Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
> > On Tuesday 03 January 2006 16:50, Josh Soza wrote: > > Allen wrote: > > >I wrote this quite a while ago and I've posted it to the docs list before > > > and it got a good repsonce, but I've seen a couple install questions on > > > here so I'm going to link to it again for this list. I don't think there > > > is an easier to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did > > > do very well with it in making it easy as crap to install: > > > > > >http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259335 > > > > > >You don't have to sign up to read this. > > > > > >-Allen > > > > First off this is NOT a flame. But I found your tutorial extremely hard > > to follow. First what does a user do if they can't boot from CD? > > I believe in the intro I pointed out "Assumptions" that you need to boot from > CD for this particular tutorial. May God have mercy on anyone trying to do a > floppy install. Even the books say not to do that. Doing the full install from floppy would be tortuous, but using the floppy to boot the sysinstall and then doing the installation over the net is reasonable - not much different from using the CD to install over the net - which is what I normally do. jerry > > Ah here it is: > > Assumptions: > You have a CD-ROM drive > > > -josh > > > > p.s. Hello World! Sorry I'm a newbie...Had to get that out :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
> > Allen wrote: > > >On Tuesday 03 January 2006 16:50, Josh Soza wrote: > > > <..snip..> > > >And another mail I sent to the list today, I pointed out the reason I didn't > >link tot he docs. I WANT people to BUY the books from Free BSD to help > >support the project. You can't possibly think that was wrong of me, the > >developers need to eat too. > > > > For the sake of argument, most of those publishers do not contribute to > the community anyways. I think that is true, but just having some traffic in their FreeBSD selection is positive and supports the possibility that they might just publish more. > I believe the freebsdmall contributes a portion > of all profits to the project, im not 100% sure though.. I have heard they do, but don't know any details. jerry > > Regards, > Frank > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
Allen wrote: On Tuesday 03 January 2006 16:50, Josh Soza wrote: <..snip..> And another mail I sent to the list today, I pointed out the reason I didn't link tot he docs. I WANT people to BUY the books from Free BSD to help support the project. You can't possibly think that was wrong of me, the developers need to eat too. For the sake of argument, most of those publishers do not contribute to the community anyways. I believe the freebsdmall contributes a portion of all profits to the project, im not 100% sure though.. Regards, Frank ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 16:50, Josh Soza wrote: > Allen wrote: > >I wrote this quite a while ago and I've posted it to the docs list before > > and it got a good repsonce, but I've seen a couple install questions on > > here so I'm going to link to it again for this list. I don't think there > > is an easier to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did > > do very well with it in making it easy as crap to install: > > > >http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259335 > > > >You don't have to sign up to read this. > > > >-Allen > > First off this is NOT a flame. But I found your tutorial extremely hard > to follow. First what does a user do if they can't boot from CD? I believe in the intro I pointed out "Assumptions" that you need to boot from CD for this particular tutorial. May God have mercy on anyone trying to do a floppy install. Even the books say not to do that. Ah here it is: Assumptions: You have a CD-ROM drive You won't be sharing the HD with another OS (If you are, when it comes time to partition, you're on your own I won't be showing you how to partition to use another OS with it, as I don't, and don't feel the need to, as there is enough documentation to get you through this anyway, and besides, you have to partition to use Free BSD anyway, so if you can do that, you can do it to allow another OS to reside on disk with Free BSD too.) You will be setting up a network connection. (If you are not, then skip that section). > Are > there any preinstallation tasks like: inventory of hardware, ps/2 mouse > or serial, size of partitions, user accounts/groups(other than root). I > personally find it easier if you have a plan rather than shooting from > the hip. Again I believe that was pointed out as well where I pointed out the others I wrote, those say to grab all hardware info from your current OS as you'll need it. And I believe it was pointed out in this one as well. Not positive as I'm not reading through the entire thing, I've been up for 24 hours and I'm to tired to look when I know my other tutorials are linked to at the bottom and that do say to do so. > You should have just told people to use the FreeBSD book or goto the > handbook online. I did Several times. Except I took out online and put "Buy these two books as they are good for anyone using BSD". Again, I believe people should at least buy those two books listed in the tutorial, both go over installs with pictures, and again, this was meant for people that you rightly pointed out don't care how the computer works. The users who've read it and used it have told me it was the easiest doc the have ever read and they were glad it was in non technical terms for them. A couple admins told me they have printed this out and put it up at the office. > Another thing is that most people don't want to know or figure out how > to install an operating system. They just want that puter thing to > work. They don't care about disk partitions, video cards, or mouse > daemons they just want it to work. > You say: > > "I don't think there is an easier > to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did do very well > with > it in making it easy as crap to install" > > I guess thats anitonline.com for yah. > What about http://www.freebsd.org/handbook as Frank said. > You should join the core team with your humbleness. Then in a later > post on this thread you go onto say "Lots more but I'm not going to > waste space." For that I applaude you ;) Again this isn't a flame just > being brutally honest. I think Frank said it best "Good luck on your > future writing, I hope that I didnt come across to strong on this post, > But it is what it is." If I got bothered because someone didn't appreciate my work I'd sure be depressed. I've been flamed to the point someone said something I wrote was complete crap and I should commit suicide. THAT was harsh. And another mail I sent to the list today, I pointed out the reason I didn't link tot he docs. I WANT people to BUY the books from Free BSD to help support the project. You can't possibly think that was wrong of me, the developers need to eat too. > > -josh > > p.s. Hello World! Sorry I'm a newbie...Had to get that out :) > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
