RE: coldfusion alternative

2006-07-20 Thread Tamouh H. 
 
> OK so a good customer of long standing wants a coldfusion website.
> Some "developer", the husband of one of his staff (so that 
> makes him a trusted advisor, right?), has convinced him "it's 
> the only way to do it".
> My position is maybe that's the only way -he- can do it but 
> there's a whole wide world of alternatives out there.
> 
> Looking at it, he wants to collect some data on an input 
> form, then hash it over a couple of ways and present the 
> results.  Pretty graphics maybe as well.  Looks to me like 
> Perl... don't even need a real database, heck DB_File would 
> work just fine for this.
> OK with me...
> ...but what's the argument to present other than "you don't 
> need coldfusion"?
> 
> I'd even put CF on the system and be done with it if there 
> was a FreeBSD version (anyone have any luck with that?).  
> Tracked down BlueDragon but that's apparently Win only as well.
> 
> Ammunition wanted.
> Thanks
> Glenn.


Check Blue Dragon Server, it works like CF, there is a free version as well.

http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/

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Re: coldfusion alternative

2006-07-20 Thread Chuck Swiger 

Glenn McCalley wrote:

Looking at it, he wants to collect some data on an input form, then hash it
over a couple of ways and present the results.  Pretty graphics maybe as
well.  Looks to me like Perl... don't even need a real database, heck
DB_File would work just fine for this.
OK with me...
...but what's the argument to present other than "you don't need
coldfusion"?


You might want to look into WebObjects from Apple and ReportMill (which is 
also the company name).  Both of them are tools worth knowing, even if you 
might choose to use something else for a particular circumstance.


--
-Chuck
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Re: coldfusion alternative

2006-07-20 Thread Malcolm Fitzgerald 


On 20/07/2006, at 11:10 AM, Glenn McCalley wrote:


OK so a good customer of long standing wants a coldfusion website.
Some "developer", the husband of one of his staff (so that makes him a
trusted advisor, right?), has convinced him "it's the only way to do 
it".
My position is maybe that's the only way -he- can do it but there's a 
whole

wide world of alternatives out there.


Well, you know that CF is a database / template / processor. It's a 
great idea but there are plenty of Perl, or PHP / SQL solutions. What 
about Mason? 


malcolm


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Re: coldfusion alternative

2006-07-19 Thread Jim Stapleton 

On 7/19/06, Glenn McCalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

OK so a good customer of long standing wants a coldfusion website.
Some "developer", the husband of one of his staff (so that makes him a
trusted advisor, right?), has convinced him "it's the only way to do it".
My position is maybe that's the only way -he- can do it but there's a whole
wide world of alternatives out there.

Looking at it, he wants to collect some data on an input form, then hash it
over a couple of ways and present the results.  Pretty graphics maybe as
well.  Looks to me like Perl... don't even need a real database, heck
DB_File would work just fine for this.
OK with me...
...but what's the argument to present other than "you don't need
coldfusion"?

I'd even put CF on the system and be done with it if there was a FreeBSD
version (anyone have any luck with that?).  Tracked down BlueDragon but
that's apparently Win only as well.

Ammunition wanted.
Thanks
Glenn.





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I wish I had something more solid than this, but this is the best I
have at the moment. I would never suggest cold fusion for one primary
reason:

Every bit of documentation I've seen suggests that
"fieldname_required" hidden fields are a good idea for data
verification, and they don't mention _anything_ else, or even suggest
the risk with this.

Well, the problem is, a hacker won't sent those tags, and if the data
is critical, then not putting backups could be dangerous. This isn't
necessarily an issue, any two-bit dev should be able to figure this
one out. However useing that as well as a backup check is redundant
and wasteful.

Effectively you are wasting time or giving a hacker a hackme howto.

Any language that promotes either of those is a language I would never
trust - who knows what they've done inside of it, away from prying
eyes.

-Jim Stapleton
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Re: coldfusion alternative

2006-07-19 Thread Danny Thuering 

On 7/20/06, Glenn McCalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...

I'd even put CF on the system and be done with it if there was a FreeBSD
version (anyone have any luck with that?).  Tracked down BlueDragon but
that's apparently Win only as well.

...

hi,

you can deploy cf as a java application on any j2ee compliant
application server like tomcat :-)

bye
danny
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Re: coldfusion alternative

2006-07-19 Thread Norberto Meijome 
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:10:03 -0400
"Glenn McCalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> OK so a good customer of long standing wants a coldfusion website.
> Some "developer", the husband of one of his staff (so that makes him a
> trusted advisor, right?), has convinced him "it's the only way to do it".
> My position is maybe that's the only way -he- can do it but there's a whole
> wide world of alternatives out there.
> 
> Looking at it, he wants to collect some data on an input form, then hash it
> over a couple of ways and present the results.  Pretty graphics maybe as
> well.  Looks to me like Perl... don't even need a real database, heck
> DB_File would work just fine for this.
> OK with me...
> ...but what's the argument to present other than "you don't need
> coldfusion"?
> 
> I'd even put CF on the system and be done with it if there was a FreeBSD
> version (anyone have any luck with that?).  Tracked down BlueDragon but
> that's apparently Win only as well.
> 
> Ammunition wanted.
> Thanks
> Glenn.

hey,
sorry, i don't think I've included  much  hard-ammo... but anyway

I had to endure CF in a past life thanks to an over-enthusiastic colleague who
presented similar arguments to those described before I started ... then, of
course, he left and the rest is a (horrid) story. Anyway:

 - licensing : careful here - expensive (definitely way more expensive than
OSS - not only in licensing ,but support, community,etc). Not sure if it is
still true, but I remember we had to renew the license EVERY year to keep a
site alive. Ridiculous.
 - from memory, blue dragon (or some other 'dragon related to cf' did run on
linux and/or FBSD.
- last resort, CF runs on Linux  - maybe it runs under FBsd
with linux-compat?

- what does your client WANT? (not the means to get to it, but the end
result? ) figuring out the tech to use for a solution isnt, IMHO, what he/she
should be worrying about - follow a normal spec out of the project, then
present the different alternatives... maybe, and just *maybe*, CF *IS* the best
solution, but I very seriously doubt it.

btw, you can still have a Flash powered site without cf ;) 

good luck ;)
Beto

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