Re: X client without X server
Hi, > Just my 2¢ worth on this. Sure, one always wants to keep overhead low. But > the days of limited RAM, small hard drives, etc...are long since behind us. My concern is when portupgrade -a. The more ports on the system, the more likely the upgrade will fail. So I'd prefer to have as little unused ports as possible. Not to mention that security wise, having unused ports sitting there is not too good. Best regards, Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
On 07/03/13 16:26, Bill Tillman wrote: [Vast snip.] Just my 2¢ worth on this. Sure, one always wants to keep overhead > low. But the days of limited RAM, small hard drives, etc...are long > since behind us. I remember in 1994 when and IT consultant came in > and built a Novell server for us with a whopping 1 GB hard drive. > And back then how we thought with a 1 GB hard drive we'd never run > out of space. Well these days one could easily run out of space with > such a small hard drive. But with today's systems having 2 or 3 TB > drives and GB's of RAM, something as trivial as X-Server should not > be a problem. If you don't need it, don't run it. But to worry about > the space it takes up is kind of a moot point these days. And like > some of the other replies mentioned, xterm may not require it, but > one of xterm's dependencies may. I run Asterisk routinely on my > systems and I'm always amazed at how installing one port requires > no less than 38 other ports to be installed as well. There's another reason beside space for not wanting to install a port unless it's definitely needed, especially on any machine that is world facing - security. If a port is installed but unused it might aid an attacker who gets part way into a system to get further privileges. If it's not installed it definitely can't be used for that. I apply the same principle to the base system on world visible servers - if it's not used and there's a src.conf option to remove it, it gets removed. As the old sysadmin joke goes: "Yes, I'm paranoid. But am I paranoid enough?" -- In the dungeons of Mordor, Sauron bred Orcs with LOLcats to create a new race of servants. Called Uruk-Oh-Hai in the Black Speech, they were cruel and delighted in torturing spelling and grammar. _Lord of the Rings 2.0, the Web Edition_ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Tillman Subject: Re: X client without X server xterm may not require it [xorg-server], but one of xterm's dependencies may. This is simply not true. xterm does not require xorg-server. I know because for years I've been using a setup where the X server and the clients live on different computers. There is certainly no xorg-server installed on the clients computer. So, if the OP says that in his setup xterm requires xorg-server, then something is clearly wrong with that setup and it's a good idea to fix it. This might be but a simptom of a larger problem, who knows. If it were me, I'd certainly want to get to the bottom of this. Anton ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
Hello, It is usually not about disk space (though that is also not exactly free and unlimited either), but about compilation/update delays, ease of management, additional security risks, additional ways to fail for the system as a whole, etc. Not to mention simple elegance. Best wishes Eugene -Original Message- From: Bill Tillman Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:26 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: X client without X server Just my 2¢ worth on this. Sure, one always wants to keep overhead low. But the days of limited RAM, small hard drives, etc...are long since behind us. I remember in 1994 when and IT consultant came in and built a Novell server for us with a whopping 1 GB hard drive. And back then how we thought with a 1 GB hard drive we'd never run out of space. Well these days one could easily run out of space with such a small hard drive. But with today's systems having 2 or 3 TB drives and GB's of RAM, something as trivial as X-Server should not be a problem. If you don't need it, don't run it. But to worry about the space it takes up is kind of a moot point these days. And like some of the other replies mentioned, xterm may not require it, but one of xterm's dependencies may. I run Asterisk routinely on my systems and I'm always amazed at how installing one port requires no less than 38 other ports to be installed as well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
