Re: Software installasion (Was: Re: Wine without X)
Mel Flynn wrote: On Saturday 28 March 2009 13:06:44 Robert Huff wrote: Mel Flynn writes: Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason oranother, place to download application source to? Most systems I use or inherited use a variation of ~/src ~/cvs or ~/svn, where src are the tarballs + their extracted source and cvs/svn checkouts and/or exports. I have never done this, but if I were running a private ports tree I would be tempted to root it (if not on a separate partition) at /usr/priv_ports or something similar and have the structure minic /usr/ports whereever possible. The name would then be semi-intuitive, and a simple change of a few environment variables (perhaps in the login file of an account dedicated to working on those ports) would be all it took to change the framework. A private portstree (as in: uses the ports framework for compiling and installing software, including registering the port in /var/db/pkg) is best kept in /usr/ports/local. One needs to set VALID_CATEGORIES=local in /etc/make.conf and optionally add SUBDIR+=local in /usr/ports/Makefile.local if one cares about the ports ending up in the INDEX and make search. Ideally software not registering itself inside /var/db/pkg (as in software compiled by hand) should NOT be installed in $LOCALBASE (/usr/local by default) as there is no guarantee through the ports CONFLICTS mechanism, that a port overwrites files installed by your hand-compiled software. Many thanks to all who have helped on this one. I managed to get wine installed without X and it works :) However my application doesn't :( Most of the errors are concerned with MS Visual C++ libraries, which I have unconfirmed indications might be solved with 'winetricks' http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks. However, I think using winetricks means I need X anyway. So, I will leave it for now and try again after a bit more research. Thanks for all the ideas about where to download/install custom apps - the one that appeals most at this stage is a jail, partly because I have never played with them, and I think I should progress my learning in that direction. However I find the other answers very useful insights too. Given that winetricks calls itself a 'quick and dirty script', along with the fact that the current wine port doesn't work, I think I see another manual installation coming on. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Software installasion (Was: Re: Wine without X)
--On March 29, 2009 11:03:03 AM -0500 Barnaby Scott b...@waywood.co.uk wrote: Many thanks to all who have helped on this one. I managed to get wine installed without X and it works :) However my application doesn't :( Most of the errors are concerned with MS Visual C++ libraries, which I have unconfirmed indications might be solved with 'winetricks' http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks. However, I think using winetricks means I need X anyway. So, I will leave it for now and try again after a bit more research. Sounds like missing dlls. You *may* be able to just copy the missing dlls into the wine lib directory and get the application to work. I would examine the error messages closely to see what dlls it trying to find and can't. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Software installasion (Was: Re: Wine without X)
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Barnaby Scott wrote: Thanks for all the ideas about where to download/install custom apps - the one that appeals most at this stage is a jail, partly because I have never played with them, and I think I should progress my learning in that direction. However I find the other answers very useful insights too. Given that winetricks calls itself a 'quick and dirty script', along with the fact that the current wine port doesn't work, Today's updated wine-1.1.18,1 port works now. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
On Friday 27 March 2009 15:42:27 Barnaby Scott wrote: Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason or another, place to download application source to? Most systems I use or inherited use a variation of ~/src ~/cvs or ~/svn, where src are the tarballs + their extracted source and cvs/svn checkouts and/or exports. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
Mel Flynn writes: Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason oranother, place to download application source to? Most systems I use or inherited use a variation of ~/src ~/cvs or ~/svn, where src are the tarballs + their extracted source and cvs/svn checkouts and/or exports. I have never done this, but if I were running a private ports tree I would be tempted to root it (if not on a separate partition) at /usr/priv_ports or something similar and have the structure minic /usr/ports whereever possible. The name would then be semi-intuitive, and a simple change of a few environment variables (perhaps in the login file of an account dedicated to working on those ports) would be all it took to change the framework. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Software installasion (Was: Re: Wine without X)
On Saturday 28 March 2009 13:06:44 Robert Huff wrote: Mel Flynn writes: Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason oranother, place to download application source to? Most systems I use or inherited use a variation of ~/src ~/cvs or ~/svn, where src are the tarballs + their extracted source and cvs/svn checkouts and/or exports. I have never done this, but if I were running a private ports tree I would be tempted to root it (if not on a separate partition) at /usr/priv_ports or something similar and have the structure minic /usr/ports whereever possible. The name would then be semi-intuitive, and a simple change of a few environment variables (perhaps in the login file of an account dedicated to working on those ports) would be all it took to change the framework. A private portstree (as in: uses the ports framework for compiling and installing software, including registering the port in /var/db/pkg) is best kept in /usr/ports/local. One needs to set VALID_CATEGORIES=local in /etc/make.conf and optionally add SUBDIR+=local in /usr/ports/Makefile.local if one cares about the ports ending up in the INDEX and make search. Ideally software not registering itself inside /var/db/pkg (as in software compiled by hand) should NOT be installed in $LOCALBASE (/usr/local by default) as there is no guarantee through the ports CONFLICTS mechanism, that a port overwrites files installed by your hand-compiled software. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
