rhetoric
> will burn an itch in someone capable of addressing it technically :-)
> 
> > The heuristic does not try to read megabytes and megabytes ahead,
> > however...
> 
> Neither does the read-handling.

I think part of the problem is that it's just clustering reads instead
of making sure the next N blocks of data are prefetched.  So you may
ask for 8k, but the system will fetch the next 64k of data.  Problem is
the system does nothing until you read the next 8k past the 64k
alreqady read in, then it jumps up and grabs the next 64k.  You're
still waiting on I/O every 8th read.  Ideally it would do an async
fetch of a 8k block (64k ahead of the current read) every time you read
a block.  It should be a lot easier for read to do this, since the
kernel is getting a steady stream of syscalls.  Once a 64k chunk of
mmapped address space is pulled in, the system isn't notified until the
next page fault.  (or am I misunderstanding how readahead is
implemented on mmapped data?)
 
-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [OT] Re: Overly brief answers (was Re: Terminal Server)

[Bill Moran]

Hey Nico,

Nico Meijer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Bill!
> 
> I am joyfully amazed at how much one simple "yes" can stir up, other 
> than at weddings. ;-)

You'll have such "stirrings" when you deal with people who actually care
about what they do.  Folks that don't really care generally don't get
stirred up.  I take the fact that the FreeBSD community occasionally gets
pretty stirred up as a good sign that the community really cares about
what it does.

> First off: I didn't mean to put OP or anyone else off. Yes, I must 
> admit, there is a 'smart @$$' element in my answer, which is totally my bad.

Cool ... Although it's only my opinion ... I don't particularly think that
short answers are always bad, I was just worried that there _appeared_ to be
a trend emerging with short, underinformative answers.

> Please take note that I am a nice guy, usually overly helpful 
> (admittedly, not per se on this list, but I have a photograph to 
> actually prove my point ;-) ) and light hearted. You cannot actually see 
> my emails are written with a smile on my face. My bad, again.

I don't doubt it.

> > This is not an answer to the question.
> 
> Yes and no. Yes, remote access. Yes, multiple sessions. No, the hidden 
> questions I did not answer. With a purpose, I must add.

I got that impression, and I prefer to supply a reference to Grog's paper
on asking questions (or even ESR's) or directly point out the shortcomings
of the question, than to assume that the OP will "get the hint".  Again,
my opinion, but I've found that, far too often, I didn't present the
hint well enough to be gotten ...

> > It does not answer the question and does
> > not contribute to the OPs knowledge of FreeBSD, nor does it contribute to the
> > list archives.
> 
> In a 'smart @$$' way, I was actually trying to get OP to *think* about 
> his question and hopefully restate it. Taken as it is (i.e. literally), 
> it was a wrong question with a right answer.
> 
> OP might have asked additionally: "If so, where could I begin to read 
> and learn for myself?" Basically, "Will you help me to help myself?" To 
> me, that is on the right track. "Will you hold my hand and do it for 
> me?" is off limits, if you ask me, but OP was not going for this, obviously.

I agree with this.  If you care to search the list archives (please don't)
you'll find that I've occasionally been guilty of going the other way with
this (i.e. I'll feed an obvious Troll for several posts in the hopes that
he'll come around) so we're all imperfect.

> > It's also a violation of the rule against "me too" answers as
> > laid out in "How to Get the Best Results from FreeBSD-Questions".
> 
> I'll be sure to reread it.

I try to reread it every few months, so I don't forget the points it
makes.

> > It doesn't
> > even serve to educate the OP on how to ask better questins.
> 
> You're probably right, although my intentions were just that.

I thought they might be.

> > You could say that "technically, he didn't ask" but it
> > boils down to just being rude.
> 
> I disagree. :-)
> 
> 
> Asking a question on a high traffic mailing list without showing you've 
> done some basic homework is rude. Implying/hiding questions instead of 
> asking them directly is rude. (Hey, I was implying aswell!)
> 

The problem is that most folks don't really understand the nature of this
mailing list the first time they post.  There are some folks that lurk
for quite a while before posting for the first time, but it seems to me
that most folks post before they fully understand the nature of the
mailing list.

> ESR has a well written piece on this very matter.

Yup.  I'm familiar with both ESR's and Grog's writings on this, and I
refer people to them both.

> > I don't think answers like this reflect well on FreeBSD or the FreeBSD
> > community.  Short answers like "see 'man foo'" are appropriate, as they impart
> > some knowledge and tell the OP that his question is answered in the indicated
> > documentation, but this doesn't follow that template.
> 
> What greater good is there than to help someone help themselves? I guess 
> none.

I agree.

> So yes, I had done better had I pointed at some docs. I apologize for 
> not doing that.

Thank you.  I'm appreciate your contributions to the list, as well as your
efforts to improve.  I'm sure everyone does.  The FreeBSD community needs
more folks like you!

> Bye... Nico 'my bad' Meijer

Hell, we all make mistakes.  If that short post is the worse mistake
you made today, then you're doing a whole lot better than me!

> P.S. Although I *do* feel a greeting at the top of a message makes a 
> world of difference. :-) Did you notice OP greeted? Did you notice I 
> did? Can you see me smiling right now? :-)

I'll try to remember to do that.  Might take me a little while to turn
it into a habit.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: read vs. mmap (or io vs. page faults)

[Mikhail Teterin]

=Both read and mmap have a read-ahead heuristic. The heuristic
=works. In fact, the mmap heuristic is so smart it can read-behind
=as well as read-ahead if it detects a backwards scan.

Evidently, read's heuristics are better. At least, for this task. I'm,
actually, surprised, they are _different_ at all.

The mmap interface is supposed to be more efficient -- theoreticly --
because it requires one less buffer-copying, and because it (together
with the possible madvise()) provides the kernel with more information
thus enabling it to make better (at least -- no worse) decisions.

That these theoretical advantages -- small or not -- are eaten by,
what seems like, practical implementation deficiencies to the point,
that using mmap is not only not faster, but frequently slower --
wallclock-wise -- is, in itself, a serious shortcoming, that stands
between an OS and perfection.

That other OSes have similar shortcomings simply gives us some breathing
room from an advocacy point of view. I hope, my rhetoric will burn an
itch in someone capable of addressing it technically :-)

=The heuristic does not try to read megabytes and megabytes ahead,
=however...

Neither does the read-handling.

=that might speed up this particular application a little, but it
=would destroy performance for many other types of applications,
=especially in a loaded environment.

I'm not asking mmap (page fault handling) to cache any more aggressively,
than read-handling does.

=Well now hold a second... the best you can do here is compare relative
=differences between mmap and read.

This is all I am doing, actually. :-)

=If you really want to compare operating systems, you have to run the
=OS's and the tests on the same hardware.

I am comparing relative differences between between read and mmap on
different OSes.

=:  4.8-stable on Pentium2-400MHz
=:  mmap: 21.507u 11.472s 1:27.53 37.6%   62+276k 99+0io 44736pf+0w
=:  read: 10.619u 23.814s 1:17.67 44.3%   62+274k 11255+0io 0pf+0w
=
=mmap 12% slower then read.  12% isn't much.

Well, now we are venturing into the domain of humans' subjective
perception... I'd say, 12% is plenty, actually. This is what some people
achieve by rewriting stuff in assembler -- and are proud, when it works
:-)

=:  recent -current on dual P2 Xeon-450MHz (mmap WINS -- SMP?)
=:  mmap: 12.482u 12.872s 2:28.70 17.0%   74+298k 23+0io 46522pf+0w
=:  read: 7.255u 16.366s 3:27.07 11.4%70+283k 44437+0io 7pf+0w
=
=mmap 39% faster.  That's a significant difference.
=
=It kinda smells funny, actually... are you sure that you compiled
=your FreeBSD-5 system with Witness turned off?

There are no "WITNESS" options in the kernel's config file (unlike in
NOTES). So, unless there has to be some sort of explicit "NOWITNESS", I
am sure.

=:  recent -current on a Centrino-laptop P4-1GHz (NO win at all)
=:  mmap: 4.197u 3.920s 2:07.57 6.3%  65+284k 63+0io 45568pf+0w
=:  read: 3.965u 4.265s 1:50.26 7.4%  67+291k 13131+0io 17pf+0w
=
=mmap 15% slower.

=:  Linux 2.4.20-30.9bigmem dual P4-3GHz (with a different file)
=:  mmap: 2.280u 4.800s 1:13.39 9.6%  0+0k 0+0io 512434pf+0w
=:  read: 1.630u 2.820s 0:08.89 50.0% 0+0k 0+0io 396pf+0w
=
=mmap 821% slower on Linux?  With a different file?  So these numbers
=can't be compared to anything else (over and above the fact that this
=machine is three times faster then any of the others).

No, the file is different (as is the processor) -- relative performance
difference only. I was quite surprised myself. My fmd5 program does not
show such a dramatic difference, but `fgrep --mmap' is vastly slower on
Linux, than the regular `fgrep'. Here are the results of the two new
fgrep runs:

mmap1: 1.450u 3.000s 0:46.00 9.6%  0+0k 0+0io 512439pf+0w
read1: 1.830u 2.620s 0:09.51 46.7% 0+0k 0+0io 393pf+0w
mmap2: 1.700u 4.040s 1:02.31 9.2%  0+0k 0+0io 512427pf+0w
read2: 1.330u 3.150s 0:09.38 47.7% 0+0k 0+0io 396pf+0w

=I'm not sure why you are complaining about FreeBSD.

Because I have much higher expectations for it :-) I thought, I'll be
able to use the powerful technique of presenting a Linux' superiority in
some area to fire up rapid improvements in the same area in FreeBSD. Now
I'm back to fighting the "12% gain is not worth the effort" mentality.

=:Once mmap-handling is improved, all sorts of whole-file operations
=:(bzip2, gzip, md5, sha1) can be made faster...

=Well, your numbers don't really say that. It looks like you might
=eeek out a 10-15% improvement, and while this is faster it really
=isn't all that much faster. It certainly isn't something to write
=home about, and certainly not significant enough to warrant major
=codework.

Put it into perspective -- 10-15% is usually the difference between
the latest processor and the previous one. Pe

Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Bill Moran]

Matthew Seaman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 05:25:20PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote:
>  
> > The return can be significant.  The company I am doing this for provides IMAP
> > mail services for business.  If a filesystem crashes and service is down for a
> > while, we can easily lose clients.  If we had some sort of failover, we'd be
> > able to just switch the IP on the backup machine and life would be good.
> > 
> > "long way to go" is what I'm trying to establish.  I was hoping to find
> > something workable without reinventing the wheel.  For example, Postgresql can
> > do real-time replication between two Postgresql servers using Slony.  If I can
> > find an IMAP server that will keep the mail folders in PostgreSQL, I've got my
> > failover system ... tada!
> 
> http://wiki.dovecot.org/moin.cgi/DovecotPostgresql

Unfortunately, this only keeps the user database in Postgresql, but not the
mailboxes themselves.  We already have the equivalent of this using LDAP, and
I'm in the process of setting up a slave LDAP server for redundancy.