On Jul 2, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Olivier Nicole wrote: > Hi, > > Is there a way to install an X client without automatically install an > X server? > > On all my systems, I throw xterm and emacs, as the primary tools I use > for management, but the display is always remote, I never, ever, run X > on the machine, but still it install X server, fonts and a lot of > useless junk like xcalc. > If you never run emacs in X11 mode, but instead run emacs within the XTerm, might I suggest that you look into the "emacs-nox11" package (/usr/ports/editors/emacs-nox11). This should cut down on the number of dependencies significantly, but if you run emacs directly as an X11 program, then "emacs-nox11" will not provide that functionality -- so this suggestion is [again] only helpful if you're used to just running emacs in the XTerm. On the vim side of things, I tend to shoot for "vim-lite" instead of "vim". Same reason, fewer dependencies. > Is there a way to install xterm and only the libraries that are needed > to run xterm? > You could always go the binary package route. force-install the binary package, then do an "ldd" on xterm to find out what's missing. Then compare what's missing to the packing-list's @pkgdep entries (/var/db/pkg/xterm*/+CONTENTS for non-pkgng systems; for pkgng systems, [guessing] pkg info -dx xterm) -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
From: Anton Shterenlikht To: me...@bristol.ac.uk; olivier2...@gmail.com Cc: o...@cs.ait.ac.th; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:17 AM Subject: Re: X client without X server From olivier2...@gmail.com Wed Jul 3 13:09:25 2013 Anton, On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 10:55:48 +0700 (ICT) > From: Olivier Nicole > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: X client without X server > > Hi, > > Is there a way to install an X client without automatically install an > X server? > > On all my systems, I throw xterm and emacs, as the primary tools I use > for management, but the display is always remote, I never, ever, run X > on the machine, but still it install X server, fonts and a lot of > useless junk like xcalc. > > Is there a way to install xterm and only the libraries that are needed > to run xterm? > > TIA, > > Olivier > > I've been doing this for years. > What's the problem? > > Just install xterm, or whatever you need. > All the necessary libs will be pulled in, e.g.: > > $ pkg info -xd xterm > xterm-293: > xproto-7.0.24 > xextproto-7.2.1 > renderproto-0.11.1 > printproto-1.0.5 > libxcb-1.9.1 > libXrender-0.9.8 > libXpm-3.5.10 > libXp-1.0.2,1 > libXext-1.3.2,1 > libXdmcp-1.1.1 > libXau-1.0.8 > libX11-1.6.0,1 > libSM-1.2.1,1 > libICE-1.0.8,1 > kbproto-1.0.6 > libXt-1.1.4,1 > libXmu-1.1.1,1 > libXaw-1.0.11,2 > libXft-2.3.1 > fontconfig-2.9.0,1 > expat-2.0.1_2 > freetype2-2.4.12_1 > pkgconf-0.9.2_1 > pcre-8.33 > libpthread-stubs-0.3_3 > > Obviously xterm does not depend on xorg-server. But for some reason, xorg-server gets installed too. And tons of fonts, and ... It could be emacs, or cvsup, these are the 3 X Window clients I install. I don't use emacs, but you can quickly check, prior to installing, what other ports will be required, e.g. do make -C /usr/ports/ search name=emacs-24 You might be familiar with this already, but if not, the B-deps are those ports which are required to build your port, and R-deps are required to run your port. For emacs-24, both the default and the devel branches, you see that they depend on xorg-fonts-truetype-7.7_1 and lots of other libs, but not on xorg-server. net/cvsup has a lot fewer dependencies, again no xorg-server. In general X server is only required by the ports running on the graphical side - screen, mouse, kbd, etc., e.g.: $ pkg info -xr xorg-server xorg-server-1.7.7_8,1: xf86-input-keyboard-1.7.0 xf86-input-mouse-1.9.0 xf86-video-vesa-2.3.2 nvidia-driver-310.44_1 $ So I'd say something is wrong with your installation if xorg-server is being pulled in when you build emacs, xterm or cvsup. Post the output from "pkg info -aq". Maybe this will give us a hint. Anton ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" Just my 2¢ worth on this. Sure, one always wants to keep overhead low. But the days of limited RAM, small hard drives, etc...are long since behind us. I remember in 1994 when and IT consultant came in and built a Novell server for us with a whopping 1 GB hard drive. And back then how we thought with a 1 GB hard drive we'd never run out of space. Well these days one could easily run out of space with such a small hard drive. But with today's systems having 2 or 3 TB drives and GB's of RAM, something as trivial as X-Server should not be a problem. If you don't need it, don't run it. But to worry about the space it takes up is kind of a moot point these days. And like some of the other replies mentioned, xterm may not require it, but one of xterm's dependencies may. I run Asterisk routinely on my systems and I'm always amazed at how installing one port requires no less than 38 other ports to be installed as well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
