Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Sat, Mar 19, 2005 at 03:58:53PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: Not true, based on the heavy response on this issue on the mailing lists every time it comes up. Oh come on. All that noise is from the same eight or ten people, while the thousands just ignore it and hope it will go away. Jerry, just because people don't spam the lists any further, doesn't mean it's not important to them. Behind the scenes, there's a lot of grumbling about this issue both in Unix User Groups and among sysadmins. The recent anti-beastie push (no, not necessarily the logo contest alone, but the complete campaign, even against the loader prompt!) is generating bad karma all over the place, and a lot of people, esp. outside the US, are really bewildered, why this is happening *right now*. It is a bikeshed discussion. I wished it would go away, together with the few anti-beastie campaign(ers). Please leave things as they are. There's no need to paint that bikeshed again; it is just fine. Regards, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: Peter Ulrich Kruppa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:47 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Jerry McAllister; Marco Greene (ML); freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt The ultra-pro-beastie movement is defined as the status quo, so it's impossible for it to destroy itself (except perhaps by apathy) So beastie stands for freedom, democracy, pursuit of happiness and a great operating system for everyone? No. Beastie stands for UNIX. If you want UNIX to stand for freedom, democracy, and the pursuit of happiness, then go for it. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: Jerry McAllister [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:47 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Jerry McAllister; Marco Greene (ML); freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt The ultra-pro-beastie movement is defined as the status quo, so it's impossible for it to destroy itself (except perhaps by apathy) The status quo is that not many people care. Not true, based on the heavy response on this issue on the mailing lists every time it comes up. The ultra-pro-beastie movement can destroy itself just like the other side by being so strident that they offend the status quo and majority and incite a dump-it movement just to show they won't be abused by either religious fringe - since the ultra-pro-beastie group seems to be the loudest and most narrowly beamed one at the moment. Uh, huh, and pigs can fly if you put wings on 'em. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: Jerry McAllister [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:47 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Jerry McAllister; Marco Greene (ML); freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt The ultra-pro-beastie movement is defined as the status quo, so it's impossible for it to destroy itself (except perhaps by apathy) The status quo is that not many people care. Not true, based on the heavy response on this issue on the mailing lists every time it comes up. Oh come on. All that noise is from the same eight or ten people, while the thousands just ignore it and hope it will go away. The ultra-pro-beastie movement can destroy itself just like the other side by being so strident that they offend the status quo and majority and incite a dump-it movement just to show they won't be abused by either religious fringe - since the ultra-pro-beastie group seems to be the loudest and most narrowly beamed one at the moment. Uh, huh, and pigs can fly if you put wings on 'em. Well, those of extreme religious involvement in the subject are waiting with high expectation. jerry Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:53 AM To: Marco Greene (ML) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt Well, by now we are gleefully off topic for this list, so... Why not! ;-) The USA system attempts/purports to _protect_ the minorities. This exists because supposedly the system tries to protect everyone, not specifically the minorities. It is only an artifact that sometimes minorities find themselves able to use the system to influence some outcome. They do not seize control. They wield whatever poser/influence they can muster, but they do not seize control. What control exists, they do seize. Certainly, much of the actual control of the US system resides lower down in the food chain among the professional bureaucrats who survive administration after administration, regardless of who happens to be at the top. But, there still is a lot of real power at the top, and the people at the top are also able to make decisions that have implications that stretch far, far beyond their own brief period in power. As for example the decision to invade Iraq. Long after the Republicans are out of power, the US is still going to be involved there. Because by that time there will have been such a great loss of American life that even the strongest Democrat will not be able to pull out, because the hawks will claim that if he does he's throwing away everything that that large number of soldiers have given their lives for, and nobody will be able to survive that kind of criticism. As a result we will have permanent military bases there. And as a result we will have to keep going back in there year after year whenever the population there (who really does not want bases) manages to get a strong enough government in place that can threaten those bases existence. And also, Saudi Arabia wants us in there because that way we will control oil production, and thus not destroy OPEC's power. Iraq is the only country in the world that has the oil reserves large enough to destroy OPEC if they wished, and OPEC is Saudi Arabia's child. And independent Iraq with it's own government has always been a threat to OPEC and now that is gone. And because of all of this, our Energy policy has been permanently altered to be oil-based. We will never be able to return to conservation, solar, geothermal and so on. The dial has been stuck on Oil and will remain there until all oil reserves in Saudia Arabia and Iraq have been completely tapped out. And because of that, American soldiers will continue to die over there until that happens in maybe a century or so. And this is -exactly- what the ultraconservatives want. They wanted a US that is the world's policeman with an economy that supports a tremendous military-industrial complex, and that is what they got. Next, it was not exactly a failure. The use of alcohol went down very significantly. We don't really have any way of knowing that because none of this stuff was tracked, as it was illegal. And you might consider too that a still isn't practical in a densely populated area, it is likely that out West where the population density was much lower, that they were far more common than anyone would believe. Sure, each 'ultra' group contains the seeds/tools of its own destruction. No, not true. The Amish for example are definitely an off-the-bend ultra group, but they have a consistent internal philosophy, and the way they apply their philosophy is non hypocritical, thus they survive. The Quakers, the super-Mormons, even the survivalists, there are many of these out-in-left-field groups that are non-hypocritical in the application end. As a result they don't carry the seeds of their own destruction. Rather, there are other reasons that they can never grow beyond a small minority. There's plenty of stuff that you can fault the ultraliberals for, (stupidity, no common sense) but hypocrisy is not one of them. That particular problem is a speciality of the ultraconservatives. So, lets leave this topic at that. Either the ultra-anti-beastie or ultra-pro-beastie movements will destroy themselves. The ultra-pro-beastie movement is defined as the status quo, so it's impossible for it to destroy itself (except perhaps by apathy) So beastie stands for freedom, democracy, pursuit of happiness and a great operating system for everyone? Just a question from Central Europe. Uli. * * Peter Ulrich Kruppa - Wuppertal - Germany * * ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