Allen wrote: I wrote this quite a while ago and I've posted it to the docs list before and it got a good repsonce, but I've seen a couple install questions on here so I'm going to link to it again for this list. I don't think there is an easier to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did do very well with it in making it easy as crap to install: http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259335 You don't have to sign up to read this. -Allen First off this is NOT a flame. But I found your tutorial extremely hard to follow. First what does a user do if they can't boot from CD? Are there any preinstallation tasks like: inventory of hardware, ps/2 mouse or serial, size of partitions, user accounts/groups(other than root). I personally find it easier if you have a plan rather than shooting from the hip. You should have just told people to use the FreeBSD book or goto the handbook online. Another thing is that most people don't want to know or figure out how to install an operating system. They just want that puter thing to work. They don't care about disk partitions, video cards, or mouse daemons they just want it to work. You say: "I don't think there is an easier to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did do very well with it in making it easy as crap to install" I guess thats anitonline.com for yah. What about http://www.freebsd.org/handbook as Frank said. You should join the core team with your humbleness. Then in a later post on this thread you go onto say "Lots more but I'm not going to waste space." For that I applaude you ;) Again this isn't a flame just being brutally honest. I think Frank said it best "Good luck on your future writing, I hope that I didnt come across to strong on this post, But it is what it is." -josh p.s. Hello World! Sorry I'm a newbie...Had to get that out :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 12:30, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2006-01-03 12:25, fbsd_user <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Monday 02 January 2006 10:52, fbsd_user wrote: > > > here is another install guide more up to date > > > > > >http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/fbsd_installguide/index.php > > > > When I finish with getting Free BSD 6.0 I'll write another one the > > same way I did that one. > > > > Are you claiming authorship for the install guide at the above URL? No, I claimed authorship to the link I posted in the original message. I tried to trim out a huge chunk but for some reason that was what it ended up with. although I know I left more than this in there. The original message I sent has a link to the one I wrote, I said I would make it the same as the one I wrote and explained what i meant further down in the message. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
fbsd_user wrote: > here is another install guide more up to date > >http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/fbsd_installguide/index.php > > This is an excellent howto. Explains each step in detail, and highlights key points. also shows screenshots of the entire process. __ Frank Laszlo System Administrator The VonOstin Group Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW:http://www.vonostingroup.com Mobile: 248-863-7584 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
On 2006-01-03 12:25, fbsd_user <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 02 January 2006 10:52, fbsd_user wrote: > > here is another install guide more up to date > > > >http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/fbsd_installguide/index.php > > When I finish with getting Free BSD 6.0 I'll write another one the > same way I did that one. > > Are you claiming authorship for the install guide at the above URL? Nice quoting and attribution of post snippets there... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
On Monday 02 January 2006 10:52, fbsd_user wrote: > here is another install guide more up to date > >http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/fbsd_installguide/index.php When I finish with getting Free BSD 6.0 I'll write another one the same way I did that one. Are you claiming authorship for the install guide at the above URL? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
On Monday 02 January 2006 10:52, fbsd_user wrote: > here is another install guide more up to date > >http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/fbsd_installguide/index.php When I finish with getting Free BSD 6.0 I'll write another one the same way I did that one. And another poster said I should have linked to the docs for help, but there was a reason that was left out. See people use this OS for free and never pay for anything to help the developers out. So I instead of linking to free docs told them to BUY two books. This helps them out in that they have a book to look at instead of docs. and the developers get at least a little extra cash for the project. So far I've gotten fairly good feed back but some people didn't quite like it. That's fine, however I got a lot of mail from people who loved that tutorial and said they were thinking of trying a new OS and wanted BSD but the docs were to confusing for some reason or another so they weren't going to install it because it wouldn't work and after reading that, they got it. Another poster said I should not have said "Hit this or that arrow key however many times" well, to be honest, I don't plan on making it say "scroll" in the next one I write. I did that once and people went for their mouses to scroll THAT is why I said hit arrow keys. It's only more confusing to people who can just read the Free BSD docs already out there, this was for people coming from Windows where scroll means something on the mouse. My target audience for this wasn't people who already use it, it was for people who never have used anything but Windows. And yes I didn't add anything on configuration because I took most questions myself and then if I couldn't figure out their problems I pointed them to the docs. This worked for most of them and I'm happy with the tournout. So thanks all for the comments, I'll take most of them into consideration for the next one except for the one about scrolling. Sorry man but that would confuse people worse than me saying to hit arrow keys a certain number of times. Believe me, I have an aunt who thinks she's a hacker and good with computers but at the same time thinks the icon in her Windows 98 task bar that