Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Matthew Seaman]

On 05/03/2012 12:10, Jerry wrote:
> Matthew, is this the URL for iXsystems 
> that you are referring to?

Yep.  That's the company.

> I was examining their company page:
>  and they seem quite
> impressive. Also, the support page URL for PC-BSD:
>  is now apparently working.

Ah -- no.  The page I was referring to is:

http://www.ixsystems.com/ix/support/software/pc-bsd-support

which is still 404.  It's linked to from here:

http://www.pcbsd.org/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=category&category_id=85&Itemid=62

(bottom of that page)

and also also from the PC-PSD pulldown in the menubar at the top of the
front page of the site.  I did report this through their website, but
it's early yet in California, so they won't have had a chance to fix it yet.

> Obviously, the above is based on the belief that I am referring to the
> correct entity to begin with.

Right company, wrong web page.

Cheers,

Matthew

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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Jerry]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:52:15 +
Matthew Seaman articulated:

> On 04/03/2012 22:56, Da Rock wrote:
> >> That's also an obligation to test it.
> >> PC-BSD is a product, by a private company. The burden of proof is
> >> on them.
> 
> > PC-BSD is an organisation or group; I wouldn't go as far as calling
> > them a private company.
> 
> No, the company behind PC-BSD is called iXsystems.  They do an awful
> lot in the FreeBSD sphere, and PC-BSD is one of their products.  While
> PC-BSD is a community driven project, iXsystems employs the project
> founder and lead developer specifically to work on PC-BSD.  Click on
> the 'Professional PC-BSD Support' link of the PC-BSD menu on the
> pcbsd.org site, and you will see who it is that provides the paid-for
> support.
> 
> Hmmm... actually they might want to look at that, as it returns a 404
> page.

Matthew, is this the URL for iXsystems 
that you are referring to?

I was examining their company page:
 and they seem quite
impressive. Also, the support page URL for PC-BSD:
 is now apparently working.

Obviously, the above is based on the belief that I am referring to the
correct entity to begin with.

-- 
Jerry ♔

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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Da Rock]

On 03/05/12 19:52, Matthew Seaman wrote:

On 04/03/2012 22:56, Da Rock wrote:

That's also an obligation to test it.
PC-BSD is a product, by a private company. The burden of proof is on
them.

PC-BSD is an organisation or group; I wouldn't go as far as calling them
a private company.

No, the company behind PC-BSD is called iXsystems.  They do an awful lot
in the FreeBSD sphere, and PC-BSD is one of their products.  While
PC-BSD is a community driven project, iXsystems employs the project
founder and lead developer specifically to work on PC-BSD.  Click on the
'Professional PC-BSD Support' link of the PC-BSD menu on the pcbsd.org
site, and you will see who it is that provides the paid-for support.
Yes, but that is sponsorship. That doesn't make it a company. They don't 
own it.


Unlike Oracle with MySQL, Java, and VBox... Or Citrix and Xen...
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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Jerry]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:52:15 +
Matthew Seaman articulated:

> No, the company behind PC-BSD is called iXsystems.  They do an awful
> lot in the FreeBSD sphere, and PC-BSD is one of their products.  While
> PC-BSD is a community driven project, iXsystems employs the project
> founder and lead developer specifically to work on PC-BSD.  Click on
> the 'Professional PC-BSD Support' link of the PC-BSD menu on the
> pcbsd.org site, and you will see who it is that provides the paid-for
> support.
> 
> Hmmm... actually they might want to look at that, as it returns a 404
> page.

Nothing instills confidence in a potential client like a broken
"Support" page with the possible exception of calling a telephone
number and finding it has been disconnected.

-- 
Jerry ♔

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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Matthew Seaman]

On 04/03/2012 22:56, Da Rock wrote:
>> That's also an obligation to test it.
>> PC-BSD is a product, by a private company. The burden of proof is on
>> them.

> PC-BSD is an organisation or group; I wouldn't go as far as calling them
> a private company.

No, the company behind PC-BSD is called iXsystems.  They do an awful lot
in the FreeBSD sphere, and PC-BSD is one of their products.  While
PC-BSD is a community driven project, iXsystems employs the project
founder and lead developer specifically to work on PC-BSD.  Click on the
'Professional PC-BSD Support' link of the PC-BSD menu on the pcbsd.org
site, and you will see who it is that provides the paid-for support.

Hmmm... actually they might want to look at that, as it returns a 404 page.

