Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:41:27 -0500 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:44:56 -0600 Conrad J. Sabatier articulated: Ah-ha! After plowing through a ton of ports and docs tonight, I finally had a Eureka! moment. It seems that it's quite possible to fashion a poor man's CD player app (script) out of the following cdda2wav command options (got this example from the man page): cdda2wav -q -e -t4 -d0 -N In this case, -t4 means to play track 4. Using -B instead, would play the whole disc. The command simply sends the data to the soundcard (/dev/dsp) as it's being ripped. In combination with a few other cdda2wav options to obtain the CDDB info for the disc, one could fairly easily whip up a little CD player script. I'm a man on a mission now! :-) I *will* be rolling up my sleeves and hacking together some shell code in the days to come. May even wind up submitting the finished product as a new port for the benefit of other folks out there still struggling to play their CDs since the CD infrastructure changed not too long ago. Light! I see light at the end of the tunnel! :-) I applaud your enthusiasm. I actually tend to try and reinvent the wheel from time to time myself. Not so much because I feel the wheel has an inherent flaw but rather because I just like a good challenge. While such endeavors might prove useful from strictly a theoretical research point of view, in practice they can seriously reduce productivity. I totally agree. I'm the same when it comes to enjoying a good challenge. Call me masochistic if you will :-), but I do enjoy programming very much. Sometimes just to see if can actually do it. Learning new stuff, that sort of thing. I often wonder what happened to the premise that computers should make man's life easier, not harder. Why should users be force to go to these extremes to just play an audio CD when other OSs all ready have that capability sans ruminating for such a simple task. Again, totally agree. I really miss the /dev/acd0t${n} method of accessing audio tracks. That was truly a handy feature. Again, good luck. I won't be partaking of your research since I have other PCs near me that are fully capable of preforming the relatively simple task of playing an audio CD. However, if you do get some free time perhaps you could invest it in some really socially advantageous work such as find a cure for cancer. Now that would be something that all could appreciate. Well, if I had the skills, I'd try and fix the current problems associated with audio CD access. But I'm afraid that's just a bit beyond my abilities. I've looked at some source code, but wouldn't have the first clue where to begin. Now, as for curing cancer...I'll leave that to the experts as well. :-) Above all else, though (on a more serious note), I *will* resist the temptation I've sometimes given into in the past, and will *not* resort to taking up residence in the land of the penguin. Would much prefer to stick around here and see how things develop. -- Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:25:15 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net wrote: On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:38:29 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net wrote: No, it seems that there's a severe level of brokenness that has been introduced into the source tree with regards to CD devices. I've been exploring this issue on my own system the last couple of days, and am no closer to arriving at a solution than when I first started. None of the CD-related apps I have installed are working. cdcontrol will read an audio CD OK, it seems, but playback is useless, since, like most newer machines, I have no direct connection between the CD drive and the audio device. Apps such as kscd, xmcd, etc. report no disc or no device found. grip (using cdparanoia) will detect an audio disc and even fetch the correct cddb info, but ripping fails completely. xmms reports no appropriate ioctl for device. This is progress? OK, I've made a little headway here. At least, I've managed to get cdrtools to work once again, after rebuilding/installing the port and setting the default device to the SCSI address (1,0,0) of cd0 instead of the device name. Grip is now working with cdda2wav. Hallelujah! :-) Still can't seem to get plain old audio CD playback working with anything, though. :-( Ah-ha! After plowing through a ton of ports and docs tonight, I finally had a Eureka! moment. It seems that it's quite possible to fashion a poor man's CD player app (script) out of the following cdda2wav command options (got this example from the man page): cdda2wav -q -e -t4 -d0 -N In this case, -t4 means to play track 4. Using -B instead, would play the whole disc. The command simply sends the data to the soundcard (/dev/dsp) as it's being ripped. In combination with a few other cdda2wav options to obtain the CDDB info for the disc, one could fairly easily whip up a little CD player script. I'm a man on a mission now! :-) I *will* be rolling up my sleeves and hacking together some shell code in the days to come. May even wind up submitting the finished product as a new port for the benefit of other folks out there still struggling to play their CDs since the CD infrastructure changed not too long ago. Light! I see light at the end of the tunnel! :-) -- Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:44:56 -0600 Conrad J. Sabatier articulated: On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:25:15 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net wrote: On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:38:29 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net wrote: No, it seems that there's a severe level of brokenness that has been introduced into the source tree with regards to CD devices. I've been exploring this issue on my own system the last couple of days, and am no closer to arriving at a solution than when I first started. None of the CD-related apps I have installed are working. cdcontrol will read an audio CD OK, it seems, but playback is useless, since, like most newer machines, I have no direct connection between the CD drive and the audio device. Apps such as kscd, xmcd, etc. report no disc or no device found. grip (using cdparanoia) will detect an audio disc and even fetch the correct cddb info, but ripping fails completely. xmms reports no appropriate ioctl for device. This is progress? OK, I've made a little headway here. At least, I've managed to get cdrtools to work once again, after rebuilding/installing the port and setting the default device to the SCSI address (1,0,0) of cd0 instead of the device name. Grip is now working with cdda2wav. Hallelujah! :-) Still can't seem to get plain old audio CD playback working with anything, though. :-( Ah-ha! After plowing through a ton of ports and docs tonight, I finally had a Eureka! moment. It seems that it's quite possible to fashion a poor man's CD player app (script) out of the following cdda2wav command options (got this example from the man page): cdda2wav -q -e -t4 -d0 -N In this case, -t4 means to play track 4. Using -B instead, would play the whole disc. The command simply sends the data to the soundcard (/dev/dsp) as it's being ripped. In combination with a few other cdda2wav options to obtain the CDDB info for the disc, one could fairly easily whip up a little CD player script. I'm a man on a mission now! :-) I *will* be rolling up my sleeves and hacking together some shell code in the days to come. May even wind up submitting the finished product as a new port for the benefit of other folks out there still struggling to play their CDs since the CD infrastructure changed not too long ago. Light! I see light at the end of the tunnel! :-) I applaud your enthusiasm. I actually tend to try and reinvent the wheel from time to time myself. Not so much because I feel the wheel has an inherent flaw but rather because I just like a good challenge. While such endeavors might prove useful from strictly a theoretical research point of view, in practice they can seriously reduce productivity. I often wonder what happened to the premise that computers should make man's life easier, not harder. Why should users be force to go to these extremes to just play an audio CD when other OSs all ready have that capability sans ruminating for such a simple task. Again, good luck. I won't be partaking of your research since I have other PCs near me that are fully capable of preforming the relatively simple task of playing an audio CD. However, if you do get some free time perhaps you could invest it in some really socially advantageous work such as find a cure for cancer. Now that would be something that all could appreciate. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
