Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Unga wrote: --- Manolis Kiagias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Hope following ideas may help you. 1. Article is too long. You have a note before the introduction, then introduction and Understanding journaling in FreeBSD. I appreciate brevity. The introduction and Understanding journaling in FreeBSD would be suffice. and edit them for brevity. The note before the introduction is the abstract, and seems to be a standard feature in articles. You are right though, some parts should be shortened, information is repeated. The note before the introduction is good enough as an introduction, 2. Ideally have a table of contents. Table of contents will be produced by the build system when the article is split into several pages (FORMATS=html-split), for my test I compiled it with FORMATS=html 3. Ideally prerequisites as a separate section. 4. A new section on How to estimate journal size I would really like to have a method on estimating size, however I don't have enough test cases. This will have to wait for the next revision. 5. Split Setting up journaling to sub sections: - Data and journal in the same partition - Data and journal in the multiple partitions/disks Already working on this ;) 6. A new section on how to extend the size of the journal (if later find too small) Would this be possible at all? It would mean you have more available free disk space. In that case you would simply remove the old journal and use the new one. I will mention this 7. Further reading: - Journaling UFS with gjournal - http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2006-June/064043.html - Journaling file system - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journaling_file_system - UFS2 Journaling implementation detail - http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2008-April/173501.html - FreeBSD/ZFS - Last word in operating/file systems - http://2007.eurobsdcon.org/presentations/Pawel_Jakub_Dawidek/eurobsdcon07_zfs.pdf Kind Regards Unga Thanks. I will add your links to a Further reading section. P.S. Just realized I've sent this answer to your email only and not on the list. Apologies. Also note my comment on table of contents is probably incorrect. But I will probably add reference links between sections. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
The note before the introduction is the abstract, and seems to be a standard feature in articles. You are right though, some parts should be shortened, information is repeated. after reading this article i am even more sure that this gjournal is a quick and quite primitive hack, not real journalling. as it needs GB or more space - it shows it journals almost everything, means everything is written twice. looks like softupdates was too good and people wanted something worse ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:00 PM, Manolis Kiagias wrote: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/ article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Thanks, Manolis ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] A kernel panic will occur if the journal space is exhausted before it has a chance to be committed. So the intended behavior is for the kernel to give up(instead of keep trying and maintain reliability), and risk data loss? With a compliant hard drive that doesn't reorder writes, how is journaling better than soft updates? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Joshua Isom wrote: On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:00 PM, Manolis Kiagias wrote: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Thanks, Manolis ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] A kernel panic will occur if the journal space is exhausted before it has a chance to be committed. So the intended behavior is for the kernel to give up(instead of keep trying and maintain reliability), and risk data loss? With a compliant hard drive that doesn't reorder writes, how is journaling better than soft updates? I was referring mainly to this post: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2008-April/173501.html Obviously I am no expert on the subject, but it seems to me that since the journal should keep the filesystem consistent, if it fills up and can't commit all the bits to disk, it would be better not to commit anything. Sure, you may lose data but not the filesystem. Having said that, the article only deals with the use of journaling on a typical desktop. I am already using default 1Gb journals on all my desktop systems (at least one works for a few hours under quite heavy load) and a home server for an individual who constantly copies several very large files over gigabit net (gjournal+gmirror in his case). I have never encountered any problem. YMMV, proceed with care. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
--- Manolis Kiagias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Hope following ideas may help you. 1. Article is too long. You have a note before the introduction, then introduction and Understanding journaling in FreeBSD. I appreciate brevity. The introduction and Understanding journaling in FreeBSD would be suffice. and edit them for brevity. The note before the introduction is good enough as an introduction, 2. Ideally have a table of contents. 3. Ideally prerequisites as a separate section. 