Re all that stuff about Iraq and oil, etc that I nuked, many times in world history, self serving campaigners have made suckers of the unwashed masses and been able to claim them in a majority. That is not the same as the minority seizing power because of the way our system is constructed. It is an (often) unfortunate artifact of the human condition. they were far more common than anyone would believe. Sure, each 'ultra' group contains the seeds/tools of its own destruction. No, not true. The Amish for example are definitely an off-the-bend ultra group, but they have a consistent internal philosophy, and the way they apply their philosophy is non hypocritical, thus they survive. The Quakers, the super-Mormons, even the survivalists, there are many of these out-in-left-field groups that are non-hypocritical in the application end. As a result they don't carry the seeds of their own destruction. Rather, there are other reasons that they can never grow beyond a small minority. There are other seeds of self destruction beside hypocrisy. The Amish and some similar groups just gradually die off, for example.By the way, there is plenty of hypocrisy in the Amish community.It may look different from what we are all used to seeing but it is there. Survivalists/militia groups feed on people's personal pathology and must constantly be resupplied by fresh self-loathing recruits. They are somewhat a product of the failure of mainstream society and maybe some of that hypocrisy you seem interested in. There's plenty of stuff that you can fault the ultraliberals for, (stupidity, no common sense) but hypocrisy is not one of them. That particular problem is a speciality of the ultraconservatives. Well, it seems so, but even the ultra liberals abuse weaker persons within their groups. That, for example, has been one of the complaints of women for the last hundred years or more (my memory doesn't go back much farther than that). And they usually show none of their liberal consideration toward their opponents, even though their doctrine would call for it. So, lets leave this topic at that. Either the ultra-anti-beastie or ultra-pro-beastie movements will destroy themselves. The ultra-pro-beastie movement is defined as the status quo, so it's impossible for it to destroy itself (except perhaps by apathy) The status quo is that not many people care. The ultra-pro-beastie movement can destroy itself just like the other side by being so strident that they offend the status quo and majority and incite a dump-it movement just to show they won't be abused by either religious fringe - since the ultra-pro-beastie group seems to be the loudest and most narrowly beamed one at the moment. jerry Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
So, lets leave this topic at that. Either the ultra-anti-beastie or ultra-pro-beastie movements will destroy themselves. The ultra-pro-beastie movement is defined as the status quo, so it's impossible for it to destroy itself (except perhaps by apathy) So beastie stands for freedom, democracy, pursuit of happiness and a great operating system for everyone? Just a question from Central Europe. Uli. It seems to in Ted M's world. In my world, being able to sleep as long as I want and to come in to work on my own schedule comes closer to representing those principles - and so I would have to say I live in a world that falls far short of the ideal... jerry * * Peter Ulrich Kruppa - Wuppertal - Germany * * ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Sunday 13 March 2005 15:47, Luyt wrote: On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:06, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world What is the daemon doing to that funny penguin? http://gbraad.spotsnel.nl/images/takeittux.png LOL, that would make a great FreeBSD inside sticker ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Sunday 13 March 2005 02:06 am, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa Best way to remove the little fella it is to load a different OS. Try out Microsoft's products, they are supposedly PC. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Michael C. Shultz wrote: On Sunday 13 March 2005 02:06 am, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional As opposed to? The multi-colored Windows? The Penguin? The Blowfish? 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world I highly doubt that one... 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah Then change your friends... Seems like they may be a bit on the immature side. somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa Best way to remove the little fella it is to load a different OS. Try out Microsoft's products, they are supposedly PC. -Mike Either that or wait till 5.4 is out. I'm somewhat certain that the lil guy isnt in 6.0, and it may not be in 5.4 Just my few pennies woith Best regards, Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael C. Shultz Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt Best way to remove the little fella it is to load a different OS. Try out Microsoft's products, they are supposedly PC. Mike, he said he didn't want to invite Evil into his world... Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 07:31 am, you wrote: On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Michael C. Shultz wrote: On Sunday 13 March 2005 02:06 am, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional As opposed to? The multi-colored Windows? The Penguin? The Blowfish? 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world I highly doubt that one... 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah Then change your friends... Seems like they may be a bit on the immature side. somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa Best way to remove the little fella it is to load a different OS. Try out Microsoft's products, they are supposedly PC. -Mike Either that or wait till 5.4 is out. I'm somewhat certain that the lil guy isnt in 6.0, and it may not be in 5.4 Just my few pennies woith Best regards, Chris adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael C. Shultz Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:42 AM To: RacerX Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. It's important to understand that there's only 1 or 2 of the core members that have sticks up their ass about this issue. The rest of them don't understand why it's necessary to waste time or labor on this issue. The question then becomes if your a core member, are you going to bother to spend time on a logo change or not? If the 1 or 2 core members come up with a different logo, the rest of core probably isn't going to expend effort on changing the logo, and all the work to do this will rest on the shoulders of the 1 or 2 malcontents. What I think is going to end up happening if they do get a decent logo out of this contest, is that ultimately your going to see the new logo used in a few places here and there on the Internet, and your going to see beastie used at most other places. It will simply present more confusion to non-FreeBSD users if it does anything at all. Most likely it will do nothing at all, in the same way that GM for example uses multiple brands for the same iron. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
