Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 6:10 PM, b. f. bf1...@googlemail.com wrote: Okay. Maybe we'll see a convergence of the two in the medium/long term. Right now, interested parties need to look at the available hardware, and then talk to the vendors about whether they would be willing to support a port of their software to FreeBSD, and _specifically_, what is needed. For example, we faced a similar situation with the newer Nvidia GPUs not so long ago. Some key developers like John Baldwin got involved, and determined what changes needed to be made in the FreeBSD base system in order to support the newer hardware and graphics drivers. It would have been nice to get an open-source driver, but since Nvidia wasn't willing to do that, FreeBSD chose to meet them half-way. Probably a similar effort will be needed for CUDA. Someone should look at the requirements, and have a _detailed_, _sustained_ discussion with Nvidia and the FreeBSD Foundation. If, for example, KMS is needed, then the Foundation may be willing to invest in that, because it will probably also be needed for new graphics drivers and Xorg, anyway. Robert Noland was working on it, but he was doing it largely by himself in his spare time, and then he got a new job and had to slow down considerably, if not stop altogether. ... Hi I remember seeing a post sometime back (either here or on nvnews) about someone getting a prebuilt linux-based CUDA application to work freebsd's linuxulator. Does this mean that the driver is ready, and just the toolchain has to be ported? Regards Gautham Ganapathy ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On 18.08.2010 18:20, C. Bergström wrote: Hi Oliver, The problem behind the subject is a little bit frustrating, so I do not know were to start. Yeah it's a pretty big problem, but I can say others are looking at it and taking small steps in the right direction. First, and this hasn't changed since the last 15 years, FreeBSD lack in support of professional Compiler vendors. Pprtland Group offers only Linux compilers, as far as I know Intel does not offer a native FreeBSD 64 Bit compiler. So we are stuck with gcc and gfortran *SNIP* If we see beyond the CUDA part of this question, it should be noted that ATI/AMD has kept to their promise of actually supporting opensource. (see also http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=amd_evergreen_3dnum=1) I must admit not having tested that code myself (my two 5970s sit in a windows box), but projects should maybe consider the ATI/AMD cards. 928GFLOPS double-precision per card (4.64TFLOPS single precision) with proper documentation should at least give a proper start to things... //Svein -- +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Svein Skogen (Listmail account) wrote: On 18.08.2010 18:20, C. Bergström wrote: Hi Oliver, The problem behind the subject is a little bit frustrating, so I do not know were to start. Yeah it's a pretty big problem, but I can say others are looking at it and taking small steps in the right direction. First, and this hasn't changed since the last 15 years, FreeBSD lack in support of professional Compiler vendors. Pprtland Group offers only Linux compilers, as far as I know Intel does not offer a native FreeBSD 64 Bit compiler. So we are stuck with gcc and gfortran *SNIP* If we see beyond the CUDA part of this question, it should be noted that ATI/AMD has kept to their promise of actually supporting opensource. (see also http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=amd_evergreen_3dnum=1) I must admit not having tested that code myself (my two 5970s sit in a windows box), but projects should maybe consider the ATI/AMD cards. 928GFLOPS double-precision per card (4.64TFLOPS single precision) with proper documentation should at least give a proper start to things... I'm sorry, but this is only a half truth.. The firmware they don't release, despite what they want you to believe, is both interesting and should imho be open. Also the documentation they've released clearly has parts chopped out and when you actually try to do something useful it's missing important details. (My perspective is biased since by something useful I mean write an assembler or compute backend) I've had one awesome engineer at AMD trying to help us fill in some of those blanks, but if or when the public docs will be updated. Overall due to ATI hw missing ECC ram, demand paging and a few other hardware features I don't consider it a serious contender in HPC yet. Lastly, you'll see the real efficiency sucks and you can't get anywhere near the peak GFLOPS off those cards. Oh.. and most important to the land of FBSD is that the ATI drivers are still using the rather nasty TTM.. This is *not* very easily ported to FBSD, blocks compute capabilities and our early benchmarks show kicking it out has given nice performance increase in certain areas of graphics. (Hope I don't come across negative... I'm just trying to give real feedback based on our experience) ./C ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On 21.08.2010 11:01, C. Bergström wrote: *snip* (Hope I don't come across negative... I'm just trying to give real feedback based on our experience) No coming-across-as-negative interpreted. ;) As I said, my two 5970s sit in a windows box... //Svein -- +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Sorry for the dalay: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 04:26:16 +0700 C. Bergström cbergst...