2009/3/28 Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com: Mel Flynn writes: Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason oranother, place to download application source to? Most systems I use or inherited use a variation of ~/src ~/cvs or ~/svn, where src are the tarballs + their extracted source and cvs/svn checkouts and/or exports. I have never done this, but if I were running a private ports tree I would be tempted to root it (if not on a separate partition) at /usr/priv_ports or something similar and have the structure minic /usr/ports whereever possible. The name would then be semi-intuitive, and a simple change of a few environment variables (perhaps in the login file of an account dedicated to working on those ports) would be all it took to change the framework. Robert Huff I'm always inclined to use --PREFIX=/sw/local/ when compiling; I'm used to Fink on my Mac, so /sw is a nice directory for that. Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
Paul Schmehl wrote: So, you *could* do this: su - to root Download the wine tarball and untar it Go in to the wine directory and type the following, in order: ./configure --without-x make depends make make install That will install wine on your system without X. Figuring out how to get your rendering binary to run is an exercise for you. :-) I left wine without x installed on my system. If you have questions, I *may* be able to help. Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason or another, place to download application source to? Presumably you don't want it mixed up in the ports distfiles, or in the system's source directory. I know this sounds very silly, and the answer might be 'wherever you like', but I do like to learn the conventions which usually have good reasons behind them. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
On Fri, 27 Mar 2009, Barnaby Scott wrote: Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason or another, place to download application source to? Presumably you don't want it mixed Not dumb at all. There are several conventions. The one I use is to have a user named build. This provides a natural home for these packages (the home directory of that account) as well as nice management for setting uname, potential wheel association etc. for an account that is used for building system libs by executing su - build to get that type of admin process underway. A. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
--On Friday, March 27, 2009 09:42:27 -0500 Barnaby Scott b...@waywood.co.uk wrote: Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible for one reason or another, place to download application source to? Presumably you don't want it mixed up in the ports distfiles, or in the system's source directory. I know this sounds very silly, and the answer might be 'wherever you like', but I do like to learn the conventions which usually have good reasons behind them. I don't know that there's a convention for it, but it makes good sense to separate any source installs from the base system and ports system. I use a folder named Downloads, put the tar files in there and then untar them. That creates a separate directory for each untarred source code and leaves the tarballs in the base directory. The more critical question is where should you install the software. By default wine installs everything in /usr/local/bin/, /usr/local/lib/wine, /usr/local/include/wine and /usr/local/share/wine, which agrees with the default locations for files of those types on FreeBSD. Some people prefer to install compiled-from-source software in other locations. It's really up to you. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** Check the headers before clicking on Reply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
In response to Barnaby Scott b...@waywood.co.uk: I'm sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place, but I have tried elsewhere and go no response. I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Why would you expect this to be possible? The GUI is an integral part of MS Windows ... I can't imagine how wine would work at all without X installed -- which is probably why you're not getting any answers. Perhaps you should back up and consider what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't need a GUI, then what programs do you expect to run under wine, and is there some better way to get them? -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
Bill Moran writes: I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Why would you expect this to be possible? The GUI is an integral part of MS Windows ... I can't imagine how wine would work at all without X installed -- which is probably why you're not getting any answers. I'm not that familiar with Wine - does it support use of the Windows command prompt? I can conceive of a program which requires Windows libraries or the kernel, but does not use the gui. (Though I agree that at that point finding a non-Windows solution becomes increasingly attractive.) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
