Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Nikolas Britton]

All of the other Display SubSections are not required, I've never
needed to swich my color depth or screen resolution on the fly so I
stopped putting them in a while ago It's a left over from the
1980s and 90s when cards could have a high color depth or a high
screen resolution but not both at the same time.

On 8/3/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


That is what I have. I got it out of the handbook. however I may have
forgotten the quotes. I will try it tonight.

Now there are several duplicates of that section. Should I updated each one
for each resolution and each color depth? Should there be only one? If I add
one for each resolution and color depth combo is there a way to switch the
resolution in the WM?

Thanks for the input.





Sincerely,
Joshua Lewis




 Original Message ----
Subject: Re: Replacing windows XP at home.
From: "Nikolas Britton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, August 02, 2006 1:01 pm
To: "Joshua Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Andrew Gould" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  "Jerry McAllister"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED],
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org

On 8/2/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I am actually not looking for a Windows look alike. I am simply
>replacing my XP system with a BSD solution. I am looking for a fast
>easy to configure and fun WM. I am absolutely looking for something
>new to use. not Windows like. That is why I was looking at
>enlightenment and fluxbox. but there are just so many I was hoping to
>get ideas as to why one would choose one over the other. Other then

>personal preference. I have been using enlightenment for about a week
>and perhaps it is something I did but my resolution is stuck at
>1600x1280 at 65Hz. My monitor keeps getting mad at me and telling me
>that is not the recommended solution. I have been trying to figure out
>how to change it and I have updated the xorg.conf as the handbook says
>but it still defaults. Unless anyone has an idea why I am going to
>switch to fluxbox and see how that feels.
>
>
>
>I did want to mention that I do agree with your point. I am looking
>for something new and I am looking to experiment with other ways of
>doing things. But at the same time I would like a little eye candy.
>After all with today's power full systems there is nothing wrong with
>waisting a few CPU cycles to make the experience a little more
>enjoyable.
>
>
>
>I will certainly give XFCE a try I have seen allot of recommendations
>for that as well.
>Sincerely,
>Joshua Lewis
>


/etc/X11/xorg.conf should look sorta like this, yours should have more
Display SubSections in it:

Section "Screen"
   Identifier "Screen0"
   Device "Card0"
   Monitor"Monitor0"
   DefaultDepth 24
   SubSection "Display"
   Viewport   0 0
   Depth 24
   Modes   "1280x1024"
   EndSubSection
EndSection



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http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/




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RE: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Joshua Lewis]

   That is what I have. I got it out of the handbook. however I may have
   forgotten the quotes. I will try it tonight.



   Now there are several duplicates of that section. Should I updated
   each one for each resolution and each color depth? Should there be
   only one? If I add one for each resolution and color depth combo is
   there a way to switch the resolution in the WM?



   Thanks for the input.
   Sincerely,
   Joshua Lewis

  Original Message 
 Subject: Re: Replacing windows XP at home.
 From: "Nikolas Britton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Date: Wed, August 02, 2006 1:01 pm
 To: "Joshua Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Cc: "Andrew Gould" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  "Jerry McAllister"
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
 On 8/2/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 >I am actually not looking for a Windows look alike. I am
 simply
 >replacing my XP system with a BSD solution. I am looking for a
 fast
 >easy to configure and fun WM. I am absolutely looking for
 something
 >new to use. not Windows like. That is why I was looking at
 >enlightenment and fluxbox. but there are just so many I was
 hoping to
 >get ideas as to why one would choose one over the other. Other
 then
 >personal preference. I have been using enlightenment for about
 a week
 >and perhaps it is something I did but my resolution is stuck
 at
 >1600x1280 at 65Hz. My monitor keeps getting mad at me and
 telling me
 >that is not the recommended solution. I have been trying to
 figure out
 >how to change it and I have updated the xorg.conf as the
 handbook says
 >but it still defaults. Unless anyone has an idea why I am
 going to
 >switch to fluxbox and see how that feels.
 >
 >
 >
 >I did want to mention that I do agree with your point. I am
 looking
 >for something new and I am looking to experiment with other
 ways of
 >doing things. But at the same time I would like a little eye
 candy.
 >After all with today's power full systems there is nothing
 wrong with
 >waisting a few CPU cycles to make the experience a little more
 >enjoyable.
 >
 >
 >
 >I will certainly give XFCE a try I have seen allot of
 recommendations
 >for that as well.
 >Sincerely,
 >Joshua Lewis
 >
 /etc/X11/xorg.conf should look sorta like this, yours should have
 more
 Display SubSections in it:
 Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Card0"
Monitor"Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Viewport   0 0
Depth 24
Modes   "1280x1024"
EndSubSection
 EndSection
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 http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/
 http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Matthew Seaman]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 08:56:33AM -0700, Joshua Lewis wrote:

