Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 06:25:07PM +, Paul Schmehl typed: Is there a right way to do things in Unix? Yes there is. But the burden is on the developer/packager. The right way to do things is to leave the choice to the end-user. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! Nick ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
Hi, Nick On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:09 AM, n...@pettefar.com wrote: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! You can set a default desktop by creating $HOME/.xinitrc containing: /usr/local/bin/your_desktop_environment Unless someone beats me to it, I'll take a look at this over the weekend and submit a patch for the handbook. -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:09:04 +0200, n...@pettefar.com wrote: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! Today's X configures automatically. Otherwise, refer to the handbook's section about configuring X. For selecting a default desktop, refer to KDE and Gnome on FreeBSD which you'll find in the handbook, too. Of course you can use XFCE, Fluxbox, FVWM, WindowMaker, Metacity, Enlightenment or any other DE / WM you can think of. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
In response to n...@pettefar.com: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! You weren't able to find this page?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11-wm.html Or this one?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html Nowhere, indeed. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 8:09 AM, n...@pettefar.com wrote: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/x11.html [+] Nick ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Glen Barber wrote: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:09 AM, n...@pettefar.com wrote: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! You can set a default desktop by creating $HOME/.xinitrc containing: /usr/local/bin/your_desktop_environment Unless you're starting X with one of the methods that ignores .xinitrc and looks at .xsession instead, like xdm. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Bill Moranwmo...@potentialtech.com wrote: In response to n...@pettefar.com: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! You weren't able to find this page?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11-wm.html Or this one?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html Nowhere, indeed. I missing the .xinitrc in the GNOME setup as well... Now I just feel like an idiot as usual. -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
n...@pettefar.com wrote: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! Nick You've found the Handbook, so keep on reading! The information you need is on Chapter 5. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:02:38 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: Unless you're starting X with one of the methods that ignores .xinitrc and looks at .xsession instead, like xdm. Exactly this is why I invented the .xinitrc + .xsession double strike. :-) It works perfectly with xdm, and even without xdm, if you run startx from text mode. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
Nowhere up to that point in the Installation chapter and process (I didn't need to have said) did it mention X. What is the point of having a step-by-step installation manual which then concludes with If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. when up to that point it hasn't mentioned X!? Mentioning it three chapters later is not really very helpful to people struggling to get the thing installed step-by-step! Step-by-step guides are difficult to write, especially be people that know a lot about the subject beforehand as details tend to get glossed over. When it doesn't work (as has happened to me) and you have to Ctrl-Alt- Del then you are left feeling lost and confused - a bit like Linux ten years ago. (OpenSuse installed and worked graphically perfect). Shouldn't there be an X configuration stage in the installation process? Nick On 12 Jun 2009, at 15:35, Bill Moran wrote: In response to n...@pettefar.com: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! You weren't able to find this page?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11-wm.html Or this one?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x- config.html Nowhere, indeed. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/ bustard# startx xauth: creating new authority file /root/.serverauth.968 X.Org X Server 1.6.0 Release Date: 2009-2-25 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: FreeBSD 7.2-PRERELEASE i386 Current Operating System: FreeBSD bustard.pettefar.com 7.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE #0: Fri May 1 08:49:13 UTC 2009 r...@walker.cse.buffalo.edu :/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 Build Date: 22 April 2009 02:40:51PM Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: /var/log/Xorg.0.log, Time: Fri Jun 12 17:45:02 2009 (==) Using default built-in configuration (30 lines) (EE) Failed to load module fbdev (module does not exist, 0) xclock: not found ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
n...@pettefar.com wrote: Nowhere up to that point in the Installation chapter and process (I didn't need to have said) did it mention X. What is the point of having a step-by-step installation manual which then concludes with If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. when up to that point it hasn't mentioned X!? Mentioning it three chapters later is not really very helpful to people struggling to get the thing installed step-by-step! The Handbook is not really intended to be a step by step guide, although some chapters serve this purpose in particular areas. The problem (and sometimes, the strength) of step-by-step how-to guides is that they provide specific instructions for specific setups. For example, if you were to write a Guide to a FreeBSD Desktop then obviously this info would appear immediately after the basic install. But bear in mind X is an optional component in FreeBSD, and there are plenty of installations (servers) that don't need it and don't have it. FreeBSD becomes what you want of it, it does not dictate a particular usage. When you install a popular linux distro (like Ubuntu or OpenSuse) you already have a fixed idea of what you will have after a standard install. This is much less so in FreeBSD but you have the power to customize it to your heart's content. This power comes at a price however: you will not be able to be immediately productive with your new system, until you master more than the basics. You have to be more patient, keep on studying and understanding how it works. This knowledge means your system will never break (because you will know how it works, and you will know how to fix it) and its also useful in other systems. (When you learn how X works you can solve GUI problems in Ubuntu too). Please keep up your effort, and be sure FreeBSD will reward you in the end. And we do take documentation very seriously, so please send comments. You are right it is sometimes easy to overlook things that a beginner may stumble upon. Step-by-step guides are difficult to write, especially be people that know a lot about the subject beforehand as details tend to get glossed over. When it doesn't work (as has happened to me) and you have to Ctrl-Alt-Del then you are left feeling lost and confused - a bit like Linux ten years ago. (OpenSuse installed and worked graphically perfect). Shouldn't there be an X configuration stage in the installation process? It would probably be nice to have at least a link to Chapter 5 here. I would suggest to replace this line: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. with something like: If a graphical desktop is desired, the Xorg server and a desktop environment / widow manager will have to be installed and configured. Please see section link to chapter 5 I could do it now, but I believe Glen would like to give it a try ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
--On Friday, June 12, 2009 09:04:50 -0500 Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Bill Moranwmo...@potentialtech.com wrote: In response to n...@pettefar.com: In www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-post.html It says: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. but nowhere in the manual or the installation program is there any information or options on X server configuration or choosing a Default Desktop! Help! You weren't able to find this page?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11-wm.html Or this one?: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html Nowhere, indeed. I missing the .xinitrc in the GNOME setup as well... Now I just feel like an idiot as usual. FreeBSD is Unix, right? That means you can do things any way you want. Presently I login as root on a tty and type kdm to start up the GUI. I've done it about five other ways as well. Is there a right way to do things in Unix? -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** Check the headers before clicking on Reply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.2 Installation Manual
--On Friday, June 12, 2009 12:12:36 -0500 n...@pettefar.com wrote: Nowhere up to that point in the Installation chapter and process (I didn't need to have said) did it mention X. What is the point of having a step-by-step installation manual which then concludes with If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. when up to that point it hasn't mentioned X!? Mentioning it three chapters later is not really very helpful to people struggling to get the thing installed step-by-step! Step-by-step guides are difficult to write, especially be people that know a lot about the subject beforehand as details tend to get glossed over. When it doesn't work (as has happened to me) and you have to Ctrl-Alt- Del then you are left feeling lost and confused - a bit like Linux ten years ago. (OpenSuse installed and worked graphically perfect). Shouldn't there be an X configuration stage in the installation process? That's probably not a bad idea, so long as it's optional. (I don't want X on my servers.) However, another point that I think is worthwhile is that some verbiage should be added to that section to point to Section 5, which explains how to setup Xorg. So perhaps change this: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. To this: If the X server has been configured and a Default Desktop chosen, it can be started by typing startx at the command line. NOTE: If you have not yet installed and configured Xorg (it is not the default), refer to chapter 5 of the Handbook for instructions. Please don't top post. It's confusing as hell. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** Check the headers before clicking on Reply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
