Re: UPS question
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 323, Issue 9, Message: 3 On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:18:01 -0500 Ryan Coleman ryan.cole...@cwis.biz wrote: On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. Meaning that my 2-minute window is unusually long? If the UPS can support the system for 12 minutes, I say give it 20% of the life of the support because our power outages here are usually spikes that kill my current web server (but amazingly *not* my file server). In fact, one of those power fluxes occurred last night. I love storms for the light shows, but hate them for the toll they take on my servers. Indeed. Ryan, I'm coming in late but I've read the whole thread, after many people have added useful insights. However I must question your initial power estimate for this server; in your first post you said (cutting a bit): I am looking at a 1400VA / 980W UPS to run a single server with a usually not on monitor, a DSL modem and a simple switch. The server should generate about 330W in power consumption, the monitor another 50-100, the modem about 10 and the switch about another 10 watts. So: UPS: 1400VA Server: 400W (liberal estimate) Modem: 10W Switch: 10W Monitor: 75W Total: 495W First, forget the monitor. You said it's usually off anyway, as you'd expect on a server. Plug it into the mains directly as needed, not on the UPS. Or at least use DPMS to suspend it after a minute or so idle. Secondly, get a power meter and actually measure your server running. Unless it's a real monster, it will likely draw less than 200W in normal use, possibly much less if using powerd to moderate CPU speed by load. So I suspect you may get something like 5 times the full-load rated time out of your 1400VA UPS, maybe 20-25 minutes or so. 5 minutes should be a comfortable runtime, to shut it down with 70-80% capacity remaining. Thirdly, I'll second using another UPS (eg 300VA units are cheap) for powering other than your server. That way you can use features of your software (eg NUT) to properly signal the UPS to shutdown (irrevocably) just after your server shuts down, to get proper resumption when power returns. Should you get multiple successive on-battery then on-mains events, good UPSs will delay restarting until there's enough capacity to run another cycle, which time may be tunable for your requirements. Additionally I spent $34 on a video card today that reduces my power consumption by 150Watts, resulting in a $13 per month savings in my powerbill - in MN we have a fixed-rate utility fee structure per season (winter power costs less than summer, I believe, for whatever reason) and a $10 mail-in rebate on the card means I will be turning a net profit in 2 months! -- Ryan Sorry, I don't get why you'd run a video card using in excess of 150W on any server? Or is that for your hot gaming box? :) cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
Just going to reply to this one bit for now: The computer used to be a gaming computer, converted this past fall into a file server when I lacked time to play any games in a year. Additionally I spent $34 on a video card today that reduces my power consumption by 150Watts, resulting in a $13 per month savings in my powerbill - in MN we have a fixed-rate utility fee structure per season (winter power costs less than summer, I believe, for whatever reason) and a $10 mail-in rebate on the card means I will be turning a net profit in 2 months! -- Ryan Sorry, I don't get why you'd run a video card using in excess of 150W on any server? Or is that for your hot gaming box? :) cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Thu, August 12, 2010 8:14 pm, Al Plant wrote: #3. Thats why setting the bios not to self boot would work. (Stopping the bios from turning the server on after an outage.) Someone would have to check the power status manually before throwing the switch manually to make it come up after power has been restored. Also turning servers and some desktops off and on is many cases a bad idea. Yeah, that's why I prefaced my original misgivings by asking if this was an unattended system. If someone will be around to push the button, there's no need to worry about bringing the system back up automatically. But if someone's going to have to drive 50 miles on a weekend to do it, automatic start-up is a good idea. ;) Where I work we have most of our systems set to *not* power back up after an outage. This is deliberate; I can't guarantee that the air conditioners will come back on when power is restored, so I need to manually verify that they're working before all that heat-generating equipment is powered back on. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Wed, August 11, 2010 1:18 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. Meaning that my 2-minute window is unusually long? If the UPS can support the system for 12 minutes, I say give it 20% of the life of the support because our power outages here are usually spikes that kill my current web server (but amazingly *not* my file server). In fact, one of those power fluxes occurred last night. I love storms for the light shows, but hate them for the toll they take on my servers. Nope, 2 minutes is fine, maybe even short depending on how long your system takes to shut down. What I'm asking about is this scenario: 1. Power goes out. 2. Server shuts itself down after 2 minutes. 3. Power comes back on before the UPS batteries are exhausted. The server never sees a power cycle, so it doesn't boot itself back up until someone physically goes and pushes the button. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Aug 11, 2010, at 6:01 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 1:18 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. Meaning that my 2-minute window is unusually long? If the UPS can support the system for 12 minutes, I say give it 20% of the life of the support because our power outages here are usually spikes that kill my current web server (but amazingly *not* my file server). In fact, one of those power fluxes occurred last night. I love storms for the light shows, but hate them for the toll they take on my servers. Nope, 2 minutes is fine, maybe even short depending on how long your system takes to shut down. What I'm asking about is this scenario: 1. Power goes out. 2. Server shuts itself down after 2 minutes. 3. Power comes back on before the UPS batteries are exhausted. The server never sees a power cycle, so it doesn't boot itself back up until someone physically goes and pushes the button. Good points. I just want to make sure it has a safe shutdown (the usual reason for a UPS) but it will be set with a BIOS turn on time if it is not on. This is for a mirrored archive that updates overnight. If it is in the middle of the process it will kill and shut off. Most power outages in my area are 1) during the hottest days of the summer - like today and 2) last less than 60 seconds. It's biggest draw is to give it a steady stream of power. -- Ryan___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
Oliver Fromme wrote: Ryan Coleman ryan.cole...@cwis.biz wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. That W and VA numbers of the UPS are pretty much irrelevant, because they tell nothing about the capacity of the battery. Those numbers only give an upper limit on the power that the UPS can handle (i.e. you cannot connect devices totalling 800 W to a 500 W UPS, for example). In order to be able to estimate how long the UPS can power wattage, you need to know the capacity of the battery. The capacity is usually given in Ah units (Ampere hours). For example, a battery with 10 Ah capacity can deliver 10 Ampere for 1 hour, or 20 Ampere for 30 minutes, or 30 Ampere for 20 Minutes ... and so on. At a typical battery voltage of 12 V, 30 A would be 360 W. So, theoretically a 10 Ah battery would be able to hold devices that use 360 W for about 20 Minutes. In practice it will be less because no UPS has 100% efficiency. Best regards Oliver Another often overlooked detail is how long the battery will last. These amp-hour figures are all for new batteries, and the number of discharge/charge cycles has some effect over time as well. Generally speaking when a UPS just sits there and does very little the batteries are like new for the first two years. Somewhere into year 3 they begin to nose over the derating curve. So at year 3.75 they will have signifigantly less full power runtime than when new. The quality of manufacture for the batteries controls this, for example with lead-acid how much metal goes into the plates. I admit to being bitten a time or two: There is a certain tendency to put the UPS in the rack and walk away and forget all about it. I've learned the hard way to keep records so I can replace weak batteries in a timely fashion. Or this happens: But that server should have been able to stay up 20 minutes instead of crashing at 7 minutes... -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 1:18 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. Meaning that my 2-minute window is unusually long? If the UPS can support the system for 12 minutes, I say give it 20% of the life of the support because our power outages here are usually spikes that kill my current web server (but amazingly *not* my file server). In fact, one of those power fluxes occurred last night. I love storms for the light shows, but hate them for the toll they take on my servers. Nope, 2 minutes is fine, maybe even short depending on how long your system takes to shut down. What I'm asking about is this scenario: 1. Power goes out. 2. Server shuts itself down after 2 minutes. 