Michael C. Shultz wrote: adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. -Mike For what values of it? FreeBSD is an operating system, not a logo. Most people's decision to use the OS aren't based on its mascot, I would hope. FBSD has close ties with the Beastie artwork, to be sure; but saying that the designers won't stick by it when referring to artwork (rather than a work of art --- that is, the system itself) is a emotionally biased statement. Not that such is inappropriate, but to contend that FreeBSD isn't worthy to use because of contention over marketing type issues also *seems* unwise KDK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 08:08 am, you wrote: Michael C. Shultz wrote: adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. -Mike For what values of it? FreeBSD is an operating system, not a logo. Most people's decision to use the OS aren't based on its mascot, I would hope. If the logo is of no importance, then why did it ever exist? FreeBSD started with this logo and needs to stick by it in my opinion. If someone comes up with a better looking beastie that is fine, to arbitrally change it after 20 years because a few people are offended shows cowardness in the face of nearly 0 diversity. If you toss beastie probably should change to change chmod 666 because that number offends some people. While your at it please remove gnome-sword, it likely offends some non Christians to have bible study software in ports. After all in Saudi Arabia the cross is illegal, no need to risk offending. What about the hewbrew fonts? Do they also piss off Arabs? Toss those just in case. Now the Arabic fonts need tossing tool, just to be fair. -Mike FBSD has close ties with the Beastie artwork, to be sure; but saying that the designers won't stick by it when referring to artwork (rather than a work of art --- that is, the system itself) is a emotionally biased statement. Not that such is inappropriate, but to contend that FreeBSD isn't worthy to use because of contention over marketing type issues also *seems* unwise KDK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 08:01 am, you wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael C. Shultz Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:42 AM To: RacerX Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. It's important to understand that there's only 1 or 2 of the core members that have sticks up their ass about this issue. The rest of them don't understand why it's necessary to waste time or labor on this issue. The question then becomes if your a core member, are you going to bother to spend time on a logo change or not? If the 1 or 2 core members come up with a different logo, the rest of core probably isn't going to expend effort on changing the logo, and all the work to do this will rest on the shoulders of the 1 or 2 malcontents. What I think is going to end up happening if they do get a decent logo out of this contest, is that ultimately your going to see the new logo used in a few places here and there on the Internet, and your going to see beastie used at most other places. It will simply present more confusion to non-FreeBSD users if it does anything at all. Most likely it will do nothing at all, in the same way that GM for example uses multiple brands for the same iron. Ted We live in a day and age where it is politically incorrect to take pride in anything, and it shows. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 08:08 am, you wrote: Michael C. Shultz wrote: adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. -Mike For what values of it? FreeBSD is an operating system, not a logo. Most people's decision to use the OS aren't based on its mascot, I would hope. If the logo is of no importance, then why did it ever exist? FreeBSD started with this logo and needs to stick by it in my opinion. If someone comes up with a better looking beastie that is fine, to arbitrally change it after 20 years because a few people are offended shows cowardness in the face of nearly 0 diversity. If you toss beastie probably should change to change chmod 666 because that number offends some people. While your at it please remove gnome-sword, it likely offends some non Christians to have bible study software in ports. After all in Saudi Arabia the cross is illegal, no need to risk offending. What about the hewbrew fonts? Do they also piss off Arabs? Toss those just in case. Now the Arabic fonts need tossing tool, just to be fair. -Mike Oh, quit your whining. The Beastie mascot isn't going to go away. It got its start because someone (Kirk) enjoyed drawing it and used it on some stuff and people enjoyed. it. Since Kirk is very generous in his copyright terms (note, it is not owned by FreeBSD), people who enjoy it will continue to use it and make variations on it and have fun with it. People who enjoy whining about it will continue to enjoy whining about it. Such fun. There is nothing official about Beastie except that Kirk officially owns the copyright. You are making more of a religious issue out of it than even the flaming right wing fundamentalists. If someone comes up with some nice looking graphic that makes a good official logo and the FreeBSD Foundation buys it, then they will have an official logo, owned by FreeBSD. So what. Gee, maybe Kirk McKusick will design it.Anyway, a mascot isn't a logo so the mascot isn't threatened. jerry KDK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 08:43 am, you wrote: On Thursday 17 March 2005 08:08 am, you wrote: Michael C. Shultz wrote: adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. -Mike For what values of it? FreeBSD is an operating system, not a logo. Most people's decision to use the OS aren't based on its mascot, I would hope. If the logo is of no importance, then why did it ever exist? FreeBSD started with this logo and needs to stick by it in my opinion. If someone comes up with a better looking beastie that is fine, to arbitrally change it after 20 years because a few people are offended shows cowardness in the face of nearly 0 diversity. If you toss beastie probably should change to change chmod 666 because that number offends some people. While your at it please remove gnome-sword, it likely offends some non Christians to have bible study software in ports. After all in Saudi Arabia the cross is illegal, no need to risk offending. What about the hewbrew fonts? Do they also piss off Arabs? Toss those just in case. Now the Arabic fonts need tossing tool, just to be fair. -Mike Oh, quit your whining. You call it whining when I state a position that is contrary to your own? Be brave, make a counter point. People with no original ideas of their own result to insults. Surely you can rise above this sort of statement. [snipped the rest, after reading the insult lost interest in the remainer of your reply] -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
