RE: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
From: Daniela Sent: April 20, 2004 15:25 > I don't really have a specific example, but it's quite the same with human > languages. The more often a text is translated, the more useless information > gets added to it. And if the original text is beautifully written, it is > often total crap when you translate it back. These are not analagous. The reason things get lost in the translation of human language is that it is not possible to represent every expression in one human language with complete precision in another. However, it =is= possible to represent object orientation with complete precision in a procedural language. To support object orientation, C++ adds to C an intrinsic this pointer and vtables. These concepts can be expressed explicitly in C without loss of fidelity. -Dan ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Saturday 17 April 2004 12:38, DoubleF wrote: > On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 10:50:29AM +, > > Daniela probably wrote: > > On Friday 16 April 2004 21:52, Lucas Holt wrote: > > > > Why would one need C++ if it's converted to C anyway? > > > > > > C++ is useful for programmers that believe in object oriented > > > methodologies. Some things are easier to do in C++ as well. It all > > > depends on the programmer. > > > > > > You seem to favor assembly languages. I've found that many people into > > > assembly never seem to get OO and therefore languages like C++ and Java > > > make no sense to them. Assembly *can be* fast but its not portable. > > > C was created to make unix portable. C++ was created to add OO > > > features to C. (as was objective c) > > > > I do program in C++ quite often and it does make sense to me. I know > > seven programming languages and which one I use depends on the program, > > as I find them all easy. OO languages can be optimized differently than > > non-OO languages, and when you translate one language into another, this > > advantage gets lost. > > > > I would rather say, assembly is fast and can be portable, if it's done > > properly. Yes, it is an unforgiving language, but I think beginning > > programmers need exactly that. > > I don't think that assembly is the best language to learn first. English > is:) (I mean, reading the draft standards is a good idea; though they > can't be regarded as manuals, they have valuable examples and notes). > > Learning assembly has the added advantage of knowing (at least > basically) what happens when you do a dynamic_cast<>(), for instance. > Assembly doesn't have to be portable to be usable this educational way. > At least for me, this is necessary to be sure of what I'm doing in C++. > > This doesn't mean that to understand a C++ program, I have to convert it > to assembly:). It just means that, when I face a problem, I can dig into > the details and find out what I've done wrong, etc. OO means a high > level of abstraction, and if part of the levels are floating in the air > with nothing to support them, you sooner or later will face problems --- > the problems of your misunderstanding how it works. > > I don't mean you have to write every program in assembly, but if you > understand how it works --- it certainly helps. YMMV. That's basically what I was trying to say. Part of the reason why I love assembly is that I hate being limited and not being able to do *exactly* what I want. And if I want it to be fast ... I'd give up all the comforts of a high-level language even for no particular reason. Every programming language is fun and easy in it's own way. For me, ASM in not just a last resort. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Saturday 17 April 2004 18:10, Kai Grossjohann wrote: > Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Friday 16 April 2004 20:31, Kai Grossjohann wrote: > >> Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > What? C++ code is converted to C? Which compiler are you using, and > >> > why the hell would a compiler do this? > >> > >> In the old days, C++ was implemented by a program called cfront, I > >> believe, and it did convert C++ to C. > >> > >> If you can write a program that converts language X to C, then you get > >> to take advantage of all the nifty optimizing C compilers out there. > >> If you try to go the direct route to compiling into machine language, > >> then you need to do the optimization part yourself. So converting > >> into C as an intermediary language is an option that requires less > >> work. > > > > There's no harm in doing the optimizing yourself. If you compile > > directly, then you can optimize much more because you can take advantage > > of the structure of the language. Two different languages always have > > different strengths and weak points. > > What I was trying to say is that using C as an intermediary language > reduces effort. Of course it is /possible/ to do the optimizing > yourself, it is just more work. > > I think that "reducing effort" is a pretty damn good reason for doing > something in a specific way. I hope that answers your "why the hell" > question. Yes, I think reducing effort is a good reason, after all that's why I reduce the effort for the processor. