Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:22:59AM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote: > > From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Wed Oct 20 15:04:17 2010 > > From: Mike Jeays > > To: Bob Hall , > > FreeBSD Mailing List > > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:05:34 -0400 > > Cc: > > Subject: Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD) > > > > On October 20, 2010 03:46:06 pm Bob Hall wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > > > > On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > > > >> Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > > >>> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > > escribi?: > > > > >>>>PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > > > > >>>>780 days :-) > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > > > >> > > > > >> Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > > > > >> The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > > > > >> > > > > > I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory > > > > > Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my > > > > > job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and > > > > > the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody > > > > > old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really > > > > > *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having > > > > > php running. (Blah^9^9^9) > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. > > > > We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... > > > > > > When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. > > > We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using > > > magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to > > > pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. > > > > OK, I guess you win! End-of-thread time? > > Well, if one is going to get into that kind of bragging, the first *mainframe* > I worked on didn't have any disks at all. purely mag-tape based. An early- > generation IBM system/360 with a whopping 64k words of _core_ memory. The > operating system was "TOS" (the ape perating ystem), predecessor of > DOS, which the machine was upgraded to when they got a couple of hard-disks > for it. Single user, bare-bones batch processing, punch-card input. late > 1960s. I learned FORTRAN back in summer quarter '78 on a CDC-6400 that used punch cards. Had to use my _nose_ to finish one card. The 6400 took up a chunk of the basement of Evans HAll and had a HUGE 64k of core! That's the limit of my bragging--er, commenting:-) "TOS"? , LOL, ROFL ... > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix The 7.90a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php http://journey.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Arthur Chance wrote: > Dredging up physics unused for 30+ years, ferrite is ferromagnetic and > intensifies magnetic fields so a coil of wire with ferrite inside is a > massively bigger inductor then an empty coil. I vaguely remember that brass > is slightly diamagnetic, but could be mistaken. Bingo. A ferrite slug increases the inductance of a coil, relative to an air core; a brass slug decreases it. I've got a homebrew amateur radio transceiver that uses a coil with a brass machine screw in it for tuning. Wind the screw out of the coil, inductance goes up. A cheap and simple form of permeability-tuned oscillator. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
My first machine was an IBM 1620, but hey, at least we had an actual disk. A couple of 2311's. To quote a fellow I used to consult for, two days' I had solved a particularly nasty programming problem for his company, "But what have you done for us lately?" On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:57 AM, RW wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:32:23 +0100 > Arthur Chance wrote: > > > On 10/21/10 13:38, RW wrote: > > > On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:10:28 +0100 > > > Arthur Chance wrote: > > > > > > > > >> 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by > > >> inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin > > >> board. > > > > > > I wonder why it was brass/ferrite rather than brass/empty or > > > ferrite/empty. > > > > Dredging up physics unused for 30+ years, ferrite is ferromagnetic > > and intensifies magnetic fields so a coil of wire with ferrite inside > > is a massively bigger inductor then an empty coil. I vaguely remember > > that brass is slightly diamagnetic, but could be mistaken. If it is, > > then it would have the opposite effect and reduce the inductance, so > > you'd get a better difference in signal between brass/ferrite than > > air/ferrite. > > Possibly. I'm wondering if there might be three states, where the third > state is writable. > > > Air/brass would give very small differences in signal, > > I was thinking in that case it would be open/short circuit. > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:32:23 +0100 Arthur Chance wrote: > On 10/21/10 13:38, RW wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:10:28 +0100 > > Arthur Chance wrote: > > > > > >> 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by > >> inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin > >> board. > > > > I wonder why it was brass/ferrite rather than brass/empty or > > ferrite/empty. > > Dredging up physics unused for 30+ years, ferrite is ferromagnetic > and intensifies magnetic fields so a coil of wire with ferrite inside > is a massively bigger inductor then an empty coil. I vaguely remember > that brass is slightly diamagnetic, but could be mistaken. If it is, > then it would have the opposite effect and reduce the inductance, so > you'd get a better difference in signal between brass/ferrite than > air/ferrite. Possibly. I'm wondering if there might be three states, where the third state is writable. > Air/brass would give very small differences in signal, I was thinking in that case it would be open/short circuit. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 01:38:44PM +0100, RW wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:10:28 +0100 > Arthur Chance wrote: > > 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by > > inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. > > I wonder why it was brass/ferrite rather than brass/empty or > ferrite/empty. I was wondering the same thing. I suspect one of them may be equivalent to empty electrically, however this way is less errorprone, explicitly populating each slot, rather than relying upon empty, which could in fact be a mistaken omission. Alex ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 10/21/10 13:38, RW wrote: On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:10:28 +0100 Arthur Chance wrote: 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. I wonder why it was brass/ferrite rather than brass/empty or ferrite/empty. Dredging up physics unused for 30+ years, ferrite is ferromagnetic and intensifies magnetic fields so a coil of wire with ferrite inside is a massively bigger inductor then an empty coil. I vaguely remember that brass is slightly diamagnetic, but could be mistaken. If it is, then it would have the opposite effect and reduce the inductance, so you'd get a better difference in signal between brass/ferrite than air/ferrite. Air/brass would give very small differences in signal, and we're talking about the times when 7400 TTL logic with 4 gates per package was state of the art, so big signals were good. -- "Although the wombat is real and the dragon is not, few know what a wombat looks like, but everyone knows what a dragon looks like." -- Avram Davidson, _Adventures in Unhistory_ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:10:28 +0100 Arthur Chance wrote: > 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by > inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. I wonder why it was brass/ferrite rather than brass/empty or ferrite/empty. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Thu Oct 21 02:18:28 2010 > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:20:07 +0100 > From: Arthur Chance > To: FreeBSD-Questions > Subject: Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD) > > On 10/20/10 23:07, Gary Kline wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 09:10:28PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > >> On 10/20/10 20:46, Bob Hall wrote: > >>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > >>>> On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: > >>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > >>>>>> Matthias Apitz wrote: > >>>>>>> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > >>>>>>> escribi?: > >>>>>>>> PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > >>>>>>>> 780 days :-) > >>>>>>> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > >>>>>> The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > >>>>> > >>>>> I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory > >>>>> Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my > >>>>> job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and > >>>>> the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody > >>>>> old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really > >>>>> *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having > >>>>> php running. (Blah^9^9^9) > >>>>> > >>>>> :) > >>>> > >>>> Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. > >>>> We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... > >>> > >>> When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. > >>> We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using > >>> magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to > >>> pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. > >> > >> Enough Monty Python Yorkshiremen claims, already. :-) > >> > >> Getting back to reality, although I never did it (fortunately), a > >> friend of mine who was about a decade older than me (I'm mid/late > >> 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by > >> inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin > >> board. Anyone got any idea what that was? He was (UK) military so > >> maybe it wasn't a generally known box. > >> > > > > This microcode programming sounds just vagely familiar; seems like > > mid/late-80's or early-90's. Am i right? --Most uses for > > supercomputers are mil/spooks/<<>>; that's the only reason the > > idea might have floated past me. > > No, this was circa 1970. I met him in 1975 and and it was past history > for him then. He was Royal Air Force, if that gives a clue, and > certainly wasn't a super - he talked about it as if it were a fairly > dumb mini. That =had= to have been some kind of fairly specialized, and -very- limited capability, hardware. Probably a crypto translator. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Wed Oct 20 15:04:17 2010 > From: Mike Jeays > To: Bob Hall , > FreeBSD Mailing List > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:05:34 -0400 > Cc: > Subject: Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD) > > On October 20, 2010 03:46:06 pm Bob Hall wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > > > On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > > >> Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > >>> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > escribi?: > > > >>>> PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > > > >>>> 780 days :-) > > > >>> > > > >>> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > > >> > > > >> Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > > > >> The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > > > >> > > > > I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory > > > > Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my > > > > job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and > > > > the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody > > > > old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really > > > > *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having > > > > php running. (Blah^9^9^9) > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. > > > We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... > > > > When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. > > We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using > > magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to > > pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. > > OK, I guess you win! End-of-thread time? Well, if one is going to get into that kind of bragging, the first *mainframe* I worked on didn't have any disks at all. purely mag-tape based. An early- generation IBM system/360 with a whopping 64k words of _core_ memory. The operating system was "TOS" (the ape perating ystem), predecessor of DOS, which the machine was upgraded to when they got a couple of hard-disks for it. Single user, bare-bones batch processing, punch-card input. late 1960s. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 20 October 2010 21:10, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 10/20/10 20:46, Bob Hall wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: >> >>> On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: >>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline >> escribi?: >> >>>PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the >>> VAX >>>780 days :-) >>> >> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. >> > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having php running. (Blah^9^9^9) :) >>> >>> Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. >>> We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... >>> >> >> When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. >> We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using >> magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to >> pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. >> > > Enough Monty Python Yorkshiremen claims, already. :-) > > Getting back to reality, although I never did it (fortunately), a friend of > mine who was about a decade older than me (I'm mid/late 50s) had the > experience of programming microcode on a machine by inserting brass slugs > for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. Anyone got any idea what > that was? He was (UK) military so maybe it wasn't a generally known box. > > > -- > "Although the wombat is real and the dragon is not, few know what a > wombat looks like, but everyone knows what a dragon looks like." > >-- Avram Davidson, _Adventures in Unhistory_ > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > My dad used to smooth the stones for his *abaci* 8)) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
Hi, Reference: > From: David Brodbeck > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:58:40 -0700 > Message-id: David Brodbeck wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Arthur Chance wrote: > > On 10/20/10 20:46, Bob Hall wrote: > > Getting back to reality, although I never did it (fortunately), a friend of > > mine who was about a decade older than me (I'm mid/late 50s) had the > > experience of programming microcode on a machine by inserting brass slugs > > for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. Anyone got any idea what > > that was? He was (UK) military so maybe it wasn't a generally known box. > > Don't know about that one, but some early desktop calculators (and I > think some early computerized phone switching systems) used etched PC > boards as ROM. The HP 9100 had 32K of ROM on a 16-layer PC board > using this method. Some Hasler (a Swiss co.) leased telegraph message switching systemss M150 had that too. I designed some cards with DIL switches, After 1975 I think. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail plain text; Not HTML, quoted-printable & base 64 spam formats. Avoid top posting, it cripples itemised cumulative responses. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
"Svein Skogen (Listmail account)" wrote: > On 20.10.2010 09:47, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > >> escribi?: > >>> PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > >>> 780 days :-) > >> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > I guess I'm just a kid, then, since I wasn't exposed to computers until > 6 years later (my excuse was being born in 1975). CP/M-80 and MP/M-80 > with intel asm, was where I started my hairpulling... Anybody else got > nightmares about 8 inch floppies? ;) If we're going to expand to non-Unix systems: Fortran on an IBM 1401, with punch card input and no OS at all, in 1966. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 10/20/10 23:07, Gary Kline wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 09:10:28PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: On 10/20/10 20:46, Bob Hall wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Matthias Apitz wrote: El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline escribi?: PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX 780 days :-) I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having php running. (Blah^9^9^9) :) Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. Enough Monty Python Yorkshiremen claims, already. :-) Getting back to reality, although I never did it (fortunately), a friend of mine who was about a decade older than me (I'm mid/late 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. Anyone got any idea what that was? He was (UK) military so maybe it wasn't a generally known box. This microcode programming sounds just vagely familiar; seems like mid/late-80's or early-90's. Am i right? --Most uses for supercomputers are mil/spooks/<<>>; that's the only reason the idea might have floated past me. No, this was circa 1970. I met him in 1975 and and it was past history for him then. He was Royal Air Force, if that gives a clue, and certainly wasn't a super - he talked about it as if it were a fairly dumb mini. -- "Although the wombat is real and the dragon is not, few know what a wombat looks like, but everyone knows what a dragon looks like." -- Avram Davidson, _Adventures in Unhistory_ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 07:25:14PM -0400, Rich Kulawiec wrote: > > And I'm appalled that my phone has more horsepower than a dual-cpu VAX > 11/780 with a floating-point accelerator. That just doesn't seem right. What I find appalling is that most of the extra power on my smartphone is wasted on useless crap that only gets in my way. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpW90OzWAa2s.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
Unix, v6, on a PDP-11 (although I can't recall which model), circa 1977.
Got away from it for a bit, then landed in the middle of the v6-v7 shift
and the BSD takeover a couple of years later. Still recall being amazed
by the Fujitsu Eagle ("small" form factor, "large" capacity).