It's the mailboxes themselves that are difficult to get.  Best we've got right
now is backing up the Cyrus mail folders using rsync ... but this is very time-
consuming, and (thus) only done once a day.  In order for it to be done right,
Cyrus has to be shut down while it's backing up.

Thanks Matthew!

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Matthew Seaman]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 05:25:20PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote:
 
> The return can be significant.  The company I am doing this for provides IMAP
> mail services for business.  If a filesystem crashes and service is down for a
> while, we can easily lose clients.  If we had some sort of failover, we'd be
> able to just switch the IP on the backup machine and life would be good.
> 
> "long way to go" is what I'm trying to establish.  I was hoping to find
> something workable without reinventing the wheel.  For example, Postgresql can
> do real-time replication between two Postgresql servers using Slony.  If I can
> find an IMAP server that will keep the mail folders in PostgreSQL, I've got my
> failover system ... tada!

http://wiki.dovecot.org/moin.cgi/DovecotPostgresql

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   26 The Paddocks
  Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
Tel: +44 1628 476614  Bucks., SL7 1TH UK


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Re: Redirection with a bridge ?

[Charles Swiger]

On Jun 21, 2004, at 5:10 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:
[ ... ]
So basically, I either have to use some other form of redirecting web 
packets (a bogus DNS server maybe), or switch to a NAT instead of a 
bridge.  Correct?
Yes, more or less.  There are other approaches which could be taken 
which are more complex, but the basic answer is that NAT is probably 
the right approach.

--
-Chuck
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Re: Msn Voice conversation

[Bill Moran]

Charles Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 21, 2004, at 4:21 PM, Dj Uwins wrote:
> > I'm trying to get msn voice conversation working through NATD. I've 
> > been
> > reading alot of posts and there are others who can't seem to get this
> > working by trying to forward ports in natd.conf.
> 
> Yes, the H.323 protocol family is a nightmare in terms of complexity 
> and it simply doesn't play nice with NAT or reasonable firewall 
> configurations.  My recommendation would be to block the H.323 protocol 
> entirely and use something else rather than compromise one's security.
> 
> > Does anyone know how to make this happen?
> 
> This is a hard problem which may not be solvable without paying license 
> fees for proprietary H.323 resources and documentation.  Have you 
> looked into getting a commercial firewall which supports H.323 proxying 
> via NAT...?

Another option would be to install Asterisk on your firewall and configure it
to handle the proxying.  (Asterisk is an open source VoIP server, amoung other
things.)

Last I checked, there were still a lot of security concerns about running VoIP
over the Internet.  I see a lot of people doing it anyway, and I expect there
will be a big surge of viruses, worms or some other exploit in the near future
as a result.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: missing ports; portsdb problem

[Jim Arnold]

> Jim,
> 
> You mentioned that you didn't have a refuse file.
> 
> You might want to double check that
> /usr/local/etc/cvsup/sup/refuse or
>
[other_default_base_specified_by_your_ports_supfile]/sup/refuse
> does
> indeed not exist.
> 
> find / -name refuse -print#also a handy way,
> providing your user has
> the perms to read the dirs where refuse might be
> lurking.
>  
> > But, I didn't bother to remove my recently
> cvsup'ed ports collection
> > (sans other lang). I just edited my refuse file to
> allow alternate
> > lang ports back in and re-cvsup'ed. Afterward, my
> portsdb -uU also
> > succeeded.
> 
> Yeah.  Something changed a couple of weeks ago. 
> This solution worked for
> me too.
> 
> Good luck,
> epi


Hm. Well, I did have both
/usr/src/refuse
/usr/sup/refuse
and they both had other languages in them.

I don't remember adding them but that's not saying
much   ;)

I'll try removing those files and do another run at
updating the ports. Thanks for the help.

Jim





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Re: iSCSI support in FreeBSD?

[K. Greenwood]

--- Forrest Aldrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there planned iSCSI support in FreeBSD 4 or
> 5.

Well... no one else has responded.  Considering I have
nil experience, all I can do is offer links.

http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20040405125530.14f97d7a

And you can navigate to...

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi

for an updated man entry regarding ISP (specific to
your chosen version of FreeBSD).  Good luck.

K. Greenwood



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LRZ bug?

[Alex Mitchell]

We have clients that have HHP Dolphin scanners that are connected directly to modems 
through the com port.  The scanners dial into a modem pool (radius server), which then 
authenticates based on username and password and forwards the upload data files to our 
server via an rlogin connection.  When the rlogin connects, the user's shell is one 
that we wrote that uses lrz.  We've got no problems uploading files that are between 
0-7K in size.  I've tried uploading files 12K and 23K and both fail, giving me an NAK 
error.

We've tried this on FreeBSD 4.2 and FreeBSD 5.2.1.  Didn't work with the larger file 
sizes on either.  We've tried this same process on a Linux machine and it works just 
fine, with any file size.  When testing with Linux, we used the same version of LRZ, 
which is the most current available.  The LRZ command that the .sh file is using is 
/usr/local/bin/lrz -v --quiet --ymodem

12K file stops uploading at about 8K and the 24K file stops uploading at about 16K.

Do you have any thoughts on why this would happen?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
Thanks,
Alex

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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Bill Moran]

Andy Harrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:20:06 -0400, Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Hey,
> > 
> > I know questions like this get asked a lot, but I'm going to be really specific.
> > 
> > I know how to set up failover with a backup MX.  That's not what I'm looking
> > for.  We have a cyrus-imap server with lots of users connecting via IMAP,
> > while everything gets backed up, this only happens once a night.  Thus, if the
> > server were to go up in smoke right before the backup occurred, we'd lose
> > something like 23 hours worth of emails.
> > 
> > Does anyone have a solution to provide real-time mirroring of IMAP folders?
> > I don't mind manual intervention to get the thing running again, I just want
> > to ensure that if an email is received, it's on both machines and can't get
> > lost.  Is there a way to get real-time replication of cyrus (I'm no cyrus
> > guru, another fellow set this up)
> > 
> > I'm not tied to Cyrus either, if there's another solution, I'd be happy to
> > implement it.
> > 
> > I have an idea ... by using Dovecot with PostgreSQL storing the actual mail
> > folders, with Slony installed to provide real-time replication of the Postgres
> > database ... I don't know if Dovecot is able to store the actual mail folders
> > in Postgres yet, though ... Anyone?
> 
> Real time mirroring would be a long way to go for very little
> return.

The return can be significant.  The company I am doing this for provides IMAP
mail services for business.  If a filesystem crashes and service is down for a
while, we can easily lose clients.  If we had some sort of failover, we'd be
able to just switch the IP on the backup machine and life would be good.

"long way to go" is what I'm trying to establish.  I was hoping to find
something workable without reinventing the wheel.  For example, Postgresql can
do real-time replication between two Postgresql servers using Slony.  If I can
find an IMAP server that will keep the mail folders in PostgreSQL, I've got my
failover system ... tada!

> You'd be much better off with some sort of NAS in a raid
> config, even if it were home grown, to store the spools.

We already have a "home-grown NAS" (just a FreeBSD box with Vinum RAID) but
it doesn't protect me if the machine with the drives has a power supply or a
mobo or a CPU go south.  I don't know if a NAS is any more reliable than a
PC, but it's still a single point of failure.

>  Then you can
> have as many front-ends as you want, just auth with LDAP or something.

We actually, already sort of have this (we're in the process of putting the
second front-end together now)

Thanks for the feedback, Andy!

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: Msn Voice conversation

[Charles Swiger]

On Jun 21, 2004, at 4:21 PM, Dj Uwins wrote:
I'm trying to get msn voice conversation working through NATD. I've 
been
reading alot of posts and there are others who can't seem to get this
working by trying to forward ports in natd.conf.
Yes, the H.323 protocol family is a nightmare in terms of complexity 
and it simply doesn't play nice with NAT or reasonable firewall 
configurations.  My recommendation would be to block the H.323 protocol 
entirely and use something else rather than compromise one's security.

Does anyone know how to make this happen?
This is a hard problem which may not be solvable without paying license 
fees for proprietary H.323 resources and documentation.  Have you 
looked into getting a commercial firewall which supports H.323 proxying 
via NAT...?

--
-Chuck
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Re: CURRENT does not build (annotate.texi)

[Kris Kennaway]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 02:48:16PM +0200, Axel S. Gruner wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i got some problems building CURRENT maybe someone can tell me what the 
> problem is:

One problem is that you're tracking -current without reading or
posting to the corresponding mailing list.

Kris


pgpBISwOuUG0u.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: wierd router crashes...

[Alison Lloyd]

Jorn Argelo said:
> Alison Lloyd wrote:
>>I'm trying to get a FreeBSD box set up as a router between my cable
>>internet connection and my home LAN.  I'm using a Compaq Professional
>>Workstation 5000 (yes, the Pentium Pro thingy), which I've installed an
>>extra NIC into.  The output from uname -a is:
>>
>>FreeBSD gorgonzola 4.9-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE #1: Thu May 20
>> 23:35:28
>>BST 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GORGONZOLA i386
>>
>>I'm using 4.9 because 5.2.1 refuses to find any harddrives (IDE or SCSI),
>>incidently.  I've recompiled the original kernel to include ipfw support.
>>My firewall ruleset is:
>>
>>add 1 divert 8668 ip from any to any via tl0
>>add 6 allow ip from any to any
>>add 11010 allow tcp from any to any established
>>add 11100 deny log tcp from any to tl0
>>
>>where tl0 is the external interface and rl0 is the internal one.  I've
>> got
>>everything up and running, got the external interface registered with my
>>ISP, and can connect to the internet fine (http, ftp, ports all work).
>>I've set the box up to DHCP for its external IP (which it does fine), and
>>to use 192.168.1.1 for the internal one.
>>
>>The problems come in when I try to use a machine on the internal LAN -
>> the
>>router locks solid - no response to anything at all.  It passes a few
>>packets to start with, but then dies.  After reboot, there are no
>>suspicious entries in the logs, at least none that I can find.  So long
>> as
>>I don't do anything on the internal LAN, everything runs perfectly!
>>
>>I've tried disabling all extraneous things (sendmail, etc.), to no avail.
>>I'm not sure what to try next, as I'm fairly new to FreeBSD and firewalls
>>/ routers in general.
>>
>>Hlp!
>>  Alison
>>
> What are you using to let your internal LAN connect to the outside
> world? Are you using a proxy server or natd or something else? If you're
> using natd, do make sure that you're routing it to the right NIC (Your
> external NIC to your ISP should be in the natd_interface section at
> /etc/rc.conf) If that's not the case, I can't really think of something
> else.

I'm using natd, with a natd_interface line in my rc.conf routing it to the
external interface.  I've also specified dynamic, unregistered_only and
use_sockets for natd.