Hello. 2011/11/13 07:41:27 -0500 Jerry je...@seibercom.net = To FreeBSD : J I often wonder what happened to the premise that computers should make J man's life easier, not harder. Why should users be force to go to these But probably it's easier to plug the wire from cd drive to a sound card? That way one should get a mixer's separate CD volume regulator at no cost... But sure this makes impossible the any processing like this: cdda2wav args | tee /some/file /dev/dsp Either way has its advantages and drawbacks. -- Peter Vereshagin pe...@vereshagin.org (http://vereshagin.org) pgp: A0E26627 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On 10/25/11, Michael D. Norwick mnorw...@centurytel.net wrote: Setting these environment variables had no effect on my machine. $cdcontrol play 1 still produces drive activity but no sound. The graphical apps I am trying such as Abraca, or MPlayer, still do not seem to recognize an audio CD. Gnome Audio CD Extractor - Sound Juicer - still errors with 'No CD-ROM drives found' even though Metallica is in the drive. mplayer needs to be compiled with libcdio to support playing cdda:// cddb:// Then you only need to give -cdrom-device argument to mplayer. But you do not need that, something like this will work just fine (from mplayer manual page): mplayer [cdda|cddb]://track[-endtrack][:speed][/device] [options] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 18:21:14 -0400 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:38:29 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatier articulated: On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:19:02 +0200 Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: What if you use Gnome's CD playing application, or something like XMMS with the CD audio plugin? I think your permissions are okay so you could make the drive play from your (non-root) user account. No, it seems that there's a severe level of brokenness that has been introduced into the source tree with regards to CD devices. I've been exploring this issue on my own system the last couple of days, and am no closer to arriving at a solution than when I first started. None of the CD-related apps I have installed are working. cdcontrol will read an audio CD OK, it seems, but playback is useless, since, like most newer machines, I have no direct connection between the CD drive and the audio device. Apps such as kscd, xmcd, etc. report no disc or no device found. grip (using cdparanoia) will detect an audio disc and even fetch the correct cddb info, but ripping fails completely. xmms reports no appropriate ioctl for device. This is progress? I tried raising this issue over a year ago; however, it never got any traction. Well, as I mentioned in an earlier followup, it's not *quite* as bad as my first impression led me to believe. After rebuilding a few ports and adjusting the naming of my CD device for some of them from the /dev/cd0 device name to the SCSI address instead, they're working once again. The problem remains, though, with all of the audio CD playing apps I've tried. Either they don't detect the drive, don't detect the disc, or fail to read it properly. Grrr! It's definitely not a hardware issue per se, as I had Ubuntu running on this box a while back and all the audio apps were working just fine. If there have been some changes made in the kernel sources that necessitate patching each and every audio CD-related port, then there's something seriously wrong here, and it's time to take a step back and look at what's going on. -- Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:03:26 -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: On 10/24/11 13:24, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: Try using: export CDDA_DEVICE=1,0,0 export CDR_DEVICE=1,0,0 And see if your cdrtools at least work. Audio CD playing apps still have problems, though, unfortunately. Thank You, Setting these environment variables had no effect on my machine. Those variables are used by cdrecord, see man cdrecord for details. $cdcontrol play 1 still produces drive activity but no sound. The corresponding cdcontrol variable is $CDROM. If you've got only one drive, you won't need it. If I remember correctly, the first drive that's being detected will be the default when -f device is omitted. See man cdcontrol for details. The graphical apps I am trying such as Abraca, or MPlayer, still do not seem to recognize an audio CD. Gnome Audio CD Extractor - Sound Juicer - still errors with 'No CD-ROM drives found' even though Metallica is in the drive. Even though? Maybe Because! :-) I'm not sure which device those programs will address. In some cases, it helped to do cdcontrol info before launching the program. However, it's possible that some programs rely on the presence of track device files /dev/acdXtYY which is a mechanism _not_ provided by the /dev/cdX SCSI device. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:19:02 +0200 Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: What if you use Gnome's CD playing application, or something like XMMS with the CD audio plugin? I think your permissions are okay so you could make the drive play from your (non-root) user account. No, it seems that there's a severe level of brokenness that has been introduced into the source tree with regards to CD devices. I've been exploring this issue on my own system the last couple of days, and am no closer to arriving at a solution than when I first started. None of the CD-related apps I have installed are working. cdcontrol will read an audio CD OK, it seems, but playback is useless, since, like most newer machines, I have no direct connection between the CD drive and the audio device. Apps such as kscd, xmcd, etc. report no disc or no device found. grip (using cdparanoia) will detect an audio disc and even fetch the correct cddb info, but ripping fails completely. xmms reports no appropriate ioctl for device. This is progress? -- Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:38:29 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatier articulated: On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:19:02 +0200 Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: What if you use Gnome's CD playing application, or something like XMMS with the CD audio plugin? I think your permissions are okay so you could make the drive play from your (non-root) user account. No, it seems that there's a severe level of brokenness that has been introduced into the source tree with regards to CD devices. I've been exploring this issue on my own system the last couple of days, and am no closer to arriving at a solution than when I first started. None of the CD-related apps I have installed are working. cdcontrol will read an audio CD OK, it seems, but playback is useless, since, like most newer machines, I have no direct connection between the CD drive and the audio device. Apps such as kscd, xmcd, etc. report no disc or no device found. grip (using cdparanoia) will detect an audio disc and even fetch the correct cddb info, but ripping fails completely. xmms reports no appropriate ioctl for device. This is progress? I tried raising this issue over a year ago; however, it never got any traction. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:38:29 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net wrote: No, it seems that there's a severe level of brokenness that has been introduced into the source tree with regards to CD devices. I've been exploring this issue on my own system the last couple of days, and am no closer to arriving at a solution than when I first started. None of the CD-related apps I have installed are working. cdcontrol will read an audio CD OK, it seems, but playback is useless, since, like most newer machines, I have no direct connection between the CD drive and the audio device. Apps such as kscd, xmcd, etc. report no disc or no device found. grip (using cdparanoia) will detect an audio disc and even fetch the correct cddb info, but ripping fails completely. xmms reports no appropriate ioctl for device. This is progress? OK, I've made a little headway here. At least, I've managed to get cdrtools to work once again, after rebuilding/installing the port and setting the default device to the SCSI address (1,0,0) of cd0 instead of the device name. Grip is now working with cdda2wav. Hallelujah! :-) Still can't seem to get plain old audio CD playback working with anything, though. :-( -- Conrad J. Sabatier conr...@cox.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On 10/23/11 19:25, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:38:29 -0500 Conrad J. Sabatierconr...@cox.net wrote: No, it seems that there's a severe level of brokenness that has been introduced into the source tree with regards to CD devices. snip Good Day; Ditto on this thread. No amount of deinstall/reinstall, recompiling kernels and world, or config file tweaking have granted me success. As I have posted; I am on $uname -a FreeBSD ...net 9.0-RC1 FreeBSD 9.0-RC1 #0: Sun Oct 23 12:32:55 CDT 2011 root@..net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/KERNEL_102311 amd64 on a Dell Latitude D630. $dmesg Copyright (c) 1992-2011 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 9.0-RC1 #0: Sun Oct 23 12:32:55 CDT 2011 root@..net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/KERNEL_102311 amd64 can't re-use a leaf (if_tun_debug)! module_register: module if_tun already exists! Module if_tun failed to register: 17 CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7250 @ 2.00GHz (1994.48-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x6fd Family = 6 Model = f Stepping = 13 Features=0xbfebfbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE Features2=0xe3bdSSE3,DTES64,MON,DS_CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM AMD Features=0x20100800SYSCALL,NX,LM AMD Features2=0x1LAHF TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics real memory = 1073741824 (1024 MB) avail memory = 1002573824 (956 MB) Event timer LAPIC quality 400 ACPI APIC Table: DELL M08 FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs FreeBSD/SMP: 1 package(s) x 2 core(s) cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 ioapic0: Changing APIC ID to 2 ioapic0 Version 2.0 irqs 0-23 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 acpi0: DELL M08 on motherboard Timecounter HPET frequency 14318180 Hz quality 950 Event timer HPET frequency 14318180 Hz quality 450 Event timer HPET1 frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 Event timer HPET2 frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 acpi0: reservation of 0, 9f000 (3) failed acpi0: reservation of 10, 3f55b800 (3) failed Timecounter ACPI-fast frequency 3579545 Hz quality 900 acpi_timer0: 24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz port 0x1008-0x100b on acpi0 cpu0: ACPI CPU on acpi0 cpu1: ACPI CPU on acpi0 pcib0: ACPI Host-PCI bridge port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: ACPI PCI bus on pcib0 vgapci0: VGA-compatible display port 0xeff8-0xefff mem 0xfea0-0xfeaf,0xe000-0xefff irq 16 at device 2.0 on pci0 agp0: Intel GM965 SVGA controller on vgapci0 agp0: aperture size is 256M, detected 7676k stolen memory vgapci1: VGA-compatible display mem 0xfeb0-0xfebf at device 2.1 on pci--More--(byte 2278) uhci0: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-D port 0x6f20-0x6f3f irq 20 at device 26.0 on pci0 uhci0: LegSup = 0x2f00 usbus0: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-D on uhci0 uhci1: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-E port 0x6f00-0x6f1f irq 21 at device 26.1 on pci0 uhci1: LegSup = 0x2f00 usbus1: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-E on uhci1 ehci0: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB 2.0 controller USB2-B mem 0xfed1c400-0xfed1c7ff irq 22 at device 26.7 on pci0 usbus2: EHCI version 1.0 usbus2: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB 2.0 controller USB2-B on ehci0 hdac0: Intel 82801H High Definition Audio Controller mem 0xfe9fc000-0xfe9f irq 21 at device 27.0 on pci0 pcib1: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 28.0 on pci0 pci11: ACPI PCI bus on pcib1 pcib2: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 28.1 on pci0 pci12: ACPI PCI bus on pcib2 wpi0: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG mem 0xfe8ff000-0xfe8f irq 17 at device 0.0 on pci12 pcib3: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 28.5 on pci0 pci9: ACPI PCI bus on pcib3 bge0: CHIP ID 0xa002; ASIC REV 0x0a; CHIP REV 0xa0; PCI-E miibus0: MII bus on bge0 brgphy0: BCM5755 1000BASE-T media interface PHY 1 on miibus0 brgphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, 1000baseT, 1000baseT-master, 1000baseT-FDX, 1000baseT-FDX-master, auto, auto-flow bge0: Ethernet address: 00:21:70:91:6a:a5 uhci2: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-A port 0x6f80-0x6f9f irq 20 at device 29.0 on pci0 uhci2: LegSup = 0x2f00 usbus3: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-A on uhci2 uhci3: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-B port 0x6f60-0x6f7f irq 21 at device 29.1 on pci0 uhci3: LegSup = 0x2f00 usbus4: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-B on uhci3 uhci4: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-C port 0x6f40-0x6f5f irq 22 at device 29.2 on pci0 uhci4: LegSup = 0x2f00 usbus5: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-C on uhci4 ehci1: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB 2.0 controller USB2-A mem 0xfed1c000-0xfed1c3ff irq 20 at device 29.7 on pci0 usbus6: EHCI version 1.0 usbus6: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB 2.0 controller USB2-A on ehci1 pcib4: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 30.0 on
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
2011-10-20 03:25, Michael D. Norwick skrev: with a data CD in the drive during reboot. Trying to manually mount the drive results in; $ sudo mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0 /media/dvdrom mount_cd9660: /dev/cd0: Invalid argument You have a typo in your mount command. The correct one would be; mount_-t cd9660 /dev/cd0 /media/dvdrom Thank You, Michael ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD (or any other media now)