> Other then
>personal preference. I have been using enlightenment for about a week
>and perhaps it is something I did but my resolution is stuck at
>1600x1280 at 65Hz. My monitor keeps getting mad at me and telling me
>that is not the recommended solution. I have been trying to figure out
>how to change it and I have updated the xorg.conf as the handbook says
>but it still defaults. Unless anyone has an idea why I am going to
>switch to fluxbox and see how that feels.

Display resolution is independant of the window manager you choose.
As you say, you've looked at xorg.conf, and that's the right place
to go to fix this problem.

The automatic X -config stuff tends to get you the largest screen
real-estate that X thinks your graphics card and monitor are capable
of supporting.  In the past that often meant running at a lower colour
depth (which tends not to be a problem nowadays when 64MB is
considered a small quantity of graphics memory) or running at a lower
refresh rate (much more likely to be a problem).

In order to override the resolution presented to you, you can edit the
last section in xorg.conf, the "Screen" section.  There's two things
you can add to this section that help.  First you can force the colour
depth of the monitor to 24bits.  Your graphics card might support
32bits, but that isn't actually any higher colour resolution than
24bits -- the extra 8bits is used for fancy stuff like z-buffering or
alpha (transparency).  Secondly, you can tell X what your preferred
screen resolution is.  On my system, I like to run at 1600x1200.  The
monitor will do 1920x1440 but it's not really a supported resolution
according to the manufacturers and the low refresh rate is annoying.
So I have the following in my xorg.conf:

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Card0"
Monitor"Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Viewport   0 0
Depth 1
Modes "1600x1200" "1920x1440" "1280x1024" "1152x864"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport   0 0
Depth 4
Modes "1600x1200" "1920x1440" "1280x1024" "1152x864"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport   0 0
Depth 8
Modes "1600x1200" "1920x1440" "1280x1024" "1152x864"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport   0 0
Depth 15
Modes "1600x1200" "1920x1440" "1280x1024" "1152x864"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport   0 0
Depth 16
Modes "1600x1200" "1920x1440" "1280x1024" "1152x864"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport   0 0
Depth 24
Modes "1600x1200" "1920x1440" "1280x1024" "1152x864"
EndSubSection
EndSection
 
ie. add the 'DefaultDepth 24' and 'Modes ...' lines.  The modes lines
give alternate resolutions that you can cycle through using
Ctrl-Alt-KP_Plus or Ctrl-Alt-KP_Minus (ie + or - from the numeric
keypad, not the ones on the top row of the main set of keys).

Also, look at /var/log/Xorg.N.log which will tell you what modes your
system thinks are workable, even if you put something a little too
ambitious in the config file.

  Cheers,

  Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
  Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
  Kent, CT11 9PW


pgpf67tOqQq0z.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Nikolas Britton]

On 8/2/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


   I am actually not looking for a Windows look alike. I am simply
   replacing my XP system with a BSD solution. I am looking for a fast
   easy to configure and fun WM. I am absolutely looking for something
   new to use. not Windows like. That is why I was looking at
   enlightenment and fluxbox. but there are just so many I was hoping to
   get ideas as to why one would choose one over the other. Other then
   personal preference. I have been using enlightenment for about a week
   and perhaps it is something I did but my resolution is stuck at
   1600x1280 at 65Hz. My monitor keeps getting mad at me and telling me
   that is not the recommended solution. I have been trying to figure out
   how to change it and I have updated the xorg.conf as the handbook says
   but it still defaults. Unless anyone has an idea why I am going to
   switch to fluxbox and see how that feels.