What sort of tracking can I implement, to try to find out what's breaking?
 Is there any way to bump up the error logging level or something?

> You're saying that 5.2.1 is not able to locate your harddrive at all?
> And you just have a simple ATA controller with nothing else? It should
> be working just fine then. Perhaps that your installation media was bad
> or there is a hardware problem with your machine. I never seen 5.2.1 not
> being able to detect a proper working IDE drive.

Although hardware failure is a possibility (this is very old kit, after
all), since everything runs perfectly under 4.9, I'm inclined to believe
the hardware is ok.  5.2.1 doesn't locate any hard drives at all, IDE or
SCSI (although it does allow booting (but not reading) off the IDE
cd-rom).  I used an ISO downloaded from the website which boots fine...

Alison

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Re: Redirection with a bridge ?

[Charles Swiger]

On Jun 21, 2004, at 4:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is it possible to redirect packets that are being passed through a 
bridge
based on their protocol/port, so that if a HTTP packet (port 80) goes
through the bridge, no matter what its destination is, it will be
redirected to IP address 4.3.2.1.
Yes.  In order to redirect packets to a different IP address, you have 
to rewrite those packets, which is what natd or ipnat do, working at 
layer 3.

Thats what I'm trying to solve.  I know that you can do the above
successfully if you are using a NAT (ipnat) or if you are doing routing
(IPFW's forward command), but is it possible to do it with a bridge?
Bridging works at layer-2.  Without using NAT, bridging alone will 
forward the traffic but not change the destination IP to 4.3.2.1.

Note that the IPFW forward command redirects traffic via a specific 
outbound interface, it does not perform layer-3 routing (ie, your 
traditional IP stuff using netmasks, gateways, and the local routing 
table that most people mean by the word "routing").

--
-Chuck
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Re: Ports make search broken

[Kent Stewart]

On Monday 21 June 2004 01:32 pm, Jason Oakley wrote:
> $ cd /usr/ports
>   $ make search name=centericq
> Makefile:67: *** missing separator.  Stop.
>
> I got the Makefile from a friend as well (he has the same version
> FreeBSD as I do) but I get the same error.
>
>

Your system is broken someplace. Your makefiles and etc are supposed to 
be obtained using cvsup.

Kent

> -
> http://www.bangrocks.com/ - http://www.auspug.org/
>
> http://www.ZigZagSoft.com/ - PalmOS Software and "Palm Games
> Programming" forum
>
>
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-- 
Kent Stewart
Richland, WA

http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html
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Installworld errors with mtree

[Timms, Simon]

Hi, 
I was just helping a friend through an install world and, as seems to be the
way with his computer, we ran into problems.  We were updating an early 5
series (possibly 5.0 release) to 5.2_1.  We went through all the steps as
outlined in UPDATING and everything seemed to be working fine right up to
the install world.  The first time through we ran into some problems with
gencat which we fixed by copying the gencat binary from the obj directory.

Now we have run into a core dump with mtree.  I have googled and come up
with a reference to PR i386/30276 but this seems to be largely related to
building across systems or at least changing the CPUTYPE during the build
process.  These errors are also quite old (April/May 2002) so it leads me to
believe that there is something else up.  Does anybody have ideas related to
this?  We would certainly appreciate any help you might offer.  

Limited output:
mtree -deU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p /
pid 41399 (mtree), uid 0: exited on signal 12 (core dumped)


Thanks, 
Simon


 

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Re: blocking internally

[Kevin Stevens]

Was there any followup on this, John?  --  KeS

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004, Kevin Stevens wrote:

>
> On Jun 19, 2004, at 06:11, John Lee wrote:
>
> > hi, i have 7 ips on one box, however they can't connect internally
> > to each other IP ports. please advise.
>
> Counting below, you only reference 6 IP addresses on the box:
> 63.223.65.192, 63.223.65.193, 63.223.71.2, 63.223.71.3, 63.223.71.4,
> and 63.223.71.5.  What's the seventh one?
>
> > here's my setup:
> >
> > rc.conf:
> > defaultrouter="63.223.65.1"
> > ifconfig_sis0="inet 63.223.65.192  netmask 255.255.255.0"
> >
> > /etc/ips.added:
> > ifconfig sis0 inet 63.223.65.193/32 alias
>
> Ok.  BTW, these statements indicate that you own an entire class C of
> public address space.  That seems unlikely, and if it's not the case,
> you shouldn't be using the addresses.
>
> > ifconfig sis0 inet 63.223.71.2/32 alias
> > ifconfig sis0 inet 63.223.71.3/32 alias
> > ifconfig sis0 inet 63.223.71.4/32 alias
> > ifconfig sis0 inet 63.223.71.5/32 alias
>
> Problem here.  These addresses are not in the same subnet as the
> primary address (63.223.65.0/24).  Therefore you shouldn't use a /32
> for them, you should use the actual netmask.  This is definitely true
> for the FIRST 63.223.71.x address, and I *think* it's true for the
> others as well.  I've never actually seen an example of assigning
> multiple IPs for a second subnet under FreeBSD.
>
> > route add 63.223.65.193 63.223.65.1
>
> This is broken.  You're saying "route any traffic this host is sending,
> destined for itself, to an external gateway".  I really doubt you want
> to do that.
>
> > route add 63.223.71.2 63.223.71.1
> > route add 63.223.71.3 63.223.71.1
> > route add 63.223.71.4 63.223.71.1
> > route add 63.223.71.5 63.223.71.1
>
> Again broken, for the same reasons.  You don't normally enter routing
> statements for your OWN IP addresses, you enter routing statements that
> describe how to reach OTHER addresses/networks.
>
> KeS
>
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Ports make search broken

[Jason Oakley]

$ cd /usr/ports
 $ make search name=centericq
Makefile:67: *** missing separator.  Stop.
I got the Makefile from a friend as well (he has the same version FreeBSD 
as I do) but I get the same error.

-
http://www.bangrocks.com/ - http://www.auspug.org/
http://www.ZigZagSoft.com/ - PalmOS Software and "Palm Games Programming" forum
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[OT] Re: Overly brief answers (was Re: Terminal Server)

[Nico Meijer]

Hi Bill!
I am joyfully amazed at how much one simple "yes" can stir up, other 
than at weddings. ;-)

First off: I didn't mean to put OP or anyone else off. Yes, I must 
admit, there is a 'smart @$$' element in my answer, which is totally my bad.

Please take note that I am a nice guy, usually overly helpful 
(admittedly, not per se on this list, but I have a photograph to 
actually prove my point ;-) ) and light hearted. You cannot actually see 
my emails are written with a smile on my face. My bad, again.

This is not an answer to the question.
Yes and no. Yes, remote access. Yes, multiple sessions. No, the hidden 
questions I did not answer. With a purpose, I must add.

It does not answer the question and does
not contribute to the OPs knowledge of FreeBSD, nor does it contribute to the
list archives.
In a 'smart @$$' way, I was actually trying to get OP to *think* about 
his question and hopefully restate it. Taken as it is (i.e. literally), 
it was a wrong question with a right answer.

OP might have asked additionally: "If so, where could I begin to read 
and learn for myself?" Basically, "Will you help me to help myself?" To 
me, that is on the right track. "Will you hold my hand and do it for 
me?" is off limits, if you ask me, but OP was not going for this, obviously.

It's also a violation of the rule against "me too" answers as
laid out in "How to Get the Best Results from FreeBSD-Questions".
I'll be sure to reread it.
It doesn't
even serve to educate the OP on how to ask better questins.
You're probably right, although my intentions were just that.
You could say that "technically, he didn't ask" but it
boils down to just being rude.
I disagree. :-)

Asking a question on a high traffic mailing list without showing you've 
done some basic homework is rude. Implying/hiding questions instead of 
asking them directly is rude. (Hey, I was implying aswell!)


ESR has a well written piece on this very matter.
I don't think answers like this reflect well on FreeBSD or the FreeBSD
community.  Short answers like "see 'man foo'" are appropriate, as they impart
some knowledge and tell the OP that his question is answered in the indicated
documentation, but this doesn't follow that template.
What greater good is there than to help someone help themselves? I guess 
none.

So yes, I had done better had I pointed at some docs. I apologize for 
not doing that.

Bye... Nico 'my bad' Meijer
P.S. Although I *do* feel a greeting at the top of a message makes a 
world of difference. :-) Did you notice OP greeted? Did you notice I 
did? Can you see me smiling right now? :-)

P.P.S. No, that was not sarcasm, nor intended harmfully. :-)
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Msn Voice conversation

[Dj Uwins]

Hello!

I'm trying to get msn voice conversation working through NATD. I've been
reading alot of posts and there are others who can't seem to get this
working by trying to forward ports in natd.conf. I guess NATD does not
recognize the voice protocol properly and cannot alias it. This is a link
that explains this:
http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=284576+0+archive/2002/freebsd-q
uestions/20021110.freebsd-questions

Does anyone know how to make this happen?

Thanks :)

Darrick j Uwins

"look through my heart often. Consciously see the world and everything you
experience as if I am the one experiencing all of it, not you. When you
cross this bridge and reach the other side, then you will see that we are
the same, that we share the same heart. Then you will KNOW and you will SEE.
The next step will then be yours."

Buddha


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maxproc limit reached with trivial exec() in cgi script

[Peter Risdon]

apache+mod_ssl-1.3.29+2.8.16 (suexec), PHP 4.3.4 (cgi), FreeBSD 4.10-STABLE
exec("ls -l") in a php cgi script works the first time it is run after a 
reboot Every subsequent invocation gives

/kernel: maxproc limit exceeded by uid 1208, please see tuning(7) and 
login.conf(5)

in /var/log/messages and
Warning: exec(): Unable to fork [ls -l]
on the webpage.
A similar problem showed up in April this year:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2004-April/045102.html
But had no responses. That was also a webserver running php4.
man 7 tuning doesn't mention maxproc, and /etc/login.conf is the 
default, with

:maxproc=unlimited:\
Googling tells me that unable to fork errors are commonish with php but 
mostly on Windows, often boil down to permissions, and are supposed to 
be improved by using the cgi version. This isn't Windows, permissions 
are fine and I am running as cgi.

I suspect php cgi and apache suexec don't play nicely together. But I'd 
be grateful for any better informed pointers.

TIA
Peter.
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Re: read vs. mmap (or io vs. page faults)

[Matthew Dillon]

:
:= pre-faulting is best done by a worker thread or child process, or it
:= will just slow you down..
:
:Read is also used for large files sometimes, and never tries to prefetch
:the whole file at once. Why can't the same smarts/heuristics be employed
:by the page-fault handling code -- especially, if we are so proud of our
:unified caching?

Both read and mmap have a read-ahead heuristic.  The heuristic works.
In fact, the mmap heuristic is so smart it can read-behind as well as
read-ahead if it detects a backwards scan.  The heuristic does not try 
to read megabytes and megabytes ahead, however... that might speed up
this particular application a little, but it would destroy performance
for many other types of applications, especially in a loaded environment.

