Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
2010/11/24 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:42 PM, David DEMELIER demelier.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your answers, I guess my battery is getting on its end of life.. After running 30 minutes on battery, the percent is still 100% while the remaining time is slowly decreasing.. Aaaah buying a new battery costs around $134 ! I think I could live a few months before buying a new one but it sucks :-/ One thing I forgot to mention is that this might be a good case for an SSD drive. I installed one in my old laptop w/ old worn battery and system performance and battery life increased significantly all for less than your new battery price. There's a lot of advantages to SSD's in a laptop. -- Adam Vande More Yes, I would like to have SSD in my laptop but it's really expensive for the moment. But I completely agree, there is so much advantages : unbreakable, fast, ... -- Demelier David ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, David DEMELIER wrote: Thanks for all your answers, I guess my battery is getting on its end of life.. After running 30 minutes on battery, the percent is still 100% while the remaining time is slowly decreasing.. Aaaah buying a new battery costs around $134 ! Despite what its internal chip [mis-]reports, how long will it actually run on this battery with a moderate or no load? Watching actual battery voltage, say once a minute as it runs down, or while charging, will give you a much better idea of real condition. I tend to run something like: % cat ~/bin/t23loop #!/bin/sh [ $1 ] sleep=$1 || sleep=60 while true; do t23stat | tee -a ~/t23loop.out sleep $sleep done % cat ~/bin/t23stat #!/bin/sh echo -n `date` sysctl dev.cpu.0.freq dev.cpu.0.cx_usage sysctl dev.acpi_ibm | egrep 'fan_|thermal' sysctl hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature acpiconf -i0 | egrep 'State|Remain|Present|Volt' .. but just logging date and the acpiconf would be enough for this. Have you tried one round of the battery meter conditioning I mentioned, to see if it shows any improvement? Worked for me, anyway shrug I think I could live a few months before buying a new one but it sucks :-/ Clues to save power may be helpful but don't really address this issue; still, one of the best is http://wiki.freebsd.org/TuningPowerConsumption cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 23:17:37 -0600 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com wrote: IIRC, there where some improvement to HEAD while ago that increased FreeBSD power usage efficiecy a non-negligible amount. Perhaps those improvements where MFC'd already, Google around either way as there are settings to tune which will decrease power consumption. In order to get those savings you need to set hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest to C2 or C3. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
Hello, Thanks for all your answers, I guess my battery is getting on its end of life.. After running 30 minutes on battery, the percent is still 100% while the remaining time is slowly decreasing.. Aaaah buying a new battery costs around $134 ! I think I could live a few months before buying a new one but it sucks :-/ Cheers, -- Demelier David ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:42 PM, David DEMELIER demelier.da...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks for all your answers, I guess my battery is getting on its end of life.. After running 30 minutes on battery, the percent is still 100% while the remaining time is slowly decreasing.. Aaaah buying a new battery costs around $134 ! I think I could live a few months before buying a new one but it sucks :-/ One thing I forgot to mention is that this might be a good case for an SSD drive. I installed one in my old laptop w/ old worn battery and system performance and battery life increased significantly all for less than your new battery price. There's a lot of advantages to SSD's in a laptop. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
I just looked into a batt for my daughters dell, her li-on lasted 14 months, now on full charge it only lasts 40 mins... Terrible. If you can get 2 years out of a batt ur lucky. I read some tech docs on li-on cells; if you can store at 50% charge in the fridge and when in use don't let it run down 100%. - Original Message - From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org To: FreeBSD Questions freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Tue Nov 23 15:34:16 2010 Subject: How long laptop battery should live ? Hello I just realized that my HP laptop lost the half battery capacity. Take a look : mark...@melon ~ $ acpiconf -i 0 Design capacity:4400 mAh Last full capacity: 2132 mAh Technology: secondary (rechargeable) Design voltage: 14400 mV Capacity (warn):200 mAh Capacity (low): 100 mAh Low/warn granularity: 100 mAh Warn/full granularity: 100 mAh Model number: Primary Serial number: 02109 2009/08/11 Type: LIon OEM info: Hewlett-Packard State: charging Remaining capacity: 0% Remaining time: unknown Present rate: 3061 mA Voltage:15751 mV Design capacity:4400 mAh Last full capacity: 2132 mAh I'm guessing if this should be, the laptop has only about 8 months and I don't use it much on battery, only around one day per week and not until the battery is empty. If I remember correctly my old laptop didn't lost so much of capacity in a few months like that. My question is : how long a battery should live ? is anything could bring down the battery sooner ? I hope the next battery wont be too much expensive and will live more.. Cheers, -- Demelier David ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org font size=1 div style='border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in' /div This email is intended to be reviewed by only the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, disclosure or copying of this email and its attachments, if any, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. /font ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