3. Power comes back on before the UPS batteries are exhausted. The server never sees a power cycle, so it doesn't boot itself back up until someone physically goes and pushes the button. ## I have had these power dips and surges here in Hawaii. I have installed UPS power from two stationary batters that will run the servers for 12 hours. We have experienced extensive outages in the past and this was our only solution. Surges are almost impossible to stop. I have them jump cross a surge protector. I have recently had several UPS Desktop backups fail from a surge and then a drop below 70 v. This caused the UPS to have the charging diodes blow. It was cheaper to replace the UPS 's than to repair them. #3. The motherboard bios can be set to stop a server from self booting from a power outage. ~Al Plant - Honolulu, Hawaii - Phone: 808-284-2740 + http://hawaiidakine.com + http://freebsdinfo.org + + http://aloha50.net - Supporting - FreeBSD 7.2 - 8.0 - 9* + email: n...@hdk5.net All that's really worth doing is what we do for others.- Lewis Carrol ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Aug 12, 2010, at 12:52 PM, Al Plant wrote: David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 1:18 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. Meaning that my 2-minute window is unusually long? If the UPS can support the system for 12 minutes, I say give it 20% of the life of the support because our power outages here are usually spikes that kill my current web server (but amazingly *not* my file server). In fact, one of those power fluxes occurred last night. I love storms for the light shows, but hate them for the toll they take on my servers. Nope, 2 minutes is fine, maybe even short depending on how long your system takes to shut down. What I'm asking about is this scenario: 1. Power goes out. 2. Server shuts itself down after 2 minutes. 3. Power comes back on before the UPS batteries are exhausted. The server never sees a power cycle, so it doesn't boot itself back up until someone physically goes and pushes the button. ## I have had these power dips and surges here in Hawaii. I have installed UPS power from two stationary batters that will run the servers for 12 hours. We have experienced extensive outages in the past and this was our only solution. Surges are almost impossible to stop. I have them jump cross a surge protector. I have recently had several UPS Desktop backups fail from a surge and then a drop below 70 v. This caused the UPS to have the charging diodes blow. It was cheaper to replace the UPS 's than to repair them. #3. The motherboard bios can be set to stop a server from self booting from a power outage. Yes. The downside comes from when the BIOS is told to turn on the server at, say, 10pm and the power is still out... it starts the process and runs out of battery mid-way through the boot before it gets the chance to load the UPS controller. -- Ryan___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Aug 12, 2010, at 12:40 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Yes. The downside comes from when the BIOS is told to turn on the server at, say, 10pm and the power is still out... it starts the process and runs out of battery mid-way through the boot before it gets the chance to load the UPS controller. You may want to think about using two UPS units -- a large one for your server, and a smaller one for your network stack. This way you can use UPS monitoring software (like NUT or PowerChute) to have the server command its UPS to switch off when it's fully shut down. Then when power comes back the server UPS will switch back on and the server will boot back up, assuming you've set the BIOS to boot up on power recovery. Some UPS units have the ability to set a power recovery delay to ensure the battery has some charge before the server starts up, too. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Aug 12, 2010, at 2:49 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Aug 12, 2010, at 12:40 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Yes. The downside comes from when the BIOS is told to turn on the server at, say, 10pm and the power is still out... it starts the process and runs out of battery mid-way through the boot before it gets the chance to load the UPS controller. You may want to think about using two UPS units -- a large one for your server, and a smaller one for your network stack. This way you can use UPS monitoring software (like NUT or PowerChute) to have the server command its UPS to switch off when it's fully shut down. Then when power comes back the server UPS will switch back on and the server will boot back up, assuming you've set the BIOS to boot up on power recovery. Some UPS units have the ability to set a power recovery delay to ensure the battery has some charge before the server starts up, too. Great idea, I'll definitely keep that in mind. -- Ryan___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
