Re: Large imap server.
Bill Campbell writes: Thanks much for sharing the info This server is the primary NFS server with 2GB of RAM, with dual 3GhZ Pentium IVs. While not a truly low-end box, it probably cost about $1,500USD. Ok... so 1 NFS server. This system as one publically accessible MX server that handles all incoming messages 1 MX machine. These four boxes What are the other 2? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Foo Ji-Haw writes: I'm not sure what's the peak traffic like, but we were using a standard P3 800Mhz server h/w w/ 1GB RAM, and SCSI drives. How many of those? Also is that your front-end (ie POP/IMAP) machine or your storage (NFS server) machine? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Bill Campbell writes: Cyrus scaling? We currently user Courier and so far I am far from impressed with it's scalability. We have NFS servers for the storage and then front end machines for the POP/IMAP connections. The footprint per connection is about 3MB to 5MB on the client. On a machine with 2GB that means about 600 connections... but the machines usually are dying around 400 connections. Perhaps on one mongo server. I have read totally the opposity that the only way to scale a mail setup beyond 10s of thousands is with Cyrus .. or some other propietary system. Have note read of any truly large Courier installation. imap from a central server housing home directories, and have seen essentially linear performance as servers are added. How many connections can you handle per front-end machine? What type of configuration? I inheritted the setup I am working with and little by little we are building things right.. including better mail store machines. Also as part of the initial question was which sysctl/kernel settings are usefull in dedicated mail clients/servers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Foo Ji-Haw writes: I've been using FreeBSD + courier IMAP + MySQL (for user authentication). It's hardly a load issue for more than 200,000 users, and that was years ago. Would you mind sharing some info on the setup? First time I read about a courier setup of that size. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2006, Francisco Reyes wrote: Bill Campbell writes: Cyrus scaling? We currently user Courier and so far I am far from impressed with it's scalability. We have NFS servers for the storage and then front end machines for the POP/IMAP connections. The footprint per connection is about 3MB to 5MB on the client. On a machine with 2GB that means about 600 connections... but the machines usually are dying around 400 connections. I'm looking at an ISP's server now with about 7,500 mailboxes with a load average about 0.29 using courier-imap to serve POP and IMAP clients. This server is answering about 4,800 courier connections per hour (mostly POP3). Granted that POP3 connections are typically very short duration compared to IMAP which may be open for extended periods of time. This server is the primary NFS server with 2GB of RAM, with dual 3GhZ Pentium IVs. While not a truly low-end box, it probably cost about $1,500USD. This system as one publically accessible MX server that handles all incoming messages, rejecting about a million connections using a combination of DNSRBLs and postfix rules. It runs all the incoming mail through with postfix, amavisd, and clamav, then passes messages that get through without virii or phishing to one of four boxes that use spamassassin to route spam into spam folders. We chose to run a single incoming MX server since the spammers would simply cycle amongst backup MX servers when rejected. These four boxes run with a load average about 3.0 or less, and have 1GB RAM on 2.66GhZ Celerons -- not exactly high-end boxes these days. The hardware cost of these machines is probably about $600USD each. Any or all of these machines could serve POP and IMAP as well, but we prefer to let them concentrate on spamassassin which is a true RAM hog. Adding capacity in this type of system is trivial, relatively inexpensive, and, other than the central NFS user store, not vulnerable to a single point of failure (each machine has its own openldap server for authentication which can be rebuilt from the master very easily, which can be required as the openldap doesn't respond well to unclean shutdowns). Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 http://www.celestial.com/ You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Specifically my mail server combo was: FreeBSD 4.1 + Qmail + Courier IMAP + MySQL 3.22 Qmail handles all incoming mails. With a simple Perl script using Mail::Audit, incoming mails are dropped to whatever directory is specified by a lookup on the MySQL table. Courier IMAP uses the same table to respond to IMAP connections. Since Maildir is used, we have experienced 0 mail corruptions since we moved away from Sendmail. Hope this helps. - Original Message - From: Francisco Reyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Foo Ji-Haw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:35 AM Subject: Re: Large imap server. Foo Ji-Haw writes: I've been using FreeBSD + courier IMAP + MySQL (for user authentication). It's hardly a load issue for more than 200,000 users, and that was years ago. Would you mind sharing some info on the setup? First time I read about a courier setup of that size. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Foo Ji-Haw writes: Specifically my mail server combo was: FreeBSD 4.1 + Qmail + Courier IMAP + MySQL 3.22 How many clients did each front end machine handled? What was the hardware of the front-end machines? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