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Saturday 17 April 2004 15:30, Dan MacMillan wrote: > From: Daniela > Sent: April 17, 2004 04:50 > > > OO languages can be optimized differently than non-OO languages, and > > when you translate one language into another, this advantage gets lost. > > I challenge you to defend this claim with a specific example. I don't really have a specific example, but it's quite the same with human languages. The more often a text is translated, the more useless information gets added to it. And if the original text is beautifully written, it is often total crap when you translate it back. > > I would rather say, assembly is fast and can be portable, if it's done > > properly. > > How does one properly do an assembly language program for the x86 > instruction set (for example) so that it will run on a StrongARM? I only mean that if you do it right, you can write code that can easily be made to run on similar architectures, or different operating systems. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Saturday 17 April 2004 12:38, Stephen Liu wrote: > Where can I find simple and straight forward guide for Assembly for > beginner. Hi, sorry for the late answer, I couldn't check my mail earlier. I found the following site to be quite helpful: http://courses.ece.uiuc.edu/ece291/archive/fall2001/books/labmanual/ inst-ref.html IMHO assembly is not really the language you learn best from books and tutorials. Assembly *is* tedious if you aren't really in love with it. Best thing would be: Get a good reference (like the above link), read a bit, and then think of something you could do with that bit you already know. Then write a small program and add more features to it as you read on. Don't expect to understand everything immediately, it will become clear when you try it out and see for yourself. You can choose between AT&T syntax, Intel syntax and direct opcodes. Although the latter is quite hard for seasoned high-level programmers, I would definitely recommend it if you have no programming experience at all. If you want to do this, I suggest that you have a look at the elf32.h and elf_common.h files in /usr/include/sys. I think Intel syntax is counter-intuitive, but that's really just a matter of taste (the page above uses Intel syntax). Hope that helps, if not then just ask. Daniela ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Why would one need C++ if it's converted to C anyway? Why would one need C if it's converted to machine language anyway? Why would one need machine language if it's converted to micro-ops anyway? Do you see my point? Kai ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Friday 16 April 2004 20:31, Kai Grossjohann wrote: >> Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > What? C++ code is converted to C? Which compiler are you using, and >> > why the hell would a compiler do this? >> >> In the old days, C++ was implemented by a program called cfront, I >> believe, and it did convert C++ to C. >> >> If you can write a program that converts language X to C, then you get >> to take advantage of all the nifty optimizing C compilers out there. >> If you try to go the direct route to compiling into machine language, >> then you need to do the optimization part yourself. So converting >> into C as an intermediary language is an option that requires less >> work. > > There's no harm in doing the optimizing yourself. If you compile directly, > then you can optimize much more because you can take advantage of the > structure of the language. Two different languages always have different > strengths and weak points. What I was trying to say is that using C as an intermediary language reduces effort. Of course it is /possible/ to do the optimizing yourself, it is just more work. I think that "reducing effort" is a pretty damn good reason for doing something in a specific way. I hope that answers your "why the hell" question. > BTW, when I need somthing optimized, I'll do it in assembly anyway. *cough* Kai ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
From: Daniela Sent: April 17, 2004 04:50 > > OO languages can be optimized differently than non-OO languages, and > when you translate one language into another, this advantage gets lost. I challenge you to defend this claim with a specific example. > I would rather say, assembly is fast and can be portable, if it's done > properly. How does one properly do an assembly language program for the x86 instruction set (for example) so that it will run on a StrongARM? -Dan ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 10:50:29AM +, Daniela probably wrote: > On Friday 16 April 2004 21:52, Lucas Holt wrote: > > > Why would one need C++ if it's converted to C anyway? > > > > C++ is useful for programmers that believe in object oriented > > methodologies. Some things are easier to do in C++ as well. It all > > depends on the programmer. > > > > You seem to favor assembly languages. I've found that many people into > > assembly never