@pathscale.com wrote: No, PathScale has a full NVIDIA replacement. From front-end programming model to kernel driver. (I'm happy to give more information, but don't want to spam the list) Oks, FreeBSD has better OpenMP capabilities by its network connections, i'll like to use it in the next HPC era. MPI is typically dependent on the network not OpenMP. OpenMP 3.0 can be made more scalable if there's tasks built-into the kernel that can be cleanly exposed to userland. (Like OpenSolaris + libtask from Moinak is a good example) Oppss, i missed an 'I', i want to say OpenMPI, which is already in ports. Anyway... imho FreeBSD has a number of issues before it can be suitable for HPC.. 1) Better vendor support for 3rd party and open source tools (Allinea, Totalview, undodb.. compilers, optimized math libs, profilers etc) With the 3rd party vendor closed source tools little can be done if they are not convinced about the freebsd market capabilities. With the open source ones, some of them are already ported to freebsd or don't need a port to work, but you are right, in this league we go behind. 2) HPC ready compiler.. (Sorry guys, but LLVM is just not production ready for this task and is missing Fortran) For the HPC compiler, gcc is still the main compiler and OpenMP (without the I ;)) is supported since version 4.2 if i remember correctly but i haven't tried it under FreeBSD only in Linux. Open-MPI is in ports too. 3) IB network drivers Don't know the status of Infiniband drivers, are there drivers? 4) Hardware vendor to deliver a complete solution + support (iXsystems?) Yes, but the freebsd community must develop it before a it can be delivered. There's a HPC mailing list, completly abandoned, only spam. There isn't a directory on ports with hpc programs neither. I'll ask these administrative questions on other mail thread on this list. ./C L ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
... MPI is typically dependent on the network not OpenMP. OpenMP 3.0 can be made more scalable if there's tasks built-into the kernel that can be cleanly exposed to userland. (Like OpenSolaris + libtask from Moinak is a good example) If you have a specific set of modifications in mind, then you should bring them up on freebsd-hackers, for example. There are active users of OpenMPI around ( e.g., http://www.bsdcan.org/2010/schedule/events/169.en.html , and I'm sure they would be willing to discuss improvements. 2) HPC ready compiler.. (Sorry guys, but LLVM is just not production ready for this task and is missing Fortran) Not ready now, perhaps -- but development there is fairly rapid, and the switch to llvm, if there is to be one, is still some time off. However, later versions of gcc are in ports, there are some discussions regarding the revival of the icc port, and there is work underway to allow users to more easily use alternative compilers and toolchains for the base system as well as for ports: http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2010-01-2010-03.html#Out-of-Tree-Toolchain 3) IB network drivers Don't know the status of Infiniband drivers, are there drivers? There is a port of of the Open Fabrics Enterprise Distribution underway: http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base/projects/ofed/ And there is: http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base/head/sys/contrib/rdma/ 4) Hardware vendor to deliver a complete solution + support (iXsystems?) Well, that's not up to us. All we can do is port more software and encourage people to use it. And we includes you. b. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Hi b. f. On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:24:16 + b. f. bf1...@googlemail.com wrote: ... MPI is typically dependent on the network not OpenMP. OpenMP 3.0 can be made more scalable if there's tasks built-into the kernel http://www.bsdcan.org/2010/schedule/events/169.en.html , and I'm sure they would be willing to discuss improvements. Reading documentation, thanks b. f. I'm already on freebsd-hackers list. Is that the correct list for this topic? 