I'm not sure what's the peak traffic like, but we were using a standard P3 800Mhz server h/w w/ 1GB RAM, and SCSI drives. - Original Message - From: Francisco Reyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Foo Ji-Haw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Large imap server. Foo Ji-Haw writes: Specifically my mail server combo was: FreeBSD 4.1 + Qmail + Courier IMAP + MySQL 3.22 How many clients did each front end machine handled? What was the hardware of the front-end machines? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Bill Campbell wrote: On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Erik Norgaard wrote: AFAIK cyrus-imap uses a database backend to store mail and has been designed to scale to enterprise systems. The database backend makes indexing and mail lookup faster, but I don't think there's any difference when it comes to retrieving the actual mail. Cyrus scaling? Perhaps on one mongo server. We have installed multiple servers with courier-imap delivering and serving pop and imap from a central server housing home directories, and have seen essentially linear performance as servers are added. One can index mail stores with something like glimpse, but that's probably an issue only were there are huge numbers of messages in individual folders. I don't claim that courier-imap does not scale, in fact, I don't claim anything about courier-imap at all. I simply remark that cyrus-imap has been designed to scale well and this is achieved by using a data base backend. Your comment does not prove me wrong: You seem to indicate that cyrus-imap doesn't scale and refer to a successful install of courier-imap. This doesn't make sense - that logic is flawed. You can only claim that you have found courier-imap scales fine. Well, that's good, then there is choice. Cheers, Erik -- Ph: +34.666334818 web: www.locolomo.org S/MIME Certificate: www.daemonsecurity.com/ca/8D03551FFCE04F06.crt Subject ID: 9E:AA:18:E6:94:7A:91:44:0A:E4:DD:87:73:7F:4E:82:E7:08:9C:72 Fingerprint: 5B:D5:1E:3E:47:E7:EC:1C:4C:C8:3A:19:CC:AE:14:F5:DF:18:0F:B9 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Albert Shih wrote: I search some advice for large imap server. For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes. What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this is not a troll). Any documentation ? AFAIK cyrus-imap uses a database backend to store mail and has been designed to scale to enterprise systems. The database backend makes indexing and mail lookup faster, but I don't think there's any difference when it comes to retrieving the actual mail. Just don't use anything based on mbox file. Cheers, Erik -- Ph: +34.666334818 web: www.locolomo.org S/MIME Certificate: www.daemonsecurity.com/ca/8D03551FFCE04F06.crt Subject ID: 9E:AA:18:E6:94:7A:91:44:0A:E4:DD:87:73:7F:4E:82:E7:08:9C:72 Fingerprint: 5B:D5:1E:3E:47:E7:EC:1C:4C:C8:3A:19:CC:AE:14:F5:DF:18:0F:B9 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Erik Norgaard wrote: Albert Shih wrote: I search some advice for large imap server. For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes. What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this is not a troll). Any documentation ? AFAIK cyrus-imap uses a database backend to store mail and has been designed to scale to enterprise systems. The database backend makes indexing and mail lookup faster, but I don't think there's any difference when it comes to retrieving the actual mail. Cyrus scaling? Perhaps on one mongo server. We have installed multiple servers with courier-imap delivering and serving pop and imap from a central server housing home directories, and have seen essentially linear performance as servers are added. One can index mail stores with something like glimpse, but that's probably an issue only were there are huge numbers of messages in individual folders. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 A child can go only so far in life without potty training. It is not mere coincidence that six of the last seven presidents were potty trained, not to mention nearly half of the nation's state legislators. -- Dave Barry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Le 07/02/2006 à 16:26:42-0800, Bill Campbell a écrit On Tue, Feb 07, 2006, Albert Shih wrote: Hi all I search some advice for large imap server. For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes. What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this is not a troll). I prefer Courier-imap because it uses Maildir storage while Cyrus uses something similar in that it stores each message in a file, but Cyrus also maintains index files which can get corrupted. Yes this is I known, but many «voice» tel me the Cyrus imap is for very huge. But I don't known what's mean «very huge»... We have several systems running courier-imap with 6000+ mailboxes on a single server without problems. And how many mail have every mailboxes ? Whith courier-imap when the user check this mail every 1-2 minutes anyone known if the courier-imap daemon check only on Maildir/new or the daemon check also every Maildir/mailbox1/new Maildir/mailbox2/new etc... Lots of thanks. Regards. -- Albert SHIH Universite de Paris 7 (Denis DIDEROT) U.F.R. de Mathematiques. 7 ième étage, plateau D, bureau 10 Heure local/Local time: Wed Feb 8 21:10:06 CET 2006 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Albert Shih wrote:
Le 07/02/2006 à 16:26:42-0800, Bill Campbell a écrit
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006, Albert Shih wrote:
Hi all
I search some advice for large imap server.
For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every
users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes.
What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this
is not a troll).
I prefer Courier-imap because it uses Maildir storage while Cyrus
uses something similar in that it stores each message in a file,
but Cyrus also maintains index files which can get corrupted.
Yes this is I known, but many «voice» tel me the Cyrus imap is for very
huge. But I don't known what's mean «very huge»...
We have several systems running courier-imap with 6000+ mailboxes
on a single server without problems.
And how many mail have every mailboxes ?
Whith courier-imap when the user check this mail every 1-2 minutes anyone
known if the courier-imap daemon check only on
Maildir/new
or the daemon check also every
Maildir/mailbox1/new
Maildir/mailbox2/new
I think that depends on the e-mail client. The default INBOX for
courier is $HOME/Maildir/{cur,new,tmp}, and each folder will be
in $HOME/Maildir/.foldername/{cur,new,tmp}. The client issues
the IMAP commands to check folders.
POP clients will only see the default INBOX, and these tend to
download the new messages on every connection leaving the
mailboxes empty.
IMAP clients tend to stay connected for extended periods of time
(as I found when using WHOSON to permit mail relaying by
connecting clients, and modified the whoson processing to update
the daemon server on every authenticated IMAP command).
Bill
--
INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
``People from East Germany have found the West so confusing. It's so much
easier when you have only one party.'' -- Linus Torvalde, Linux Expo Canada
when asked about confusion over many Linux distributions.
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Re: Large imap server.
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Albert Shih wrote: Le 07/02/2006 à 16:26:42-0800, Bill Campbell a écrit On Tue, Feb 07, 2006, Albert Shih wrote: Hi all I search some advice for large imap server. For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes. What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this is not a troll). I prefer Courier-imap because it uses Maildir storage while Cyrus uses something similar in that it stores each message in a file, but Cyrus also maintains index files which can get corrupted. We have several systems running courier-imap with 6000+ mailboxes on a single server without problems. Lots of thanks for you answer but what kind of server (hardware) you have ? Pretty standard Intel machines ranging from 1GhZ Pentium IIIs on up. The major factor is whether you're planning on running spamassassin on incoming mail. SA is a huge memory hog. One of our regional ISP customers with just under 10,000 mail users has one machine that receives all incoming mail, runing postfix, amavisd-new, and clamav to trap incoming worms and phishing attacks. It uses several DNSRBLs and postfix checking features to minimize the amount of incoming spam. The load average on this box averages about 0.35. Mail that's accepted is then forwarded to one of four machines that then deliver mail to the user's mailboxes, and also provide POP and IMAP services to any of the users. These machines are running single 2.65GhZ Celeraons with 1GB of RAM, and their load average is around 2.5, rarely getting higher than 4.0. These machines use ldap authentication, and the user's home directories are NFS mounted to the main server. The hostnames for internal mail delivery, and for pop/imap services have multiple IP addresses pointing to the delivery servers which provides simple load balancing. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 ``Now if there is one thing that we do worse than any other nation, it is try and manage somebody else's affairs.'' Will Rogers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
I've been using FreeBSD + courier IMAP + MySQL (for user authentication).