tells her she's online with her ISP, is the reaosn her computer doesn't work. Yea. Neat huh? ;) I tested this tutorial out with users who've never used anything but Windows and know nothing at all about computers, I think it did the job of getting people to at least try BSD out as I haven't heard of anyone following this and not getting the thing installed. Wait I take that back, two people couldn't install with it, however, that was from one having a USB keyboard that didn't work and another a USB mouse. So other than that, it's worked for everyone I've told to try it. Can't be that bad of a tutorial, it was published 3 times heh. I've done similar tutorials where I tell exactly which key to press and when, for the following: Slackware SUSE Dual booting Debian and windows XP Dual booting Slackware and Free BSD Dual booting SUSE and Windows XP Lots more but I'm not going to waste space. Anyway, this is longer than I intended so I'll stop here and wait for more comments. I'm not trying to make others sound stupid, my goal is making Unix easier for people who aren't good with computer in general. They need it most of all, Windows is WAY to confusing for a person new to computers, you have to use AV software for worms and so on, and adware scanners, it's to much for a user new to computing, I recommend Linux and BSD to people who don't know much. > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
here is another install guide more up to date http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/fbsd_installguide/index.php -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Allen Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 5:35 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote I wrote this quite a while ago and I've posted it to the docs list before and it got a good repsonce, but I've seen a couple install questions on here so I'm going to link to it again for this list. I don't think there is an easier to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did do very well with it in making it easy as crap to install: http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259335 You don't have to sign up to read this. -Allen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
On Sunday 01 January 2006 19:09, Frank J. Laszlo wrote: > User B on the other hand is running Free BSD, and has no idea how to > update it. SSH was installed and running by default, and the user > doesn't know how to use upgrade_pkg. See below, this wasn't a part of the tutorial. > What is "upgrade_pkg?" I think you mean portupgrade. > > Overall, my rant is just the fact I dont think you are in a position to > be judging security of an OS without knowing the OS. Its apparent that > you do not. I'm not going to comment on the accuracy of your slackware > experience, I think I read that you've been using it for 2 years? Good > luck on your future writing, I hope that I didnt come across to strong > on this post, But it is what it is. Well the reply you are reffering to is a paper I started writing and haven't finished. The first post was the tutorial and a few people asked me to post the paper I had been writing, it appears on the same page but has nothing to do with the tutorial which is the very first post listed. As I said the other reply was a paper I was asked to post so it wasn't part of it in any way shape or form. > > Regards, > Frank > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
Hello Allen, Sunday, January 1, 2006, 11:34:52 PM, you wrote: > I wrote this quite a while ago and I've posted it to the docs list before and > it got a good repsonce, but I've seen a couple install questions on here so > I'm going to link to it again for this list. I don't think there is an easier > to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did do very well with > it in making it easy as crap to install: I think handbook is here for this purpose (and people should be following it, as it is being updated on regular occasion, though there is possibility to find out-dated info and people are encouraged to notify doc@ people to update information provided) but no offense :) > http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259335 > You don't have to sign up to read this. > -Allen -- Best regards, Danielmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Free BSD install tutorial I wrote
Allen wrote: I wrote this quite a while ago and I've posted it to the docs list before and it got a good repsonce, but I've seen a couple install questions on here so I'm going to link to it again for this list. I don't think there is an easier to follow installer help anywhere. Not arrogance, but I did do very well with it in making it easy as crap to install: http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259335 You don't have to sign up to read this. -Allen I dont want this to sound like a flame, though it will probably come across that way. But there are many typographical errors in your "howto" and also many misconceptions that could cause newbies to be confused. I found myself getting confused and I've been using FreeBSD for years. Heres a few notable portions: A) FreeBSD 5.0 is very old, and was never a production release, I noticed you wrote your howto in 2002, so I'll let that one slide. B) Using words like "Hit enter twice" "down" "up" "right" etc.. will confuse people. you're better of saying something along the lines of. "Scroll down to 'foo'" etc. C) You make a reference to X86, I assume you mean "XFree86" Overall is gives a pretty basic description of the procedure, however you should reference the freebsd handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook) for more information on certain sections. Now, heres where its gets raunchy, I read further in the post, and you are making reference to security on freebsd. If you actually read the advisories, you will notice 9 times out of 10 they are applications on the base system, generally not exploitable remotely. Also, You have to remember that freebsd base and kernel are developed together, I'll find you'll be hard to find a freebsd 'kernel' exploit. Oh, just noticed, you said: User B on the other hand is running Free BSD, and has no idea how to update it. SSH was installed and running by default, and the user doesn't know how to use upgrade_pkg. What is "upgrade_pkg?" I think you mean portupgrade. Overall, my rant is just the fact I dont think you are in a position to be judging security of an OS without knowing the OS. Its apparent that you do not. I'm not going to comment on the accuracy of your slackware experience, I think I read that you've been using it for 2 years? Good luck on your future writing, I hope that I didnt come across to strong on this post, But it is what it is. Regards, Frank ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"