2009/3/26 Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com: Bill Moran writes: I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Why would you expect this to be possible? The GUI is an integral part of MS Windows ... I can't imagine how wine would work at all without X installed -- which is probably why you're not getting any answers. I'm not that familiar with Wine - does it support use of the Windows command prompt? I can conceive of a program which requires Windows libraries or the kernel, but does not use the gui. (Though I agree that at that point finding a non-Windows solution becomes increasingly attractive.) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org If you're most worried about 'cluttering' up your base system, a jail (8) could be the answer for you. X chomps a little hard drive space for sure, but if it's in a jail, there're no package crossovers. Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
no response. I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Obviously trying to do what you want to do with wine not having X? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
Bill Moran wrote: In response to Barnaby Scott b...@waywood.co.uk: I'm sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place, but I have tried elsewhere and go no response. I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Why would you expect this to be possible? The GUI is an integral part of MS Windows ... I can't imagine how wine would work at all without X installed -- which is probably why you're not getting any answers. Perhaps you should back up and consider what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't need a GUI, then what programs do you expect to run under wine, and is there some better way to get them? Thanks for your reply I know this is possible because I have seen discussion of it in Linux and wine forums. I'm just too inexperienced to know which bits of the instructions are OS-specific, and what other nightmares I might face. I might be able to figure it all out by weeks of trial and error, but that seems crazy if someone has been there before me! As for why I want it to run, that is because the application I want to run is a bolt-on to a specific bit of rendering software that we use, and there really is no viable non-Windows replacement in our situation - believe me, if there was, I'd be using it. (In case you care, we are talking about Vray for Rhino, which we use because we use Rhino, and because we use Rhino we chose RhinoCAM, and because we chose RhinoCAM I spent weeks writing software to make it talk to our CNC equipment, whose controller is inextricably Windows-based... you get the picture!) In answer to the other replies (thanks to you guys too): Yes, wine is fine with just the command prompt. It is somewhat confusing in that it offers a thing called wineconsole, but ironically that *does* appear to require X. Just using wine without X is fine, so long as the app does not attempt to open any sort of window, system tray etc. As for the 'cluttering' - I'm not so worried about disk space, that's cheap these days. It's more a question of updating ports. When I once made the mistake of installing X and various other things I turned out not to need, the process of updating everything became a nightmare - stuff breaking because I hadn't read the updating info for a bunch of fonts or something stupid like that. Multiply that by 3 servers, and, well, no thanks! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
--On Thursday, March 26, 2009 09:47:27 -0500 Barnaby Scott b...@waywood.co.uk wrote: I'm sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place, but I have tried elsewhere and go no response. I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Obviously trying to do this from ports drags in loads of X-related stuff. There doesn't seem to be a WITHOUT_X11 knob available for the wine port (presuambly because hardly anyone would want it). I guess that leaves me installing it the 'old-fashioned' way, but unfortunately my inexperience leaves me floundering here! Because FreeBSD has such a wonderful ports system, all documentation I can find for installing from source refers to ports, and I have not found a single one showing a layman how to install from source manually, and what problems I have to look out for. As you can probably tell, I lack a lot experience, so keep it fairly monosyllabic please! (In case you wonder what on earth I want this for, it is to run a 'render slave' which is Windows only, and simply runs in the background - it would not even count as a 'console application'. I have three very underused FreeBSD servers and they could do with some rendering work to keep them from getting bored, but I don't want X cluttering them up.) Any help gratefully received Number 1, you should always google first. There's a wealth of posts on the web about running wine without X. Note that, at present, the wine port will not work. (There is an IGNORE line in the Makefile that explains why.) Whether wine will work at all or work but not do what you want, I can't say. Here's a post where someone compiled wine without X: http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-users/2001-October/004709.html The wine configure file has an option --with-x, and it's been buildable without X since 2003, so you could try building from source. ./configure --without-x builds fine on my machine, and make depends, make and make install work fine as well. Whether it will do what you want it to do, only you can say. So, you *could* do this: su - to root Download the wine tarball and untar it Go in to the wine directory and type the following, in order: ./configure --without-x make depends make make install That will install wine on your system without X. Figuring out how to get your rendering binary to run is an exercise for you. :-) I left wine without x installed on my system. If you have questions, I *may* be able to help. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** Check the headers before clicking on Reply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