Ryan Coleman wrote: On Aug 12, 2010, at 12:52 PM, Al Plant wrote: David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 1:18 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. Meaning that my 2-minute window is unusually long? If the UPS can support the system for 12 minutes, I say give it 20% of the life of the support because our power outages here are usually spikes that kill my current web server (but amazingly *not* my file server). In fact, one of those power fluxes occurred last night. I love storms for the light shows, but hate them for the toll they take on my servers. Nope, 2 minutes is fine, maybe even short depending on how long your system takes to shut down. What I'm asking about is this scenario: 1. Power goes out. 2. Server shuts itself down after 2 minutes. 3. Power comes back on before the UPS batteries are exhausted. The server never sees a power cycle, so it doesn't boot itself back up until someone physically goes and pushes the button. ## I have had these power dips and surges here in Hawaii. I have installed UPS power from two stationary batters that will run the servers for 12 hours. We have experienced extensive outages in the past and this was our only solution. Surges are almost impossible to stop. I have them jump cross a surge protector. I have recently had several UPS Desktop backups fail from a surge and then a drop below 70 v. This caused the UPS to have the charging diodes blow. It was cheaper to replace the UPS 's than to repair them. #3. The motherboard bios can be set to stop a server from self booting from a power outage. Yes. The downside comes from when the BIOS is told to turn on the server at, say, 10pm and the power is still out... it starts the process and runs out of battery mid-way through the boot before it gets the chance to load the UPS controller. #3. Thats why setting the bios not to self boot would work. (Stopping the bios from turning the server on after an outage.) Someone would have to check the power status manually before throwing the switch manually to make it come up after power has been restored. Also turning servers and some desktops off and on is many cases a bad idea. Example: I was called out today to look at a desktop that was turned off while the user went away for a month. It did not survive the turn on. Corrosion took its toll on the mobo and fans. The humidity was the cause. No humidity in the case when the unit is on and fans (3 of them) are working. Hope you can solve your problem. -- ~Al Plant - Honolulu, Hawaii - Phone: 808-284-2740 + http://hawaiidakine.com + http://freebsdinfo.org + + http://aloha50.net - Supporting - FreeBSD 7.2 - 8.0 - 9* + email: n...@hdk5.net All that's really worth doing is what we do for others.- Lewis Carrol ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
UPS question
I know that APC's website states this load on this unit results in this runtime. However I do not trust these figures, typically, when coming from smaller manufacturers than APC. I am looking at a 1400VA / 980W UPS to run a single server with a usually not on monitor, a DSL modem and a simple switch. The server should generate about 330W in power consumption, the monitor another 50-100, the modem about 10 and the switch about another 10 watts. So: UPS: 1400VA Server: 400W (liberal estimate) Modem: 10W Switch: 10W Monitor: 75W Total: 495W According to a calculator if I enter all that information: http://www.csgnetwork.com/upssizecalc.html It says that it will use 693VA. Enter that into http://www.csgnetwork.com/batterylifecalc.html It requires Amps... 495W / 120 voltage = 4.125 amps... doesn't seem right but... 192 hours... that's not right, right? -- Ryan___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
Hi, Ryan-- On Aug 11, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Total: 495W According to a calculator if I enter all that information: http://www.csgnetwork.com/upssizecalc.html It says that it will use 693VA. That sounds reasonable. The better PSUs have 80 Plus certification for efficiency, and that's better than the typical wall warts used for modems and switches and the like commonly manage. (The efficiency they're assuming is a bit over 70%; using 80% would be around 600VA.) Enter that into http://www.csgnetwork.com/batterylifecalc.html It requires Amps... 495W / 120 voltage = 4.125 amps... doesn't seem right but... 192 hours... that's not right, right? Assume for discussion their number was right. In order to get 495W of output load, the UPS needs to provide 693 volt-amps of juice to your equipment. After the inverter and 10:1 stepup transformer used to convert 12VDC or whatever the UPS batteries are charged to up to 120VAC, the current needed would be 5.77 amps. However, the 12VDC battery source itself would be getting a draw of 57 amps (ideally; again, the inverter+transformer themselves might only rate about 90% efficiency for very good quality UPS, so would be drawing more like 60 or 65 amps). A standard APC/Tripplite/whatever 700VA UPS tend so have a lead-acid battery reasonably similar to a car battery, and typically will have around 100 amp-hours of charge; they'd probably give you 90 minutes of backup time. But you can look up the detailed specs of specific models and work from their amp-hour (or watt-hour) ratings-- actually, I think I'm guestimating more from what a 1200VA unit might provide, and a 700VA model is probably going to provide more like 40-60 minutes of power... Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
