Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
--- Artem Koutchine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > I need sime kind of network file system which has a > FreeBSD server and > Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that > FreeBSD file share > must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive letter. > Windows client > is FAR FAR away and is behind nat. Traffic costs a > lot, so that file system > must not waste it for nothing. Of course, security > is very important and > security based on IP address is impossible, because > client is behind nat. > > I have checked the following: > > 1) Samba3 > > I think i could use it with user security (not share > or maybe mixed) but > i am not sure about making it open to internet and > also i think it wastes > bandwidth. Am i wrong? > > 2) Coda FS > > Nice thing, but i could not figure out how to manage > user passwords > and there is no working windows xp client. I tried > it - not luck for me. > > 3) AFS > > No idea is AFS Windows client exists and no FreeBSD > server. > > 4) NFS > > Well, i like it very much because we use for freebsd > file shareing since > year 2000. Hoever, i could not find free NFS client > for Windows (but, hell, > i'll buy it) but what's worse i get figure out how > to make authorizartion based on > user/password and not on /etc/exports. I need > something more secure. Also, > am not sure about bandwidth usage. > > Any help will be very appriciated. > > > Regards, > Artem Kuchin > General Director of IT Legion Ltd. > Russia, Moscow > www.itlegion.ru > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > +7 095 232-0338 > > ___ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > Hello, I would like to offer an appology for the off topic response: Just a side note about a free NFS client for Windows: "Microsoft's Windows Services for UNIX Now Available Free of Charge" http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5675 Microsoft SFU is made by Interix.com, which in turn is based on OpenBSD. If I am not mistaken, they do have an NFS client. http://www.asia.microsoft.com/technet/itsolutions/interop/sfu/nfsauth.mspx "Client for NFS The Windows NFS client component of SFUv3. Client for NFS allows the machine on which it is installed to access and use NFS resources anywhere on the network" Pete __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
On Wednesday 14 July 2004 11:26 am, Bill Moran wrote: > "Artem Kuchin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD > > > > server and Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that > > > > FreeBSD file share must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive > > > > letter. Windows client is FAR FAR away and is behind nat. > > > > Traffic costs a lot, so that file > > > > system > > > > > > must not waste it for nothing. Of course, security is very > > > > important and security based on IP address is impossible, > > > > because client is behind > > > > nat. > > > > > > I have checked the following: > > > > So, basically you are saying that there is no solution for what i > > need? WinSCP does not suit my needs, because people on windows > > client must be able to work on files (mostly html) using different > > software and it is not just > > about moving then around, but rather editing with special editors > > and after editing they must see the result right away on the web > > server. > > In my experience, no, there is no solution to your problem. The > resason is this: > > 1) You expect people to be able to work on mapped drives (i.e. z:) > 2) You are trying to hold down the bandwidth usage > > These two goals are contradictary. You'll have to give up one or the > other (unless there's some filesystem technology out there that I'm > not familiar with) > > No matter how efficient the file-sharing protocol is, the fact that > you've got the filesystem mounted as a network drive will push tons > of extra data through the pipe. Windows is not used to high-latency > links for file- sharing, thus the performance will be noticably bad. > In my experienc, Windows users don't understand the idea of latency > either, thus they will click on something three times when they > should just wait for it to finish loading, thus generating more > bandwidth. Also, directory listings, polling for changes to > directories and all sorts of other things that Windows does with > drives will push tons of network traffic across the link, thus > driving up your costs. > > This has been my experience. Perhaps your users are smarter and more > disciplined than the people I was working with, but mounting a > network drive under windows carries a lot of traffic with it as > baggage. I've never measured exactly how much, but it's more than > most people realize. For example, I've found that a 1.5mb/sec T1 line > isn't really fast enough for a single SMB mounted drive. > > If I were you, I'd set up some sort of tunnel and run a pilot test > with 1 user. I don't expect you'll be happy with the results, but it > is possible that I didn't set things up as well as could be the last > time I did this. Just be aware of the network traffic, as it ended up > being a lot more than I expected. > > You'll probably have better results setting up some sort of terminal > serer (either VNC or MS terminal server) and allowing users to work > on the remote files that way. Terminal servers still use a lot of > bandwidth, but they're designed for slow links, so it's not quite as > bad (this may or may not be the same in your scenerio, as working > with HTML files might not generate as much traffic as the MS Access > files we were working with). This is probably very bandwidth intensive (please correct me if I'm wrong); but provides another option. I've been sharing files with relatives across the US using WebDav and SSL (on Apache2). Basically, I setup a secure web server (port 443?), blocked port 80, implemented user-password authorization in Apache2 and activated webdav on the shared folders. Authorized Windows users mount "web folders", which appear as drive letters. The use of SSL protects the username/password as well as the content in transit. Best of luck, Andrew Gould ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