seem to get OO and therefore languages like C++ and Java > > make no sense to them. Assembly *can be* fast but its not portable. > > C was created to make unix portable. C++ was created to add OO > > features to C. (as was objective c) > > I do program in C++ quite often and it does make sense to me. I know seven > programming languages and which one I use depends on the program, as I find > them all easy. OO languages can be optimized differently than non-OO > languages, and when you translate one language into another, this advantage > gets lost. > > I would rather say, assembly is fast and can be portable, if it's done > properly. Yes, it is an unforgiving language, but I think beginning > programmers need exactly that. > I don't think that assembly is the best language to learn first. English is:) (I mean, reading the draft standards is a good idea; though they can't be regarded as manuals, they have valuable examples and notes). Learning assembly has the added advantage of knowing (at least basically) what happens when you do a dynamic_cast<>(), for instance. Assembly doesn't have to be portable to be usable this educational way. At least for me, this is necessary to be sure of what I'm doing in C++. This doesn't mean that to understand a C++ program, I have to convert it to assembly:). It just means that, when I face a problem, I can dig into the details and find out what I've done wrong, etc. OO means a high level of abstraction, and if part of the levels are floating in the air with nothing to support them, you sooner or later will face problems --- the problems of your misunderstanding how it works. I don't mean you have to write every program in assembly, but if you understand how it works --- it certainly helps. YMMV. -- DoubleF Legalize free-enterprise murder: why should governments have all the fun? pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Friday 16 April 2004 21:52, Lucas Holt wrote: > > Why would one need C++ if it's converted to C anyway? > > C++ is useful for programmers that believe in object oriented > methodologies. Some things are easier to do in C++ as well. It all > depends on the programmer. > > You seem to favor assembly languages. I've found that many people into > assembly never seem to get OO and therefore languages like C++ and Java > make no sense to them. Assembly *can be* fast but its not portable. > C was created to make unix portable. C++ was created to add OO > features to C. (as was objective c) I do program in C++ quite often and it does make sense to me. I know seven programming languages and which one I use depends on the program, as I find them all easy. OO languages can be optimized differently than non-OO languages, and when you translate one language into another, this advantage gets lost. I would rather say, assembly is fast and can be portable, if it's done properly. Yes, it is an unforgiving language, but I think beginning programmers need exactly that. Daniela ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Why would one need C++ if it's converted to C anyway? C++ is useful for programmers that believe in object oriented methodologies. Some things are easier to do in C++ as well. It all depends on the programmer. You seem to favor assembly languages. I've found that many people into assembly never seem to get OO and therefore languages like C++ and Java make no sense to them. Assembly *can be* fast but its not portable. C was created to make unix portable. C++ was created to add OO features to C. (as was objective c) Lucas Holt [EMAIL PROTECTED] FoolishGames.com (Jewel Fan Site) JustJournal.com (Free blogging) 'I try to think but nothing happens' -- Homer Jay Simpson ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Friday 16 April 2004 20:31, Kai Grossjohann wrote: > Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > What? C++ code is converted to C? Which compiler are you using, and > > why the hell would a compiler do this? > > In the old days, C++ was implemented by a program called cfront, I > believe, and it did convert C++ to C. > > If you can write a program that converts language X to C, then you get > to take advantage of all the nifty optimizing C compilers out there. > If you try to go the direct route to compiling into machine language, > then you need to do the optimization part yourself. So converting > into C as an intermediary language is an option that requires less > work. There's no harm in doing the optimizing yourself. If you compile directly, then you can optimize much more because you can take advantage of the structure of the language. Two different languages always have different strengths and weak points. BTW, when I need somthing optimized, I'll do it in assembly anyway. > GCC has a backend which can server as an intermediary language, I > guess, but if you convert into C, then you aren't even wedded to GCC. > > Kai > > > ___ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Friday 16 April 2004 19:13, Miles Lubin wrote: > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:20:36 + > > Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thursday 