part of MS Windows ... I can't imagine how wine would work at all without X installed -- which is probably why you're not getting any answers. I'm not that familiar with Wine - does it support use of the Windows command prompt? I can conceive of a program which requires Windows libraries or the kernel, but does not use the gui. that's possible. anyway - if you can't build wine without X, built it with X, it will only install X libraries nothing else and it will work when command line utils will be used. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
Jeff Laine wrote: On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 05:12:17PM +, Barnaby Scott wrote: Bill Moran wrote: In response to Barnaby Scott b...@waywood.co.uk: I'm sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place, but I have tried elsewhere and go no response. I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Why would you expect this to be possible? The GUI is an integral part of MS Windows ... I can't imagine how wine would work at all without X installed -- which is probably why you're not getting any answers. Perhaps you should back up and consider what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't need a GUI, then what programs do you expect to run under wine, and is there some better way to get them? Thanks for your reply I know this is possible because I have seen discussion of it in Linux and wine forums. I'm just too inexperienced to know which bits of the instructions are OS-specific, and what other nightmares I might face. I might be able to figure it all out by weeks of trial and error, but that seems crazy if someone has been there before me! As for why I want it to run, that is because the application I want to run is a bolt-on to a specific bit of rendering software that we use, and there really is no viable non-Windows replacement in our situation - believe me, if there was, I'd be using it. (In case you care, we are talking about Vray for Rhino, which we use because we use Rhino, and because we use Rhino we chose RhinoCAM, and because we chose RhinoCAM I spent weeks writing software to make it talk to our CNC equipment, whose controller is inextricably Windows-based... you get the picture!) In answer to the other replies (thanks to you guys too): Yes, wine is fine with just the command prompt. It is somewhat confusing in that it offers a thing called wineconsole, but ironically that *does* appear to require X. Just using wine without X is fine, so long as the app does not attempt to open any sort of window, system tray etc. As for the 'cluttering' - I'm not so worried about disk space, that's cheap these days. It's more a question of updating ports. When I once made the mistake of installing X and various other things I turned out not to need, the process of updating everything became a nightmare - stuff breaking because I hadn't read the updating info for a bunch of fonts or something stupid like that. Multiply that by 3 servers, and, well, no thanks! wineconsole app seems working fine in terminal with no X at all. I ran it like this: ./wineconsole --backend=curses cmd OK thanks, I stand corrected (just shows how unreliable GOOGLING sometimes is!) If/when I can get this working I will check out wineconsole, though as I said, the app I want to run has no visible output at all, console or otherwise - it just talks to the main renderer over the network, but (dammit) is a Windows binary. Barnaby ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Wine without X
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 05:12:17PM +, Barnaby Scott wrote: Bill Moran wrote: In response to Barnaby Scott b...@waywood.co.uk: I'm sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place, but I have tried elsewhere and go no response. I want to install wine, but without X on the system. Why would you expect this to be possible? The GUI is an integral part of MS Windows ... I can't imagine how wine would work at all without X installed -- which is probably why you're not getting any answers. Perhaps you should back up and consider what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't need a GUI, then what programs do you expect to run under wine, and is there some better way to get them? Thanks for your reply I know this is possible because I have seen discussion of it in Linux and wine forums. I'm just too inexperienced to know which bits of the instructions are OS-specific, and what other nightmares I might face. I might be able to figure it all out by weeks of trial and error, but that seems crazy if someone has been there before me! As for why I want it to run, that is because the application I want to run is a bolt-on to a specific bit of rendering software that we use, and there really is no viable non-Windows replacement in our situation - believe me, if there was, I'd be using it. (In case you care, we are talking about Vray for Rhino, which we use because we use Rhino, and because we use Rhino we chose RhinoCAM, and because we chose RhinoCAM I spent weeks writing software to make it talk to our CNC equipment, whose controller is inextricably Windows-based... you get the picture!) In answer to the other replies (thanks to you guys too): Yes, wine is fine with just the command prompt. It is somewhat confusing in that it offers a thing called wineconsole, but ironically that *does* appear to require X. Just using wine without X is fine, so long as the app does not attempt to open any sort of window, system tray etc. As for the 'cluttering' - I'm not so worried about disk space, that's cheap these days. It's more a question of updating ports. When I once made the mistake of installing X and various other things I turned out not to need, the process of updating everything became a nightmare - stuff breaking because I hadn't read the updating info for a bunch of fonts or something stupid like that. Multiply that by 3 servers, and, well, no thanks! wineconsole app seems working fine in terminal with no X at all. I ran it like this: ./wineconsole --backend=curses cmd -- Best regards, Jeff | Nobody wants to say how this works. | | Maybe nobody knows ... | | Xorg.conf(5)| ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