In the last episode (Jul 14), Artem Kuchin said: > > > I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD > > > server and Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that > > > FreeBSD file share must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive > > > letter. Windows > > > > For any of the solutions you describe, you will definitely want to > > set up a VPN between the client and server, and if possible have it > > compress the data. Never allow raw filesystem access to the entire > > Internet :) > > Yes, i understand that. However, i wonder how to make a VPN with > compression and also the scheme is like this: > > file server with real ip <-> natd <-> cleints > > So, clients do no have real IP addresses and stay behind nat server > which serves many people who are not the clients of the file server. > Is it possible to setup VPN in such situation? Yes, as long as the natd is set to allow the VPN packets to pass through. The exact packet type depends on the VPN; a tcpdump of some part of the network between client and natd will show that (Ethereal installed directly on the client PC should also work). -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
"Artem Kuchin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD server and > > > Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that FreeBSD file share > > > must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive letter. Windows client > > > is FAR FAR away and is behind nat. Traffic costs a lot, so that file > system > > > must not waste it for nothing. Of course, security is very important and > > > security based on IP address is impossible, because client is behind > nat. > > > > > > I have checked the following: > So, basically you are saying that there is no solution for what i need? > WinSCP does not suit my needs, because people on windows client must > be able to work on files (mostly html) using different software and it is > not just > about moving then around, but rather editing with special editors and after > editing they must see the result right away on the web server. In my experience, no, there is no solution to your problem. The resason is this: 1) You expect people to be able to work on mapped drives (i.e. z:) 2) You are trying to hold down the bandwidth usage These two goals are contradictary. You'll have to give up one or the other (unless there's some filesystem technology out there that I'm not familiar with) No matter how efficient the file-sharing protocol is, the fact that you've got the filesystem mounted as a network drive will push tons of extra data through the pipe. Windows is not used to high-latency links for file- sharing, thus the performance will be noticably bad. In my experienc, Windows users don't understand the idea of latency either, thus they will click on something three times when they should just wait for it to finish loading, thus generating more bandwidth. Also, directory listings, polling for changes to directories and all sorts of other things that Windows does with drives will push tons of network traffic across the link, thus driving up your costs. This has been my experience. Perhaps your users are smarter and more disciplined than the people I was working with, but mounting a network drive under windows carries a lot of traffic with it as baggage. I've never measured exactly how much, but it's more than most people realize. For example, I've found that a 1.5mb/sec T1 line isn't really fast enough for a single SMB mounted drive. If I were you, I'd set up some sort of tunnel and run a pilot test with 1 user. I don't expect you'll be happy with the results, but it is possible that I didn't set things up as well as could be the last time I did this. Just be aware of the network traffic, as it ended up being a lot more than I expected. You'll probably have better results setting up some sort of terminal serer (either VNC or MS terminal server) and allowing users to work on the remote files that way. Terminal servers still use a lot of bandwidth, but they're designed for slow links, so it's not quite as bad (this may or may not be the same in your scenerio, as working with HTML files might not generate as much traffic as the MS Access files we were working with). -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
> > I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD server > > and Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that FreeBSD file > > share must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive letter. Windows > > For any of the solutions you describe, you will definitely want to set > up a VPN between the client and server, and if possible have it > compress the data. Never allow raw filesystem access to the entire > Internet :) Yes, i understand that. However, i wonder how to make a VPN with compression and also the scheme is like this: file server with real ip <-> natd <-> cleints So, clients do no have real IP addresses and stay behind nat server which serves many people who are not the clients of the file server. Is it possible to setup VPN in such situation? Artem ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
> > I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD server and > > Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that FreeBSD file share > > must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive letter. Windows client > > is FAR FAR away and is behind nat. Traffic costs a lot, so that file system > > must not waste it for nothing. Of course, security is very important and > > security based on IP address is impossible, because client is behind nat. > > > > I have checked the following: > > > > 1) Samba3 > > > > I think i could use it with user security (not share or maybe mixed) but > > i am not sure about making it open to internet and also i think it wastes > > bandwidth. Am i wrong? > > Don't use Samba. It's insecure over the Internet, and it's a bandwidth > hog. Very nice for 100mb/sec local filesystems, though. > > > 4) NFS > > > > Well, i like it very much because we use for freebsd file shareing since > > year 