On 10/18/11 14:57, Alexander Best wrote: On Thu Oct 13 11, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Alexander Bestarun...@freebsd.org writes: snip Good Day; It seems that I still cannot figure this out. No amount of searching the docs or mailing lists has gotten me closer to a solution. I csup'd the source tree again last night and built another kernel and world for; *default release=cvs tag=RELENG_9 *default delete use-rel-suffix /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/KERNEL_101811 contains (among other things); # ATA controllers deviceahci# AHCI-compatible SATA controllers deviceata# Legacy ATA/SATA controllers options ATA_CAM# Handle legacy controllers with CAM options ATA_STATIC_ID# Static device numbering devicemvs# Marvell 88SX50XX/88SX60XX/88SX70XX/SoC SATA devicesiis# SiliconImage SiI3124/SiI3132/SiI3531 SATA # SCSI Controllers # ATA/SCSI peripherals devicescbus# SCSI bus (required for ATA/SCSI) devicech# SCSI media changers deviceda# Direct Access (disks) devicesa# Sequential Access (tape etc) devicecd# CD devicepass# Passthrough device (direct ATA/SCSI access) deviceses# SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE) /usr/src/UPDATING and /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/NOTES did not seem to contain anything applicable to this issue. The buildkernel KERNCONF=KERNEL_101811 step resulted in; $uname -a FreeBSD ..net 9.0-RC1 FreeBSD 9.0-RC1 #1: Wed Oct 19 05:37:43 CDT 2011 michael@..net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/KERNEL_101811 amd64 and the following cd devices in /dev; $ ls -l cd* crw-rw-rw- 1 root operator0, 105 Oct 19 19:08 cd0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel8 Oct 19 19:08 cdrom - /dev/cd0 No /dev/acd* devices but I would think that there are not supposed to be. /etc/devfs.conf contains; # Commonly used by many ports #linkacd0cdrom link/dev/cd0 cdrom perm/dev/cd0 0660 # Allow a user in the wheel group to query the smb0 device perm/dev/smb0 0660 # Allow members of group operator to cat things to the speaker #ownspeakerroot:operator #permspeaker0660 perm/dev/pass0 0660 perm/dev/xpt0 0660 perm/dev/pass1 0660 perm/dev/mdctl 0660 perm/dev/md0 0660 perm/dev/bpf00660 perm/dev/bpf10660 perm/dev/bpf20660 perm/dev/bpf30660 perm/dev/bpf40660 link/tmpshm $ cat /boot/loader.conf atapicam_load=YES hw.ata.atapi_dma=0 linux_load=YES snd_hda_load=YES $ cat /etc/rc.conf hostname=..net keymap=us.iso.kbd ifconfig_bge0= inet 192.168.1.22 netmask 255.255.255.0 defaultrouter=192.168.1.1 hald_enable=YES dbus_enable=YES gdm_enable=YES sshd_enable=YES linux_enable=YES abi_enable=YES sysctl_enable=YES ntpd_enable=YES powerd_enable=YES $dmesg (snipped somewhat) cd0 at ata0 bus 0 scbus1 target 0 lun 0 cd0: TSSTcorp DVD+-RW TS-L632H D300 Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device cd0: 33.300MB/s transfers (UDMA2, ATAPI 12bytes, PIO 65534bytes) cd0: cd present [26466 x 2048 byte records] (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 67 61 0 0 1 0 (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: HARDWARE FAILURE asc:3e,2 (Timeout on logical unit) (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 67 61 0 0 1 0 (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: HARDWARE FAILURE asc:3e,2 (Timeout on logical unit) (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 67 61 0 0 1 0 (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: HARDWARE FAILURE asc:3e,2 (Timeout on logical unit) (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 67 61 0 0 1 0 (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: HARDWARE FAILURE asc:3e,2 (Timeout on logical unit) (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 67 61 0 0 1 0 (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: HARDWARE FAILURE asc:3e,2 (Timeout on logical unit) (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): cddone: got error 0x5 back with a data CD in the drive during reboot. Trying to manually mount the drive results in; $ sudo mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0 /media/dvdrom mount_cd9660: /dev/cd0: Invalid argument $ cat /etc/fstab # DeviceMountpointFStypeOptionsDumpPass# proc/procprocfsrw00 /dev/ada0p2/ufsrw11 /dev/ada0p3noneswapsw00 /dev/ada0p4/varufsrw22 /dev/ada0p5/usrufsrw22 /dev/ada0p6/homeufsrw22 linproc /compat/linux/proclinprocfsrw 00 /dev/cd0/media/dvdromcd9660 rw,noauto
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Thu Oct 13 11, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Alexander Best arun...@freebsd.org writes: ano ther thought might be to implement an audio cd filesystem, so one could do 'mount -o audiocdfs /dev/cd0 /media/cd' and then all tracks appear as RAW pcm audio files. maybe fuse comes with something like this? /dev/acdntm is no longer supported? nope. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
Strange thing is, that cdcontrol works for me, disc is spinning but no sound out of speakers. Sound system is working, and this is laptop. I usually rip to hdd, and play those files, but it was annoying last time I tried to play audio cd. Before CAM it was the same, if I recall correctly, however then I used something like cdparanoia or cdrtools to play cds. So I'm afraid, that cdcontrol is not best diagnostic tool. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Can-t-access-a-music-CD-tp4886683p4898453.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 01:20:49 -0700 (PDT), Jakub Lach wrote: Strange thing is, that cdcontrol works for me, disc is spinning but no sound out of speakers. If there is no entry for CD in the mixer, but for PCM, it seems to indicate why playback from disk works, but even (assumed) playback from CD cannot be heared. % mixer -f /dev/mixer0 Mixer vol is currently set to 5:5 Mixer pcm is currently set to 100:100 Mixer line is currently set to 75:75 Mixer mic is currently set to 0:0 Mixer cd is currently set to 75:75 === THIS ONE Mixer rec is currently set to 75:75 Mixer igainis currently set to 0:0 Mixer monitor is currently set to 75:75 Recording source: mic This is from a HDA audio with 3 pcm devices and 3 mixer devices. Before CAM it was the same, if I recall correctly, however then I used something like cdparanoia or cdrtools to play cds. If I remember correctly, cdrtools is the port that brings cdrecord. There are text mode and X CD player programs (such as XMMS with CD audio plugin, or the simple xcd) which you could try. So I'm afraid, that cdcontrol is not best diagnostic tool. It's a simple and _predictable_ tool which you can use to make the CD drive start playing. Everything _next_ in the signal chain (i. e. the mixer) is handled by other tools. So if you assume that cdcontrol -f /dev/acd0 play makes the CD play, then use the mixer command to check all the possible audio settings to find the next thin in the signal chain that could be wrong. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
Correct, cd entry from mixer is missing. However, then it didn't stop other tools from working (I think that at one point I also used mplayer for CD playback). best regards and thanks, - Jakub Lach -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Can-t-access-a-music-CD-tp4886683p4899154.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Wed Oct 12 11, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Michael D. Norwick mnorw...@centurytel.net writes: Thank You for the replies. Got the part about not mounting an audio CD. I wasn't trying to. Inserting the disc in the drive brought up the error message. Mounting a data CD or DVD acts normally and the filesystem on it can be accessed. Okay, so what *are* you you using to try to play the CD? Someone suggested cdcontrol, but these days a lot of computers don't come with the cable to get analog audio directly off the drive. That's why the FAQ suggests xmcd, although it's far from the only option; most of the big desktop environments come with a CD playing application that gets the data digitally. For example, I think the Gnome application is brasero. i think cdcontrol(1) should be adjusted, so that it supports digital audio CD playback. actually analog audio hasn't really been supported by mainboard manufacturers for 10 years. i have a board which comes with an audio connector, but attaching a cable to it, which is attached to a dvd drive doesn't work, for whatever reasons. i also believe newer dvd and br sata devices don't even come with an analog connector nowadays. another application which supports digitally playing audio cds is mplayer(1) via 'mplayer cdda:://' or 'mplayer cddb://'. ano ther thought might be to implement an audio cd filesystem, so one could do 'mount -o audiocdfs /dev/cd0 /media/cd' and then all tracks appear as RAW pcm audio files. maybe fuse comes with something like this? cheers. alex ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