Thanks, Chuck. I talked with a former colleague that has a lot of experience in specing out UPS requirements (between battery-ready and generator-ready backups at the office they have up to 5 minutes of battery backup before the gas generator is needed with a 128-hour recharge time just to support their servers and wiring racks in the office). He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. Now I need to build a server (looking at RAID5 8x2TB) for less than $1600 w/o a CPU if I can... a local custom builder quoted me $4000 today for a full system inc. CPU, RAM and DVD. -- Ryan On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:44 AM, Chuck Swiger wrote: Hi, Ryan-- On Aug 11, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Total: 495W According to a calculator if I enter all that information: http://www.csgnetwork.com/upssizecalc.html It says that it will use 693VA. That sounds reasonable. The better PSUs have 80 Plus certification for efficiency, and that's better than the typical wall warts used for modems and switches and the like commonly manage. (The efficiency they're assuming is a bit over 70%; using 80% would be around 600VA.) Enter that into http://www.csgnetwork.com/batterylifecalc.html It requires Amps... 495W / 120 voltage = 4.125 amps... doesn't seem right but... 192 hours... that's not right, right? Assume for discussion their number was right. In order to get 495W of output load, the UPS needs to provide 693 volt-amps of juice to your equipment. After the inverter and 10:1 stepup transformer used to convert 12VDC or whatever the UPS batteries are charged to up to 120VAC, the current needed would be 5.77 amps. However, the 12VDC battery source itself would be getting a draw of 57 amps (ideally; again, the inverter+transformer themselves might only rate about 90% efficiency for very good quality UPS, so would be drawing more like 60 or 65 amps). A standard APC/Tripplite/whatever 700VA UPS tend so have a lead-acid battery reasonably similar to a car battery, and typically will have around 100 amp-hours of charge; they'd probably give you 90 minutes of backup time. But you can look up the detailed specs of specific models and work from their amp-hour (or watt-hour) ratings-- actually, I think I'm guestimating more from what a 1200VA unit might provide, and a 700VA model is probably going to provide more like 40-60 minutes of power... Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: On Wed, August 11, 2010 12:25 pm, Ryan Coleman wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. My consideration is, then, give the server 2 minutes on battery. If full power has not been returned, shut down the server but leave the modem (w/ wireless) and switch running with power for up to 6 hours. A bit of advice: If this is an unattended system, give some thought to how you will boot the server back up if the outage is longer than two minutes but shorter than six hours. Most UPS installations have *some* kind of race condition issue if power comes back after the servers have begun a shutdown, but in your case it's an unusually long window. Meaning that my 2-minute window is unusually long? If the UPS can support the system for 12 minutes, I say give it 20% of the life of the support because our power outages here are usually spikes that kill my current web server (but amazingly *not* my file server). In fact, one of those power fluxes occurred last night. I love storms for the light shows, but hate them for the toll they take on my servers. Additionally I spent $34 on a video card today that reduces my power consumption by 150Watts, resulting in a $13 per month savings in my powerbill - in MN we have a fixed-rate utility fee structure per season (winter power costs less than summer, I believe, for whatever reason) and a $10 mail-in rebate on the card means I will be turning a net profit in 2 months! -- Ryan___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UPS question
Ryan Coleman ryan.cole...@cwis.biz wrote: He thinks that at 500W needed it would give me about 12 minutes on a 1400VA. That W and VA numbers of the UPS are pretty much irrelevant, because they tell nothing about the capacity of the battery. Those numbers only give an upper limit on the power that the UPS can handle (i.e. you cannot connect devices totalling 800 W to a 500 W UPS, for example). In order to be able to estimate how long the UPS can power wattage, you need to know the capacity of the battery. The capacity is usually given in Ah units (Ampere hours). For example, a battery with 10 Ah capacity can deliver 10 Ampere for 1 hour, or 20 Ampere for 30 minutes, or 30 Ampere for 20 Minutes ... and so on. At a typical battery voltage of 12 V, 30 A would be 360 W. So, theoretically a 10 Ah battery would be able to hold devices that use 360 W for about 20 Minutes. In practice it will be less because no UPS has 100% efficiency. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Passwords are like underwear. You don't share them, you don't hang them on your monitor or under your keyboard, you don't email them, or put them on a web site, and you must change them very often. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
