Re: Deinstall software
2009/5/31 Polytropon free...@edvax.de: On Sat, 30 May 2009 18:55:15 -0400, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: For (my own) clarity sake, won't that take up space in '/'? (Not arguing, just never thought of using /opt on FreeBSD...) This depends on your file system layout, Glen. If you put everything into one partition, i. e. /, then everything is going into /. If you have separate partitions, e. g. /, /tmp, /var, /usr and /home, then /opt would take space on /. On most installations that use this approach, / is as big as needed for what it is used: the basic SUM stuff and mountpoints, nothing more. Of couse, it's possible to extend the approach mentioned to have another partition for /opt. In order to not to deal with this problem, one could even make a symlink /opt@ - /usr/local2. To summarize: You are correct. :-) By the way, I've not seen anyone using /opt on FreeBSD yet, I just wanted to mention that it is possible. (There are other Solarisisms that I've already seen, such as /export on FreeBSD which is usually used on Solaris for NFS shares.) IIRC, I installed NetBeans onto my computer a really long time ago... and it wormed into /opt. Disgraceful behaviour, I can't remember why I didn't use ports. That was when I switched to Eclipse! Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
For (my own) clarity sake, won't that take up space in '/'? (Not in my case yes as / is usually my only filesystem. for those who keep programs (/usr) separate /usr/local2 or /usr/whatever will be OK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
This depends on your file system layout, Glen. If you put everything into one partition, i. e. /, then everything is going into /. like in my case. with one exception - now i usually have /tmp separate but it's tmpfs :) other Solarisisms that I've already seen, such as /export on FreeBSD which is usually used on Solaris for NFS shares.) does Solaris REQUIRE things to be in /export to be able to export through NFS or is it just some kind of tradition or routinely repeated rule? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sun, 31 May 2009 10:30:44 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: does Solaris REQUIRE things to be in /export to be able to export through NFS or is it just some kind of tradition or routinely repeated rule? No, just tradition or convention. In most cases, there are other structures than just /home exported via NFS, so there's /export/home, and maybe e. g. /export/packages and /export/www. I've not seen it on Solaris in another way. There's another interestin IRIXism: As far as I remember, the home directory was kept under /usr (like our /usr/home), but called /usr/people... -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
all your examples are sounds just like kind of tradition. Just like for eg. creating lots of partitions no matter if it's needed or not On Sun, 31 May 2009, Polytropon wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009 10:30:44 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: does Solaris REQUIRE things to be in /export to be able to export through NFS or is it just some kind of tradition or routinely repeated rule? No, just tradition or convention. In most cases, there are other structures than just /home exported via NFS, so there's /export/home, and maybe e. g. /export/packages and /export/www. I've not seen it on Solaris in another way. There's another interestin IRIXism: As far as I remember, the home directory was kept under /usr (like our /usr/home), but called /usr/people... -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
Wojciech Puchar wrote:
other Solarisisms that I've already seen, such as /export
on FreeBSD which is usually used on Solaris for NFS shares.)
does Solaris REQUIRE things to be in /export to be able to export
through NFS or is it just some kind of tradition or routinely repeated
rule?
It's just a convention. Filesystems to be exported live under /export,
and are frequently automounted under /net/{hostname} or /home/{hostname}
depending on their intended purpose.
You don't have to arrange things like that, just as you don't have to
install ports under /usr/local. ie. you'ld have to have a pretty
good reason to go against the convention.
In fact, given that FreeBSD doesn't seem to have a native convention on
how exported filesystems are laid out (no mention in hier(7), no default
/etc/exports file), it would make sense to adopt the Solaris/Linux style where
feasible. Mount points etc. aren't going to work exactly the same due to
Solaris/Linux preferentially using autofs and FreeBSD using amd(8) (yes, I
know there has been some progress on autofs under FreeBSD, but it's not 100%
yet[*]), but from a user perspective it should all work the same.