2000. Hoever, i could not find free NFS client for Windows (but, hell, > > i'll buy it) but what's worse i get figure out how to make authorizartion based on > > user/password and not on /etc/exports. I need something more secure. Also, > > am not sure about bandwidth usage. > > It's slightly better than SMB, but still has both problems. If you run it > over the Internet, you need to do some sort of encrypted tunnel on top. > > I highly recommend setting up sshd on FreeBSD and using WinSCP to move > files around. Secure, designed for slow links (thus bandwidth efficient) > and WinSCP is almost as easy to use as Windows explorer. > So, basically you are saying that there is no solution for what i need? WinSCP does not suit my needs, because people on windows client must be able to work on files (mostly html) using different software and it is not just about moving then around, but rather editing with special editors and after editing they must see the result right away on the web server. i hope i'll find some solution. Your idea about tunnelling is good, i need to check if i can do it if one end of a tunnel is behind nat. Artem ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
In the last episode (Jul 14), Artem Koutchine said: > I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD server > and Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that FreeBSD file > share must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive letter. Windows > client is FAR FAR away and is behind nat. Traffic costs a lot, so > that file system must not waste it for nothing. Of course, security > is very important and security based on IP address is impossible, > because client is behind nat. For any of the solutions you describe, you will definitely want to set up a VPN between the client and server, and if possible have it compress the data. Never allow raw filesystem access to the entire Internet :) > 1) Samba3 > > I think i could use it with user security (not share or maybe mixed) > but i am not sure about making it open to internet and also i think > it wastes bandwidth. Am i wrong? It should be no more inefficient than any of the others, really. Theres a different amount of overhead for each protocol, but they're all small compared to the actual data sent when doing a file copy, for example. > 4) NFS > > Well, i like it very much because we use for freebsd file shareing > since year 2000. Hoever, i could not find free NFS client for Windows > (but, hell, i'll buy it) but what's worse i get figure out how to > make authorizartion based on user/password and not on /etc/exports. I > need something more secure. Also, am not sure about bandwidth usage. Microsoft has a nice NFS client/server implementation in its free Services for Unix product. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/sfu/ . If you use VPNs, you should be able to control the local IP number that gets assigned to each VPN user, so you could use that to filter access in /etc/exports (and use the -mapall flag to force specific userids for each incoming IP). -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
"Artem Koutchine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD server and > Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that FreeBSD file share > must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive letter. Windows client > is FAR FAR away and is behind nat. Traffic costs a lot, so that file system > must not waste it for nothing. Of course, security is very important and > security based on IP address is impossible, because client is behind nat. > > I have checked the following: > > 1) Samba3 > > I think i could use it with user security (not share or maybe mixed) but > i am not sure about making it open to internet and also i think it wastes > bandwidth. Am i wrong? Don't use Samba. It's insecure over the Internet, and it's a bandwidth hog. Very nice for 100mb/sec local filesystems, though. > 4) NFS > > Well, i like it very much because we use for freebsd file shareing since > year 2000. Hoever, i could not find free NFS client for Windows (but, hell, > i'll buy it) but what's worse i get figure out how to make authorizartion based on > user/password and not on /etc/exports. I need something more secure. Also, > am not sure about bandwidth usage. It's slightly better than SMB, but still has both problems. If you run it over the Internet, you need to do some sort of encrypted tunnel on top. I highly recommend setting up sshd on FreeBSD and using WinSCP to move files around. Secure, designed for slow links (thus bandwidth efficient) and WinSCP is almost as easy to use as Windows explorer. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Need a network file system with Windows client and freeBSD server
Hi! I need sime kind of network file system which has a FreeBSD server and Windows clients (particulary Windows XP) and that FreeBSD file share must be mounted on Windows XP under a drive letter. Windows client is FAR FAR away and is behind nat. Traffic costs a lot, so that file system must not waste it for nothing. Of course, security is very important and security based on IP address is impossible, because client is behind nat. I have checked the following: 1) Samba3 I think i could use it with user security (not share or maybe mixed) but i am not sure about making it open to internet and also i think it wastes bandwidth. Am i wrong? 2) Coda FS Nice thing, but i could not figure out how to manage user passwords and there is no working windows xp client. I tried it - not luck for me. 3) AFS No idea is AFS Windows client exists and no FreeBSD server. 4) NFS Well, i like it very much because we use for freebsd file shareing since year 2000. Hoever, i could not find free NFS client for Windows (but, hell, i'll buy it) but what's worse i get figure out how to make authorizartion based on user/password and not on /etc/exports. I need something more secure. Also, am not sure about bandwidth usage. Any help will be very appriciated. Regards, Artem Kuchin General Director of IT Legion Ltd. Russia, Moscow www.itlegion.ru [EMAIL PROTECTED] +7 095 232-0338 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