From olivier2...@gmail.com Wed Jul 3 13:09:25 2013 Anton, On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 10:55:48 +0700 (ICT) > From: Olivier Nicole > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: X client without X server > > Hi, > > Is there a way to install an X client without automatically install an > X server? > > On all my systems, I throw xterm and emacs, as the primary tools I use > for management, but the display is always remote, I never, ever, run X > on the machine, but still it install X server, fonts and a lot of > useless junk like xcalc. > > Is there a way to install xterm and only the libraries that are needed > to run xterm? > > TIA, > > Olivier > > I've been doing this for years. > What's the problem? > > Just install xterm, or whatever you need. > All the necessary libs will be pulled in, e.g.: > > $ pkg info -xd xterm > xterm-293: > xproto-7.0.24 > xextproto-7.2.1 > renderproto-0.11.1 > printproto-1.0.5 > libxcb-1.9.1 > libXrender-0.9.8 > libXpm-3.5.10 > libXp-1.0.2,1 > libXext-1.3.2,1 > libXdmcp-1.1.1 > libXau-1.0.8 > libX11-1.6.0,1 > libSM-1.2.1,1 > libICE-1.0.8,1 > kbproto-1.0.6 > libXt-1.1.4,1 > libXmu-1.1.1,1 > libXaw-1.0.11,2 > libXft-2.3.1 > fontconfig-2.9.0,1 > expat-2.0.1_2 > freetype2-2.4.12_1 > pkgconf-0.9.2_1 > pcre-8.33 > libpthread-stubs-0.3_3 > > Obviously xterm does not depend on xorg-server. But for some reason, xorg-server gets installed too. And tons of fonts, and ... It could be emacs, or cvsup, these are the 3 X Window clients I install. I don't use emacs, but you can quickly check, prior to installing, what other ports will be required, e.g. do make -C /usr/ports/ search name=emacs-24 You might be familiar with this already, but if not, the B-deps are those ports which are required to build your port, and R-deps are required to run your port. For emacs-24, both the default and the devel branches, you see that they depend on xorg-fonts-truetype-7.7_1 and lots of other libs, but not on xorg-server. net/cvsup has a lot fewer dependencies, again no xorg-server. In general X server is only required by the ports running on the graphical side - screen, mouse, kbd, etc., e.g.: $ pkg info -xr xorg-server xorg-server-1.7.7_8,1: xf86-input-keyboard-1.7.0 xf86-input-mouse-1.9.0 xf86-video-vesa-2.3.2 nvidia-driver-310.44_1 $ So I'd say something is wrong with your installation if xorg-server is being pulled in when you build emacs, xterm or cvsup. Post the output from "pkg info -aq". Maybe this will give us a hint. Anton ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013 18:07:11 +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote: > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Jul 2013 11:47:16 +0100 (BST), Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > >> [...] > >> Obviously xterm does not depend on xorg-server. > > > > But one of its dependencies might. > > That make no sense, xterm may (and certainly does) depend on the same > libraries as the X server, but there is no way xterm depends on X > server itself. That's what I would imagine too. But who knows what's going on in the strange realm of build dependencies and run dependencies... :-) > I can manually remove X server and the fonts and xclac... and the > system is still running very well (and updating without trying to > reinstall X server...) That should even work without a warning (as the libs for xterm would be kept, and those required by the X server _only_ could safely be removed). In case such a procedure is needed more often, a local patch could be added to the respective port that would remove the unneeded parts in the post-install phase. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Polytropon wrote: > On Wed, 3 Jul 2013 11:47:16 +0100 (BST), Anton Shterenlikht wrote: >> $ pkg info -xd xterm >> xterm-293: >> xproto-7.0.24 >> xextproto-7.2.1 >> renderproto-0.11.1 >> printproto-1.0.5 >> libxcb-1.9.1 >> libXrender-0.9.8 >> libXpm-3.5.10 >> libXp-1.0.2,1 >> libXext-1.3.2,1 >> libXdmcp-1.1.1 >> libXau-1.0.8 >> libX11-1.6.0,1 >> libSM-1.2.1,1 >> libICE-1.0.8,1 >> kbproto-1.0.6 >> libXt-1.1.4,1 >> libXmu-1.1.1,1 >> libXaw-1.0.11,2 >> libXft-2.3.1 >> fontconfig-2.9.0,1 >> expat-2.0.1_2 >> freetype2-2.4.12_1 >> pkgconf-0.9.2_1 >> pcre-8.33 >> libpthread-stubs-0.3_3 >> >> Obviously xterm does not depend on xorg-server. > > But one of its dependencies might. That make no sense, xterm may (and certainly does) depend on the same libraries as the X server, but there is no way xterm depends on X server itself. I can manually remove X server and the fonts and xclac... and the system is still running very well (and updating without trying to reinstall X server...) Best regards, Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013 11:47:16 +0100 (BST), Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > $ pkg info -xd xterm > xterm-293: > xproto-7.0.24 > xextproto-7.2.1 > renderproto-0.11.1 > printproto-1.0.5 > libxcb-1.9.1 > libXrender-0.9.8 > libXpm-3.5.10 > libXp-1.0.2,1 > libXext-1.3.2,1 > libXdmcp-1.1.1 > libXau-1.0.8 > libX11-1.6.0,1 > libSM-1.2.1,1 > libICE-1.0.8,1 > kbproto-1.0.6 > libXt-1.1.4,1 > libXmu-1.1.1,1 > libXaw-1.0.11,2 > libXft-2.3.1 > fontconfig-2.9.0,1 > expat-2.0.1_2 > freetype2-2.4.12_1 > pkgconf-0.9.2_1 > pcre-8.33 > libpthread-stubs-0.3_3 > > Obviously xterm does not depend on xorg-server. But one of its dependencies might. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
java/icetea-web broken?