2) HPC ready compiler.. (Sorry guys, but LLVM is just not production ready for this task and is missing Fortran) Not ready now, perhaps -- but development there is fairly rapid, and the switch to llvm, if there is to be one, is still some time off. However, later versions of gcc are in ports, there are some discussions regarding the revival of the icc port, and there is work underway to allow users to more easily use alternative compilers and toolchains for the base system as well as for ports: http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2010-01-2010-03.html#Out-of-Tree-Toolchain Not only compilers for Fortran or other languages but for new architetures, Cluster of SMP CPUs with GPU attached. 3) IB network drivers Don't know the status of Infiniband drivers, are there drivers? There is a port of of the Open Fabrics Enterprise Distribution underway: http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base/projects/ofed/ And there is: http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base/head/sys/contrib/rdma/ Oks, i didn't know that. Please note that i made that question, not C. Bergström from cbergst...@pathscale.com 4) Hardware vendor to deliver a complete solution + support (iXsystems?) Well, that's not up to us. All we can do is port more software and encourage people to use it. And we includes you. I want to be on that ship, and think that more than only porting software is needed, live-examples of use, modify the kernel to allow nvidia/ati (even intel) develop drivers and of course, marketing and bechmarking (aren't them the samething?) For now i'm going to port my hpc app to FreeBSD. b. Thanks ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On 8/20/10, Eduardo emor...@xroff.net wrote: On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:24:16 + b. f. bf1...@googlemail.com wrote: Reading documentation, thanks b. f. I'm already on freebsd-hackers list. Is that the correct list for this topic? If you have a specific technical question about FreeBSD internals, then freebsd-hackers is probably a good place to ask. -hackers is a low-volume list, and the subscribers will not be happy if there are a flood of very general inquiries or chat, or if the person who is asking questions hasn't thought about them beforehand. -arch is even more conservative, and solely for questions about the direction of the base system, especially the kernel. -ports may also be a good place to ask about porting software. Not only compilers for Fortran or other languages but for new architetures, Cluster of SMP CPUs with GPU attached. Okay. Maybe we'll see a convergence of the two in the medium/long term. Right now, interested parties need to look at the available hardware, and then talk to the vendors about whether they would be willing to support a port of their software to FreeBSD, and _specifically_, what is needed. For example, we faced a similar situation with the newer Nvidia GPUs not so long ago. Some key developers like John Baldwin got involved, and determined what changes needed to be made in the FreeBSD base system in order to support the newer hardware and graphics drivers. It would have been nice to get an open-source driver, but since Nvidia wasn't willing to do that, FreeBSD chose to meet them half-way. Probably a similar effort will be needed for CUDA. Someone should look at the requirements, and have a _detailed_, _sustained_ discussion with Nvidia and the FreeBSD Foundation. If, for example, KMS is needed, then the Foundation may be willing to invest in that, because it will probably also be needed for new graphics drivers and Xorg, anyway. Robert Noland was working on it, but he was doing it largely by himself in his spare time, and then he got a new job and had to slow down considerably, if not stop altogether. ... For now i'm going to port my hpc app to FreeBSD. Good. You may want to consider discussing any substantial effort first on -ports, to avoid duplication of effort, and to see if there are any better alternatives available. b. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
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Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Hi Oliver, The problem behind the subject is a little bit frustrating, so I do not know were to start. Yeah it's a pretty big problem, but I can say others are looking at it and taking small steps in the right direction. First, and this hasn't changed since the last 15 years, FreeBSD lack in support of professional Compiler vendors. Pprtland Group offers only Linux compilers, as far as I know Intel does not offer a native FreeBSD 64 Bit compiler. So we are stuck with gcc and gfortran PathScale quietly is doing alpha testing on our very recent port. Some of it is work in progress, but we are *very* competitive in performance for most HPC codes. matter, if OpenCL/CUDA stuff could be used. But there is then the next problem. It seems that there is no real chance getting support for executing high performance code portions of our software in any way on a graphics card (gpu). Most FreeBSD driver doesn't support any 3D acceleration and as far as I know, the driver's support of 3D is essential