Hi, I just looked into a batt for my daughters dell, her li-on lasted 14 months, now on full charge it only lasts 40 mins... Terrible. If you can get 2 years out of a batt ur lucky. I read some tech docs on li-on cells; if you can store at 50% charge in the fridge and when in use don't let it run down 100%. in my opinion, there's just one rule: Don't trust anybody. There are so many people who claim do be professionals, who say totally contrary things. On the one hand, there are many 'facts' which are falsely applied to LiIon-batteries which don't apply. On the other hand, there are many stories people remember from years long ago or from cheap notebooks without an 'intelligent' battery. Just to add another story from me: I have two batteries in my notebook, the one is always drowned to zero before the other one is being used (no, there are no possibilities to control that in my case). The one being drowned first, though not that often used that hard (appr once a week) was nearly dead after 1 1/2 years (6/23Wh), while the other one still has 23/27Wh. Regards, Julian signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Julian Fagir g...@physik.tu-berlin.dewrote: Hi, I just looked into a batt for my daughters dell, her li-on lasted 14 months, now on full charge it only lasts 40 mins... Terrible. If you can get 2 years out of a batt ur lucky. I read some tech docs on li-on cells; if you can store at 50% charge in the fridge and when in use don't let it run down 100%. in my opinion, there's just one rule: Don't trust anybody. There are so many people who claim do be professionals, who say totally contrary things. On the one hand, there are many 'facts' which are falsely applied to LiIon-batteries which don't apply. On the other hand, there are many stories people remember from years long ago or from cheap notebooks without an 'intelligent' battery. Just to add another story from me: I have two batteries in my notebook, the one is always drowned to zero before the other one is being used (no, there are no possibilities to control that in my case). The one being drowned first, though not that often used that hard (appr once a week) was nearly dead after 1 1/2 years (6/23Wh), while the other one still has 23/27Wh. Regards, Julian Li-Ion batteries tend to loose there imprint (the ability to hold a charge) over time, the more the battery is discharged to 0%, the faster it will loose that imprint. There really isn't squat you can do about it except buy a new battery (and yes, make sure it is new, I bought a refurbed HP and the *full* charge for it when I got it was 20% of it's original capacity (maybe 15-20 minutes), good enough in a pinch but that 20% lasted maybe a month) As Julian stated ... there are too many people who claim to be professionals (I'm not one of them), this are just what I have experienced and based on what I have read. One resource I did find was http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries... they seemed to at least present all the information available in a logical order and it all made sense to me. hth, C- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
Ditto, pretty much mirrors what I read. I forget the site, perhaps Panasonic? It was a cell manufacturer and published all sorts of data on different chemistry cells. Good info for my EV project too! And yes, many people sell batteries as new who's cells are two years old! Basically junk before you even get it. - Original Message - From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org To: Julian Fagir g...@physik.tu-berlin.de Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Tue Nov 23 16:26:42 2010 Subject: Re: How long laptop battery should live ? On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Julian Fagir g...@physik.tu-berlin.dewrote: Hi, I just looked into a batt for my daughters dell, her li-on lasted 14 months, now on full charge it only lasts 40 mins... Terrible. If you can get 2 years out of a batt ur lucky. I read some tech docs on li-on cells; if you can store at 50% charge in the fridge and when in use don't let it run down 100%. in my opinion, there's just one rule: Don't trust anybody. There are so many people who claim do be professionals, who say totally contrary things. On the one hand, there are many 'facts' which are falsely applied to LiIon-batteries which don't apply. On the other hand, there are many stories people remember from years long ago or from cheap notebooks without an 'intelligent' battery. Just to add another story from me: I have two batteries in my notebook, the one is always drowned to zero before the other one is being used (no, there are no possibilities to control that in my case). The one being drowned first, though not that often used that hard (appr once a week) was nearly dead after 1 1/2 years (6/23Wh), while the other one still has 23/27Wh. Regards, Julian Li-Ion batteries tend to loose there imprint (the ability to hold a charge) over time, the more the battery is discharged to 0%, the faster it will loose that imprint. There really isn't squat you can do about it except buy a new battery (and yes, make sure it is new, I bought a refurbed HP and the *full* charge for it when I got it was 20% of it's original capacity (maybe 15-20 minutes), good enough in a pinch but that 20% lasted maybe a month) As Julian stated ... there are too many people who claim to be professionals (I'm not one of them), this are just what I have experienced and based on what I have read. One resource I did find was http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries... they seemed to at least present all the information available in a logical order and it all made sense to me. hth, C- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org font size=1 div style='border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in' /div This email is intended to be reviewed by only the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, disclosure or copying of this email and its attachments, if any, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. /font ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Gary Gatten ggat...