   I did want to mention that I do agree with your point. I am looking
   for something new and I am looking to experiment with other ways of
   doing things. But at the same time I would like a little eye candy.
   After all with today's power full systems there is nothing wrong with
   waisting a few CPU cycles to make the experience a little more
   enjoyable.



   I will certainly give XFCE a try I have seen allot of recommendations
   for that as well.
   Sincerely,
   Joshua Lewis




/etc/X11/xorg.conf should look sorta like this, yours should have more
Display SubSections in it:

Section "Screen"
   Identifier "Screen0"
   Device "Card0"
   Monitor"Monitor0"
   DefaultDepth 24
   SubSection "Display"
   Viewport   0 0
   Depth 24
   Modes   "1280x1024"
   EndSubSection
EndSection



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http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/
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RE: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Joshua Lewis]

   I am actually not looking for a Windows look alike. I am simply
   replacing my XP system with a BSD solution. I am looking for a fast
   easy to configure and fun WM. I am absolutely looking for something
   new to use. not Windows like. That is why I was looking at
   enlightenment and fluxbox. but there are just so many I was hoping to
   get ideas as to why one would choose one over the other. Other then
   personal preference. I have been using enlightenment for about a week
   and perhaps it is something I did but my resolution is stuck at
   1600x1280 at 65Hz. My monitor keeps getting mad at me and telling me
   that is not the recommended solution. I have been trying to figure out
   how to change it and I have updated the xorg.conf as the handbook says
   but it still defaults. Unless anyone has an idea why I am going to
   switch to fluxbox and see how that feels.



   I did want to mention that I do agree with your point. I am looking
   for something new and I am looking to experiment with other ways of
   doing things. But at the same time I would like a little eye candy.
   After all with today's power full systems there is nothing wrong with
   waisting a few CPU cycles to make the experience a little more
   enjoyable.



   I will certainly give XFCE a try I have seen allot of recommendations
   for that as well.
   Sincerely,
   Joshua Lewis

  Original Message 
 Subject: Re: Replacing windows XP at home.
 From: Andrew Gould <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Date: Tue, August 01, 2006 12:27 pm
 To: Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
 --- Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 wrote:
 > >
 > > Joshua Lewis wrote:
 > > >
 > > >Would I be better off just going with Gnome
 > or KDE? I realize once I
 > > >start installing apps that I will probably
 > wind up installing
 > > >something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so
 > I am going to wind up
 > > >bloating my system any ways right?
 > > >
 > >
 > > Look at them both and make a choice if you like
 > either.
 > > I tried both in the past, but found they were not
 > for me for various
 > > reasons, so I went looking,  also tried Xfce as
 > has been mentioned, but
 > > I decided I wanted to try something really
 > different from things that
 > > seemed Windows like.
 > >
 > > Tried WindowMaker and have been using it now for a
 > long time. Here is
 > > the url www.windowmaker.info if you are
 > interested.
 > > As you requested lean and fast, little slow
 > getting started, only
 > > because it is very different in the approach of
 > say Gnome, KDE, or Xfce,
 > > but once you get used to it, works great. I also
 > like dock apps, which
 > > you can get more info at http://dockapps.org/
 >
 > Gee, I just use AfterStep.   Of course, that isn't
 > really an MS-Win
 > environment replacement.  It doesn't even attempt to
 > be.   But then I
 > really do not want to have the look and feel of
 > MS-Win.I want something
 > more straight-forward and less icky.
 >
 > jerry
 >
 > > Good Luck,
 > > Sean
 This is a good point here.  Whereas it's good to have
 something familiar for immediate productivity, it's
 also good to explore different options to experience
 benefits/drawbacks that you hadn't considered before.
 In *nix (includind BSD's and Linux), you're not
 limited to one window manager.  You can install
 several and use whichever matches your mood at the
 time.
 I used to use KDE and Gnome simply because the menus
 contained so many applications that were new to me.
 Once I knew which applications I wanted to use, I
 switched to XFCE because it's faster.  I still use
 XFCE for my office productivity; but I'm still
 experimenting with icewm and windowmaker on an older
 computer because they "feel" so much faster.
 Definitely choose a window manager that will give you
 a  positive experience now; but take time to browse
 *nix's other offerings.  If you don't try new things,
 how can you make an informed decision?
 Andrew L. Gould
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Andrew Gould]

--- Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> > 
> > Joshua Lewis wrote:
> > > 
> > >Would I be better off just going with Gnome
> or KDE? I realize once I
> > >start installing apps that I will probably
> wind up installing
> > >something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so
> I am going to wind up
> > >bloating my system any ways right?
> > > 
> > 
> > Look at them both and make a choice if you like
> either.
> > I tried both in the past, but found they were not
> for me for various 
> > reasons, so I went looking,  also tried Xfce as
> has been mentioned, but 
> > I decided I wanted to try something really
> different from things that 
> > seemed Windows like.
> > 
> > Tried WindowMaker and have been using it now for a
> long time. Here is 
> > the url www.windowmaker.info if you are
> interested.
> > As you requested lean and fast, little slow
> getting started, only 
> > because it is very different in the approach of
> say Gnome, KDE, or Xfce, 
> > but once you get used to it, works great. I also
> like dock apps, which 
> > you can get more info at http://dockapps.org/
> 
> Gee, I just use AfterStep.   Of course, that isn't
> really an MS-Win
> environment replacement.  It doesn't even attempt to
> be.   But then I 
> really do not want to have the look and feel of
> MS-Win.I want something 
> more straight-forward and less icky.   
> 
> jerry
> 
> > Good Luck,
> > Sean

This is a good point here.  Whereas it's good to have
something familiar for immediate productivity, it's
also good to explore different options to experience
benefits/drawbacks that you hadn't considered before.

In *nix (includind BSD's and Linux), you're not
limited to one window manager.  You can install
several and use whichever matches your mood at the
time.

I used to use KDE and Gnome simply because the menus
contained so many applications that were new to me. 
Once I knew which applications I wanted to use, I
switched to XFCE because it's faster.  I still use
XFCE for my office productivity; but I'm still
experimenting with icewm and windowmaker on an older
computer because they "feel" so much faster.

Definitely choose a window manager that will give you
a  positive experience now; but take time to browse
*nix's other offerings.  If you don't try new things,
how can you make an informed decision?

Andrew L. Gould
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> Joshua Lewis wrote:
> > 
> >Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
> >start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
> >something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
> >bloating my system any ways right?
> > 
> 
> Look at them both and make a choice if you like either.
> I tried both in the past, but found they were not for me for various 
> reasons, so I went looking,  also tried Xfce as has been mentioned, but 
> I decided I wanted to try something really different from things that 
> seemed Windows like.
> 
> Tried WindowMaker and have been using it now for a long time. Here is 
> the url www.windowmaker.info if you are interested.
> As you requested lean and fast, little slow getting started, only 
> because it is very different in the approach of say Gnome, KDE, or Xfce, 
> but once you get used to it, works great. I also like dock apps, which 
> you can get more info at http://dockapps.org/

Gee, I just use AfterStep.   Of course, that isn't really an MS-Win
environment replacement.  It doesn't even attempt to be.   But then I 
really do not want to have the look and feel of MS-Win.I want something 
more straight-forward and less icky.   

jerry

>   Good Luck,
>   Sean
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Greg Groth]

doug wrote:



On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, RW wrote:


On Wednesday 26 July 2006 16:23, Joshua Lewis wrote:


   KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have also
   been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
   looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.

   Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
   start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
   something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
   bloating my system any ways right?