15 April 2004 11:10, Lucas Holt wrote: > > > Many universities teach C++ exclusiveley now. Java and C++ share some > > > common ground on syntax and the fact that they both support Object > > > oriented programming. Aside from that, there are many differences. > > > C++ is native code and executes faster than java which uses a virtual > > > machine. C++ code is compiled into C code by the compiler and then > > > assembly. Java is converted into byte code for a virtual machine. > > > > What? C++ code is converted to C? Which compiler are you using, and why > > the hell would a compiler do this? > > > > I would definitely recommend to start with assembly. It gives you a good > > understanding of the hardware, and every programming language you learn > > afterwards will be a piece of cake. Then get a good reference (some have > > already been mentioned) and start coding a real program right away, skip > > that boring "hello world" stuff. I learned seven programming languages in > > five months with this method. > > > > Daniela > > I believe origionally that C++ compilers converted C++ to C. Why would one need C++ if it's converted to C anyway? > I'm not sure about starting with assembly, it could be overwhelming. > I started with Basic, and I learned all the other languages fine. ASM knowledge really doesn't help with the simple stuff. But later, when you need to debug a buffer overflow in a big complicated program, you'd be glad to have a basic idea of what the processor is doing. And if ASM is your very first language, you are less likely to become a sloppy and lazy coder. Besides that, I think ASM is the most logical thing in the world. There's almost nothing you really have to learn. Actually, that's not so true for assembly, but rather for the opcodes themselves. I have always wondered how one could remember what all these cryptical numbers stand for, until I recognized that I don't have to. There are just a few basic rules, and if you know them, you have already won the game. I think that's a lot simpler than remembering complex syntax rules with many exceptions, reserved words, includes, ... Just my $0.02. Daniela ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What? C++ code is converted to C? Which compiler are you using, and > why the hell would a compiler do this? In the old days, C++ was implemented by a program called cfront, I believe, and it did convert C++ to C. If you can write a program that converts language X to C, then you get to take advantage of all the nifty optimizing C compilers out there. If you try to go the direct route to compiling into machine language, then you need to do the optimization part yourself. So converting into C as an intermediary language is an option that requires less work. GCC has a backend which can server as an intermediary language, I guess, but if you convert into C, then you aren't even wedded to GCC. Kai ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:20:36 + Daniela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday 15 April 2004 11:10, Lucas Holt wrote: > > Many universities teach C++ exclusiveley now. Java and C++ share some > > common ground on syntax and the fact that they both support Object oriented > > programming. Aside from that, there are many differences. C++ is native > > code and executes faster than java which uses a virtual machine. C++ code > > is compiled into C code by the compiler and then assembly. Java is > > converted into byte code for a virtual machine. > > What? C++ code is converted to C? Which compiler are you using, and why the > hell would a compiler do this? > > I would definitely recommend to start with assembly. It gives you a good > understanding of the hardware, and every programming language you learn > afterwards will be a piece of cake. Then get a good reference (some have > already been mentioned) and start coding a real program right away, skip that > boring "hello world" stuff. I learned seven programming languages in five > months with this method. > > Daniela I believe origionally that C++ compilers converted C++ to C. I'm not sure about starting with assembly, it could be overwhelming. I started with Basic, and I learned all the other languages fine. Miles ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
On Thursday 15 April 2004 11:10, Lucas Holt wrote: > Many universities teach C++ exclusiveley now. Java and C++ share some > common ground on syntax and the fact that they both support Object oriented > programming. Aside from that, there are many differences. C++ is native > code and executes faster than java which uses a virtual machine. C++ code > is compiled into C code by the compiler and then assembly. Java is > converted into byte code for a virtual machine. What? C++ code is converted to C? Which compiler are you using, and why the hell would a compiler do this? I would definitely recommend to start with assembly. It gives you a good understanding of the hardware, and every programming language you learn afterwards will be a piece of cake. Then get a good reference (some have already been mentioned) and start coding a real program right away, skip that boring "hello world" stuff. I learned seven programming languages in five months with this method. Daniela ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