Alexander Best arun...@freebsd.org writes: ano ther thought might be to implement an audio cd filesystem, so one could do 'mount -o audiocdfs /dev/cd0 /media/cd' and then all tracks appear as RAW pcm audio files. maybe fuse comes with something like this? /dev/acdntm is no longer supported? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:25:24 +, Alexander Best wrote: ano ther thought might be to implement an audio cd filesystem, so one could do 'mount -o audiocdfs /dev/cd0 /media/cd' and then all tracks appear as RAW pcm audio files. maybe fuse comes with something like this? What about /dev/acd0t[01,02,03,...] - aren't those supposed to represent the individual audio tracks that could then be interpreted as what they basically are, raw pcm (of cd-audio specification)? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Thu Oct 13 11, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:25:24 +, Alexander Best wrote: ano ther thought might be to implement an audio cd filesystem, so one could do 'mount -o audiocdfs /dev/cd0 /media/cd' and then all tracks appear as RAW pcm audio files. maybe fuse comes with something like this? What about /dev/acd0t[01,02,03,...] - aren't those supposed to represent the individual audio tracks that could then be interpreted as what they basically are, raw pcm (of cd-audio specification)? i inserted an audio cd and they didn't turn up. i guess ATA_CAM doesn't support individual nodes for tracks. cheers. alex -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 22:03:29 +, Alexander Best wrote: On Thu Oct 13 11, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:25:24 +, Alexander Best wrote: ano ther thought might be to implement an audio cd filesystem, so one could do 'mount -o audiocdfs /dev/cd0 /media/cd' and then all tracks appear as RAW pcm audio files. maybe fuse comes with something like this? What about /dev/acd0t[01,02,03,...] - aren't those supposed to represent the individual audio tracks that could then be interpreted as what they basically are, raw pcm (of cd-audio specification)? i inserted an audio cd and they didn't turn up. i guess ATA_CAM doesn't support individual nodes for tracks. When using the (now default) CAM methods (ATAPICAM), I think this is true. Example with a regular music CD: % cdcontrol info Starting track = 1, ending track = 19, TOC size = 162 bytes track start duration block length type - 1 0:02.00 2:05.01 09376 audio 2 2:07.01 1:45.5393767928 audio 3 3:52.54 2:37.49 17304 11824 audio 4 6:30.28 1:52.00 291288400 audio 5 8:22.28 2:08.29 375289629 audio 6 10:30.57 2:23.01 47157 10726 audio 7 12:53.58 4:01.01 57883 18076 audio 8 16:54.59 3:12.37 75959 14437 audio 9 20:07.21 2:09.00 903969675 audio 10 22:16.21 4:19.67 100071 19492 audio 11 26:36.13 3:28.00 119563 15600 audio 12 30:04.13 3:48.73 135163 17173 audio 13 33:53.11 3:51.38 152336 17363 audio 14 37:44.49 1:27.72 1696996597 audio 15 39:12.46 2:15.15 176296 10140 audio 16 41:27.61 2:35.01 186436 11626 audio 17 44:02.62 2:11.00 1980629825 audio 18 46:13.62 2:37.01 207887 11776 audio 19 48:50.63 2:48.01 219663 12601 audio 170 51:38.64 - 232264 - - % ls /dev/acd0* /dev/acd0 /dev/acd0t04 /dev/acd0t08 /dev/acd0t12 /dev/acd0t16 /dev/acd0t01 /dev/acd0t05 /dev/acd0t09 /dev/acd0t13 /dev/acd0t17 /dev/acd0t02 /dev/acd0t06 /dev/acd0t10 /dev/acd0t14 /dev/acd0t18 /dev/acd0t03 /dev/acd0t07 /dev/acd0t11 /dev/acd0t15 /dev/acd0t19 % ls /dev/cd0* /dev/cd0 Maybe obtaining a TOC listing of the CD is required to make the track files appear? However, they are only present for the ATAPI based access (acd0), not for the SCSI CAM based one (cd0). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Fri Oct 14 11, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 22:03:29 +, Alexander Best wrote: On Thu Oct 13 11, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:25:24 +, Alexander Best wrote: ano ther thought might be to implement an audio cd filesystem, so one could do 'mount -o audiocdfs /dev/cd0 /media/cd' and then all tracks appear as RAW pcm audio files. maybe fuse comes with something like this? What about /dev/acd0t[01,02,03,...] - aren't those supposed to represent the individual audio tracks that could then be interpreted as what they basically are, raw pcm (of cd-audio specification)? i inserted an audio cd and they didn't turn up. i guess ATA_CAM doesn't support individual nodes for tracks. When using the (now default) CAM methods (ATAPICAM), I think this is true. Example with a regular music CD: % cdcontrol info Starting track = 1, ending track = 19, TOC size = 162 bytes track start duration block length type - 1 0:02.00 2:05.01 09376 audio 2 2:07.01 1:45.5393767928 audio 3 3:52.54 2:37.49 17304 11824 audio 4 6:30.28 1:52.00 291288400 audio 5 8:22.28 2:08.29 375289629 audio 6 10:30.57 2:23.01 47157 10726 audio 7 12:53.58 4:01.01 57883 18076 audio 8 16:54.59 3:12.37 75959 14437 audio 9 20:07.21 2:09.00 903969675 audio 10 22:16.21 4:19.67 100071 19492 audio 11 26:36.13 3:28.00 119563 15600 audio 12 30:04.13 3:48.73 135163 17173 audio 13 33:53.11 3:51.38 152336 17363 audio 14 37:44.49 1:27.72 1696996597 audio 15 39:12.46 2:15.15 176296 10140 audio 16 41:27.61 2:35.01 186436 11626 audio 17 44:02.62 2:11.00 1980629825 audio 18 46:13.62 2:37.01 207887 11776 audio 19 48:50.63 2:48.01 219663 12601 audio 170 51:38.64 - 232264 - - cdcontrol info Starting track = 1, ending track = 9, TOC size = 82 bytes track start duration block length type - 1 0:02.00 5:58.35 0 26885 audio 2 6:00.35 5:06.06 26885 22956 audio 3 11:06.41 5:40.57 49841 25557 audio 4 16:47.23 5:52.37 75398 26437 audio 5 22:39.60 4:14.09 101835 19059 audio 6 26:53.69 5:16.25 120894 23725 audio 7 32:10.19 3:14.54 144619 14604 audio 8 35:24.73 6:24.15 159223 28815 audio 9 41:49.13 6:16.51 188038 28251 audio 170 48:05.64 - 216289 - - % ls /dev/acd0* /dev/acd0 /dev/acd0t04 /dev/acd0t08 /dev/acd0t12 /dev/acd0t16 /dev/acd0t01 /dev/acd0t05 /dev/acd0t09 /dev/acd0t13 /dev/acd0t17 /dev/acd0t02 /dev/acd0t06 /dev/acd0t10 /dev/acd0t14 /dev/acd0t18 /dev/acd0t03 /dev/acd0t07 /dev/acd0t11 /dev/acd0t15 /dev/acd0t19 otaku% ls|grep cd cd0 cdrom % ls /dev/cd0* /dev/cd0 Maybe obtaining a TOC listing of the CD is required to make the track files appear? However, they are only present for the ATAPI based access (acd0), not for the SCSI CAM based one (cd0). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 22:38:45 +, Alexander Best wrote: On Fri Oct 14 11, Polytropon wrote: % ls /dev/acd0* /dev/acd0 /dev/acd0t04 /dev/acd0t08 /dev/acd0t12 /dev/acd0t16 /dev/acd0t01 /dev/acd0t05 /dev/acd0t09 /dev/acd0t13 /dev/acd0t17 /dev/acd0t02 /dev/acd0t06 /dev/acd0t10 /dev/acd0t14 /dev/acd0t18 /dev/acd0t03 /dev/acd0t07 /dev/acd0t11 /dev/acd0t15 /dev/acd0t19 otaku% ls|grep cd cd0 cdrom % dmesg | grep ^acd acd0: DVDR HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H42N/RL00 at ata1-master UDMA66 acd1: DVDROM HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8163B/0L30 at ata1-slave UDMA33 Those are parallel ATA drives, accessed by the ATAPI drivers. Because I can either access them as ATAPI drives as well as SCSI drives, they show up in both subsystems: % atacontrol list ATA channel 1: Master: acd0 HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H42N/RL00 ATA/ATAPI revision 7 Slave: acd1 HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8163B/0L30 ATA/ATAPI revision 6 % camcontrol devlist HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H42N RL00at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 (pass0,cd0) HL-DT-ST DVD-ROM GDR8163B 0L30 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 (pass1,cd1) In the kernel configuration, I have the following relevant settings: # ATA and ATAPI devices device ata device atadisk # ATA disk drives device ataraid # ATA RAID drives device atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives device atapifd # ATAPI floppy drives device atapist # ATAPI tape drives options ATA_STATIC_ID # Static device numbering device atapicam# For SCSI over ATA # SCSI peripherals device scbus # SCSI bus (required for SCSI) device ch # SCSI media changers device da # Direct Access (disks) device sa # Sequential Access (tape etc) device cd # CD device pass# Passthrough device (direct SCSI access) device ses # SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE) options SCSI_DELAY=100 # Delay (in ms) before probing SCSI [5000] So I can use both /dev/cd0 and /dev/acd0 to access the same drive, just are required, e. g. /dev/cd0 (equals /dev/dvd for consistency with the growisofs manpage) for burning CDs, and /dev/acd0 for audio playback (when accessed with cdcontrol). OS is x86 v8.2 STABLE of August 2011 with (obviously) custom kernel. If I remember correctly, the cdcontrol utility talks to the ATAPI subsystem which now has been melted somehow with the ATAPICAM (SCSI) way of accessing devices... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Fri Oct 14 11, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 22:38:45 +, Alexander Best wrote: On Fri Oct 14 11, Polytropon wrote: % ls /dev/acd0* /dev/acd0 /dev/acd0t04 /dev/acd0t08 /dev/acd0t12 /dev/acd0t16 /dev/acd0t01 /dev/acd0t05 /dev/acd0t09 /dev/acd0t13 /dev/acd0t17 /dev/acd0t02 /dev/acd0t06 /dev/acd0t10 /dev/acd0t14 /dev/acd0t18 /dev/acd0t03 /dev/acd0t07 /dev/acd0t11 /dev/acd0t15 /dev/acd0t19 otaku% ls|grep cd cd0 cdrom % dmesg | grep ^acd acd0: DVDR HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H42N/RL00 at ata1-master UDMA66 acd1: DVDROM HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8163B/0L30 at ata1-slave UDMA33 Those are parallel ATA drives, accessed by the ATAPI drivers. Because I can either access them as ATAPI drives as well as SCSI drives, they show up in both subsystems: % atacontrol list ATA channel 1: Master: acd0 HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H42N/RL00 ATA/ATAPI revision 7 Slave: acd1 HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8163B/0L30 ATA/ATAPI revision 6 % camcontrol devlist HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H42N RL00at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 (pass0,cd0) HL-DT-ST DVD-ROM GDR8163B 0L30 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 (pass1,cd1) In the kernel configuration, I have the following relevant settings: # ATA and ATAPI devices device ata device atadisk # ATA disk drives device ataraid # ATA RAID drives device atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives device atapifd # ATAPI floppy drives device atapist # ATAPI tape drives options ATA_STATIC_ID # Static device numbering device atapicam# For SCSI over ATA # SCSI peripherals device scbus # SCSI bus (required for SCSI) device ch # SCSI media changers device da # Direct Access (disks) device sa # Sequential Access (tape etc) device cd # CD device pass# Passthrough device (direct SCSI access) device ses # SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE) options SCSI_DELAY=100 # Delay (in ms) before probing SCSI [5000] So I can use both /dev/cd0 and /dev/acd0 to access the same drive, just are required, e. g. /dev/cd0 (equals /dev/dvd for consistency with the growisofs manpage) for burning CDs, and /dev/acd0 for audio playback (when accessed with cdcontrol). OS is x86 v8.2 STABLE of August 2011 with (obviously) custom kernel. If I remember correctly, the cdcontrol utility talks to the ATAPI subsystem which now has been melted somehow with the ATAPICAM (SCSI) way of accessing devices... yeah. you have device atapicam in your config, which creates cam emulation nodes under /dev and enables you to use cam specific software, such as camcontrol, cdrecord or growisofs. i'm running freebsd 10 and here the whole ata subsystem was merged into the cam subsystem. so atacontrol doesn't report anything. so the ata subsystem has been abandoned in favour of cam. that's why e.g. burncd is now unusable under freebsd. cheers. alex -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 23:53:02 +, Alexander Best wrote: yeah. you have device atapicam in your config, which creates cam emulation nodes under /dev and enables you to use cam specific software, such as camcontrol, cdrecord or growisofs. Exactly that was my intention when adding it to the kernel configuration. :-) i'm running freebsd 10 and here the whole ata subsystem was merged into the cam subsystem. so atacontrol doesn't report anything. so the ata subsystem has been abandoned in favour of cam. that's why e.g. burncd is now unusable under freebsd. Thanks for that warning - another thing to pay attention to when stupidly assuming that granted functionality will stay available forever. :-) However, I haven't been using burncd for long time as it has been broken (for me) at some point in v5 already, that's why my decision to use cdrecord and cdrdao with the SCSI command set. Still I'm curious how things will develop on application side with the new subsystem once it's established. At least I see abandoning the differentiation acd0 vs. cd0 as a good thing. One drive - one device file to access it. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On 10/10/11 05:44, Frank Shute wrote: On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 04:47:40AM -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: On 10/10/11 01:37, Frank Shute wrote: On Sun, Oct 09, 2011 at 08:33:01PM -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: snip This looks like it's playing. Is the CD/DVD drive active? snip Still will not play. Tried 2 different CD's. Thank You, If the drive is active and you're not getting sound out: What does: $ mixer $ cat /dev/sndstat show? Regards, GoodDay; Tried again with the following results; A dialog box dislplaying the following, Unable to mount Audio Disc DBus error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) and $ cat /dev/sndstat FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm: 64bit 2009061500/amd64) Installed devices: pcm0: HDA Sigmatel STAC9205X PCM #0 Analog (play/rec) default $ mixer Mixer vol is currently set to 100:100 Mixer pcm is currently set to 75:75 Mixer speaker is currently set to 75:75 Mixer rec is currently set to 75:75 Recording source: monitor no sound and no drive activity. Thank You, Michael ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 17:38:53 -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: GoodDay; Tried again with the following results; A dialog box dislplaying the following, Unable to mount Audio Disc DBus error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) You cannot mount an audio CD, it doesn't contain a file system. Idea: Maybe some kind of interference of your desktop environment that intends to mount a CD that cannot be mounted, and the command line tool trying to access a resource that is blocked due to the first thing? You should step down to the lowest level possible for diagnostics, i. e. running the system's command line tools to make the CD play. If _this_ works, then go up and test within your GUI desktop environment. The less abstraction layers are in between, the better. and $ cat /dev/sndstat FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm: 64bit 2009061500/amd64) Installed devices: pcm0: HDA Sigmatel STAC9205X PCM #0 Analog (play/rec) default $ mixer Mixer vol is currently set to 100:100 Mixer pcm is currently set to 75:75 Mixer speaker is currently set to 75:75 Mixer rec is currently set to 75:75 Recording source: monitor no sound and no drive activity. Hmmm... I'm missing the CD in that listing. Which mixer is your default mixer? Try -f /dev/mixer0 to make sure the correct one is selected. On HDA codecs, there may be several mixers. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