KDE is mostly application modules, which you don't need to install if 
you dont

want them. These days, though, the avoidance of bloat is mostly just a
fetish.  I've not noticed any speed difference between KDE and the 
lighter

window managers for years. And as far as disk space is concerned we are
talking about pennies. I've tried fluxbox and the like off-and-on, but I
always miss some KDE feature within minutes.

Personally I don't like Gnome, it's less polished than KDE by a 
sustantial

margin; and while upgrading KDE is always easy, Gnome's complex depencies
mean that a special script has to be run, and even that doesn't always 
work.


I agree with this thought. There is a wrapper port/package kde-lite. I 
run kde on a 400Mhz laptop and mostly can not tell the difference 
between using that and my new thinkpad. OpenOffice is much, much, ..., 
better the kdeoffice. The ultimate lightweight window manager is twm. It 
is built into X. I use it to install KDE. All of this is very personal. 
It is well worth finding the one you like.


If kde-lite is too much, you can just install kde-base, kde-libs, 
kde-admin & kde-utils and end up with kde having close to the 
functionality of new XP install.  I think the only thing that's missing 
are the games, Media Player and a messenger client.


Greg Groth
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Sean]

Joshua Lewis wrote:


   Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
   start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
   something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
   bloating my system any ways right?



Look at them both and make a choice if you like either.
I tried both in the past, but found they were not for me for various 
reasons, so I went looking,  also tried Xfce as has been mentioned, but 
I decided I wanted to try something really different from things that 
seemed Windows like.


Tried WindowMaker and have been using it now for a long time. Here is 
the url www.windowmaker.info if you are interested.
As you requested lean and fast, little slow getting started, only 
because it is very different in the approach of say Gnome, KDE, or Xfce, 
but once you get used to it, works great. I also like dock apps, which 
you can get more info at http://dockapps.org/


Good Luck,
Sean
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Nikolas Britton]

On 7/26/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


   I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are a thousand
   answers to this question.



   I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
   installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a window
   manager.




I use KDE, a large part of the reason is the apps. Opera, Amarok, K3B,
Qalculate, Quanta Plus, Koffice 1.5, Kaffeine, Konsole, Kate/Kdevelop,
KPatience. I could keep going... anyways... I came to KDE in a round
about way, my general path looks something like this:

Apple IIgs --> DOS/Win3.x/Win9x/WinNT --> RadHat 5 --> SuSE --> Win2k
--> Linux --> Gnome/FreeBSD 4.7 --> XFCE/FreeBSD --> KDE/FreeBSD
5.3+/6.x.

I should also add that I regularly use Mac OS X by choice at work. I
think the best suggestion I can offer you is to try everything.


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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Chris Whitehouse]

Icewm since noone else mentioned it. It is small and light, very 
attractive (I think) and is quite windows like in its look so windows 
users find it quite accessible. Fluxbox is also nice if you want 
something light but I chose icewm over fluxbox when setting up pentium 1 
desktops for windows users because of its more windows-ish look


Chris

Joshua Lewis wrote:

   Thank you to everyone who gave me some ideas. That was a great help.
   It looks like I am going to need to install more then one WM and just
   figure out which one suits my needs the best. Thanks again.
   Sincerely,
   Joshua Lewis
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RE: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Joshua Lewis]

   Thank you to everyone who gave me some ideas. That was a great help.
   It looks like I am going to need to install more then one WM and just
   figure out which one suits my needs the best. Thanks again.
   Sincerely,
   Joshua Lewis
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[David Robillard]

I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are thousand answers to 
this question.


Here's a quick URL which can help decide on which Window Manager one
might use. It has a comprehensive list of many WM with descriptions
and screenshots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_manager

Have fun,

David

--
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UNIX systems administrator & Oracle DBA
CISSP, RHCE & Sun Certified Security Administrator
Montreal: +1 514 966 0122
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Chris Hill]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Joshua Lewis wrote, in part:


  I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
  installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a window
  manager.

  I want something lean and fast but I want to have my cake and eat it
  to because I do want something that is not strait up ugly and is
  functional.