:If anything mmap/madvise provide the kernel with _more_ information than
:read -- kernel just does not use it, it seems.
:
:According to my tests (`fgrep string /huge/file' vs. `fgrep --mmap
:string /huge/file') the total CPU time is much less with mmap. But
:sometimes the total "wall clock" time is longer with itj because the CPU
:is underutilized, when using the mmap method.

Well now hold a second... the best you can do here is compare relative
differences between mmap and read.  All of these machines are different,
with different cpus and different configurations.  For example, a 
duel-P2 is going to be horrendously bad doing SMP things because the P2's
locked bus cycle instruction overhead is horrendous.  That is going to
seriously skew the results.  There are major architectural differences
between these cpus... cache size, memory bandwidth, MP operations 
overhead, not to mention raw megaherz.  Disk transfer rate and the
disk bus interface and driver will also make a big difference here,
as well as the contents of the file you are fgrep'ing.

If you really want to compare operating systems, you have to run the
OS's and the tests on the same hardware.

:   4.8-stable on Pentium2-400MHz
:   mmap: 21.507u 11.472s 1:27.53 37.6%   62+276k 99+0io 44736pf+0w
:   read: 10.619u 23.814s 1:17.67 44.3%   62+274k 11255+0io 0pf+0w

mmap 12% slower then read.  12% isn't much.

:   recent -current on dual P2 Xeon-450MHz (mmap WINS -- SMP?)
:   mmap: 12.482u 12.872s 2:28.70 17.0%   74+298k 23+0io 46522pf+0w
:   read: 7.255u 16.366s 3:27.07 11.4%70+283k 44437+0io 7pf+0w

mmap 39% faster.  That's a significant difference.

It kinda smells funny, actually... are you sure that you compiled
your FreeBSD-5 system with Witness turned off?

:   recent -current on a Centrino-laptop P4-1GHz (NO win at all)
:   mmap: 4.197u 3.920s 2:07.57 6.3%  65+284k 63+0io 45568pf+0w
:   read: 3.965u 4.265s 1:50.26 7.4%  67+291k 13131+0io 17pf+0w

mmap 15% slower.

:   Linux 2.4.20-30.9bigmem dual P4-3GHz (with a different file)
:   mmap: 2.280u 4.800s 1:13.39 9.6%  0+0k 0+0io 512434pf+0w
:   read: 1.630u 2.820s 0:08.89 50.0% 0+0k 0+0io 396pf+0w

mmap 821% slower on Linux?  With a different file?  So these numbers
can't be compared to anything else (over and above the fact that this
machine is three times faster then any of the others).

It kinda looks like either you wrote the linux numbers down wrong,
or linux's mmap is much, much worse then FreeBSD's.  I'm not sure why
you are complaining about FreeBSD.  If I were to assume 1:08.89 instead
of 1:13.39 the difference would be 6.5%, which is narrower then 15%
but not by all that much... a few seconds is nothing to quibble over.

:The attached md5-computing program is more CPU consuming than fgrep. It
:wins with mmap even on the "sceptical" Centrino-laptop -- presumably,
:because MD5_Update is not interrupted as much and remains in the
:instruction cache:
:
:   read: 22.024u 8.418s 1:28.44 34.4%5+166k 10498+0io 4pf+0w
:   mmap: 21.428u 3.086s 1:23.88 29.2%5+170k 40+0io 19649pf+0w

read is 6% faster then mmap here.

:Once mmap-handling is improved, all sorts of whole-file operations
:(bzip2, gzip, md5, sha1) can be made faster...
:
:   -mi

Well, your numbers don't really say that.  It looks like you might
eeek out a 10-15% improvement, and while this is faster it really isn't
all that much faster.  It certainly isn't something to write home about,
and certainly not significant enough to warrent major codework.

Though I personally have major issues with FreeBSD-5's performance
in general, I don't really see that anything stands out in these tests
except perhaps for FreeBSD-5's horrible MP performance with read() vs
mmap() on the duel P2 (but I suspect that might be due to some other 
issue such as perhaps Witness being turned on).

If you really want to get comparative results you have to run all of
these tests on the same hardware with the

wpc54g pcmcia

[Anatoliy Romanko]

Heya,

I'm trying to get linksys wireless adapter to work with my laptop.
I have Compaq Evo n610c. Linksys WPC54G pcmcia adapter.

So far I have seen many hints on how this stuff works, but coudn't put it
all together.

uname
 FreeBSD evo 5.2.1-RELEASE #1: Mon Jun 14 17:53:54 EDT 2004
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/EVO  i386

Basicly in rc.conf
pccard_enable="YES" # pcmcia startup

plugging card out and back in gives me in messages.log this
end () > sc->memlimit (403f)
end () > sc->memlimit (403f)
cardbus0:  at device 0.0 (no driver attached)
cbb0: CardBus card activation failed


in /boot/loader.conf
# PCMCIA card battle
hw.cardbus.debug="1"
hw.cardbus.debug_cis="1"

hw.cbb.start_memory="0xd0213500"
hw.cbb.start_32_io="0x4096"
hw.cbb.start_16_io="0x256"

hw.pci.enable_io_modes="1"
hw.pci.allow_unsupported_io_range="1"

if_wi_load="YES" # WaveLAN/IEEE 802.11 wireless NICs
# end PCMCIA battle

and finaly
pciconf -lv
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:0:0: class=0x028000 card=0x43201737 chip=0x432014e4 rev=0x03
hdr=0x00
vendor   = 'Broadcom Corporation'
device   = 'BCM4306(??) 802.11g Wireless NIC'
class= network

..
so. Have anyone get this sanamabish to work?
and if yes, how? Do I need to use ndiswrapper?

All thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Cheers,




Anatoliy
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Re: Installing FreeBSD on Sparc Ultra II clone

[Charles Swiger]

On Jun 21, 2004, at 3:23 PM, Matthew Seaman wrote:
I admit I had never heard of a sparc clone
made by them. Seeing as the sparc based models listed on the
www.tsti.com site look kind of old hat nowadays, I don't thing it's
safe to assume 'Tatung' means 'Sparc Clone' any more...
A client of ours once bought one for use for development purposes 
before going into production with real Sun hardware,  The Tatung SPARC 
clones closely resemble the Sun Ultra 10s.

--
-Chuck
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Repeated polling of CD/DVD-ROM.

[Lewis Thompson]

Hi,

I have written some code that does some rather nasty stuff to determine
whether or not there is media in the drive.  It is basically this:

open('/dev/dvd', 'rb')
read(1)

  at which point if I get an exception (in Python) I know there is no
media (or it is blank).  If it throws no exception I consider the disc
to be good.

  I know how bad this is (I unfortunately don't understand ioctls and
need this to work quickly in the short term -- I plan on learning more
about this stuff and doing it properly later) but my question is this:

Does the device actually get read /every/ time I do this operation?  (it
gets called every two seconds)  It looks to me that after an initial
probe there are no further accesses, which makes me wonder if further
down some caching is done.  Anybody know what is really going on?

  Thanks,

-lewiz.

-- 
I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.  --Bob Dylan, 1964.

-| msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | url:www.lewiz.org |-


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Re: Overly brief answers (was Re: Terminal Server)

[epilogue]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 14:51:40 -0400
Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Kevin Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:27:44 -0400
> > > Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nico Meijer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > > Can FreeBSD act like Windows Terminal Server, i.e. remote
> > > > > > access, multiple sessions?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes.
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to start a brief discussion about these kinds of answers
> > > > to questions.
> > > >
> > > > I've been seeing this quite a bit lately.  I don't know if it's
> > > > just one person, of if multiple folks have picked up on it.
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > This is not an answer to the question.  It does not answer the
> > > > question and does not contribute to the OPs knowledge of FreeBSD,
> > > > nor does it contribute to the list archives.  It's also a violation
> > > > of the rule against "me too" answers as laid out in "How to Get the
> > > > Best Results from FreeBSD-Questions".  It doesn't even serve to
> > > > educate the OP on how to ask better questins.
> > 
> > With it understood that opinions vary, I disagree with yours in this
> > case. The question was posed as a "yes or no" question, with no
> > followup. Therefore, "yes" or "no" *precisely* answers it.
> > 
> > For all we know, the OP was merely asking to get a quick determination
> > of what the solution set was.  I ask such questions of colleagues
> > often, and am not interested in the particulars at that point.
> > 
> > > > First off, there are actually two questions hidden in the post:
> > > > "Can FreeBSD act as a WTS?", and "can FreeBSD provide the same
> > > > services as WTS?"  Is "yes" your answer to both of them?  Because,
> > > > if it is, I'd like to know which software allows it to function as
> > > > a WTS, since my searches have not found any such software.
> > 
> > The OP didn't say "as", s/he said "like", and then went on to list the
> > criteria for "like".
> > 
> > > > This leads to the implied question of "what software provides the
> > > > capability" which (despite not being voice, directly) is pretty
> > > > obvious. You've totally ignored that question.  You could say that
> > > > "technically, he didn't ask" but it boils down to just being rude.
> > > > 
> > 
> > I don't generally answer implicit questions, and I don't believe that
> > behavior is rude.  Quite the contrary - I believe it is *respectful* to
> > grant the assumption that people mean what they say/ask.

Good points.  Further, I think that we *all* have reasoned assumptions
which inform our replies and with which we have to reckon.

For my part, I tend to assume that people asking general questions
about (or ostensibly specific questions which upon closer examination
reveal their limited exposure to / understanding of) FreeBSD are new to
the project and would probably benefit from whatever 'additional'
information / resources we are able to provide.

> > To do otherwise scans to me as "I don't think you know what you're
> > saying, so I'm going to assume I know better than you and treat you
> > like an idiot.".

I don't think that I've ever been insulted by someone offering me
additional or superfluous help.  E-mail is a fairly impersonal medium.  I
tend to give the benefit of the doubt, whenever possible.  Now, if I bought
a box of soap at the laudromat and was given the soap *and* a course on how
to put the quarters into the machine...