SNIP What I think is going to end up happening if they do get a decent logo out of this contest, is that ultimately your going to see the new logo used in a few places here and there on the Internet, and your going to see beastie used at most other places. It will simply present more confusion to non-FreeBSD users if it does anything at all. Most likely it will do nothing at all, in the same way that GM for example uses multiple brands for the same iron. /SNIP Personally, I find the suggestion that we remove the daemon as the logo to be religiously offensive. The gods of the old religion always become the evil of the new religion. If you're so worried about formulating a poltically correct response to the daemon, the be concerned about the politicial correctness of violing MY religious freedom. Frankly, I find that most religious people are all about removing religious references UNTIL the point at which you go to remove references to their religion. If the logo was a cross, the christians would be irate about having it removed. If the logo was star of david, the jews would be irate about having it removed. If the logo was cresent moon, the islamic element would be irate about having it removed. However, each group would rejoice if another group's icon was removed as the logo. People's arugments about what name you should call your god are the poorest excuse I've ever seen for most of the ills that befall humanity. Any right thinking individual realizes that 1) not everyone is going to agree with you and 2) true conversion does not come with the use of force. If your version of god is so totally awesome and your faith is so great in what you believe and you aren't afraid of being converted, why do you feel the need to try to supress everyone else? Now, from a marketing perspective, FreeBSD could do worse than Beastie. The fact that he is some what controversial generates a significant amount of publicity. Any marketing wonk will tell you that ANY publicity is good and free publicity is the best kind. 6 months later, people don't remember WHAT was said but they do recognize the name. All of it serves to build the brand. I see changing the logo as an act of cowardice because you are giving in to the religious right who have their own agenda which involves dominating everyone's ideas about religion. I would urge the FreeBSD community to stick to their guns and take a stand for religious freedom for everyone. You have a right to your logo. It's been your logo for 20 years and no bunch of religious bigots should be able to make you change it. I'm not saying that they have to agree with you, but they don't have the right to force you to change. 2 cents, Jimi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 09:04 am, Thompson, Jimi wrote: SNIP What I think is going to end up happening if they do get a decent logo out of this contest, is that ultimately your going to see the new logo used in a few places here and there on the Internet, and your going to see beastie used at most other places. It will simply present more confusion to non-FreeBSD users if it does anything at all. Most likely it will do nothing at all, in the same way that GM for example uses multiple brands for the same iron. /SNIP Personally, I find the suggestion that we remove the daemon as the logo to be religiously offensive. The gods of the old religion always become the evil of the new religion. If you're so worried about formulating a poltically correct response to the daemon, the be concerned about the politicial correctness of violing MY religious freedom. Frankly, I find that most religious people are all about removing religious references UNTIL the point at which you go to remove references to their religion. If the logo was a cross, the christians would be irate about having it removed. If the logo was star of david, the jews would be irate about having it removed. If the logo was cresent moon, the islamic element would be irate about having it removed. However, each group would rejoice if another group's icon was removed as the logo. People's arugments about what name you should call your god are the poorest excuse I've ever seen for most of the ills that befall humanity. Any right thinking individual realizes that 1) not everyone is going to agree with you and 2) true conversion does not come with the use of force. If your version of god is so totally awesome and your faith is so great in what you believe and you aren't afraid of being converted, why do you feel the need to try to supress everyone else? Now, from a marketing perspective, FreeBSD could do worse than Beastie. The fact that he is some what controversial generates a significant amount of publicity. Any marketing wonk will tell you that ANY publicity is good and free publicity is the best kind. 6 months later, people don't remember WHAT was said but they do recognize the name. All of it serves to build the brand. I see changing the logo as an act of cowardice because you are giving in to the religious right who have their own agenda which involves dominating everyone's ideas about religion. I would urge the FreeBSD community to stick to their guns and take a stand for religious freedom for everyone. You have a right to your logo. It's been your logo for 20 years and no bunch of religious bigots should be able to make you change it. I'm not saying that they have to agree with you, but they don't have the right to force you to change. 2 cents, Jimi Right on Jimi! -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 08:27:54AM -0800, Michael C. Shultz wrote: If you toss beastie probably should change to change chmod 666 because that number offends some people. While your at it please remove gnome-sword, it likely offends some non Christians to have bible study software in ports. After all in Saudi Arabia the cross is illegal, no need to risk offending. What about the hewbrew fonts? Do they also piss off Arabs? Toss those just in case. Now the Arabic fonts need tossing tool, just to be fair. While we're at it (even if it is OT for this thread), there's no arabtex port in the tree right now. arabtex can generate hebrew and arabic script via TeX. I'm quite curious why there's no port for it. Perhaps because of the teTeX 3 transition? Cheers, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 09:43 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 08:27:54AM -0800, Michael C. Shultz wrote: If you toss beastie probably should change to change chmod 666 because that number offends some people. While your at it please remove gnome-sword, it likely offends some non Christians to have bible study software in ports. After all in Saudi Arabia the cross is illegal, no need to risk offending. What about the hewbrew fonts? Do they also piss off Arabs? Toss those just in case. Now the Arabic fonts need tossing tool, just to be fair. While we're at it (even if it is OT for this thread), there's no arabtex port in the tree right now. arabtex can generate hebrew and arabic script via TeX. I'm quite curious why there's no port for it. Perhaps because of the teTeX 3 transition? Cheers, -cpghost. To get back OT lets hope this arabtex port is not missing because someone is offended by it. To be more serious I know ports has hebrew fonts, for example /usr/ports/hebrew/elmar-fonts/pkg-descr and /usr/ports/hebrew/culmus/pkg-descr. There are arabic fonts in /usr/ports/arabic/ About arabtex I just looked at http://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/ifi/bs/research/arab_e.html which refers you to ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/arabtex/ for download. Maybe this is a good project for some Arabic speaking person to take on? Making a port of arabtex I mean, if anyone does, be warned ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/arabtex/ seems as slow as molasses. (is that phrase offensive these days? I never can be sure any more ) -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thompson, Jimi Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:04 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt I see changing the logo as an act of cowardice because you are giving in to the religious right who have their own agenda which involves dominating everyone's ideas about religion. I would urge the FreeBSD community to stick to their guns and take a stand for religious freedom for everyone. You have a right to your logo. It's been your logo for 20 years and no bunch of religious bigots should be able to make you change it. I'm not saying that they have to agree with you, but they don't have the right to force you to change. Hi Jimi, First, if yuor a FreeBSD user it's YOUR logo too, not just mine. Second, I agree with the sentiments - which is why I do not intend to participate in the rediculous contest for a new logo which was announced here last month. I urge everyone else not to participate also. The core developers who want to change Beastie are not graphic artists, they know they aren't graphic artists, and they have never been able to come up with anything to replace beastie that looks a tenth as good. They know this which is why the put together the contest. If nobody participates in the contest then they will be back where they started from and will not have gained anything in the attempt to change beastie. If that happens not only will beastie stay but the malcontents will have gotten such a significantly embarassing and bloody nose over the affair that they will then hopefully drop this stupid and misguided campaign. Remember - these religious right politically correct types draw strength in numbers. They know they are a minority in the userbase, and so the only hope they have of winning is the following: 1) is getting a sufficient number of FreeBSD users converted over to the way they think. 2) Hiding behind the existing FreeBSD core team and making the rest of us think that the entire core team is united in wanting to toss Beastie. So far, numbers 1 and 2 aren't true, and unless the userbase starts thinking that they are, this effort will die a quiet death. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:44 AM To: Michael C. Shultz Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt Oh, quit your whining. The Beastie mascot isn't going to go away. It got its start because someone (Kirk) enjoyed drawing it and used it on some stuff and people enjoyed. it. Wrong. Use of the devil image for the logo for BSD and UNIX predates Kirk. If someone comes up with some nice looking graphic that makes a good official logo and the FreeBSD Foundation buys it, then they will have an official logo, owned by FreeBSD. So what. Gee, maybe Kirk McKusick will design it.Anyway, a mascot isn't a logo so the mascot isn't threatened. Wrong. Beastie has always been the logo. It is one of the hallmarks of the anti-beastie campaign that the anti-beastie people are now claiming that beastie was never the logo. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
- Original Message - From: Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael C. Shultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:44 AM To: Michael C. Shultz Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt Oh, quit your whining. The Beastie mascot isn't going to go away. It got its start because someone (Kirk) enjoyed drawing it and used it on some stuff and people enjoyed. it. Wrong. Use of the devil image for the logo for BSD and UNIX predates Kirk. If someone comes up with some nice looking graphic that makes a good official logo and the FreeBSD Foundation buys it, then they will have an official logo, owned by FreeBSD. So what. Gee, maybe Kirk McKusick will design it.Anyway, a mascot isn't a logo so the mascot isn't threatened. Wrong. Beastie has always been the logo. It is one of the hallmarks of the anti-beastie campaign that the anti-beastie people are now claiming that beastie was never the logo. Who claims that Beastie was never the logo? Who cares? Will the logo affect the OS? If not .. Im happy :-) T ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael C. Shultz Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:30 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt On Thursday 17 March 2005 08:01 am, you wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael C. Shultz Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:42 AM To: RacerX Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. It's important to understand that there's only 1 or 2 of the core members that have sticks up their ass about this issue. The rest of them don't understand why it's necessary to waste time or labor on this issue. The question then becomes if your a core member, are you going to bother to spend time on a logo change or not? If the 1 or 2 core members come up with a different logo, the rest of core probably isn't going to expend effort on changing the logo, and all the work to do this will rest on the shoulders of the 1 or 2 malcontents. What I think is going to end up happening if they do get a decent logo out of this contest, is that ultimately your going to see the new logo used in a few places here and there on the Internet, and your going to see beastie used at most other places. It will simply present more confusion to non-FreeBSD users if it does anything at all. Most likely it will do nothing at all, in the same way that GM for example uses multiple brands for the same iron. Ted We live in a day and age where it is politically incorrect to take pride in anything, and it shows. No, not at all. The right-wingers take lots of pride in successfully being able to destroy ANWR for example. More accurately, the United States has a political system that is suceptable to control by minorities, and every once in a while the right-wingers who are a minority in the country, manage to seize control until cooler heads prevail. We are in one of these times. Don't forget the same thing happened with Prohibition. You and I wern't alive then, but the ultraconservative christians managed to take control then also, and the result of that failed attempt was the Mafia. I am afraid that a political system where the minority never gets a chance of control is much worse than a political system where the minority gets control every once in a while. So enduring these periods of time is I am afraid, one of the payments that we must make. Also remember if you examine the core of the ultraconservative beliefs that they do not have suppression of individual liberties in those beliefs. So, any time the ultraconservatives get control they cannot help being hipocrites, and thus their movement carries with it the seeds of it's own destruction. Don't forget what took down Newt Gringrich. All ultraconservatives are hipocrites when they attempt to apply their philosophy, thus the movement carries an automatic self-limit. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