Michael D. Norwick mnorw...@centurytel.net writes: A dialog box dislplaying the following, Unable to mount Audio Disc You're not supposed to mount an audio disk. There's even a FAQ entry titled Why can I not mount an audio CD? http://be-well.ilk.org/FreeBSD/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html#MOUNT-AUDIO-CD ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On 10/12/11 18:33, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Michael D. Norwickmnorw...@centurytel.net writes: A dialog box dislplaying the following, Unable to mount Audio Disc You're not supposed to mount an audio disk. There's even a FAQ entry titled Why can I not mount an audio CD? http://be-well.ilk.org/FreeBSD/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html#MOUNT-AUDIO-CD Good Day; Thank You for the replies. Got the part about not mounting an audio CD. I wasn't trying to. Inserting the disc in the drive brought up the error message. Mounting a data CD or DVD acts normally and the filesystem on it can be accessed. Michael ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 18:49:58 -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: Thank You for the replies. Got the part about not mounting an audio CD. I wasn't trying to. Inserting the disc in the drive brought up the error message. Mounting a data CD or DVD acts normally and the filesystem on it can be accessed. Do you have the option of testing mixer settings and CD playing commands _outside_ of the GUI, i. e. in normal text mode - just to make sure no DBUS, HAL or whatever part of the desktop environment might interfere? Things to check: - Which mixers do exist? Which settings are active? - Which CD device can be accessed by cdcontrol? Does it start playing properly? On today's disc drives, you typically don't have a 3.5mm headphone connector for direct listening. Also some sound cards (unlike most onboard sound chips) have the ability to connect the CD audio wire inside the machine. This feature is obsolete, but still works. It's typically not part of laptop designs. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Oct 12, 2011, at 5:14 PM, Polytropon wrote: On today's disc drives, you typically don't have a 3.5mm headphone connector for direct listening. Also some sound cards (unlike most onboard sound chips) have the ability to connect the CD audio wire inside the machine. This feature is obsolete, but still works. It's typically not part of laptop designs. A fair number of motherboards with integrated audio will take the analog audio output from a CD/DVD drive; the better ones will also accept a 3-pin digital SP/DIF connection as well. Even if they don't, however, it's not uncommon for them to have audio connectivity in the form of a microphone input buried within a 10-pin extension header (AC'97 and Intel's HD Audio front panel connector), rather than have a 4-pin or 3-pin connector which matches the cable which came with the CD/DVD drive. Anyway, none of the above should not be needed with modern SATA devices-- digital audio data goes directly over the SATA cable without a need for a separate audio cable. Any laptop (which isn't obsolete) would use this route. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
Michael D. Norwick mnorw...@centurytel.net writes: Thank You for the replies. Got the part about not mounting an audio CD. I wasn't trying to. Inserting the disc in the drive brought up the error message. Mounting a data CD or DVD acts normally and the filesystem on it can be accessed. Okay, so what *are* you you using to try to play the CD? Someone suggested cdcontrol, but these days a lot of computers don't come with the cable to get analog audio directly off the drive. That's why the FAQ suggests xmcd, although it's far from the only option; most of the big desktop environments come with a CD playing application that gets the data digitally. For example, I think the Gnome application is brasero. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Sun, Oct 09, 2011 at 08:33:01PM -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: Good Day; Since installing FreeBSD 9-beta2 (now 9-beta3) I have not been able to play a music cd with the dvd writer on this laptop. It is a Dell Latitude D630. I have built several new worlds and kernels with the following devices enabled in the kernel config.; devicescbus# SCSI bus (required for ATA/SCSI) devicech# SCSI media changers deviceatapicam deviceda# Direct Access (disks) devicesa# Sequential Access (tape etc) devicecd# CD devicepass# Passthrough device (direct ATA/SCSI access) deviceses# SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE) $uname -a FreeBSD ..net 9.0-BETA3 FreeBSD 9.0-BETA3 #0: Sat Oct 8 19:48:29 CDT 2011 michael@..net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/KERNEL_100811 amd64 This kernel was built after a recent csup and portsnap fetch. The buildworld and buildkernel steps have executed several times without error. A recent portupgrade only updated a couple of applications. dmesg says this; cd0 at ata0 bus 0 scbus1 target 0 lun 0 cd0: TSSTcorp DVD+-RW TS-L632H D300 Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device cd0: 33.300MB/s transfers (UDMA2, ATAPI 12bytes, PIO 65534bytes) cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present - tray closed and /boot/loader.conf says this; linux_load=YES atapicam_load=YES With a music CD in the drive /var/log/messages says this; Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 0 Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:64,0 (Illegal mode for this track) Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): cddone: got error 0x6 back and /etc/devfs.conf says this; # Commonly used by many ports #link acd0cdrom linkcd0 cdrom own cd0 root:wheel permcd0 0660 I think I might be missing something in /etc/devfs.conf. man devfs.conf or the handbook did not get me any closer to a solution. It worked under 8.2 on this machine. Thank You for the help. What does: $ ls -l /dev | grep cd give you? I assume you're a member of wheel. Give cdcontrol(1) a go if the above looks ok. Make sure your volume isn't turned right down! (mixer(1)) Have you checked out that your sound card is configured ok? $ cat /dev/sndstat Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html pgpRKSrdVB1e0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Can't access a music CD