I suppose that ends my 2 cents on this thread.:)

> > My favorite example is trying to extract a simple answer on how to
> > enable telnetd on a given system, which is guaranteed to produce a
> > firestorm of"don't use telnet" responses which have nothing to do with
> > the question, overtly assume the OP is an idiot, and show little or no
> > understanding about security postures in general or the OPs situation
> > in specific.  But I digress ;).
> > 
> > In this case, I see nothing wrong with the response.  If the OP
> > deliberately chose to frame a yes/no question, then s/he has their
> > response.  If they then want to frame followup questions, there's
> > nothing in the response to discourage them from doing so.  If we have
> > to make an assumption, let's make the assumption that they know how to
> > ask a question, rather than the dual assumption that they DON'T know
> > how to ask a question, and that we can guess what their intent actually
> > was.
> 
> Very valid points.  If I were going to look for someone to discuss the
> opposite side of the coin on this, I would go to you first, as you've
> managed to completely disagree with me in an intelligent fashion!  Bravo.
> 
> I don't have many arguments to place in response to your disagreement, so
> I'll keep my counter-opinions short:
> 1) I prefer to err on the side of too much information than to err on the
> side
>of not enough.  This addresses a lot of your points, but is only a
>matter of personal pref

missing ports; portsdb problem

[epilogue]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:14:44 -0600
Kendall Gifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bill Sawyer wrote:
> 
> > Jim,
> > 
> > I had the same problem.  I think it was a tk port, if I recall
> > correctly.
> > 
> > The only way I could fix it was to rm -drv /usr/ports & rm my refuse
> > file, then cvsup again.  After that, portsdb -Uu ran properly (though
> > it took forever).
> > 
> > 
> 
> I had the same problem recently since I was blocking all non-english
> ports in my refuse file. Just as was mentioned above, I removed it.


Jim,

You mentioned that you didn't have a refuse file.

You might want to double check that /usr/local/etc/cvsup/sup/refuse or
[other_default_base_specified_by_your_ports_supfile]/sup/refuse does
indeed not exist.

find / -name refuse -print#also a handy way, providing your user has
the perms to read the dirs where refuse might be lurking.
 
> But, I didn't bother to remove my recently cvsup'ed ports collection
> (sans other lang). I just edited my refuse file to allow alternate
> lang ports back in and re-cvsup'ed. Afterward, my portsdb -uU also
> succeeded.

Yeah.  Something changed a couple of weeks ago.  This solution worked for
me too.

Good luck,
epi

> So, basically what I'm saying is that I'd try the above recommendation
> but without rm-ing /usr/ports. This should save some download time.
> Plus, if for some reason it doesn't work, you can always clean out your
> ports dir later.
> 
> -- 
> Kendall Gifford
> 
> WEB:   http://kendall.jedis.com/
> EMAIL: REPLY TO NEWSGROUP
> 
> 
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Re: Installing FreeBSD on Sparc Ultra II clone

[Garance A Drosihn]

At 8:23 PM +0100 6/21/04, Matthew Seaman wrote:
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 12:22:15PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
 >
 It would be an interesting "Sparc Ultra II" clone which could
 > boot up off of i386 floppies...
Tatung's latest products include a range of AMD Opteron and
Xeon based rack mount and blade servers, plus their UK site
lists some "Tablet PCs" based on Intel CPUs.
I am sure you are right, but the subject on *this* thread is:
Installing FreeBSD on Sparc Ultra II clone
  ^^
which is why I answered the way I did.
Cheers...   :-)
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn=   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Programmer   or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Installing FreeBSD on Sparc Ultra II clone

[Matthew Seaman]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 12:22:15PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
> At 5:02 PM +0100 6/21/04, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> >On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 10:41:26AM -0500, Hank Allen wrote:
> > > I would like to get some info on installing FreeBSD by booting
> > > with floppies and using ftp to download on a Tatung machine.
> > > I'm not sure where to get the disk images. Any help would be
> > > greatly appreciated.
> >
> >Either here:
> >
> >ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/5.2.1-RELEASE/floppies/
> >
> >or here:
> >
> >ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.10-RELEASE/floppies/
> 
> It would be an interesting "Sparc Ultra II" clone which could
> boot up off of i386 floppies...
> 
> I do not know of FreeBSD/SPARC64 would run on that clone.  You
> might want to check:
> 
>   http://www.FreeBSD.org/platforms/sparc.html
> or
>   http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/5.2.1R/hardware-sparc64.html
> or
>   http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/5.2.1R/installation-sparc64.html
> 
> for more details.

Tatung's latest products include a range of AMD Opteron and Xeon based
rack mount and blade servers, plus their UK site lists some "Tablet
PCs" based on Intel CPUs.  I admit I had never heard of a sparc clone
made by them. Seeing as the sparc based models listed on the
www.tsti.com site look kind of old hat nowadays, I don't thing it's
safe to assume 'Tatung' means 'Sparc Clone' any more...

Still, I'm sure the OP will clarify exactly what sort of machine he
has if he needs any further information.

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   26 The Paddocks
  Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
Tel: +44 1628 476614  Bucks., SL7 1TH UK


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Re: Upgrading Expat2 in FreeBSD 5.2.1

[Kent Stewart]

On Monday 21 June 2004 12:16 pm, Lonnie Santella wrote:
> In order to install latest ports of Apache1.3 and MySQL 4.20 - I
> received a system error informing me to upgrade expat2.
>
> So I run my CVSUP get all the latest ports, then run it again with
> just upgrading the BASE.
>
> Now I upgrade to expat2 (expat-1.95.7) which was successful according
> to pkg_info:
>
> However, now I can't start X - when I attempt to, I get a gray
> screen, a working mouse pointer, and a small message window that
> reads: "could not start KDEInit. Check your installation." There is
> only an "ok" button and when I click it, it goes back to text mode,
> with another error message which is repeated several times:
>
> "/libexec/ld.elf.so.1: Shared object "libexpat.so.4" not found"
>
> I've searched through threads and groups - no luck on this one. Why
> does this happen?  I've recreated the issue 4 times on different
> machines with fresh installs of FreeBSD 5.2.1.
>
> How do I upgrade expat2 without this problem?
>

You didn't read /usr/prots/UPDATING. There was an interface change and 
all of the ports that used expat2 had to be rebuilt. Read UPDATING and 
then do the -rf update.

Kent

> Thanks very much for your advice,
>
> Lonnie
>
>
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-- 
Kent Stewart
Richland, WA

http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html
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Upgrading Expat2 in FreeBSD 5.2.1

[Lonnie Santella]

In order to install latest ports of Apache1.3 and MySQL 4.20 - I received a 
system error informing me to upgrade expat2.

So I run my CVSUP get all the latest ports, then run it again with just 
upgrading the BASE.

Now I upgrade to expat2 (expat-1.95.7) which was successful according to 
pkg_info:

However, now I can't start X - when I attempt to, I get a gray screen, a 
working mouse pointer, and a small message window that reads: "could not 
start KDEInit. Check your installation." There is only an "ok" button and 
when I click it, it goes back to text mode, with another error message which 
is repeated several times:

"/libexec/ld.elf.so.1: Shared object "libexpat.so.4" not found"
I've searched through threads and groups - no luck on this one. Why does 
this happen?  I've recreated the issue 4 times on different machines with 
fresh installs of FreeBSD 5.2.1.

How do I upgrade expat2 without this problem?
Thanks very much for your advice,
Lonnie
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Re: missing ports; portsdb problem

[Kendall Gifford]

Bill Sawyer wrote:
Jim,
I had the same problem.  I think it was a tk port, if I recall correctly.
The only way I could fix it was to rm -drv /usr/ports & rm my refuse file, then cvsup 
again.  After that, portsdb -Uu ran properly (though it took forever).

I had the same problem recently since I was blocking all non-english
ports in my refuse file. Just as was mentioned above, I removed it.
But, I didn't bother to remove my recently cvsup'ed ports collection
(sans other lang). I just edited my refuse file to allow alternate
lang ports back in and re-cvsup'ed. Afterward, my portsdb -uU also
succeeded.
So, basically what I'm saying is that I'd try the above recommendation
but without rm-ing /usr/ports. This should save some download time.
Plus, if for some reason it doesn't work, you can always clean out your
ports dir later.
--
Kendall Gifford

WEB:   http://kendall.jedis.com/
EMAIL: REPLY TO NEWSGROUP

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WRITE_DMA UDMA ICRC errors with my ata drive(s)/controller

[Kendall Gifford]

Greetings. I recently upgraded my server from 4.9-RELEASE to
5.2.1-RELEASE and immediately started to get the following error
logged whenever there is significant disk activity:
ad0: WARNING - WRITE_DMA UDMA ICRC error (retrying request) LBA=137690696
ad0: FAILURE - WRITE_DMA status=51 
error=84 LBA=137690696

[there are slight, insignificant variations, of course]
Anyhow, the first thing I did was to install and run smartctl (part of
the smartmontools package) since both my drives are S.M.A.R.T. enabled.
Aside from having the same write dma errors in their internal logs, the
drives appear to be fine (all values are well above their threshold).
Also, all disk activity that sparked said errors always succeeded as all
copied files were uncorrupted.
So, I did a little searching online and found that besides the misc.
person having this problem and being told to check their drives or
cables or ide controllers, I came across the following two threads:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=20040409042611.GA68595_binary.net%40ns.sol.net&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfreebsd%2Bwrite_dma%2Budma%2Bicrc%2Berror%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D20040409042611.GA68595_binary.net%2540ns.sol.net%26rnum%3D1
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=20040414024308.GA6468%40binary.net&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfreebsd%2Bwrite_dma%2Budma%2Bicrc%2Berror%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D20040414024308.GA6468%2540binary.net%26rnum%3D4
The first thing I noted was that I am also using a board with the VIA
8235: [dmesg]
atapci0:  port 0xdc00-0xdc0f at device 17.1 
on pci0

And I also have fairly large drives, two Maxtor 120GB drives: [dmesg]
ad0: 117246MB  [238216/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA133
acd0: CDRW  at ata0-slave BIOSPIO
ad2: 117246MB  [238216/16/63] at ata1-master UDMA133
Also of note is that these two drives worked just fine in UDMA133 mode
in my 4.9-RELEASE system. Due to this and the newness of the two drives,
the motherboard, and the ATA133 round cables as well as having
everything check out in my S.M.A.R.T. test, and the fact that despite
these errors, the disk I/O transactions always seem to succeed (as far 
as I've been able to test) and the system otherwise functions normally
even with both drives in UDMA133 mode, I wonder if there is possibly
either some hardware bug with the VIA 8235 or some incompatibility
between the ata driver in 5.2.1-RELEASE and the VIA 8235 or if someone,
after reading my message and the two threads I linked to, has yet
another idea?

P.S. - Just as was described in the threads above, if I also put my
problem drive in PIO mode, I get no more UDMA ICRC errors.
P.P.S. - While, for reasons I've describe above, I suspect my hardware
is not at fault, I know that I certainly can't guarantee that this is
the case since I don't have the resources (a.k.a. extra hardware and
time) to swap parts around to verify, for sure, it isn't at fault.
--
Kendall Gifford

WEB:   http://kendall.jedis.com/
EMAIL: REPLY TO LIST

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problem installing 4.10, boot hangs after PLIP0

[White, Sean]

Help! (please...)

I am having a problem getting FreeBSD 4.10 installed on my machine.
Strangely, I have two almost identical boxes, and the problem exhibits
itself on one but not the other. Any help as to why this is happening
would be greatly appreciated. I have googled, searched list archives and
poured over the handbook multiple times, and the only error report I can
find that comes close (link below) does not seem to have been
resolved...
 