K & R is a good book. For C++, Absolute C++ was my textbook last semester and I found it to be pretty good. Avoid the Deitel & Deitel C++ book. It has a few good reference chapters but covers material in a very choppy way. Practical C++ programming from O'Reilley is a good book on C++ basics. It covers I/O and syntax well, but does not get into the OO elements of the language as much as one would like. Avoid the C++ Programing Language. Although the book was written by the author of C++, it is NOT a good reference. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
> > > > > Thanks, > > I will strongly consider your advice. > > Tomorrow I'm heading out to barns and noble to pick up > > some reading. Any good beginner C books you may > > recommend? > > It wouldn't be thought a beginner book per se, but you should > have the K&R C Programming Language as it is the definitive reference. > > Also, C - A Reference Manual (its latest edition is 5 or later) is > a good programming reference. I forgot to include the authors - Samuel P Harbison III and Guy L Steele Jr jerry > > But, neither one is a beginner's tutorial so, > you'll want one more book of some sort. > > jerry > > > > > thanks for your time every one! > > > > Joe > > > ___ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
> > Thanks, > I will strongly consider your advice. > Tomorrow I'm heading out to barns and noble to pick up > some reading. Any good beginner C books you may > recommend? It wouldn't be thought a beginner book per se, but you should have the K&R C Programming Language as it is the definitive reference. Also, C - A Reference Manual (its latest edition is 5 or later) is a good programming reference. But, neither is a tutorial so, you'll want one more. jerry > > thanks for your time every one! > > Joe > ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
I would suggest C before C++. I took a C class after tring C++ on my own. I tought C++ was newer and better. Actually I found it was only newer. It has new features and such, just not better because it was an extension or expansion to C. I don't use C++ so I am sure there are those that would say C++ is better, but I think it is only better if it suits the job better. I was told by a friend java is very close to C++ so it maybe a smart move, but anyone coming in fresh I would always recommend C first. Many universities teach C++ exclusiveley now. Java and C++ share some common ground on syntax and the fact that they both support Object oriented programming. Aside from that, there are many differences. C++ is native code and executes faster than java which uses a virtual machine. C++ code is compiled into C code by the compiler and then assembly. Java is converted into byte code for a virtual machine. I had a class at the local community college in C before I moved on to western michigan. The only benefit from the C class was a better understanding of pointers. Contrary to what many C++ programmers will tell you, pointers are still very useful and needed at times. Although I tend to like C as a language, C++ arguably makes it easier to reuse code. Regardless of the order, you should look at both languages to have a good foundation. C++ programmers must learn C basics, at least C libraries like and . ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
For beginner level stuff, I personally liked "C++ for Linux in 21 Days" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0672318954/qid=1081997417/sr= 1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1388169-2092062?v=glance&s=books). It really helped me get the hang of the gcc compiler, and break some nasty habits I had picked up with Visual Studio 6. I am also very interested to see if anyone has better advanced books that they used. Best Regards, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Me Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 9:36 PM To: jason Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD Thanks, I will strongly consider your advice. Tomorrow I'm heading out to barns and noble to pick up some reading. Any good beginner C books you may recommend? thanks for your time every one! Joe --- jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Me wrote: > > >Hi, > >I've learn shell scripting and java on my freebsd > box > >since I migrated from winblows 98 a while back. now > >i'm ready to move to a more sophisticated language. > I > >have decided to go with C++. Is there any bigginer > >guides online that you may have run a cross that > would > >help me get started? > > > > > >Joe > > > > > > Dont let the bugs in, close the Windows > > > > > > > > > >__ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > >___ > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > > > > > I would suggest C before C++. I took a C class > after tring C++ on my > own. I tought C++ was newer and better. Actually I > found it was only > newer. It has new features and such, just not > better because it was an > extension or expansion to C. I don't use C++ so I > am sure there are > those that would say C++ is better, but I think it > is only better if it > suits the job better. I was told by a friend java > is very close to C++ > so it maybe a smart move, but anyone coming in fresh > I would always > recommend C first. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Thanks, I will strongly consider your advice. Tomorrow I'm heading out to barns and noble to pick up some reading. Any good beginner C books you may recommend? thanks for your time every one! Joe --- jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Me wrote: > > >Hi, > >I've learn shell scripting and java on my freebsd > box > >since I migrated from winblows 98 a while back. now > >i'm ready to move to a more sophisticated language. > I > >have decided to go with C++. Is there any bigginer > >guides online that you may have run a cross that > would > >help me get started? > > > > > >Joe > > > > > > Dont let the bugs in, close the Windows > > > > > > > > > >__ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > >___ > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > > > > > I would suggest C before C++. I took a C class > after tring C++ on my > own. I tought C++ was newer and better. Actually I > found it was only > newer. It has new features and such, just not > better because it was an > extension or expansion to C. I don't use C++ so I > am sure there are > those that would say C++ is better, but I think it > is only better if it > suits the job better. I was told by a friend java > is very close to C++ > so it maybe a smart move, but anyone coming in fresh > I would always > recommend C first. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Me wrote: Hi, I've learn shell scripting and java on my freebsd box since I migrated from winblows 98 a while back. now i'm ready to move to a more sophisticated language. I have decided to go with C++. Is there any bigginer guides online that you may have run a cross that would help me get started? I have these in my bookmarks: http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cplusplus/ http://www.camtp.uni-mb.si/books/Thinking-in-C++/Contents.html R. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Me wrote: Hi, I've learn shell scripting and java on my freebsd box since I migrated from winblows 98 a while back. now i'm ready to move to a more sophisticated language. I have decided to go with C++. Is there any bigginer guides online that you may have run a cross that would help me get started? Joe Dont let the bugs in, close the Windows __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" I would suggest C before C++. I took a C class after tring C++ on my own. I tought C++ was newer and better. Actually I found it was only newer. It has new features and such, just not better because it was an extension or expansion to C. I don't use C++ so I am sure there are those that would say C++ is better, but I think it is only better if it suits the job better. I was told by a friend java is very close to C++ so it maybe a smart move, but anyone coming in fresh I would always recommend C first. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Me wrote: > Hi, > I've learn shell scripting and java on my freebsd box > since I migrated from winblows 98 a while back. now > i'm ready to move to a more sophisticated language. I > have decided to go with C++. Is there any bigginer > guides online that you may have run a cross that would > help me get started? Don't know about a guide, but here's what I'd suggest (these suggestions are - like the question - not specific to FreeBSD at all, but should apply to any (modern) *nix platform) (modulo paths and package names, of course). If you are on FreeBSD 4.x, install the lang/gcc33 port, and use /usr/local/bin/g++33 as your c++ compiler, since the base system's gcc (v. 2.95.4) lacks quite a lot of modern C++ features, is less standard compliant, etc. Choose your favourite editor. XEmacs, vim and the other usual suspects come to my mind, but there are also IDE's in the ports collection, like kdevelop (KDE), and probably others. Google for book suggestions. Get some from your local library, and consider to buy your favourite one(s). Good online resources are (IMO): http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/ http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html Now: Start your first project ;-) If you think, you are ready for GUI programming, I'd recommend http://www.wxwidgets.org/ (formerly known as wxWindows). Happy programming, Simon signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Beginning C++ in FreeBSD
Hi, I've learn shell scripting and java on my freebsd box since I migrated from winblows 98 a while back. now i'm ready to move to a more sophisticated language. I have decided to go with C++. Is there any bigginer guides online that you may have run a cross that would help me get started? Joe Dont let the bugs in, close the Windows __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