for GPGPU usage. I looked for nVidia's native 64 Bit driver for FreeBSD, I found it, was happy having it, but then I realised that obviously CUDA isn't usable with this driver, since the CUDA SDK is not to be ported to FreeBSD and not even to 64 Bit FreeBSDs. Well, FreeBSD doesn't support 64 Bit Linuxulator as far as I know, so there is no chance getting software run in 64 bit environments using OpenCL/CUDA with nVidia GPUs, neither natively under FreeBSD nor with a 64Bit Linuxulator, is this right? PathScale and CAPS recently announced HMPP as a new manycore GPGPU open standard and there's a chance you'll see it ported to FBSD. In addition to this you could see other open standards working well on FBSD, but that depends on market demand and feedback. I havn't looked deeper into AMDs offerings, but I guess since it's silent around OpenCL and AMD-based GPGPU, even with Linux there isn't much. I'm not very close to the GPGPU scene, we even start thinking about porting and developing some mathematical stuff into libraries and thought about OpenCL. Unluckily, in my team I'm the only one utilizing FreeBSD. Maybe someone out here has solved some problems and could email me. Even AMD seems to be a white spot in the subject of GPGPU and FreeBSD for me, maybe someone could shed some light on this. What's blocking this from being available now a) someone porting the kernel driver over or b) us getting funding to do it. When we started working on the driver months ago one of the main goals was to allow greater portability. Details for any interested developers is available any time. In general I'd like to see more open source OS diversity in the HPC industry and happy to help where I can. For those curious why NVIDIA doesn't port CUDA to FBSD... My guess is that to do a high quality job it would take 1-2 man years of effort. In the non-FOSS world that's expensive. If anyone uses irc feel free to say hi.. #pathscale - irc.freenode.net Best, ./Christopher ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Hi Christopher, C. Bergström cbergst...@pathscale.com escribió: PathScale and CAPS recently announced HMPP as a new manycore GPGPU open standard and there's a chance you'll see it ported to FBSD. In addition to this you could see other open standards working well on FBSD, but that depends on market demand and feedback. Do we need with this suite a nvidia/ati driver that executes the CUDA/OpenCL/Stream code? If yes, we'll have the same problem. I havn't looked deeper into AMDs offerings, but I guess since it's silent around OpenCL and AMD-based GPGPU, even with Linux there isn't much. I'm not very close to the GPGPU scene, we even start thinking about porting and developing some mathematical stuff into libraries and thought about OpenCL. Unluckily, in my team I'm the only one utilizing FreeBSD. Maybe someone out here has solved some problems and could email me. Even AMD seems to be a white spot in the subject of GPGPU and FreeBSD for me, maybe someone could shed some light on this. What's blocking this from being available now a) someone porting the kernel driver over or b) us getting funding to do it. Perhaps the FreeBSD Foundation can open a new project for it. Today it can be seen like a lost-time-addon for FreeBSD, but not only Maths/Physics/Chemistry can use GPGPU, it can be used by databases, compilers, servers, and more in a nearer future. For example, all algorithms to filter image and video (Scanner, PET, Astronomy, video de/compression, etc) are being ported to gpgpu and i can't use FreeBSD for this. When we started working on the driver months ago one of the main goals was to allow greater portability. Details for any interested developers is available any time. In general I'd like to see more open source OS diversity in the HPC industry and happy to help where I can. FreeBSD has better OpenMP capabilities by its network connections, i'll like to use it in the next HPC era. For those curious why NVIDIA doesn't port CUDA to FBSD... My guess is that to do a high quality job it would take 1-2 man years of effort. In the non-FOSS world that's expensive. Best, ./Christopher L ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