Synopsis:
 
ASUS P2B motherboard, PII-350, 256 Meg RAM, 8 Gig UDMA33 IDE drive and
ATAPI IDE CDROM, and 3COM 3c905 NIC. Booting from the 4.10 CDROM, I am
able to get into the kernel config and play with what drivers get
installed, but nothing I do there seems to help alleviate what happens
next. After exiting that, it starts to boot, but stops at the "PLIP0"
line and hangs indefinately. This list poster, although apparently using
different hardware and installing a different version of FreeBSD, seems
to be having the exact same issue, although the mailing list does not
seem to have provided him with an answer. Link:
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/htdig/freebsd-config/2003-June/07.h
tml
 
 
Detail:
 
Failing at the PLIP line led me to believe that perhaps (for what reason
I cant imagine) there might be a problem with the parallel port or
parallel driver, so disabling that driver in the kernel config, it then
starts to boot but stops and hangs after probing/config-ing the serial
ports (just like the poster above). In answer to the question at the end
of his post, according to the handbook's example boot, the next thing in
the boot sequence would seem to be probing for hard drives. So then I am
thinking that there is something wrong with the drive or controller or
the kernel probing for same. However, I am 99% sure that this drive and
controller are working fine, as this hard drive currently boots just
fine into Redhat 9 (which I am trying to replace). I can also
successfully boot this machine via CDROM into any of a host of other
"liveCD" distros such as Knoppix, SentryCD, Phlak, Smoothwall, etc. with
no problems whatsoever (I realize that these are all linux kernel
distros, so not a totally fair comparison...). So but the upshot is that
this box does not seem to have any hardware issues that prevent it from
booting to anything (via CDROM or hard drive) besides FreeBSD.
 
What is extra strange is that I also have a nearly identical box (only
difference is 128 Meg RAM instead of 256, and 3 x 3COM 3c905 NICs
instead of just one, otherwise, completely identical hardware), which
seems to work perfectly. It boots from the FreeBSD CDROM (same disc), I
dont even have to change or disable a single thing in the kernel config,
and it successfully boots, proceeds into sysinstall, and allows me to go
through the complete install process with no problems at all. I cant
imagine what is different between these two boxes and they have never
exhibited any hardware problems before.
 
So can anyone tell me what might be going on here, or what I might try
next to troubleshoot it? Any help or pointers would be appreciated. If
other logs or hardware info is required just ask, I will be glad to
provide. This hardware is all relatively old (I mean old as in
well-supported, not old as in crusty), so I wouldnt think there should
be issues with unsupported, bleeding-edge craziness. And the fact that
two nearly identical hardware configs are sporting different behavior
would seem to indicate an actual hardware failure on the part of the one
that doesnt work, but as I said, this box doesnt seem to have any
problems booting other OS's, so I am confused.
 
I will disclaim in advance that, as with almost all computer problems,
the issue is probably me doing something stupid or forgetting something.
 
Please reply via the list and/or my email address below.
 
Thanks!
Sean White
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 

 
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Re: Overly brief answers (was Re: Terminal Server)

[Bill Moran]

Kevin Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:27:44 -0400
> > Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Nico Meijer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Mike,
> > > >
> > > > > Can FreeBSD act like Windows Terminal Server, i.e. remote access,
> > > > > multiple sessions?
> > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > >
> > > I wanted to start a brief discussion about these kinds of answers to
> > > questions.
> > >
> > > I've been seeing this quite a bit lately.  I don't know if it's just one
> > > person, of if multiple folks have picked up on it.
> > >
> > > 
> > > This is not an answer to the question.  It does not answer the question
> > > and does not contribute to the OPs knowledge of FreeBSD, nor does it
> > > contribute to the list archives.  It's also a violation of the rule
> > > against "me too" answers as laid out in "How to Get the Best Results from
> > > FreeBSD-Questions".  It doesn't even serve to educate the OP on how to
> > > ask better questins.
> 
> With it understood that opinions vary, I disagree with yours in this case.
> The question was posed as a "yes or no" question, with no followup.
> Therefore, "yes" or "no" *precisely* answers it.
> 
> For all we know, the OP was merely asking to get a quick determination of
> what the solution set was.  I ask such questions of colleagues often, and
> am not interested in the particulars at that point.
> 
> > > First off, there are actually two questions hidden in the post: "Can
> > > FreeBSD act as a WTS?", and "can FreeBSD provide the same services as
> > > WTS?"  Is "yes" your answer to both of them?  Because, if it is, I'd like
> > > to know which software allows it to function as a WTS, since my searches
> > > have not found any such software.
> 
> The OP didn't say "as", s/he said "like", and then went on to list the
> criteria for "like".
> 
> > > This leads to the implied question of "what software provides the
> > > capability" which (despite not being voice, directly) is pretty obvious.
> > > You've totally ignored that question.  You could say that "technically,
> > > he didn't ask" but it boils down to just being rude.
> > > 
> 
> I don't generally answer implicit questions, and I don't believe that
> behavior is rude.  Quite the contrary - I believe it is *respectful* to
> grant the assumption that people mean what they say/ask.  To do otherwise
> scans to me as "I don't think you know what you're saying, so I'm going to
> assume I know better than you and treat you like an idiot.".
> 
> My favorite example is trying to extract a simple answer on how to enable
> telnetd on a given system, which is guaranteed to produce a firestorm of
> "don't use telnet" responses which have nothing to do with the question,
> overtly assume the OP is an idiot, and show little or no understanding
> about security postures in general or the OPs situation in specific.  But
> I digress ;).
> 
> In this case, I see nothing wrong with the response.  If the OP
> deliberately chose to frame a yes/no question, then s/he has their
> response.  If they then want to frame followup questions, there's nothing
> in the response to discourage them from doing so.  If we have to make an
> assumption, let's make the assumption that they know how to ask a
> question, rather than the dual assumption that they DON'T know how to ask
> a question, and that we can guess what their intent actually was.

Very valid points.  If I were going to look for someone to discuss the opposite
side of the coin on this, I would go to you first, as you've managed to
completely disagree with me in an intelligent fashion!  Bravo.

I don't have many arguments to place in response to your disagreement, so I'll
keep my counter-opinions short:
1) I prefer to err on the side of too much information than to err on the side
   of not enough.  This addresses a lot of your points, but is only a matter
   of personal preference and therefore not anything to do with official list
   policy or anything.  But it explains a lot of our difference of opinion.
2) This "yes" email is only one of several I've seen over the last few weeks.
   I'm not going to take the time to search them out, but I was starting to
   wonder if an "air of smart-assedness" was infecting the list, I supposed it's
   possible that I've been infected with something, though.
3) I posted the original "brief answer" email to promote discussion, and voice
   my own opinion.  I find it refreshing to know that people who are posting
   short answers don't do it mindlessly.  Even if I don't agree with it, at
   least it has a thought-out reason.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: What's the best possible email failover solution

[Andy Harrison]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:20:06 -0400, Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Hey,
> 
> I know questions like this get asked a lot, but I'm going to be really specific.
> 
> I know how to set up failover with a backup MX.  That's not what I'm looking
> for.  We have a cyrus-imap server with lots of users connecting via IMAP,
> while everything gets backed up, this only happens once a night.  Thus, if the
> server were to go up in smoke right before the backup occurred, we'd lose
> something like 23 hours worth of emails.
> 
> Does anyone have a solution to provide real-time mirroring of IMAP folders?
> I don't mind manual intervention to get the thing running again, I just want
> to ensure that if an email is received, it's on both machines and can't get
> lost.  Is there a way to get real-time replication of cyrus (I'm no cyrus
> guru, another fellow set this up)
> 
> I'm not tied to Cyrus either, if there's another solution, I'd be happy to
> implement it.
> 
> I have an idea ... by using Dovecot with PostgreSQL storing the actual mail
> folders, with Slony installed to provide real-time replication of the Postgres
> database ... I don't know if Dovecot is able to store the actual mail folders
> in Postgres yet, though ... Anyone?


Real time mirroring would be a long way to go for very little
return.  You'd be much better off with some sort of NAS in a raid
config, even if it were home grown, to store the spools.  Then you can
have as many front-ends as you want, just auth with LDAP or something.


-- 
Andy Harrison
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iSCSI support in FreeBSD?

[Forrest Aldrich]

Is there planned iSCSI support in FreeBSD 4 or 5.

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RE: Spamassassin

[Rajamani, Rajarajan (Rajarajan)]

I had a quick question regarding this.
If I use sa-learn as root, does it learn just
for the root account or on a system wide basis.

Thanks

RR


-Original Message-
From: Rafi Jacoby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 1:38 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Spamassassin


> Hi,
>
> I just converted my RedHat box to BSD 5.2.1 and installed Spamassassin
> with
> Sendmail and Procmail.  This is the same configuration I had on the RedHat
> machine, but Spamassassin seems to not catch as much spam as it did
> before.
> I get so much more junk in my inbox and they only get one or two hits with
> Spamassassin.
>
> Anybody have any ideas on what may be happening?

If you were using the Bayes functionality, it won't kick in till you feed
it 250 or 300 spams (don't remember #).

That definitely made a big difference for me.
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error in jdk14 and lang/php4

[Tim Kellers]

from lang/php4:

/usr/bin/ld: warning: libSM.so.6, needed by /usr/local/lib/libungif.so,
not foun
d (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
/usr/bin/ld: warning: libICE.so.6, needed by /usr/local/lib/libungif.so,
not fou
nd (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
/usr/bin/ld: warning: libX11.so.6, needed by /usr/local/lib/libungif.so,
not fou
nd (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
/usr/local/lib/libungif.so: undefined reference to `XGetWindowAttributes'
/usr/local/lib/libungif.so: undefined reference to `XGetImage'
/usr/local/lib/libungif.so: undefined reference to `XQueryColors'
*** Error code 1

When I check for the missing lib files:

> locate libSM.so.6
/usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6
> ls -la /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  36988 Jun 20 23:26 /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6
>

All of the referenced "not found" files are in /usr/X11R6/lib/

I've deleted and rebuilt XFree86 libraries without success and I've even

portupgrade -Rf XFee86*

The error remains.  Any help or pointers to dicumentation regarding the
error would be appreciated.

> uname -a
FreeBSD www.smsdesign.org 5.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT #0: Sun Jun 20
01:20:1
5 EDT 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/ION  i386


Tim Kellers
CPE/NJIT

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Re: Terminal Server

[David Fleck]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, Mike Miocevich wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Can FreeBSD act like Windows Terminal Server, i.e. remote access,
> multiple sessions?

Rather than asking a fairly loose and undefined question ('is software X
like software Y?'), perhaps you would be better served if you specified
more precisely what it is you want to be able to do.

At some levels, FreeBSD may be very like WTS - at other levels, it will be
very different.  Whether or not it will be useful to you depends on what
you want to do with it.

--
David Fleck
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: missing ports; portsdb problem

[Bill Sawyer]

Jim,

I had the same problem.  I think it was a tk port, if I recall correctly.