And I'm appalled that my phone has more horsepower than a dual-cpu VAX
11/780 with a floating-point accelerator. That just doesn't seem right.
---rsk
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Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 09:10:28PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 10/20/10 20:46, Bob Hall wrote: > >On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > >>On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: > >>>On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > >escribi?: > >>PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > >>780 days :-) > >I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > >>> > >>> I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory > >>> Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my > >>> job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and > >>> the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody > >>> old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really > >>> *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having > >>> php running. (Blah^9^9^9) > >>> > >>> :) > >> > >>Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. > >>We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... > > > >When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. > >We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using > >magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to > >pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. > > Enough Monty Python Yorkshiremen claims, already. :-) > > Getting back to reality, although I never did it (fortunately), a > friend of mine who was about a decade older than me (I'm mid/late > 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by > inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin > board. Anyone got any idea what that was? He was (UK) military so > maybe it wasn't a generally known box. > This microcode programming sounds just vagely familiar; seems like mid/late-80's or early-90's. Am i right? --Most uses for supercomputers are mil/spooks/<<>>; that's the only reason the idea might have floated past me. Anyway, enjoyed the laughs... . -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix The 7.90a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php http://journey.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 10/20/10 20:46, Bob Hall wrote: > Getting back to reality, although I never did it (fortunately), a friend of > mine who was about a decade older than me (I'm mid/late 50s) had the > experience of programming microcode on a machine by inserting brass slugs > for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. Anyone got any idea what > that was? He was (UK) military so maybe it wasn't a generally known box. Don't know about that one, but some early desktop calculators (and I think some early computerized phone switching systems) used etched PC boards as ROM. The HP 9100 had 32K of ROM on a 16-layer PC board using this method. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 10/20/10 20:46, Bob Hall wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Matthias Apitz wrote: El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline escribi?: PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX 780 days :-) I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having php running. (Blah^9^9^9) :) Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. Enough Monty Python Yorkshiremen claims, already. :-) Getting back to reality, although I never did it (fortunately), a friend of mine who was about a decade older than me (I'm mid/late 50s) had the experience of programming microcode on a machine by inserting brass slugs for 0s and ferrite slugs for 1s on a pin board. Anyone got any idea what that was? He was (UK) military so maybe it wasn't a generally known box. -- "Although the wombat is real and the dragon is not, few know what a wombat looks like, but everyone knows what a dragon looks like." -- Avram Davidson, _Adventures in Unhistory_ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On October 20, 2010 03:46:06 pm Bob Hall wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > > On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > >> Matthias Apitz wrote: > > >>> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline escribi?: > > PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > > 780 days :-) > > >>> > > >>> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > >> > > >> Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > > >> The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > > >> > > > I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory > > > Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my > > > job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and > > > the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody > > > old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really > > > *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having > > > php running. (Blah^9^9^9) > > > > > > :) > > > > Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. > > We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... > > When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. > We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using > magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to > pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to> "freebsd-questions- http://www.jeays.ca http://www.rotarycpmm.ca ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > >> Matthias Apitz wrote: > >>> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > >>> escribi?: > PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > 780 days :-) > >>> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > >> > >> Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > >> The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > > > > I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory > > Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my > > job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and > > the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody > > old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really > > *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having > > php running. (Blah^9^9^9) > > > > :) > > Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. > We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... When I started out, we didn't have read/write heads for the hard disks. We had to copy the data from the screen to the disk by hand using magnetized sewing needles. In order to read the damn things we had to pass a compass over the disk and see where the needle deflected. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 10/20/2010 11:55 AM, Gary Kline wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: >> Matthias Apitz wrote: >>> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline >>> escribi?: PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX 780 days :-) >>> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. >> >> Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. >> The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > > > I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory > Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my > job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and > the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody > old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really > *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having > php running. (Blah^9^9^9) > > :) > > > Heck, when I started out, they didn't even have zeros and ones yet. We had to settle for "o"s and "l"s ... -- Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:32:58AM +0200, Svein Skogen (Listmail account) wrote: > On 20.10.2010 09:47, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > >> escribi?: > >>> PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > >>> 780 days :-) > >> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > > I guess I'm just a kid, then, since I wasn't exposed to computers until > 6 years later (my excuse was being born in 1975). CP/M-80 and MP/M-80 > with intel asm, was where I started my hairpulling... Anybody else got > nightmares about 8 inch floppies? ;) > > //Svein Ouch!! My first computer was a CP/M and MP/M (8080-8088) with two 8" floppies and a HUGE 256K of memory. ...Bought in 1981. Finally junked in 1987. (What, me cheap?) Lots of hair pulling and ---nah, you don't want to hear! gary > > -- > +---+--- > /"\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no > \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 >X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no > / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 > | | sv...@stillbilde.net > ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 > ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net > Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 > +---+--- > |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 > |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE > +---+--- > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > > Picture Gallery: > https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ > > -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix The 7.90a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php http://journey.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:47:38AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Matthias Apitz wrote: > > El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > > escribi?: > > > PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > > > 780 days :-) > > I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. I remember the 11/34 fondly. The whole EE department at Cory Hall was running one one; then when I interned at Livermore my job of porting the "Portable F77 Compiler" was done with vi and the source code that Stu Feldman wrote. I love[d] those bloody old computers, :-) Dunno why. Maybe because they really *were* about computing. Not streaming [[whatever]] or having php running. (Blah^9^9^9) :) -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix The 7.90a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php http://journey.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 00:47:38 -0700 > From: per...@pluto.rain.com > Sender: owner-freebsd-mob...@freebsd.org > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > > El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > > escribi?: > > > PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > > > 780 days :-) > > I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. UNIX V6 on a PDP-11/40, 2xRK05 disk, 1975, but it was before the 11/34 came out, so I think I have you beat by a few weeks, at least. That said, my project moved away from Unix to DEC's RSX11-D and later IAS, so I had little contact with Unix until about 1980 on a VAX11/750 at the UC-Davis Dept. of Applied Science running BSD 4.1(?). -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: ober...@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 20 Oct 2010 at 10:32, Svein Skogen (Listmail account) wrote: > On 20.10.2010 09:47, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline > >> escribi?: > >>> PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > >>> 780 days :-) > >> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > > I guess I'm just a kid, then, since I wasn't exposed to computers until > 6 years later (my excuse was being born in 1975). CP/M-80 and MP/M-80 > with intel asm, was where I started my hairpulling... Anybody else got > nightmares about 8 inch floppies? ;) Well, I used to design 8-inch floppy drives. Fortunately, the nightmares have subsided and I'm just left with this twitch ... this twitch ... this twitch ... -- Jerry Dunham Moderater, Texas Great Dane Rescue jdun...@texas.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On October 20, 2010 03:47:38 am per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Matthias Apitz wrote: > > El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline escribi?: > > > PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX > > > 780 days :-) > > > > I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" Machine code on an English Electric DEUCE, here, in 1965. Everything since has seemed easy. See my web post if you want more details. -- http://www.jeays.ca ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 10/20/10 09:32, Svein Skogen (Listmail account) wrote: On 20.10.2010 09:47, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Matthias Apitz wrote: El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline escribi?: PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX 780 days :-) I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. I guess I'm just a kid, then, since I wasn't exposed to computers until 6 years later (my excuse was being born in 1975). CP/M-80 and MP/M-80 with intel asm, was where I started my hairpulling... Anybody else got nightmares about 8 inch floppies? ;) //Svein Hard or soft sectored? -- "Although the wombat is real and the dragon is not, few know what a wombat looks like, but everyone knows what a dragon looks like." -- Avram Davidson, _Adventures in Unhistory_ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greybeards (Re: Netbooks & BSD)
On 20.10.2010 09:47, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Matthias Apitz wrote: >> El d?a Tuesday, October 19, 2010 a las 07:29:46PM -0700, Gary Kline escribi?: >>> PS: I really _was_ current on hardware stuff. Back in the VAX >>> 780 days :-) >> I booted my first UNIX V7 tape on a PDP-11 around 1982, I think. > > Gotcha beat :) UNIX V6, PDP-11/34, RK05 disk cartridge, 1975. > The whole runtime fit on one RK05. The sources took a second one. I guess I'm just a kid, then, since I wasn't exposed to computers until 6 years later (my excuse was being born in 1975). CP/M-80 and MP/M-80 with intel asm, was where I started my hairpulling... Anybody else got nightmares about 8 inch floppies? ;) //Svein -- +---+--- /"\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE +---+--- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