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
  Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk   Kent, CT11 9PW



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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Edward M.]

On 03/04/2012 12:27 AM, jb wrote:

But ..., the charm disappeared when I (intentionally ?) pulled ethernet plug
and started update manager ...
   Classic example of fallacious reasoning. update manager needs the 
internet to access the updates

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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Da Rock]

On 03/05/12 07:23, jb wrote:

Chuck Swiger  mac.com>  writes:


...
There are lots of people who are looking for turnkey / "no docs needed"
systems, with "give me simplified choices" but "handle obvious errors with a
nice dialog window or fix-it 'wizard'", instead of requiring CLI sysadmin
experience, reading error logs, and running diagnostic commands to fix things.
...

Well, the PC-BSD team set these goals for themselves:

"PC-BSD has as its goals to be an easy-to-install-and-use desktop operating
system, based on FreeBSD. To accomplish this, it provides a graphical
installation to enable even UNIX novices to easily install and get it running."

That's also an obligation to test it.
PC-BSD is a product, by a private company. The burden of proof is on them.
PC-BSD is an organisation or group; I wouldn't go as far as calling them 
a private company.



...
I suspect that the folks who define usability by such criteria are not using
FreeBSD (or PC-BSD) at all, or they quickly evaluate it and then move on at
the first major showstopper they come across.
...

There were many attractive features implemented.
I personally am irritated when I get a software product that breaks on a basic
usability test. The argument that something is offered to me for free and so
I can not expect it to function here and there does not fly with me. That's
a road to nowhere, considering that they do offer it freely.

I will test their next public release in more detail.
I would love to report back words of praise.
jb





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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[jb]

Chuck Swiger  mac.com> writes:

> ... 
> There are lots of people who are looking for turnkey / "no docs needed" 
> systems, with "give me simplified choices" but "handle obvious errors with a 
> nice dialog window or fix-it 'wizard'", instead of requiring CLI sysadmin 
> experience, reading error logs, and running diagnostic commands to fix things.
> ...

Well, the PC-BSD team set these goals for themselves:

"PC-BSD has as its goals to be an easy-to-install-and-use desktop operating
system, based on FreeBSD. To accomplish this, it provides a graphical
installation to enable even UNIX novices to easily install and get it running."

That's also an obligation to test it.
PC-BSD is a product, by a private company. The burden of proof is on them.

> ... 
> I suspect that the folks who define usability by such criteria are not using 
> FreeBSD (or PC-BSD) at all, or they quickly evaluate it and then move on at 
> the first major showstopper they come across.
> ...

There were many attractive features implemented.
I personally am irritated when I get a software product that breaks on a basic
usability test. The argument that something is offered to me for free and so
I can not expect it to function here and there does not fly with me. That's
a road to nowhere, considering that they do offer it freely.

I will test their next public release in more detail.
I would love to report back words of praise.
jb
   




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Re: PC-BSD on top of FreeBSD - does it matter ?

[Chuck Swiger]

On 3/4/2012 3:27 AM, jb wrote:

But ..., the charm disappeared when I (intentionally ?) pulled ethernet plug
and started update manager ... The system went into some twilight zone, making
the desktop unresponsive, from which I could not recover, even by trying to
kill offending processes I had no clue about as a first time user. Unusable.


Well, if all you wanted to do was browse the web, and you disable your network 
connection, then yeah, that's unusable for the purpose.  If you couldn't do 
other things local to the system aside from this update manager, that's a 
different issue.


[ ... ]

A few days ago I read this, from a good, minimum-functional-tests-must-pass,
some wit but no-nonsense reviewer:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/pc-bsd-9.html
Well, "Radioactive", "The shortest experience ever!".

Does it matter to FreeBSD ?


That's a very good question.

There are lots of people who are looking for turnkey / "no docs needed" 
systems, with "give me simplified choices" but "handle obvious errors with a 
nice dialog window or fix-it 'wizard'", instead of requiring CLI sysadmin 
experience, reading error logs, and running diagnostic commands to fix things.


The usability testing done by you and this dedoimedo reviewer would seem to be 
best addressed by a wireless-oriented device (maybe with a GNU/Linuxish 
userland providing bash and screen) such as an Android fondleslab.


I suspect that the folks who define usability by such criteria are not using 
FreeBSD (or PC-BSD) at all, or they quickly evaluate it and then move on at 
the first major showstopper they come across.


Regards,
--
-Chuck
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