Cheers,
Matthew
[*] http://www.fsl.cs.stonybrook.edu/docs/freebsd-autofs/autofs.pdf
--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Deinstall software
On Sun, 31 May 2009 10:49:18 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: all your examples are sounds just like kind of tradition. Just like for eg. creating lots of partitions no matter if it's needed or not One exception: The creation of different partitions according to different uses can (but doesn't neccessarily have to) be useful if partition-wise dumps are required or intended. As you know, there are advantages and disadvantages. There can be trouble, causing only one of the partition to get defects; it's easy to dump and restore data partition-wise, even for to clone system installations. On the other hand, you can run into problems according to static space limits which you don't when you have only one / partition and all directories are resized automatically (haha)... :-) File system defects will of course affect the whole partition then. (But that's a different situation anyway: If there's trouble with some hard disk, better transfer what you can get onto a new media and wipe the disk; does it happen two times, better use a new hard disk - or similar advice applies.) It depends on the requirements. Sometimes it's good, sometimes bad, and sometimes everything altogether... How many fingers? ;-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
In fact, given that FreeBSD doesn't seem to have a native convention on how exported filesystems are laid out (no mention in hier(7), no default /etc/exports file), it would make sense to adopt the Solaris/Linux style where feasible. it's best not to adopt any style, but do whatever is optimal in certain case. You propose just another example of blind repeated rule. Your idea won't hurt in single-disk, single-partition case, but this case is prohibited by other blind repeat rule of making lots of partitions. What if i want export things from multiple disks? just make one another separete partition on each disk for /export/something just to make system config look nice or professional because it's good to have NFS exported things to stay in /export Such practices gives only illusion or cleanliness and order, actually giving exactly opposite. Actually one ZFS adventage grown on this - it allows you to make millions of partitions without actually creating them, because it's all still stored in one pool. But those who feel configuration with a lots of partitions cleanness and order are happy now. I see this as just a pure mess, not an order. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
One exception: The creation of different partitions according to different uses can (but doesn't neccessarily have to) be useful if partition-wise dumps are required or intended. As you know, there are advantages and disadvantages. There can This is only adventage - to use dump. Anyway - do someone use dump (not tar or similar) on terabyte-sized partition. For me it never succeeded, even if it dumps successfully produced output could be unrestorable. After getting this twice i stayed away from this great (but nonworking) tool. Backup tool that are not 100% sure is not a backup tool. with tar, rsync, whatever - partitioning no longer matters as they work on file/directory abstraction level. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sun, 31 May 2009 11:19:10 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: For me it never succeeded, even if it dumps successfully produced output could be unrestorable. After getting this twice i stayed away from this great (but nonworking) tool. Backup tool that are not 100% sure is not a backup tool. with tar, rsync, whatever - partitioning no longer matters as they work on file/directory abstraction level. I've recently discovered cpdup on another UFS formatted HDD for this job. Until now, works good. I just prefer dump + restore for cloning systems because it explicitely takes care of file attributes and anything; I do use it usually from hard disk to hard disk, not via storage media (backup set). -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
Wojciech Puchar wrote: Your idea won't hurt in single-disk, single-partition case, but this case is prohibited by other blind repeat rule of making lots of partitions. I didn't say anything about how file system layout should be mapped to disk partitions[*]. Nor do I support the concept of making lots and lots of small partitions. Check the archives: I'm one of the people that regularly advocates the 'one big root' style. Cheers, Matthew [*] Although historically there have been bugs with NFS exports making it possible to access any files on the same partition, which would make a separate partition for /exports a damn good idea. -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Deinstall software
On Sun, 31 May 2009 11:15:19 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: it's best not to adopt any style, but do whatever is optimal in certain case. You propose just another example of blind repeated rule. It is often found as corporate standard. This doesn't mean you have to use it on your own systems, but it helps to understand why things are there and configured in a specific way. With ZFS, of course, there's much room for improvement. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
I just prefer dump + restore for cloning systems because it explicitely takes care of file attributes and anything; I do use You are right, but rsync can do the same :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