emor...@xroff.net wrote: Hi Christopher, C. Bergström cbergst...@pathscale.com escribió: PathScale and CAPS recently announced HMPP as a new manycore GPGPU open standard and there's a chance you'll see it ported to FBSD. In addition to this you could see other open standards working well on FBSD, but that depends on market demand and feedback. Do we need with this suite a nvidia/ati driver that executes the CUDA/OpenCL/Stream code? If yes, we'll have the same problem. No, PathScale has a full NVIDIA replacement. From front-end programming model to kernel driver. (I'm happy to give more information, but don't want to spam the list) I havn't looked deeper into AMDs offerings, but I guess since it's silent around OpenCL and AMD-based GPGPU, even with Linux there isn't much. I'm not very close to the GPGPU scene, we even start thinking about porting and developing some mathematical stuff into libraries and thought about OpenCL. Unluckily, in my team I'm the only one utilizing FreeBSD. Maybe someone out here has solved some problems and could email me. Even AMD seems to be a white spot in the subject of GPGPU and FreeBSD for me, maybe someone could shed some light on this. What's blocking this from being available now a) someone porting the kernel driver over or b) us getting funding to do it. Perhaps the FreeBSD Foundation can open a new project for it. Today it can be seen like a lost-time-addon for FreeBSD, but not only Maths/Physics/Chemistry can use GPGPU, it can be used by databases, compilers, servers, and more in a nearer future. For example, all algorithms to filter image and video (Scanner, PET, Astronomy, video de/compression, etc) are being ported to gpgpu and i can't use FreeBSD for this. When we started working on the driver months ago one of the main goals was to allow greater portability. Details for any interested developers is available any time. In general I'd like to see more open source OS diversity in the HPC industry and happy to help where I can. FreeBSD has better OpenMP capabilities by its network connections, i'll like to use it in the next HPC era. MPI is typically dependent on the network not OpenMP. OpenMP 3.0 can be made more scalable if there's tasks built-into the kernel that can be cleanly exposed to userland. (Like OpenSolaris + libtask from Moinak is a good example) Anyway... imho FreeBSD has a number of issues before it can be suitable for HPC.. 1) Better vendor support for 3rd party and open source tools (Allinea, Totalview, undodb.. compilers, optimized math libs, profilers etc) 2) HPC ready compiler.. (Sorry guys, but LLVM is just not production ready for this task and is missing Fortran) 3) IB network drivers 4) Hardware vendor to deliver a complete solution + support (iXsystems?) ./C ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Pieter de Goeje pie...@degoeje.nl escribió: The amd64 driver was an illustration of something where raising awareness or whatever you might call it actually helped IMHO. Unfortunately this is a chicken-and-egg problem. No HPC users means no demand means no incentive to do something about it means no HPC users ad infinitum. But I'm sure you're already knew that. There are some other problems (please note that i don't follow the -current nor -kernel lists) a) Who knows how to implement Kernel Mode Settings for this? b) Are KMS drivers desirable in FreeBSD? c) Is it in the roadmap for FreeBSD9 or 8.x? d) Anyone wants to do the work? L ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
There are some other problems (please note that i don't follow the -current nor -kernel lists) a) Who knows how to implement Kernel Mode Settings for this? b) Are KMS drivers desirable in FreeBSD? c) Is it in the roadmap for FreeBSD9 or 8.x? d) Anyone wants to do the work? probably the last question and is the most important ... remaining issues - not yet substantial ... :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 11:53:10AM +0200, O. Hartmann wrote: First, and this hasn't changed since the last 15 years, FreeBSD lack in support of professional Compiler vendors. I feel your pain. I'd say that at present FBSD cannot be used as HPC platform. Even if some things are possible to achive via linux-base, why bother? I think the real question is: What are the goals of the FreeBSD project? Or, in other words, for which tasks FBSD is preferable to linux? It seems the answer is something about secure network server. Definitely not HPC.. unfortunately. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 331 5944 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
В Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:53:10 +0200 O. Hartmann ohart...@mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de пишет: I think that OpenCL can be activated in FreeBSD, if you add the necessary extensions for clang/llvm ... http://clang.llvm.org/docs/LanguageExtensions.html#vectors and a few links on the topic ... http://www.khronos.org/message_boards/viewtopic.php?f=36t=2314 http://llvm.org/Users.html Am I right? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Ivan Klymenko fi...@ukr.net escribió: В Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:53:10 +0200 O. Hartmann ohart...@mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de пишет: I think that OpenCL can be activated in FreeBSD, if you add the necessary extensions for clang/llvm ... http://clang.llvm.org/docs/LanguageExtensions.html#vectors Yes, you can compile OpenCL but you can't execute the resulting app. and a few links on the topic ... http://www.khronos.org/message_boards/viewtopic.php?f=36t=2314 http://llvm.org/Users.html Am I right? Yes, but again, freebsd has not nvidia/ati drivers that allows it. There were some improvements in 8.0 that allow use the new nvidia drivers, but for now there's no opencl/cuda for us. L ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On Monday 16 August 2010 15:47:13 emor...