Coming in late, I'll second the many motions for xfce4. It's pretty and 
fast and very accessible for Windows users. It's also fairly easy to 
customize. Having said that, I personally use fvwm because it seems 
simpler. Fvwm is just a window manager, not an all-singing, all-dancing 
desktop environment.


I've tried KDE, and it too would be familiar and instantly useable for 
someone accustomed to Windows. While there's nothing wrong with it, it 
was a bit "too much" for my taste.


The best idea was, of course, John Nielsen's advice to install several 
and see what you like.


There is information on many window managers at http://xwinman.org/

HTH.

--
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** [ Busy Expunging <|> ]
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[RW]

On Wednesday 26 July 2006 20:39, Garrett Cooper wrote:

> Performance is all relative though, based on what your machine's
> speed is, how much RAM it has, disk space, etc. I personally abandoned
> Gnome and KDE approximately 1-2 years ago because I found compiling the
> packages to be too much of a pain and take too much time to accomplish.

I rebuild KDE while I'm  running KDE, I've never had a problem doing that. It 
take about 1 minute of my time, and  it doesn't prevent me watching video or 
burning DVDs or any of the normal things.
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Garrett Cooper]

Peter wrote:

--- Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

   I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are a
thousand
   answers to this question.



   I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
   installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a
window
   manager.



   There are what seems like hundreds of different WM in the ports
   collection and there is no way I will be able to find the time to
read
   them all and get any kind of good idea on what each one does.



   I am hoping a few people form the list could e-mail me what they
like
   and for what reason.



   I want something lean and fast but I want to have my cake and eat
it
   to because I do want something that is not strait up ugly and is
   functional.



   KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have
also
   been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
   looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.



   Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once
I
   start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
   something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind
up
   bloating my system any ways right?



I know both KDE and fluxbox quite well.  They provide two entirely
different experiences.   Installing KDE will give you applications and
a heavy desktop environment (with menus everywhere) while fluxbox will
just give you a light window manager.  I suggest you go for KDE first
just to convince yourself that it is possible to have a Microsoft-like
experience within an Open Source OS and then go for fluxbox.

If you want something in between KDE and fluxbox then you may want to
try XFCE.

Of course, there are many more alternatives but these are the ones I
have used a fair amount.

Peter
Something else coming around the turnpike soon for FreeBSD I assume: 


-Garrett
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Peter]

--- Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
>I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are a
> thousand
>answers to this question.
> 
> 
> 
>I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
>installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a
> window
>manager.
> 
> 
> 
>There are what seems like hundreds of different WM in the ports
>collection and there is no way I will be able to find the time to
> read
>them all and get any kind of good idea on what each one does.
> 
> 
> 
>I am hoping a few people form the list could e-mail me what they
> like
>and for what reason.
> 
> 
> 
>I want something lean and fast but I want to have my cake and eat
> it
>to because I do want something that is not strait up ugly and is
>functional.
> 
> 
> 
>KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have
> also
>been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
>looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.
> 
> 
> 
>Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once
> I
>start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
>something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind
> up
>bloating my system any ways right?

I know both KDE and fluxbox quite well.  They provide two entirely
different experiences.   Installing KDE will give you applications and
a heavy desktop environment (with menus everywhere) while fluxbox will
just give you a light window manager.  I suggest you go for KDE first
just to convince yourself that it is possible to have a Microsoft-like
experience within an Open Source OS and then go for fluxbox.

If you want something in between KDE and fluxbox then you may want to
try XFCE.

Of course, there are many more alternatives but these are the ones I
have used a fair amount.

Peter

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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Garrett Cooper]

jan gestre wrote:

On 7/26/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



   I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are a thousand
   answers to this question.



   I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
   installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a window
   manager.



   There are what seems like hundreds of different WM in the ports
   collection and there is no way I will be able to find the time to 
read

   them all and get any kind of good idea on what each one does.



   I am hoping a few people form the list could e-mail me what they like
   and for what reason.



   I want something lean and fast but I want to have my cake and eat it
   to because I do want something that is not strait up ugly and is
   functional.



   KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have also
   been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
   looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.



   Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
   start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
   something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
   bloating my system any ways right?



gnome and kde are both bloated, why not xfce or fluxbox, they are both
lean and fast.
   Performance is all relative though, based on what your machine's 
speed is, how much RAM it has, disk space, etc. I personally abandoned 
Gnome and KDE approximately 1-2 years ago because I found compiling the 
packages to be too much of a pain and take too much time to accomplish. 
I use XFCE4.2, and if I feel like it, I use fluxbox from time to time. 
However, functionality-wise I find XFCE4.2 to be the best thing out 
there right now, mostly because of the additional daemons and minor 
programs that run in the background for both KDE (Konqueror, kstart, 
etc) and Gnome (Nautilus, gnome*daemon, etc).
   I will say this though: if you want everything, including all the 
trimmings in a desktop, go for KDE. If you want hardware to just work 
and like a more "polished" (ie less cubic) and maybe a bit cartoony 
look, go for Gnome.

-Garrett
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[jan gestre]

On 7/26/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



   I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are a thousand
   answers to this question.



   I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
   installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a window
   manager.



   There are what seems like hundreds of different WM in the ports
   collection and there is no way I will be able to find the time to read
   them all and get any kind of good idea on what each one does.



   I am hoping a few people form the list could e-mail me what they like
   and for what reason.



   I want something lean and fast but I want to have my cake and eat it
   to because I do want something that is not strait up ugly and is
   functional.



   KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have also
   been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
   looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.



   Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
   start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
   something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
   bloating my system any ways right?



gnome and kde are both bloated, why not xfce or fluxbox, they are both
lean and fast.


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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[RW]

On Wednesday 26 July 2006 18:34, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 06:15:48PM +0100, RW wrote:
> > KDE is mostly application modules, which you don't need to install if you
> > dont want them. These days, though, the avoidance of bloat is mostly just
> > a fetish.  I've not noticed any speed difference between KDE and the
> > lighter window managers for years. And as far as disk space is concerned
> > we are talking about pennies. I've tried fluxbox and the like off-and-on,
> > but I always miss some KDE feature within minutes.
>
> I disagree. Bloat is bloat. I'm using ion3 on my laptop and it's
> blazingly fast. I installed KDE on my wife's computer and while it's not
> a dog it is NOT blazingly fast.

All I can say is I don't see a difference between KDE, XFCE, Fluxbox and TWM 
on the same machine.
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[doug]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, RW wrote:


On Wednesday 26 July 2006 16:23, Joshua Lewis wrote:


   KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have also
   been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
   looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.

   Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
   start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
   something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
   bloating my system any ways right?



KDE is mostly application modules, which you don't need to install if you dont
want them. These days, though, the avoidance of bloat is mostly just a
fetish.  I've not noticed any speed difference between KDE and the lighter
window managers for years. And as far as disk space is concerned we are
talking about pennies. I've tried fluxbox and the like off-and-on, but I
always miss some KDE feature within minutes.

Personally I don't like Gnome, it's less polished than KDE by a sustantial
margin; and while upgrading KDE is always easy, Gnome's complex depencies
mean that a special script has to be run, and even that doesn't always work.


I agree with this thought. There is a wrapper port/package kde-lite. I run kde 
on a 400Mhz laptop and mostly can not tell the difference between using that and 
my new thinkpad. OpenOffice is much, much, ..., better the kdeoffice. The 
ultimate lightweight window manager is twm. It is built into X. I use it to 
install KDE. All of this is very personal. It is well worth finding the one you 
like.



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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Darrin Chandler]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 06:15:48PM +0100, RW wrote:
> KDE is mostly application modules, which you don't need to install if you 
> dont 
> want them. These days, though, the avoidance of bloat is mostly just a 
> fetish.  I've not noticed any speed difference between KDE and the lighter 
> window managers for years. And as far as disk space is concerned we are 
> talking about pennies. I've tried fluxbox and the like off-and-on, but I 
> always miss some KDE feature within minutes.

I disagree. Bloat is bloat. I'm using ion3 on my laptop and it's
blazingly fast. I installed KDE on my wife's computer and while it's not
a dog it is NOT blazingly fast.