It's hardly a load issue for more than 200,000 users, and that was years
ago.
- Original Message -
From: Bill Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Large imap server.
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Albert Shih wrote:
Le 07/02/2006 à 16:26:42-0800, Bill Campbell a écrit
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006, Albert Shih wrote:
Hi all
I search some advice for large imap server.
For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every
users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes.
What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please
this
is not a troll).
I prefer Courier-imap because it uses Maildir storage while Cyrus
uses something similar in that it stores each message in a file,
but Cyrus also maintains index files which can get corrupted.
Yes this is I known, but many «voice» tel me the Cyrus imap is for very
huge. But I don't known what's mean «very huge»...
We have several systems running courier-imap with 6000+ mailboxes
on a single server without problems.
And how many mail have every mailboxes ?
Whith courier-imap when the user check this mail every 1-2 minutes anyone
known if the courier-imap daemon check only on
Maildir/new
or the daemon check also every
Maildir/mailbox1/new
Maildir/mailbox2/new
I think that depends on the e-mail client. The default INBOX for
courier is $HOME/Maildir/{cur,new,tmp}, and each folder will be
in $HOME/Maildir/.foldername/{cur,new,tmp}. The client issues
the IMAP commands to check folders.
POP clients will only see the default INBOX, and these tend to
download the new messages on every connection leaving the
mailboxes empty.
IMAP clients tend to stay connected for extended periods of time
(as I found when using WHOSON to permit mail relaying by
connecting clients, and modified the whoson processing to update
the daemon server on every authenticated IMAP command).
Bill
--
INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206)
236-1676
``People from East Germany have found the West so confusing. It's so much
easier when you have only one party.'' -- Linus Torvalde, Linux Expo
Canada
when asked about confusion over many Linux distributions.
___
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to
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Large imap server.
Hi all I search some advice for large imap server. For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes. What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this is not a troll). What's kind of tunning I can make on my FreeBSD kernel ? sysctl ? Any documentation ? Regards. -- Albert SHIH Universite de Paris 7 (Denis DIDEROT) U.F.R. de Mathematiques. 7 ième étage, plateau D, bureau 10 Heure local/Local time: Tue Feb 7 23:19:37 CET 2006 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006, Albert Shih wrote: Hi all I search some advice for large imap server. For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes. What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this is not a troll). I prefer Courier-imap because it uses Maildir storage while Cyrus uses something similar in that it stores each message in a file, but Cyrus also maintains index files which can get corrupted. We have several systems running courier-imap with 6000+ mailboxes on a single server without problems. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Systems, Inc. URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 ``But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.'' -- Frederic Bastiat, The Law ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Large imap server.
Hello, Bill Campbell wrote: On Tue, Feb 07, 2006, Albert Shih wrote: I search some advice for large imap server. For me large is : 1000 users with 1 Go mails for each users. And every users check by imap/pop those mail every 2 or 3 minutes. What's the «best» imap server ? Cyrus Imap or Courier-Imap ? (please this is not a troll). I prefer Courier-imap because it uses Maildir storage while Cyrus uses something similar in that it stores each message in a file, but Cyrus also maintains index files which can get corrupted. We have several systems running courier-imap with 6000+ mailboxes on a single server without problems. Dovecot has also nice feature of proxying :) - see more: http://wiki.dovecot.org/ImapProxy Cheers, Martin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