@xroff.net wrote: Ivan Klymenko fi...@ukr.net escribió: В Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:53:10 +0200 O. Hartmann ohart...@mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de пишет: I think that OpenCL can be activated in FreeBSD, if you add the necessary extensions for clang/llvm ... http://clang.llvm.org/docs/LanguageExtensions.html#vectors Yes, you can compile OpenCL but you can't execute the resulting app. and a few links on the topic ... http://www.khronos.org/message_boards/viewtopic.php?f=36t=2314 http://llvm.org/Users.html Am I right? Yes, but again, freebsd has not nvidia/ati drivers that allows it. There were some improvements in 8.0 that allow use the new nvidia drivers, but for now there's no opencl/cuda for us. L I think it might be worthwhile to contact nVidia directly about this. To raise awareness that there are people using FreeBSD for HPC and that they very much would like to see OpenCL/CUDA supported. - Pieter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
I think it might be worthwhile to contact nVidia directly about this. To raise awareness that there are people using FreeBSD for HPC and that they very much would like to see OpenCL/CUDA supported. http://nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152742 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 05:33:33PM +0300, Ivan Klymenko wrote: I think it might be worthwhile to contact nVidia directly about this. To raise awareness that there are people using FreeBSD for HPC and that they very much would like to see OpenCL/CUDA supported. how is this different from getting e.g. native Flash or Matlab on FBSD? We've been trying to raise awareness for years.. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 331 5944 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On Monday 16 August 2010 16:50:01 Anton Shterenlikht wrote: On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 05:33:33PM +0300, Ivan Klymenko wrote: I think it might be worthwhile to contact nVidia directly about this. To raise awareness that there are people using FreeBSD for HPC and that they very much would like to see OpenCL/CUDA supported. how is this different from getting e.g. native Flash or Matlab on FBSD? We've been trying to raise awareness for years.. So did we for the nvidia driver on amd64. I'm not saying that we will be successful, I'm just saying if they're not even aware of this need that it will never happen. - Pieter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On 08/16/10 16:50, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 05:33:33PM +0300, Ivan Klymenko wrote: I think it might be worthwhile to contact nVidia directly about this. To raise awareness that there are people using FreeBSD for HPC and that they very much would like to see OpenCL/CUDA supported. how is this different from getting e.g. native Flash or Matlab on FBSD? We've been trying to raise awareness for years.. I do not know any scientific group using FreeBSD anymore. Most of those groups used FreeBSD changed to Linux (mostly Redhat, some Ubuntu). Watching Phoronix and their benchmarks speaks clear what OS is the first choice. Well, I like the staright forward, centralised organization and the academic heritage of the BSDs and I would miss ZFS. The essence is: there is no serious reason to convince compiler vendors or vendors of 3D graphics chips of supporting FreeBSD for a specific purpose if there is no need -statistically. AMD/ATi in conjunction with OpenCL/LLVM was a great hope since the GPU vendor offered 3D specs of their chips to opensource vendors. But on the other hand nVidia seems to be much better supported by Gallium3D these days although they haven't offered internal 3d specs. I'm confused and at the end I have to decide. At the moment the comunity of astronomers and astrophysicist is sharing several very interesting N-body simulation code based on CUDA (open source) but users and maybe rare scientists still using FreeBSD are excluded from using those benefits. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On 08/16/10 21:13, Pieter de Goeje wrote: On Monday 16 August 2010 16:50:01 Anton Shterenlikht wrote: On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 05:33:33PM +0300, Ivan Klymenko wrote: I think it might be worthwhile to contact nVidia directly about this. To raise awareness that there are people using FreeBSD for HPC and that they very much would like to see OpenCL/CUDA supported. how is this different from getting e.g. native Flash or Matlab on FBSD? We've been trying to raise awareness for years.. So did we for the nvidia driver on amd64. I'm not saying that we will be successful, I'm just saying if they're not even aware of this need that it will never happen. - Pieter I think they are aware, but the number of users is very, very low. Since modern 3D accerlerated and GPGPU capable drivers are developed dominantly under Linux, BSDs lack in modern architectures like KMS necessary running those modern drivers, so in case of the 64Bit video drivers it could be more a lack in the underlying technical infrastructure than the low number of users. But I do not know. Oliver ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