OTOH, my wife's only experience was with Windows and she never had any
trouble finding her way around in KDE (which is why I installed it for
her). If you're replacing WinXP and you want people up to speed fairly
quickly then I think KDE is a pretty good choice.

-- 
Darrin Chandler|  Phoenix BSD Users Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[RW]

On Wednesday 26 July 2006 16:23, Joshua Lewis wrote:

>KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have also
>been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
>looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.
>
>Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
>start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
>something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
>bloating my system any ways right?


KDE is mostly application modules, which you don't need to install if you dont 
want them. These days, though, the avoidance of bloat is mostly just a 
fetish.  I've not noticed any speed difference between KDE and the lighter 
window managers for years. And as far as disk space is concerned we are 
talking about pennies. I've tried fluxbox and the like off-and-on, but I 
always miss some KDE feature within minutes.

Personally I don't like Gnome, it's less polished than KDE by a sustantial 
margin; and while upgrading KDE is always easy, Gnome's complex depencies 
mean that a special script has to be run, and even that doesn't always work. 
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[John Nielsen]

On Wednesday 26 July 2006 11:23, Joshua Lewis wrote:
>I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
>installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a window
>manager.
>
>There are what seems like hundreds of different WM in the ports
>collection and there is no way I will be able to find the time to read
>them all and get any kind of good idea on what each one does.
>
>I am hoping a few people form the list could e-mail me what they like
>and for what reason.

I use xfce. It's lightweight and very configurable. It has a few fancy tools 
(file manager, etc) but it doesn't force them on you. It's reasonably 
intelligent about saving sessions. Some of my favorite features are 
in "plugins", many of which are available as additional ports. (Personal 
favorites include xfce4-taskbar-plugin (instead of the freestanding taskbar), 
xfce4-cpugraph-plugin, xfce4-minicmd-plugin).

>I want something lean and fast but I want to have my cake and eat it
>to because I do want something that is not strait up ugly and is
>functional.

If you're willing to invest in some customization and add-ons, fluxbox is 
extremely lean and fast (but not very attractive or full-featured by 
default).

>KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have also
>been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
>looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.

Gnome is also rather bloated.

>Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
>start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
>something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
>bloating my system any ways right?

The two apps I use all the time are kmail (kde) and firefox (which uses gtk). 
Libraries sitting around on disk don't hurt your system, it's just the ones 
that are running. You can install KDE, Gnome, fluxbox, xfce4, and a couple 
others and switch between them to see what you like best. Once you've decided 
on something, uninstall what you don't use (the pkg_cutleaves port is very 
useful here).

JN
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Re: Replacing windows XP at home.

[Don Munyak]

On 7/26/06, Joshua Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


   I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are a thousand
   answers to this question.
   I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
   installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a window
   manager.



http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3064
search google for window manage comparisons

I have used xfce. It's light weight, GUI and customiseable

http://www.xfce.org/

~Don
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Replacing windows XP at home.

[Joshua Lewis]

   I have a hard question to ask and I realize that there are a thousand
   answers to this question.



   I am replacing my XP system with a FreeBSD 6.1 system. I finished
   installing it last night and cvsuped. Now I need to choose a window
   manager.



   There are what seems like hundreds of different WM in the ports
   collection and there is no way I will be able to find the time to read
   them all and get any kind of good idea on what each one does.



   I am hoping a few people form the list could e-mail me what they like
   and for what reason.



   I want something lean and fast but I want to have my cake and eat it
   to because I do want something that is not strait up ugly and is
   functional.



   KDE seems like it is bloated so I was considering Gnome. I have also
   been reading about enlightenment and it sounds interesting. I have
   looked into Fluxbox and it also seems like it would do the trick.



   Would I be better off just going with Gnome or KDE? I realize once I
   start installing apps that I will probably wind up installing
   something that uses Gnome or KDE libraries so I am going to wind up
   bloating my system any ways right?



   Thanks for any and all suggestions.
   Sincerely,
   Joshua Lewis
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