Your idea won't hurt in single-disk, single-partition case, but this case is prohibited by other blind repeat rule of making lots of partitions. I didn't say anything about how file system layout should be mapped to disk partitions[*]. Nor do I support the concept of making lots and lots of small partitions. Check the archives: I'm one of the people that regularly advocates the 'one big root' style. I did't tell you said this, just compared the idea of the only right directory layout with this. [*] Although historically there have been bugs with NFS exports making it possible to access any files on the same partition, which would make a separate partition for /exports a damn good idea. And this is probably the reason for /exports tradition in Solaris. At first - this is solution for some problem, then - it's dumbly repeated even if problem doesn't exist any more. The same with partitioning. In very very old unices with pre-FFS filesystem it actually improved performance, speed up checking, improved recovery so they did it. Now it no longer gives any adventage in most cases, just gives problem of making one partition too small and other too big. Yet - it's dumbly followed as a rule, and explained by repeating the reasons that are no longer true for years. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
case. You propose just another example of blind repeated rule. It is often found as corporate standard. This doesn't mean you Well i don't expect many smart people working in big corporations. There are exceptions of course - those that got there by accident and not yet left ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
Hi! I installed my software using csup and make install. Now there are new you mean FreeBSD or some add on software? as assume latter. you should use ports for installing software. if there are no port for it, you should write it and contribute ;) but if you already did this way, then you have 2 choices 1) there are often make deinstall in such sources working, it will work if target directory will be the same as before 2) find out manually what files it put where and delete. If you need to install software this was, try to set target directory base not in /usr, to not make mess with base system, and not /usr/local - to not mess with ports. creating /usr/local2 is a good choice ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sat, 30 May 2009 20:54:10 +0200, Markus Künkler mar...@amobos.org wrote: Hi! I installed my software using csup and make install. Now there are new versions available. How can i deinstall the old software with depencies or upgrade the complete stuff? I want to use make for that and it should ignore if an old version is already installed or deinstall the old version automiticaly. If you're talking about the OS itself, you can simply follow the instractions in the handbook, where it explains the upgrading of the system (including steps like make update, make buildworld and buildkernel, mergemaster, and make installkernel and installworld, maybe KERNCONF). For the ports, you enter the port's directory, run # make deinstall and then # make # make install # make clean (you can of course combine it to make install clean). If you want to automate it, you can use tools from the portmgmt/ category, such as portupgrade or portmaster. --- I think that is what you're searching for. But you're talking about software that is not supported through the FreeBSD ports system, you need to rely on what the source creator gave to you (install / update / deinstall scripts). -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sat, 30 May 2009 21:20:13 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: If you need to install software this was, try to set target directory base not in /usr, to not make mess with base system, and not /usr/local - to not mess with ports. creating /usr/local2 is a good choice You can even keep it out of /usr employing the /opt Linuxism. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
creating /usr/local2 is a good choice You can even keep it out of /usr employing the /opt Linuxism. :-) no matter what's the name, but it's good to have /usr/local for ports-based installed things /some/other/directory for hand-installed things so both base system and ports are clearly separated ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 09:35:35PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: You can even keep it out of /usr employing the /opt Linuxism. :-) /opt is actually a Solarism... ;-) -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sat, 30 May 2009 23:50:42 +0200, cpghost cpgh...@cordula.ws wrote: /opt is actually a Solarism... ;-) That's true, but nobody knows, because Solaris doesn't exist. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
Polytropon, On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: You can even keep it out of /usr employing the /opt Linuxism. :-) For (my own) clarity sake, won't that take up space in '/'? (Not arguing, just never thought of using /opt on FreeBSD...) -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sat, 30 May 2009 18:55:15 -0400, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: For (my own) clarity sake, won't that take up space in '/'? (Not arguing, just never thought of using /opt on FreeBSD...) This depends on your file system layout, Glen. If you put everything into one partition, i. e. /, then everything is going into /. If you have separate partitions, e. g. /, /tmp, /var, /usr and /home, then /opt would take space on /. On most installations that use this approach, / is as big as needed for what it is used: the basic SUM stuff and mountpoints, nothing more. Of couse, it's possible to extend the approach mentioned to have another partition for /opt. In order to not to deal with this problem, one could even make a symlink /opt@ - /usr/local2. To summarize: You are correct. :-) By the way, I've not seen anyone using /opt on FreeBSD yet, I just wanted to mention that it is possible. (There are other Solarisisms that I've already seen, such as /export on FreeBSD which is usually used on Solaris for NFS shares.) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Deinstall software
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Sat, 30 May 2009 18:55:15 -0400, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: For (my own) clarity sake, won't that take up space in '/'? (Not arguing, just never thought of using /opt on FreeBSD...) This depends on your file system layout, Glen. If you put everything into one partition, i. e. /, then everything is going into /. Ah, yes. I forgot people do that -- hence my question. :) -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