On Monday 16 August 2010 23:00:52 Hartmann, O. wrote: On 08/16/10 21:13, Pieter de Goeje wrote: On Monday 16 August 2010 16:50:01 Anton Shterenlikht wrote: On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 05:33:33PM +0300, Ivan Klymenko wrote: I think it might be worthwhile to contact nVidia directly about this. To raise awareness that there are people using FreeBSD for HPC and that they very much would like to see OpenCL/CUDA supported. how is this different from getting e.g. native Flash or Matlab on FBSD? We've been trying to raise awareness for years.. So did we for the nvidia driver on amd64. I'm not saying that we will be successful, I'm just saying if they're not even aware of this need that it will never happen. - Pieter I think they are aware, but the number of users is very, very low. Since modern 3D accerlerated and GPGPU capable drivers are developed dominantly under Linux, BSDs lack in modern architectures like KMS necessary running those modern drivers, so in case of the 64Bit video drivers it could be more a lack in the underlying technical infrastructure than the low number of users. But I do not know. Oliver The amd64 driver was an illustration of something where raising awareness or whatever you might call it actually helped IMHO. Unfortunately this is a chicken-and-egg problem. No HPC users means no demand means no incentive to do something about it means no HPC users ad infinitum. But I'm sure you're already knew that. - Pieter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD, GPGPU and OpenCL/CUDA
Hello. The problem behind the subject is a little bit frustrating, so I do not know were to start. I use FreeBSD at my lab and private for scientific stuff. In most cases, FreeBSD performed sufficiently for tasks we/I had to do. But this picture has changed. Modelling atsrodynamical problems I need to order and setup new multicore computer boxes and the preferred OS in mind was still FreeBSD (even 9.0-CURRENT). We use a highly parallelized and CUDA supported modellig software solving symplectic integrational problems (moving stars and planets and even lost of particles in ring systems like saturn). Getting involved with CUDA, I was looking for solutions and tools for usage with FreeBSD (priority is: we need 64 Bit and due to several issues I had with the main infrastructure, like OpenLDAP, Linuxulator isn't a way to go). Since most of my colleagues overseas now use CUDA-supported GPGPU software with Linux, I was looking for some solutions using this software (written in C++ and Fortran 95) with FreeBSD. First, and this hasn't changed since the last 15 years, FreeBSD lack in support of professional Compiler vendors. Pprtland Group offers only Linux compilers, as far as I know Intel does not offer a native FreeBSD 64 Bit compiler. So we are stuck with gcc and gfortran, but this isn't an matter, if OpenCL/CUDA stuff could be used. But there is then the next problem. It seems that there is no real chance getting support for executing high performance code portions of our software in any way on a graphics card (gpu). Most FreeBSD driver doesn't support any 3D acceleration and as far as I know, the driver's support of 3D is essential for GPGPU usage. I looked for nVidia's native 64 Bit driver for FreeBSD, I found it, was happy having it, but then I realised that obviously CUDA isn't usable with this driver, since the CUDA SDK is not to be ported to FreeBSD and not even to 64 Bit FreeBSDs. Well, FreeBSD doesn't support 64 Bit Linuxulator as far as I know, so there is no chance getting software run in 64 bit environments using OpenCL/CUDA with nVidia GPUs, neither natively under FreeBSD nor with a 64Bit Linuxulator, is this right? I havn't looked deeper into AMDs offerings, but I guess since it's silent around OpenCL and AMD-based GPGPU, even with Linux there isn't much. I'm not very close to the GPGPU scene, we even start thinking about porting and developing some mathematical stuff into libraries and thought about OpenCL. Unluckily, in my team I'm the only one utilizing FreeBSD. Maybe someone out here has solved some problems and could email me. Even AMD seems to be a white spot in the subject of GPGPU and FreeBSD for me, maybe someone could shed some light on this. Thanks in advance, Oliver ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