@waddell.com wrote: Ditto, pretty much mirrors what I read. I forget the site, perhaps Panasonic? It was a cell manufacturer and published all sorts of data on different chemistry cells. Good info for my EV project too! And yes, many people sell batteries as new who's cells are two years old! Basically junk before you even get it. Top posting is evil, don't do it! Don't give into the evil :D Anyway ... it's like buying three-year old disposable batteries at the corner store ... dead in the package ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 338, Issue 3, Message: 12 On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:34:16 +0100 David DEMELIER demelier.da...@gmail.com wrote: I just realized that my HP laptop lost the half battery capacity. Take a look : mark...@melon ~ $ acpiconf -i 0 Design capacity: 4400 mAh Last full capacity: 2132 mAh Technology: secondary (rechargeable) Design voltage: 14400 mV Capacity (warn): 200 mAh Capacity (low): 100 mAh Low/warn granularity:100 mAh Warn/full granularity: 100 mAh Model number:Primary Serial number: 02109 2009/08/11 Type:LIon OEM info:Hewlett-Packard State: charging Remaining capacity: 0% Remaining time: unknown Present rate:3061 mA Voltage: 15751 mV 'Remaining capacity: 0%' should indicate that you ran acpiconf -i0 when the battery was fully discharged, and you'd just started charging it? Was that the case? Seems a bit strange that the battery would already be at 15.75V at start of charge, though the 3A charge rate sounds fair. Does it come up to showing 100% charged later? Design capacity: 4400 mAh Last full capacity: 2132 mAh I'm guessing if this should be, the laptop has only about 8 months and I don't use it much on battery, only around one day per week and not until the battery is empty. If I remember correctly my old laptop didn't lost so much of capacity in a few months like that. Yes 8 (or 15) months is way too soon to lose half its capacity, even if you'd been running it on battery for a lot of the time. This old Compaq laptop's battery (Li-ion, 14.4V) is at least 7 years old, and still runs for about 1.5 hours, ie 40-50% capacity, and in a subtropical climate. My question is : how long a battery should live ? is anything could bring down the battery sooner ? It could just be a faulty one, but you'd be very lucky to get a battery replaced under warranty. It says it's an HP battery, manufactured only 15 months ago, so it's unlikely to be a 'shelf life' problem. I hope the next battery wont be too much expensive and will live more.. It may be that the little chip inside the battery that counts charge in and out has lost track of itself. This tends to happen more commonly on Li-ion batteries that are rarely or never fully discharged, and at least some manufacturers including IBM recommend 'conditioning' batteries from time to time to correct this. For example, this year I bought two second-hand IBM Thinkpad T23s whose batteries both responded very well to about three full discharge / full charge cycles; one now shows about 2/3 of original capacity, up from about 1/3, and both batteries were likely already several years old. To get to full discharge you need to run it right down, beyond where the OS would normally shutdown or suspend at somewhere between 5% and 2% of capacity. What I do from that point is start it up in the BIOS Setup, turn off anything that would have it shutdown or suspend on low battery, and wait till it turns off, completely exhausted. From the BIOS Setup screen there's no danger that this could mess up a filesystem. Then plug it in and let it fully charge, preferably without running it. Once fully charged, turn it on and check its 'Last full capacity' again. It may take three or more such full cycles until you see no improvement. While you're at it, you could actually time how long it runs till fully discharged; this also may improve somewhat, but what we're correcting here it the battery's own BELIEF in its capacity and state of charge. HTH, Ian (please cc me on any reply, I take this list as a digest) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How long laptop battery should live ?
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Ian Smith smi...@nimnet.asn.au wrote: I'm guessing if this should be, the laptop has only about 8 months and I don't use it much on battery, only around one day per week and not until the battery is empty. If I remember correctly my old laptop didn't lost so much of capacity in a few months like that. Yes 8 (or 15) months is way too soon to lose half its capacity, even if you'd been running it on battery for a lot of the time. This old Compaq laptop's battery (Li-ion, 14.4V) is at least 7 years old, and still runs for about 1.5 hours, ie 40-50% capacity, and in a subtropical climate. As already mentioned in a previous link you can't determine a battery's expected viability by age alone. The amount and way you've charged/discharged the battery will factor into it's performance along with other things. You should also consult the owners manual as battery characteristics will vary some. IIRC, there where some improvement to HEAD while ago that increased FreeBSD power usage efficiecy a non-negligible amount. Perhaps those improvements where MFC'd already, Google around either way as there are settings to tune which will decrease power consumption. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