4. A new section on How to estimate journal size 5. Split Setting up journaling to sub sections: - Data and journal in the same partition - Data and journal in the multiple partitions/disks 6. A new section on how to extend the size of the journal (if later find too small) 7. Further reading: - Journaling UFS with gjournal - http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2006-June/064043.html - Journaling file system - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journaling_file_system - UFS2 Journaling implementation detail - http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2008-April/173501.html - FreeBSD/ZFS - Last word in operating/file systems - http://2007.eurobsdcon.org/presentations/Pawel_Jakub_Dawidek/eurobsdcon07_zfs.pdf Kind Regards Unga Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Thanks, Manolis ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Manolis Kiagias escribió: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Nice work like the other one! I won't have time till Monday, but I'd be more then happy to review and commit this article if you can send me the sources. Regards, Gábor Kövesdán ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Gabor Kovesdan wrote: Manolis Kiagias escribió: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Nice work like the other one! I won't have time till Monday, but I'd be more then happy to review and commit this article if you can send me the sources. Regards, Gábor Kövesdán Thanks Gabor, I will certainly send you the sources, probably on Monday. I am still polishing the markup (and content) a bit, and I would also like to get some comments from people who are using / are familiar with journaling. Thanks again Manolis ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Gabor Kovesdan wrote: Manolis Kiagias escribió: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Nice work like the other one! I won't have time till Monday, but I'd be more then happy to review and commit this article if you can send me the sources. Regards, Gábor Kövesdán ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The man page for gjournal does not say what unit to use when specifying the journal size with the -s option. Sectors? GB? Anything else? Or is there a default (say sectors) that can be changed by using a suffix, like -s 10G? -- Sincerly, Rolf Nielsen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Rolf G Nielsen wrote: Gabor Kovesdan wrote: Manolis Kiagias escribió: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Nice work like the other one! I won't have time till Monday, but I'd be more then happy to review and commit this article if you can send me the sources. Regards, Gábor Kövesdán ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The man page for gjournal does not say what unit to use when specifying the journal size with the -s option. Sectors? GB? Anything else? Or is there a default (say sectors) that can be changed by using a suffix, like -s 10G? You are right, although it does say the default is 1Gb. However the jsize option is only available when both data journal are stored on the same provider, and the article does not deal with this, as it uses separate providers for data and journal. I could give this a try on my virtual setup and see what kind of unit is used. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Manolis Kiagias wrote: Rolf G Nielsen wrote: Gabor Kovesdan wrote: Manolis Kiagias escribió: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Nice work like the other one! I won't have time till Monday, but I'd be more then happy to review and commit this article if you can send me the sources. Regards, Gábor Kövesdán ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The man page for gjournal does not say what unit to use when specifying the journal size with the -s option. Sectors? GB? Anything else? Or is there a default (say sectors) that can be changed by using a suffix, like -s 10G? You are right, although it does say the default is 1Gb. However the jsize option is only available when both data journal are stored on the same provider, and the article does not deal with this, as it uses separate providers for data and journal. I could give this a try on my virtual setup and see what kind of unit is used. Just tested, and the size is in bytes. By the way, using the same provider for journal and data is only possible when done on empty space or on an unneeded filesystem (all data is erased). Maybe I should add(?) a small howto section for this condition as well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Article on implementing UFS journaling on desktop PCs
Manolis Kiagias wrote: Rolf G Nielsen wrote: Gabor Kovesdan wrote: Manolis Kiagias escribió: I have just completed an article (mostly how-to) for implementing UFS journaling on a typical desktop PC: http://store.itsyourftp.com/~sonic2000gr/freebsd/gjournal-desktop/article.html It focuses on detailing an easy to follow, repeatable procedure, to install FreeBSD on a typical PC and enable journaling on /usr and possibly /var. I am using this same procedure on my systems. I welcome all feedback, please send me any comments, suggestions and corrections. Nice work like the other one! I won't have time till Monday, but I'd be more then happy to review and commit this article if you can send me the sources. Regards, Gábor Kövesdán ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The man page for gjournal does not say what unit to use when specifying the journal size with the -s option. Sectors? GB? Anything else? Or is there a default (say sectors) that can be changed by using a suffix, like -s 10G? You are right, although it does say the default is 1Gb. However the jsize option is only available when both data journal are stored on the same provider, and the article does not deal with this, as it uses separate providers for data and journal. I could give this a try on my virtual setup and see what kind of unit is used. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm considering using such a setup. And if I decide to give it a go, I'll have to backup, boot from a custom CD I made, make the changes to the disks and restore the backup. Considering that, trying out what unit is used, should only take a fraction of the total time, and it doesn't really scare me to try it. :) I realize my question went to the wrong person, but I simply replied to the mail. My apologies. -- Sincerly, Rolf Nielsen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