The only way I could fix it was to rm -drv /usr/ports & rm my refuse file, then cvsup 
again.  After that, portsdb -Uu ran properly (though it took forever).

Bill Sawyer
Information Systems
Six Flags St. Louis
(636) 938-5300 x. 231

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Re: FreeBSD weakness

[hoe-waa]

On 2004-06-21 01:42, Lloyd Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'll repeat this so there is no misunderstanding. The people here have
> been great in their response to help! But there is also no getting
> around the fact that I am much older (54) and less able to absorb new
> ideas as fast

ALoha Lloyd

Age and cunning will beat youth and speed most of the time. (IIRC) ;o)


I am 57 and installed my first linux distro about a year ago. Sice then I have
tried 5 different linux distros and was unsatisfied with each for various reasons.
Mostly because I didn't have total control over what is being installed from the iso
or from the packages. Gentoo does better than most by emulating FBSD.

In January I installed FreeBSD for the first time. Actually, I installed it about a 
dozen
times for the first time. I read the handbook and lurked on forums and subscribed to
the mailing lists (-newbies & -questions). 

I kept acquiring old systems and improving them. I now have FBSD installed on 4 
frankenputers
and my laptop. I still have so much to learn and to do. I have a lot planned and 
will try
to do it myself with the aid of books/howtos and lurking. I also know that when I am
stuck, I can send to -questions and get quality (and quantity) answers.


I agree with you. The people on this list and their responses are fantastic! I for one 
hope you stick with it. Keep your mind active and the ability to absorb will not 
diminish.

Robert

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Re: Overly brief answers (was Re: Terminal Server)

[Kevin Stevens]

> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:27:44 -0400
> Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Nico Meijer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Mike,
> > >
> > > > Can FreeBSD act like Windows Terminal Server, i.e. remote access,
> > > > multiple sessions?
> > >
> > > Yes.
> >
> > I wanted to start a brief discussion about these kinds of answers to
> > questions.
> >
> > I've been seeing this quite a bit lately.  I don't know if it's just one
> > person, of if multiple folks have picked up on it.
> >
> > 
> > This is not an answer to the question.  It does not answer the question
> > and does not contribute to the OPs knowledge of FreeBSD, nor does it
> > contribute to the list archives.  It's also a violation of the rule
> > against "me too" answers as laid out in "How to Get the Best Results from
> > FreeBSD-Questions".  It doesn't even serve to educate the OP on how to
> > ask better questins.

With it understood that opinions vary, I disagree with yours in this case.
The question was posed as a "yes or no" question, with no followup.
Therefore, "yes" or "no" *precisely* answers it.

For all we know, the OP was merely asking to get a quick determination of
what the solution set was.  I ask such questions of colleagues often, and
am not interested in the particulars at that point.

> > First off, there are actually two questions hidden in the post: "Can
> > FreeBSD act as a WTS?", and "can FreeBSD provide the same services as
> > WTS?"  Is "yes" your answer to both of them?  Because, if it is, I'd like
> > to know which software allows it to function as a WTS, since my searches
> > have not found any such software.

The OP didn't say "as", s/he said "like", and then went on to list the
criteria for "like".

> > This leads to the implied question of "what software provides the
> > capability" which (despite not being voice, directly) is pretty obvious.
> > You've totally ignored that question.  You could say that "technically,
> > he didn't ask" but it boils down to just being rude.
> > 

I don't generally answer implicit questions, and I don't believe that
behavior is rude.  Quite the contrary - I believe it is *respectful* to
grant the assumption that people mean what they say/ask.  To do otherwise
scans to me as "I don't think you know what you're saying, so I'm going to
assume I know better than you and treat you like an idiot.".

My favorite example is trying to extract a simple answer on how to enable
telnetd on a given system, which is guaranteed to produce a firestorm of
"don't use telnet" responses which have nothing to do with the question,
overtly assume the OP is an idiot, and show little or no understanding
about security postures in general or the OPs situation in specific.  But
I digress ;).

In this case, I see nothing wrong with the response.  If the OP
deliberately chose to frame a yes/no question, then s/he has their
response.  If they then want to frame followup questions, there's nothing
in the response to discourage them from doing so.  If we have to make an
assumption, let's make the assumption that they know how to ask a
question, rather than the dual assumption that they DON'T know how to ask
a question, and that we can guess what their intent actually was.

KeS
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missing ports; portsdb problem

[Jim Arnold]

I'm missing a few ports collections such as Japanese
and Russian. Now when I try to run portsdb -Uu after
CVSUPing the ports collection I get an error of a
missing japanese port. The strange thing is that my
cvsupfile is set to fetch "ports-all." Why is it not
pulling in the missing ports? I don't have a refuse
file set.



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Re: LiveCD

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 11:14, Remko Lodder wrote:
> 
> > When i was at the supermarket there was a line 298, there was indeed an 
> > error, well a pretty error, a nice young lady who was in the way, not 
> > that i hated that but...
> 
> Those pretty errors are always the most forgivable ones
> 
> > 
> > No really, where does that error occur? when starting up? after what 
> > messages does it occur? What version are you running, when did you take 
> > it of the site etc?
> 
> cd /usr/local/livecd/ 
> ./livecd.sh 
> ./livecd.sh: 298: Syntax Error: "then" unexpected
> 
> I've tried the livecd out of ports and off the project site with the
> same results.

Well, I would think the first thing to do would be to go and look
at line 298 in the /usr/local/livecd/livecd.sh script and see what
it looks like.   Maybe something got mangled when it was
downloaded on configured.vi will do it nicely.

If there is some script flow control - sounds like there is, you might 
have to work out how it got to that line in the script and why it
thinks it needs a then statement.

jerry

> -- 
> Ray Seals <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
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Re: Spamassassin

[Rafi Jacoby]

> Hi,
>
> I just converted my RedHat box to BSD 5.2.1 and installed Spamassassin
> with
> Sendmail and Procmail.  This is the same configuration I had on the RedHat
> machine, but Spamassassin seems to not catch as much spam as it did
> before.
> I get so much more junk in my inbox and they only get one or two hits with
> Spamassassin.
>
> Anybody have any ideas on what may be happening?

If you were using the Bayes functionality, it won't kick in till you feed
it 250 or 300 spams (don't remember #).

That definitely made a big difference for me.
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Re: LiveCD

[Remko Lodder]

Ray Seals wrote:
On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 11:14, Remko Lodder wrote:

When i was at the supermarket there was a line 298, there was indeed an 
error, well a pretty error, a nice young lady who was in the way, not 
that i hated that but...

Those pretty errors are always the most forgivable ones

No really, where does that error occur? when starting up? after what 
messages does it occur? What version are you running, when did you take 
it of the site etc?

cd /usr/local/livecd/ 
./livecd.sh 
./livecd.sh: 298: Syntax Error: "then" unexpected
I've tried the livecd out of ports and off the project site with the
same results.

Hey Ray,
Welkom Ebrandi (Maintainer of LiveCD)
Indeed, nice girls are fine ;)
I installed the scripts, and it seems that you need to change elsif then 
to else, since elsif want to follow a if like statement which is not 
included, nor an else below that phrase is used

When i changed the 2 lines that have those 2 lines, it seems to work..
I included the maintainer that with a fresh install i get the line 305 
and 581 marked as bogus, having elsif then statements, with no if 
option, changing them to else make it do it ' s magic.

Cheers
--
Kind regards,
Remko Lodder   |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reporter DSINet|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Projectleader Mostly-Harmless  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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questions on UFS2 usage and snapshots

[Joe Schmoe]

Hi - a few questions about UFS2:
 
1. Is it dangerous to mount all 20 possible filesystem snapshots and _leave them 
mounted_ to use at any time ?  What about automatically mounting all 20 snapshots at 
boot time ?
 
2. Related to the first question, it seems like I am getting space out of nowhere ... 
that is, if I fill up a drive, then make a snapshot, then erase the drive and fill it 
again, then make another snapshot ... and do this 20 times, AND THEN mount all 20 
snapshots, it seems like I now have 20x as much disk space as before (granted, most of 
it is read-only) ... it seems like I am getting something for nothing.  What am I 
missing here ?  What tradeoffs do I begin to make as I mount up more and more 
snapshots and get more and more browsable space ?
 
3. When I mount a snapshot, as described in the man page, but then later mount -uw the 
snapshot ( to make that a writeable mount) and, say, touch a file or create a file in 
the mounted snapshot ... what exactly am I doing ?  Have I corrupted the snapshot ?  
Is it still usable as a snapshot ?  Where does this space end up being used at if I 
write a file in a write-enabled mounted snapshot ?
 
4. This is not related to snapshots, but is a UFS2 question ... I see that if I am 
doing filesystem activity, and before I can sync the disks, my machine crashes ... the 
machine sort of goes back in time when it reboots - the files or directories I had 
created no longer exist when it reboots.   This is expected, I suppose, and makes 
sense.  However, it seems like I have also seen the following behavior:
 
write file A
write file B
crash
file A exists, but B does not
write file B
crash
BOTH file A and B _no longer exist_
 
Is this possible ?  Have I really seen that behavior, or am I remembering it wrong ?  
I swear that I have seen something like this happen ... if this is possible, can 
someone explain how ?  It seems like it shouldn't be possible...
 
Thanks!


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Re: Spamassassin

[Remko Lodder]

Chris Sechiatano wrote:
Hi,
I just converted my RedHat box to BSD 5.2.1 and installed Spamassassin with
Sendmail and Procmail.  This is the same configuration I had on the RedHat
machine, but Spamassassin seems to not catch as much spam as it did before.
I get so much more junk in my inbox and they only get one or two hits with
Spamassassin.  

Anybody have any ideas on what may be happening?
Hi,
Spammers get more smart... My SA is well trained and still i recieve a 
couple of spam messages a day (50/50 almost)
But you can train SA by using sa-learn.. and use the bayesian filtering...

Did you use that on RedHat as well?
--
Kind regards,
Remko Lodder   |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reporter DSINet|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Projectleader Mostly-Harmless  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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What's the best possible email failover solution

[Bill Moran]

Hey,

I know questions like this get asked a lot, but I'm going to be really specific.

I know how to set up failover with a backup MX.  That's not what I'm looking
for.  We have a cyrus-imap server with lots of users connecting via IMAP,
while everything gets backed up, this only happens once a night.  Thus, if the
server were to go up in smoke right before the backup occurred, we'd lose
something like 23 hours worth of emails.

Does anyone have a solution to provide real-time mirroring of IMAP folders?
I don't mind manual intervention to get the thing running again, I just want
to ensure that if an email is received, it's on both machines and can't get
lost.  Is there a way to get real-time replication of cyrus (I'm no cyrus
guru, another fellow set this up)

I'm not tied to Cyrus either, if there's another solution, I'd be happy to
implement it.