I install it (on a machine that it used to work on until I had to reinstall FB) and there is none of the normal command line tools and when I attempt to open a jnlp file in ff (21.0) java/icetea-web (1.4) it goes into an infinite loop of opening new blank tabs the site in question works perfectly on pre-21.0 and/or 1.4 and on all other OS's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
Anton, On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 10:55:48 +0700 (ICT) > From: Olivier Nicole > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: X client without X server > > Hi, > > Is there a way to install an X client without automatically install an > X server? > > On all my systems, I throw xterm and emacs, as the primary tools I use > for management, but the display is always remote, I never, ever, run X > on the machine, but still it install X server, fonts and a lot of > useless junk like xcalc. > > Is there a way to install xterm and only the libraries that are needed > to run xterm? > > TIA, > > Olivier > > I've been doing this for years. > What's the problem? > > Just install xterm, or whatever you need. > All the necessary libs will be pulled in, e.g.: > > $ pkg info -xd xterm > xterm-293: > xproto-7.0.24 > xextproto-7.2.1 > renderproto-0.11.1 > printproto-1.0.5 > libxcb-1.9.1 > libXrender-0.9.8 > libXpm-3.5.10 > libXp-1.0.2,1 > libXext-1.3.2,1 > libXdmcp-1.1.1 > libXau-1.0.8 > libX11-1.6.0,1 > libSM-1.2.1,1 > libICE-1.0.8,1 > kbproto-1.0.6 > libXt-1.1.4,1 > libXmu-1.1.1,1 > libXaw-1.0.11,2 > libXft-2.3.1 > fontconfig-2.9.0,1 > expat-2.0.1_2 > freetype2-2.4.12_1 > pkgconf-0.9.2_1 > pcre-8.33 > libpthread-stubs-0.3_3 > > Obviously xterm does not depend on xorg-server. But for some reason, xorg-server gets installed too. And tons of fonts, and ... It could be emacs, or cvsup, these are the 3 X Window clients I install. Best regards, Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: X client without X server
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 10:55:48 +0700 (ICT) From: Olivier Nicole To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: X client without X server Hi, Is there a way to install an X client without automatically install an X server? On all my systems, I throw xterm and emacs, as the primary tools I use for management, but the display is always remote, I never, ever, run X on the machine, but still it install X server, fonts and a lot of useless junk like xcalc. Is there a way to install xterm and only the libraries that are needed to run xterm? TIA, Olivier I've been doing this for years. What's the problem? Just install xterm, or whatever you need. All the necessary libs will be pulled in, e.g.: $ pkg info -xd xterm xterm-293: xproto-7.0.24 xextproto-7.2.1 renderproto-0.11.1 printproto-1.0.5 libxcb-1.9.1 libXrender-0.9.8 libXpm-3.5.10 libXp-1.0.2,1 libXext-1.3.2,1 libXdmcp-1.1.1 libXau-1.0.8 libX11-1.6.0,1 libSM-1.2.1,1 libICE-1.0.8,1 kbproto-1.0.6 libXt-1.1.4,1 libXmu-1.1.1,1 libXaw-1.0.11,2 libXft-2.3.1 fontconfig-2.9.0,1 expat-2.0.1_2 freetype2-2.4.12_1 pkgconf-0.9.2_1 pcre-8.33 libpthread-stubs-0.3_3 Obviously xterm does not depend on xorg-server. Anton ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
