Re: Manual updates
On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 08:12:54PM -, Andy Kendall wrote: As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. In my opinion it relies on far too high a plateau of knowledge by it's readers to be of initial use. Am I really that thick or does anyone else feel this way? Do the email list respondents find themselves answering the same questions over and over? Is there some way I can help to upgrade the manual entries with the detail I find necessary to get things working and understand how they work, thereby hopefully benefiting following newbs? You are welcome to submit improvements to the handbook or man pages. The procedure is well documented on the web page. Is there a FreeBSD for dummies? Probably a combination of the FAQ and numerous web pages with howto lists that are out there in web-land make up the FreeBSd for dummies.I don't know of any specific publshed book of that nature, but there are several good ones that might be called FreeBSD for smart people. jerry Thanks Andy (very frustrated) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/03/07, Paulette McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. what's missing? i think it's quite detailed . . . Yes, the handbook is quite detailed; however there are somethings missing. Not to start a flame war; these are just a few thoughts and they are in my humble opinion. . . . 1) Update ports 1a) CVS 2b) portsnap 2) Build INDEX (depends on the tool; identify tools). Also what are the pro's and con's of obtaining the index from the methods listed below. 2a) make index 2b) make fetchindex 2c) portsdb -Uu 3) Use Tool 'X' to update / upgrade your ports . . . Now, one other issue; off the top of my head: pkgtools.conf. How does pkgtools.conf interact with the makefile in their respective ports directory? 1) Does it completely override it? 2) Does if it take a diff between the two and build the app? portsdb is part of portupgrade, not at all part of the base system. Similarly, pkgtools.conf, being located in /usr/local/etc/ is used by portupgrade (and another ports management tool?) which is not at all part of the base system. portupgrade has quite a bit of documentation on its use, but I am not certain how this third party ruby script dovetails with a discussion of the (de)merits of FreeBSD's handbook. Obviously with enough time and effort a complete set of documents for 6.2 could be compiled and vetted for accuracy, although just like the current handbook and other documentation, it would fall out of date exactly as fast as new code would be added. Keeping up to date with third party applications (ruby scripts!) would exacerbate rather than ameliorate this effect. -- -- Hello illoai, With respect to you statement: My reply was how the handbook could be improved for new users. Nothing in the world is perfect; and if the FreeBSD experience can be improved for users, I am all for it. I did a little writing and was hoping for feed back so eventually I could submit that information back to the doc project. portupgrade has quite a bit of documentation on its use, but I am not certain how this third party ruby script dovetails with a discussion of the (de)merits The topic at hand was improving documentation and I put in my .02 cents worth when a question was posed. Perhaps this discussion should take place on another mailing list. But this discussion may add some interest of the skilled users on this list to potentially contribute. So, there may be a positive to this dovetail. :-) As it stands the FreeBSD Handbook is a great piece of documentation. In my humble opinion it can be better; and I am more than willing to spend the time. although just like the current handbook and other documentation, it would fall out of date exactly as fast as new code would be added. Portupgrade has been part of the upgrade (system admin) process for quite some time and the process of upgrading ports has been somewhat consistent over time. All I would like to see is the process identified for updating software. The topic of installing software and updating software is important; and should be expounded upon. Just my humble opinion. As I stated: This topic should be carried out on another list. Regards, Paulette McGee Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Paulette McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) Update ports 1a) CVS 2b) portsnap 2) Build INDEX (depends on the tool; identify tools). Also what are the pro's and con's of obtaining the index from the methods listed below. 2a) make index 2b) make fetchindex 2c) portsdb -Uu portsnap automatically updates INDEX. And no build tool, other than portupgrade, needs it. 3) Use Tool 'X' to update / upgrade your ports ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manual updates
As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. In my opinion it relies on far too high a plateau of knowledge by it's readers to be of initial use. Am I really that thick or does anyone else feel this way? Do the email list respondents find themselves answering the same questions over and over? Is there some way I can help to upgrade the manual entries with the detail I find necessary to get things working and understand how they work, thereby hopefully benefiting following newbs? Is there a FreeBSD for dummies? Thanks Andy (very frustrated) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
On 3/11/07, Andy Kendall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. In my opinion it relies on far too high a plateau of knowledge by it's readers to be of initial use. Am I really that thick or does anyone else feel this way? Do the email list respondents find themselves answering the same questions over and over? Is there some way I can help to upgrade the manual entries with the detail I find necessary to get things working and understand how they work, thereby hopefully benefiting following newbs? Is there a FreeBSD for dummies? I agree. I've been using FreeBSD for more than 7 years. I love it, but it has taken me a while to get to this point. Others I know also have trouble with it initially. A lot of that is due to the installer and what they find on www.freebsd.org. I think the reason for that is most of the core people spend most of their time in the core of the system, since most users are people who have been using unix for a long time and so already know a lot about it. With that said (typed), I think it has steadily improved. If you have some time to spare, you can join the documentation project - http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/who.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. what's missing? i think it's quite detailed ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
--- Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. what's missing? i think it's quite detailed ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Wojciech, Yes, the handbook is quite detailed; however there are somethings missing. Not to start a flame war; these are just a few thoughts and they are in my humble opinion. 1) Upgrading Ports: There is a general overview of how ports should be upgraded. Now the part that is lacking is the index. Looking at section 4.5 in the handbook there is no mention of the INDEX files. Some update tools like portupgrade require the use of the INDEX file. You don't see the mention of the INDEX until you get to section A.6. Section A.6 is dedicated to portsnap. Now if the user doesn't use port snap but cvs; then they miss that point that you need the INDEX. Now getting or building the INDEX can be done if various ways via make or portsdb. But it my humble opinion; the explanation or the process can be explained better. Please correct me if I am wrong (anyone) but a simple out line that goes into the process (IE): 1) Update ports 1a) CVS 2b) portsnap 2) Build INDEX (depends on the tool; identify tools). Also what are the pro's and con's of obtaining the index from the methods listed below. 2a) make index 2b) make fetchindex 2c) portsdb -Uu 3) Use Tool 'X' to update / upgrade your ports The above is just a brief illustration about how the process can be improved. Please understand that this is my humble opinion; I am not looking to start a flame war. Now, one other issue; off the top of my head: pkgtools.conf. How does pkgtools.conf interact with the makefile in their respective ports directory? 1) Does it completely override it? 2) Does if it take a diff between the two and build the app? Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. All I wanted to do was answer the question as well as point out what I think could be improved. PS: I wish the old section of the handbook the anatomy of a port was put back in the handbook. Just my .02 cents worth. Regards, Paulette McGee We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
Hello Wojciech, Yes, the handbook is quite detailed; however there are somethings missing. Not to start a flame war; these are just a few thoughts and they are in my humble opinion. why you don't write such part and fixes? i am sure it will be included in new releases if you only post them ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
--- Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Wojciech, Yes, the handbook is quite detailed; however there are somethings missing. Not to start a flame war; these are just a few thoughts and they are in my humble opinion. why you don't write such part and fixes? i am sure it will be included in new releases if you only post them Actually that was written and submitted to the doc project under an email address. Never heard a word back. Here is a link to an archived email that points to the email as well as the respective changes. Email was submitted for review on: Tue Aug 15 00:31:14 UTC 2006 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-doc/2006-August/010934.html Regards Paulette McGee Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
Wojciech Puchar wrote: As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. what's missing? i think it's quite detailed I started with Linux years ago. I tried several versions and only Slackware was useable, and only because the lists were such great help. There was of course the RH books, not any better than Slackware Unleashed or the FreeBSD Handbook. In frustration I tried FreeBSD and got it up and running all by myself using the book, I was impressed. Once I found SeaFug I really got rolling. Overall I think the FreeBSD Handbook is one of the best. It doesn't have as much detail as it could, but it takes time and people to create such things. If FreeBSD is lacking in documentation it is not the book, it is because Linux has the enormous How To library available to new users. Funny thing though, I used most of the Linux How To docs when first learning FreeBSD. As far as applications and services go like Samba, NIS, NFS, etc. Most of the Linux How To docs work with FreeBSD. DAve -- Three years now I've asked Google why they don't have a logo change for Memorial Day. Why do they choose to do logos for other non-international holidays, but nothing for Veterans? Maybe they forgot who made that choice possible. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Manual updates
On 11/03/07, Paulette McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a newb to FreeBSD I find that the manual/handbook is not great in detail, (understatement), and I seem to be relying on this questions list for a lot of help. what's missing? i think it's quite detailed . . . Yes, the handbook is quite detailed; however there are somethings missing. Not to start a flame war; these are just a few thoughts and they are in my humble opinion. . . . 1) Update ports 1a) CVS 2b) portsnap 2) Build INDEX (depends on the tool; identify tools). Also what are the pro's and con's of obtaining the index from the methods listed below. 2a) make index 2b) make fetchindex 2c) portsdb -Uu 3) Use Tool 'X' to update / upgrade your ports . . . Now, one other issue; off the top of my head: pkgtools.conf. How does pkgtools.conf interact with the makefile in their respective ports directory? 1) Does it completely override it? 2) Does if it take a diff between the two and build the app? portsdb is part of portupgrade, not at all part of the base system. Similarly, pkgtools.conf, being located in /usr/local/etc/ is used by portupgrade (and another ports management tool?) which is not at all part of the base system. portupgrade has quite a bit of documentation on its use, but I am not certain how this third party ruby script dovetails with a discussion of the (de)merits of FreeBSD's handbook. Obviously with enough time and effort a complete set of documents for 6.2 could be compiled and vetted for accuracy, although just like the current handbook and other documentation, it would fall out of date exactly as fast as new code would be added. Keeping up to date with third party applications (ruby scripts!) would exacerbate rather than ameliorate this effect. -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