Here is my 2 cents worth...Can we please stop filling our inboxes with this A logo...a mascot...who really cares. If whoever put it there wants it there, then let them put it there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt Sent: March 17, 2005 2:15 PM To: Michael C. Shultz Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael C. Shultz Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:30 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt On Thursday 17 March 2005 08:01 am, you wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael C. Shultz Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:42 AM To: RacerX Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt adding my $0.02 to the pot I hope FreeBSD folks have more pride in their product than to allow a few malcontents cause a logo change. If bestie goes AWOL so may I. Using a product when its own designers won't stick by it seams unwise. It's important to understand that there's only 1 or 2 of the core members that have sticks up their ass about this issue. The rest of them don't understand why it's necessary to waste time or labor on this issue. The question then becomes if your a core member, are you going to bother to spend time on a logo change or not? If the 1 or 2 core members come up with a different logo, the rest of core probably isn't going to expend effort on changing the logo, and all the work to do this will rest on the shoulders of the 1 or 2 malcontents. What I think is going to end up happening if they do get a decent logo out of this contest, is that ultimately your going to see the new logo used in a few places here and there on the Internet, and your going to see beastie used at most other places. It will simply present more confusion to non-FreeBSD users if it does anything at all. Most likely it will do nothing at all, in the same way that GM for example uses multiple brands for the same iron. Ted We live in a day and age where it is politically incorrect to take pride in anything, and it shows. No, not at all. The right-wingers take lots of pride in successfully being able to destroy ANWR for example. More accurately, the United States has a political system that is suceptable to control by minorities, and every once in a while the right-wingers who are a minority in the country, manage to seize control until cooler heads prevail. We are in one of these times. Don't forget the same thing happened with Prohibition. You and I wern't alive then, but the ultraconservative christians managed to take control then also, and the result of that failed attempt was the Mafia. I am afraid that a political system where the minority never gets a chance of control is much worse than a political system where the minority gets control every once in a while. So enduring these periods of time is I am afraid, one of the payments that we must make. Also remember if you examine the core of the ultraconservative beliefs that they do not have suppression of individual liberties in those beliefs. So, any time the ultraconservatives get control they cannot help being hipocrites, and thus their movement carries with it the seeds of it's own destruction. Don't forget what took down Newt Gringrich. All ultraconservatives are hipocrites when they attempt to apply their philosophy, thus the movement carries an automatic self-limit. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Thursday 17 March 2005 11:04, Thompson, Jimi wrote: Frankly, I find that most religious people are all about removing religious references [...] baptist class=southernpolitics wing=right No. Some people are going to be a pain in the butt regardless, and they attempt to use their beliefs (or lack of beliefs) as a tool to bully others. The rest of us hate that our religion is drawn through the mud by loudmouths who claim to speak for us. I'm about as conservative as you can get, but I have a Beastie logo on my server (next to the EFF sticker). Can we drop this now? /politics/baptist -- Kirk Strauser pgpbslDuqP07Z.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
We live in a day and age where it is politically incorrect to take pride in anything, and it shows. Well, by now we are gleefully off topic for this list, so... No, not at all. The right-wingers take lots of pride in successfully being able to destroy ANWR for example. More accurately, the United States has a political system that is suceptable to control by minorities, and every once in a while the right-wingers who are a minority in the country, manage to seize control until cooler heads prevail. We are in one of these times. The USA system attempts/purports to _protect_ the minorities. This exists because supposedly the system tries to protect everyone, not specifically the minorities. It is only an artifact that sometimes minorities find themselves able to use the system to influence some outcome. They do not seize control. They wield whatever poser/influence they can muster, but they do not seize control. Don't forget the same thing happened with Prohibition. You and I wern't alive then, but the ultraconservative christians managed to take control then also, and the result of that failed attempt was the Mafia. First, that wasn't such a minority or untraconservative outcome as you might think.It had next to nothing to do with Christianity although some churches and church people got in to the fray. It was mostly more an unholy alliance of women activists and those who were discovering the concept of social engineering. It initially enjoyed widespread support -- as well as widespread grumbling. Most who apposed it, presumed they could just ignore it which is what they did. Next, it was not exactly a failure. The use of alcohol went down very significantly. Finally, it was not the Mafia that gained power, but the Chicago, Detroit and Galveston based bootlegger gangs. They weren't Mafia related for the most part and probably actually cut in to Mafia power during their brief reign. I am afraid that a political system where the minority never gets a chance of control is much worse than a political system where the minority gets control every once in a while. So enduring these periods of time is I am afraid, one of the payments that we must make. It is more that we need to discipline ourselves to protect everyone and when we begin to fail in that, some corrective events begin to happen. Some of those corrective events can actually be disastrous. Also remember if you examine the core of the ultraconservative beliefs that they do not have suppression of individual liberties in those beliefs. So, any time the ultraconservatives get control they cannot help being hipocrites, and thus their movement carries with it the seeds of it's own destruction. Don't forget what took down Newt Gringrich. All ultraconservatives are hipocrites when they attempt to apply their philosophy, thus the movement carries an automatic self-limit. Sure, each 'ultra' group contains the seeds/tools of its own destruction. So, lets leave this topic at that. Either the ultra-anti-beastie or ultra-pro-beastie movements will destroy themselves. jerry Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:44 AM To: Michael C. Shultz Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt Oh, quit your whining. The Beastie mascot isn't going to go away. It got its start because someone (Kirk) enjoyed drawing it and used it on some stuff and people enjoyed. it. Wrong. Use of the devil image for the logo for BSD and UNIX predates Kirk. Maybe, but he drew the cutest picture. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:53 AM To: Marco Greene (ML) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt Well, by now we are gleefully off topic for this list, so... Why not! ;-) The USA system attempts/purports to _protect_ the minorities. This exists because supposedly the system tries to protect everyone, not specifically the minorities. It is only an artifact that sometimes minorities find themselves able to use the system to influence some outcome. They do not seize control. They wield whatever poser/influence they can muster, but they do not seize control. What control exists, they do seize. Certainly, much of the actual control of the US system resides lower down in the food chain among the professional bureaucrats who survive administration after administration, regardless of who happens to be at the top. But, there still is a lot of real power at the top, and the people at the top are also able to make decisions that have implications that stretch far, far beyond their own brief period in power. As for example the decision to invade Iraq. Long after the Republicans are out of power, the US is still going to be involved there. Because by that time there will have been such a great loss of American life that even the strongest Democrat will not be able to pull out, because the hawks will claim that if he does he's throwing away everything that that large number of soldiers have given their lives for, and nobody will be able to survive that kind of criticism. As a result we will have permanent military bases there. And as a result we will have to keep going back in there year after year whenever the population there (who really does not want bases) manages to get a strong enough government in place that can threaten those bases existence. And also, Saudi Arabia wants us in there because that way we will control oil production, and thus not destroy OPEC's power. Iraq is the only country in the world that has the oil reserves large enough to destroy OPEC if they wished, and OPEC is Saudi Arabia's child. And independent Iraq with it's own government has always been a threat to OPEC and now that is gone. And because of all of this, our Energy policy has been permanently altered to be oil-based. We will never be able to return to conservation, solar, geothermal and so on. The dial has been stuck on Oil and will remain there until all oil reserves in Saudia Arabia and Iraq have been completely tapped out. And because of that, American soldiers will continue to die over there until that happens in maybe a century or so. And this is -exactly- what the ultraconservatives want. They wanted a US that is the world's policeman with an economy that supports a tremendous military-industrial complex, and that is what they got. Next, it was not exactly a failure. The use of alcohol went down very significantly. We don't really have any way of knowing that because none of this stuff was tracked, as it was illegal. And you might consider too that a still isn't practical in a densely populated area, it is likely that out West where the population density was much lower, that they were far more common than anyone would believe. Sure, each 'ultra' group contains the seeds/tools of its own destruction. No, not true. The Amish for example are definitely an off-the-bend ultra group, but they have a consistent internal philosophy, and the way they apply their philosophy is non hypocritical, thus they survive. The Quakers, the super-Mormons, even the survivalists, there are many of these out-in-left-field groups that are non-hypocritical in the application end. As a result they don't carry the seeds of their own destruction. Rather, there are other reasons that they can never grow beyond a small minority. There's plenty of stuff that you can fault the ultraliberals for, (stupidity, no common sense) but hypocrisy is not one of them. That particular problem is a speciality of the ultraconservatives. So, lets leave this topic at that. Either the ultra-anti-beastie or ultra-pro-beastie movements will destroy themselves. The ultra-pro-beastie movement is defined as the status quo, so it's impossible for it to destroy itself (except perhaps by apathy) Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
Svein Halvor Halvorsen wrote: [...] It's all about what connotation you put on the word. E.g. to make a file world read-writable you would type chmod 666 file. Ah, but you are talking in octal! % perl -le 'print oct 666' 438 No evil here :) Even though the number 666 is the number of the devil, the number itself is not evil. Just as little as the command is evil, or someone who types it. It's just a number. Put whatever meaning into it you like! Q.E.D. (my apologies for keeping such a silly thread alive) ObTopic: I think the OP was quite within his/her rights about wanting to disable the ASCII-art da?emon, yet wishing to continue to use FreeBSD. I find it pretty silly myself. I also note that FreeBSD understands 'tail -100 -F' and Linux (gnu fileutils?) doesn't. The devil is in the details, as it were. A chorus of reformat your disk and use something else you lowlife moron without a sense of humour does little to advance the cause. David ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
You shouldn't use FreeBSD then, it is full of evil demons that will take over your system on the first chance they get.. :) Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
You shouldn't use FreeBSD then, it is full of evil demons that will take over your system on the first chance they get.. :) No, that's not very helpful response. If a person has this much difficulty understanding things and assuming religious significance where there is none, then he already has enough problems and doesn't need your ridicule. So, just have patience and even though it is a frequent repeat, help him remove the bits of graphics he doesn't like. You would do the same if it was some other splash screen, so don't you make it a religious issue yourself in refusing to treat it just like any other similar bit of graphics or text. jerry Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stupid ASCII loader prompt
hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 05:06:40AM -0500, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional I don't see much difference between seeing a giant daemon, a giant window, and a giant apple on startup. 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world It's not a demon, but a daemon. 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah All my friends think it's so much cooler than that penguin they used to see. All that aside, I think putting beastie_disable=YES in /boot/loader.conf will do the trick. somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Bluescreen. Bluescreen leads to downtime. Downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the darkside. Powerful Unix is. Public Key: ftp://ftp.tallye.com/pub/lorenl_pubkey.asc Fingerprint: CEE1 AAE2 F66C 59B5 34CA C415 6D35 E847 0118 A3D2 pgp7dMP90u3ee.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
Thank you!