I have an idea ... by using Dovecot with PostgreSQL storing the actual mail
folders, with Slony installed to provide real-time replication of the Postgres
database ... I don't know if Dovecot is able to store the actual mail folders
in Postgres yet, though ... Anyone?

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: LiveCD

[Ray Seals]

On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 11:14, Remko Lodder wrote:

> When i was at the supermarket there was a line 298, there was indeed an 
> error, well a pretty error, a nice young lady who was in the way, not 
> that i hated that but...

Those pretty errors are always the most forgivable ones

> 
> No really, where does that error occur? when starting up? after what 
> messages does it occur? What version are you running, when did you take 
> it of the site etc?

cd /usr/local/livecd/ 
./livecd.sh 
./livecd.sh: 298: Syntax Error: "then" unexpected

I've tried the livecd out of ports and off the project site with the
same results.



-- 
Ray Seals <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: perl-tk no longer working

[Bill Campbell]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2004, Heinrich Rebehn wrote:
>Hi list,
>
>I rolled my own perl-tk script for adding/removing users on our cluster 
>and it has been running fine for some years now.
>But when i wanted to use it today, it died with:

My SWAG is that you've updated perl recently, but not updated the perl::Tk
modules.  Running two versions of perl on the same machine is possible (we
do it under the OpenPKG.org packagement system all the time), but can
easily lead to problems like this.

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] [~] # usrmgr/usrmgr.pl
>[the usual messages about unused variables]
>X Error of failed request:  BadAtom (invalid Atom parameter)
>  Major opcode of failed request:  18 (X_ChangeProperty)
>  Atom id in failed request:  0x1a6
>  Serial number of failed request:  12
>  Current serial number in output stream:  15
>
>I have no clue what this could be. Other X11 apps run fine. I am logged 
>in via ssh -X.
>Versions:
>FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE-p8
>p5-Tk-804.027
>perl-5.6.1_15   Practical Extraction and Report Language
>perl-5.8.4  Practical Extraction and Report Language
>
>2 versions of perl? Is this ok?
>
>Does anyone have an idea?
>
>Regards,
>   Heinrich
>-- 
>
>Heinrich Rebehn
>
>University of Bremen
>Physics / Electrical and Electronics Engineering
>- Department of Telecommunications -
>
>Phone : +49/421/218-4664
>Fax   :-3341
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>

-- 
Bill
--
INTERNET:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
UUCP:   camco!bill  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
FAX:(206) 232-9186  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
URL: http://www.celestial.com/

``During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes
a revolutionary act.''  --George Orwell
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Spamassassin

[Chris Sechiatano]

Hi,

I just converted my RedHat box to BSD 5.2.1 and installed Spamassassin with
Sendmail and Procmail.  This is the same configuration I had on the RedHat
machine, but Spamassassin seems to not catch as much spam as it did before.
I get so much more junk in my inbox and they only get one or two hits with
Spamassassin.  

Anybody have any ideas on what may be happening?

-- 
Chris Sechiatano
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.chris-s.com

PGP Key 0x0021EFA0

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Re: package managment

[Bill Moran]

arden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> hi all 
> 
> I'm just getting to know my way round BSD now Ive got my box running and
> am happy with it i want to make it more useful.
> 
> on my Linux boxes i set up ftp sources of applications (most of which i
> now keep a local copy.) and then just ask the package management tool to
> install it as long as all the deps are in my list it then dose it all
> for me.
> 
> I'm guessing this is similar in bsd ?

Similar, but not quite the same.  You have ports an packages.  Ports are config
files that tell FreeBSD what needs done to install a particular software (such
as where to download it, what dependencies are required, and what commands
to run to compile and install it.)  Packages are build from ports (by doing
"make package" instead of "make install")

Thus the paradigm is a little different in FreeBSD than in most Linux distros.

A good place to pick up a lot about this:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports.html

> 1st question is, is there a list somewhere of available sites 

Each individual port has a list of download sites in its Makefile.  This
relieves the FreeBSD servers of the burdon of having to have _everything_
available.

I don't know, offhand, where the list of package download sites for the
various pkg_* command is, but it's somewhere ;)

> 2nd is how do i point my box at them 

They're already configured.

> 3rd what is the command to tell it to install them 

You want to install the portupgrade port.
cd /usr/ports/sysutils/portupgrade && make install clean

Then, read the man page for portupgrade.  I recommend skipping down past all
the boring details and reading the examples _first_, then come back earlier
in the man page to read what all the specific options do.

Note that portupgrade gives you two specific options for upgrading: using a
package to upgrade, or upgrading from the ports collection.  It depends on
what options you give it.  Software installed from ports is normally newer,
while installing from packages goes faster because you don't have to wait
for the software to compile.

HTH.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Command 'w' gives no user output

[Martin Sommerhein]

$ w
 6:29pm  up  9:41, 0 users, load averages: 0,01 0,02 0,00
USER TTY  FROM  LOGIN@  IDLE WHAT

This is on a recently upgraded 4.10-STABLE machine.  Just after the
upgrade the command worked fine, but today it suddenly started to give
no user output.  Anyone have any clue of what the cause may be and how
to fix it?

Or do I have a cracker on my system?

The other recently upgraded 4.10-STABLE machines work fine (same make
world).

Thanks,
Martin
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perl-tk no longer working

[Heinrich Rebehn]

Hi list,
I rolled my own perl-tk script for adding/removing users on our cluster 
and it has been running fine for some years now.
But when i wanted to use it today, it died with:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] [~] # usrmgr/usrmgr.pl
[the usual messages about unused variables]
X Error of failed request:  BadAtom (invalid Atom parameter)
  Major opcode of failed request:  18 (X_ChangeProperty)
  Atom id in failed request:  0x1a6
  Serial number of failed request:  12
  Current serial number in output stream:  15
I have no clue what this could be. Other X11 apps run fine. I am logged 
in via ssh -X.
Versions:
FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE-p8
p5-Tk-804.027
perl-5.6.1_15   Practical Extraction and Report Language
perl-5.8.4  Practical Extraction and Report Language

2 versions of perl? Is this ok?
Does anyone have an idea?
Regards,
Heinrich
--
Heinrich Rebehn
University of Bremen
Physics / Electrical and Electronics Engineering
- Department of Telecommunications -
Phone : +49/421/218-4664
Fax   :-3341
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Re: Installing FreeBSD on Sparc Ultra II clone

[Garance A Drosihn]

At 5:02 PM +0100 6/21/04, Matthew Seaman wrote:
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 10:41:26AM -0500, Hank Allen wrote:
 > I would like to get some info on installing FreeBSD by booting
 > with floppies and using ftp to download on a Tatung machine.
 > I'm not sure where to get the disk images. Any help would be
 > greatly appreciated.
Either here:
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/5.2.1-RELEASE/floppies/
or here:
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.10-RELEASE/floppies/
It would be an interesting "Sparc Ultra II" clone which could
boot up off of i386 floppies...
I do not know of FreeBSD/SPARC64 would run on that clone.  You
might want to check:
  http://www.FreeBSD.org/platforms/sparc.html
or
  http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/5.2.1R/hardware-sparc64.html
or
  http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/5.2.1R/installation-sparc64.html
for more details.
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn=   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Programmer   or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: LiveCD

[Remko Lodder]

Ray Seals wrote:
Anyone had any experience with LiveCD?  I'm trying to run it and I get
an error about an expected "then" at line 298.
When i was at the supermarket there was a line 298, there was indeed an 
error, well a pretty error, a nice young lady who was in the way, not 
that i hated that but...

No really, where does that error occur? when starting up? after what 
messages does it occur? What version are you running, when did you take 
it of the site etc?

Cheers!
p.s the girl was really nice , and actually did exist, only on another 
line ;)
--
Kind regards,

Remko Lodder   |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reporter DSINet|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Projectleader Mostly-Harmless  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: CURRENT does not build (annotate.texi) CONFIRMED

[Axel S . Gruner]

Hi,
Am 21.06.2004 um 15:51 schrieb Jorn Argelo:
Umm, guys, I don't want to be rude, but why don't mail it to the 
CURRENT folks? I mean, that's what the mailing list is for :)
Hehe, ok, you are right, my fault.
asg
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Re: Installing FreeBSD on Sparc Ultra II clone

[Matthew Seaman]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 10:41:26AM -0500, Hank Allen wrote:
> I would like to get some info on installing FreeBSD by booting with floppies and 
> using ftp to download on a Tatung machine. I'm not sure where to get the disk 
> images. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Either here:

ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/5.2.1-RELEASE/floppies/

or here:

ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.10-RELEASE/floppies/

depending on which release you want to install.  Instructions are here:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-pre.html

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   26 The Paddocks
  Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
Tel: +44 1628 476614  Bucks., SL7 1TH UK


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Re: Regarding FreeBSD proc entries

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Jun 21), ravi said:
> Is it possible to create a new proc entry under /proc ? If yes, then
> how to do that ? Please tell me the relevant documents for this .

For things not directly related to processes, take a look at sysctls
instead.  Grep for SYSCTL_ in the kernel source for examples.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: USB problems after upgrading from 4.9 to 4.10

[Matthew Seaman]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 12:31:02PM -0300, Joey Mingrone wrote:

> After an upgrade from 4.9 to 4.10 the following messages appear during bootup:
> 
> uhci0:  port 0x9800-0x981f irq 5 at device 17.2 on 
> pci0
> usb0:  on uhci0
> usb0: USB revision 1.0
> uhub0: VIA UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
> uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
> uhub0: port error, restarting port 1
> uhub0: port error, giving up port 1
> uhub0: port error, restarting port 2
> uhub0: port error, giving up port 2
> uhci1:  port 0x9400-0x941f irq 5 at device 17.3 on 
> pci0
> usb1:  on uhci1
> usb1: USB revision 1.0
> uhub1: VIA UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
> uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
> uhub1: port error, restarting port 1
> uhub1: port error, giving up port 1
> uhub1: port error, restarting port 2
> uhub1: port error, giving up port 2
> uhci2:  port 0x9000-0x901f irq 5 at device 17.4 on 
> pci0
> usb2:  on uhci2
> usb2: USB revision 1.0
> uhub2: VIA UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
> uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
> uhub2: port error, restarting port 1
> uhub2: port error, giving up port 1
> uhub2: port error, restarting port 2
> uhub2: port error, giving up port 2
> orm0:  at iomem 0xcc000-0xc on isa0
> 

I believe this is actually a bug in 4.10-RELEASE.  It was fixed in
4.10-STABLE a week or so ago.  As far as I know. it's actually
harmless -- the USB hubs work OK despite the alarming output.

See:


http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/dev/usb/uhub.c?rev=1.21.2.9&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&sortby=date&only_with_tag=RELENG_4

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   26 The Paddocks
  Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
Tel: +44 1628 476614  Bucks., SL7 1TH UK


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LiveCD

[Ray Seals]

Anyone had any experience with LiveCD?  I'm trying to run it and I get
an error about an expected "then" at line 298.
-- 
Ray Seals <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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