On 10/10/11 01:37, Frank Shute wrote: On Sun, Oct 09, 2011 at 08:33:01PM -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: Good Day; Since installing FreeBSD 9-beta2 (now 9-beta3) I have not been able to play a music cd with the dvd writer on this laptop. It is a Dell Latitude D630. I have built several new worlds and kernels with the following devices enabled in the kernel config.; devicescbus# SCSI bus (required for ATA/SCSI) devicech# SCSI media changers deviceatapicam deviceda# Direct Access (disks) devicesa# Sequential Access (tape etc) devicecd# CD devicepass# Passthrough device (direct ATA/SCSI access) deviceses# SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE) $uname -a FreeBSD ..net 9.0-BETA3 FreeBSD 9.0-BETA3 #0: Sat Oct 8 19:48:29 CDT 2011 michael@..net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/KERNEL_100811 amd64 This kernel was built after a recent csup and portsnap fetch. The buildworld and buildkernel steps have executed several times without error. A recent portupgrade only updated a couple of applications. dmesg says this; cd0 at ata0 bus 0 scbus1 target 0 lun 0 cd0:TSSTcorp DVD+-RW TS-L632H D300 Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device cd0: 33.300MB/s transfers (UDMA2, ATAPI 12bytes, PIO 65534bytes) cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present - tray closed and /boot/loader.conf says this; linux_load=YES atapicam_load=YES With a music CD in the drive /var/log/messages says this; Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 0 Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:64,0 (Illegal mode for this track) Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): cddone: got error 0x6 back and /etc/devfs.conf says this; # Commonly used by many ports #link acd0cdrom linkcd0 cdrom own cd0 root:wheel permcd0 0660 I think I might be missing something in /etc/devfs.conf. man devfs.conf or the handbook did not get me any closer to a solution. It worked under 8.2 on this machine. Thank You for the help. What does: $ ls -l /dev | grep cd give you? I assume you're a member of wheel. Give cdcontrol(1) a go if the above looks ok. Make sure your volume isn't turned right down! (mixer(1)) Have you checked out that your sound card is configured ok? $ cat /dev/sndstat Regards, $ ls -l /dev | grep cd crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 0, 119 Oct 10 04:29 cd0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel3 Oct 10 04:29 cdrom - cd0 $ cdcontrol status Audio status = 21void, current track = 1, current position = 0:00.09 Media catalog is active, number 0826663409727\000\013 Left volume = 216, right volume = 216 $ cdcontrol reset cdcontrol: Inappropriate ioctl for device $ cdcontrol play $ cdcontrol status Audio status = 17playing, current track = 1, current position = 1:05.18 No media catalog info available Left volume = 216, right volume = 216 $ tail /var/log/messages Oct 10 04:30:50 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): cddone: got error 0x6 back Oct 10 04:30:55 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Activated service 'org.freedesktop.SystemToolsBackends.SMBConfig' failed: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 255 Oct 10 04:30:55 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Activated service 'org.freedesktop.SystemToolsBackends.NFSConfig' failed: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 255 Oct 10 04:30:56 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Activating service name='org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.DateTimeMechanism' (using servicehelper) Oct 10 04:30:56 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Successfully activated service 'org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.DateTimeMechanism' Oct 10 04:37:41 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): MODE_SENSE(6) failed, increasing minimum CDB size to 10 bytes Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ SUB-CHANNEL. CDB: 42 2 40 2 0 0 0 0 18 0 Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:0,11 (Audio play operation in progress) Still will not play. Tried 2 different CD's. Thank You, Michael ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't access a music CD
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 04:47:40AM -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: On 10/10/11 01:37, Frank Shute wrote: On Sun, Oct 09, 2011 at 08:33:01PM -0500, Michael D. Norwick wrote: Good Day; Since installing FreeBSD 9-beta2 (now 9-beta3) I have not been able to play a music cd with the dvd writer on this laptop. It is a Dell Latitude D630. I have built several new worlds and kernels with the following devices enabled in the kernel config.; devicescbus# SCSI bus (required for ATA/SCSI) devicech# SCSI media changers deviceatapicam deviceda# Direct Access (disks) devicesa# Sequential Access (tape etc) devicecd# CD devicepass# Passthrough device (direct ATA/SCSI access) deviceses# SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE) $uname -a FreeBSD ..net 9.0-BETA3 FreeBSD 9.0-BETA3 #0: Sat Oct 8 19:48:29 CDT 2011 michael@..net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/KERNEL_100811 amd64 This kernel was built after a recent csup and portsnap fetch. The buildworld and buildkernel steps have executed several times without error. A recent portupgrade only updated a couple of applications. dmesg says this; cd0 at ata0 bus 0 scbus1 target 0 lun 0 cd0:TSSTcorp DVD+-RW TS-L632H D300 Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device cd0: 33.300MB/s transfers (UDMA2, ATAPI 12bytes, PIO 65534bytes) cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present - tray closed and /boot/loader.conf says this; linux_load=YES atapicam_load=YES With a music CD in the drive /var/log/messages says this; Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 0 Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:64,0 (Illegal mode for this track) Oct 9 20:19:01 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): cddone: got error 0x6 back and /etc/devfs.conf says this; # Commonly used by many ports #link acd0cdrom linkcd0 cdrom own cd0 root:wheel permcd0 0660 I think I might be missing something in /etc/devfs.conf. man devfs.conf or the handbook did not get me any closer to a solution. It worked under 8.2 on this machine. Thank You for the help. What does: $ ls -l /dev | grep cd give you? I assume you're a member of wheel. Give cdcontrol(1) a go if the above looks ok. Make sure your volume isn't turned right down! (mixer(1)) Have you checked out that your sound card is configured ok? $ cat /dev/sndstat Regards, $ ls -l /dev | grep cd crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 0, 119 Oct 10 04:29 cd0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel3 Oct 10 04:29 cdrom - cd0 $ cdcontrol status Audio status = 21void, current track = 1, current position = 0:00.09 Media catalog is active, number 0826663409727\000\013 Left volume = 216, right volume = 216 $ cdcontrol reset cdcontrol: Inappropriate ioctl for device $ cdcontrol play $ cdcontrol status Audio status = 17playing, current track = 1, current position = 1:05.18 No media catalog info available Left volume = 216, right volume = 216 This looks like it's playing. Is the CD/DVD drive active? $ tail /var/log/messages Oct 10 04:30:50 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): cddone: got error 0x6 back Oct 10 04:30:55 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Activated service 'org.freedesktop.SystemToolsBackends.SMBConfig' failed: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 255 Oct 10 04:30:55 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Activated service 'org.freedesktop.SystemToolsBackends.NFSConfig' failed: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 255 Oct 10 04:30:56 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Activating service name='org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.DateTimeMechanism' (using servicehelper) Oct 10 04:30:56 bucksnort dbus[1953]: [system] Successfully activated service 'org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.DateTimeMechanism' Oct 10 04:37:41 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): MODE_SENSE(6) failed, increasing minimum CDB size to 10 bytes Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): READ SUB-CHANNEL. CDB: 42 2 40 2 0 0 0 0 18 0 Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): CAM status: SCSI Status Error Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI status: Check Condition Oct 10 04:39:43 bucksnort kernel: (cd0:ata0:0:0:0): SCSI sense: ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:0,11 (Audio play operation in progress) Again, looks like it's playing Still will not play. Tried 2 different CD's. Thank You, If the drive is active and you're not getting sound out: What does: $ mixer $ cat /dev/sndstat show? Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html pgpN1jzab84LU.pgp Description: PGP