I don't see much difference between seeing a giant daemon, a giant window,
and a giant apple on startup.
Like the words of a blind man.
It's not a demon, but a daemon.
demon
n 1: one of the evil spirits of traditional Jewish and Christian
belief [syn: {devil}, {fiend}, {daemon}, {daimon}]
All my friends think it's so much cooler than that penguin they used to
see.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
All that aside, I think putting beastie_disable=YES in
/boot/loader.conf will do the trick.
Excellent! THANK YOU! :)
Such a thing cannot be centralized to rc.conf instead?
Thanks,
-- Fafa
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Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 05:06:40 -0500, Fafa Diliha Romanova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world tooo late...by using FreeBSD you've already invited evil into your world...:)) check this link to see the bad thing you did http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html 3. it's bad for my image too, when other people see it, they laugh and go: is THAT your supersystem? blah somebody please tell me, how do i remove it? the best solution is to use fdisk... i don't want anything to do with it. thanks, -- fafa -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
* Fafa Diliha Romanova [2005-03-13 05:41 -0500]
It's not a demon, but a daemon.
demon
n 1: one of the evil spirits of traditional Jewish and Christian
belief [syn: {devil}, {fiend}, {daemon}, {daimon}]
Firstly, I'd like to say that you of course are free to remove the devil
if it offends you. But that beeing said; the fact that the word deamon
(or demon for that matter) is used in some contexts to mean something
evil, does not necessarily make the word (or the image of it) evil too.
It's all about what connotation you put on the word.
E.g. to make a file world read-writable you would type chmod 666 file.
Even though the number 666 is the number of the devil, the number itself
is not evil. Just as little as the command is evil, or someone who types
it. It's just a number. Put whatever meaning into it you like!
(If, on the other hand, you would put the number inside a pentagram
written in blood on some dark stone alter, I would not think the number
was meant to be harmless by the writer.)
Originally daemon just meant something like spirit. Then it became a
certain kind (an evil one) of spirit in some religions. In other places
and other contexts (i.e. the FreeBSD community, et.al) that transformation
does however not hold true! This makes it irrelevant to bring up these
dictionary definitions, as they both are all equally true and false. The
dictionary does not define a language, it describes it's use. If deamon
in some groups is used to mean evil spirit, while in others to mean
spirit as in servant, they are both true!
However, noone can deny the fact that Beastie *could* be interpreted as an
image of something evil, and that it often does. One should therefore be
careful when using the Beastie before an audience you don't know.
(That beeing said, one could never be guaranteed not to offend anyone. The
apple could easily be thought of as a symbol of the original sin. And the
window I'm sure could also be interpreted in some way that would offend
someone. This is especially true for words and names, where a word could
means something completely different in two languages.)
Svein Halvor
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Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
Svein Halvor Halvorsen wrote:
* Fafa Diliha Romanova [2005-03-13 05:41 -0500]
It's not a demon, but a daemon.
demon
n 1: one of the evil spirits of traditional Jewish and Christian
belief [syn: {devil}, {fiend}, {daemon}, {daimon}
Now, look up Daemon on the same site you used for demon.
Surmised:
Disk And Execution MONitor
Now know it off or I'll summon the evil daemon, Beastie, to rape and
pilfer your disk drive.
/Sarcasm
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Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:06, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world What is the daemon doing to that funny penguin? http://gbraad.spotsnel.nl/images/takeittux.png -- The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. - Vinod Vallopillil http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween4.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
Luyt wrote: On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:06, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world What is the daemon doing to that funny penguin? http://gbraad.spotsnel.nl/images/takeittux.png If Fafa is so put out about the Daemon, then Fafa, you are free to use another OS. Don't go on a wholier then thou crusade and change something that YOU take offense to. We have a saying here in the States, if you don't like whats on the TV or radio, you are free to change the statrion. Do not change the format because you take issue with it, YOU change to something that suits your likes. Now as to the above link - Was that really needed? -- Best regards, Chris PGP Fingerprint = D976 2575 D0B4 E4B0 45CC AA09 0F93 FF80 C01B C363 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 04:47:17PM +0100, Luyt wrote: On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:06, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: 2. having that demon in there, it invites evil into my world What is the daemon doing to that funny penguin? http://gbraad.spotsnel.nl/images/takeittux.png I don't think that things like this really reflect the good side of the BSD community. Though I think there's at least as much, if not more coming from the Linux community, we don't need to do it. -- The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. - Vinod Vallopillil http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween4.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Bluescreen. Bluescreen leads to downtime. Downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the darkside. Powerful Unix is. Public Key: ftp://ftp.tallye.com/pub/lorenl_pubkey.asc Fingerprint: CEE1 AAE2 F66C 59B5 34CA C415 6D35 E847 0118 A3D2 pgpCAPLg8fTQ7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stupid ASCII loader prompt
At 5:06 AM -0500 3/13/05, Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote: hello i find that loader prompt very frustrating: 1. it is *VERY* unprofessional For what it's worth, the default for displaying that image has changed for freebsd 6.x. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn= [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