APC UPS question
I'm in the market for a UPS that works with FreeBSD. Does anyone know if the APC Back-UPS Pro 280VA Just Works with FreeBSD 4-STABLE and apcupsd? As far as I can tell apcupsd support for usb on FreeBSD is not reliable, but this one's serial and affordable but I'd like to know if it works before I buy. Thanks. -- We all enter this world in the same way: naked, screaming, and soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there. -- Dana Gould ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: APC UPS question
I have a backups 280 and there is no serial port on it. Are you sure your looking at the right thing? In any case a 280 is barely enough to keep a PC powered much less a PC and monitor. I use mine for my DSL modem and DSL router. There's lots of SmartUPS 450 UPSs on Ebay. Find one that the seller isn't claiming that he has 'refurbished' with new batteries. Buy it and when it arrives just buy new batteries from any electrical store and give them your old ones. (since it's going to be a given that the batteries will be toasted no matter what the seller claims) APS themselves also sells refurbs off their website. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Navarre Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: APC UPS question I'm in the market for a UPS that works with FreeBSD. Does anyone know if the APC Back-UPS Pro 280VA Just Works with FreeBSD 4-STABLE and apcupsd? As far as I can tell apcupsd support for usb on FreeBSD is not reliable, but this one's serial and affordable but I'd like to know if it works before I buy. Thanks. -- We all enter this world in the same way: naked, screaming, and soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there. -- Dana Gould ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: APC UPS question
http://buy.apc.com/commerce/storefronts/factoryoutlet/default.asp Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: I have a backups 280 and there is no serial port on it. Are you sure your looking at the right thing? In any case a 280 is barely enough to keep a PC powered much less a PC and monitor. I use mine for my DSL modem and DSL router. There's lots of SmartUPS 450 UPSs on Ebay. Find one that the seller isn't claiming that he has 'refurbished' with new batteries. Buy it and when it arrives just buy new batteries from any electrical store and give them your old ones. (since it's going to be a given that the batteries will be toasted no matter what the seller claims) APS themselves also sells refurbs off their website. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Navarre Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: APC UPS question I'm in the market for a UPS that works with FreeBSD. Does anyone know if the APC Back-UPS Pro 280VA Just Works with FreeBSD 4-STABLE and apcupsd? As far as I can tell apcupsd support for usb on FreeBSD is not reliable, but this one's serial and affordable but I'd like to know if it works before I buy. Thanks. -- We all enter this world in the same way: naked, screaming, and soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there. -- Dana Gould ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: APC UPS question
I have purchased a few APC Ups's from a vendor on Ebay. Wonderful to work with. a few weeks ago the UPS I purchased about 1 and a half years ago had a electrical problem and the ups failed. He sent me another unit and it arrived in just a few days. I Paid $179 for a APC Smart 1400 RM UPS. I currently have 3 servers attached to it with my various other routers and it will run for about 20 or 30 minutes. With only 1 server it will run for almost 90 minutes or so. He sends out NEW batteries with the unit's... http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZupspowerQQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1 already i see he has a few Net UPS 650's for $79 or a Smart UPS 700 for $100 On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:05:32 -0700, Matt Navarre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in the market for a UPS that works with FreeBSD. Does anyone know if the APC Back-UPS Pro 280VA Just Works with FreeBSD 4-STABLE and apcupsd? As far as I can tell apcupsd support for usb on FreeBSD is not reliable, but this one's serial and affordable but I'd like to know if it works before I buy. Thanks. -- We all enter this world in the same way: naked, screaming, and soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there. -- Dana Gould ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: APC UPS question
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I have a backups 280 and there is no serial port on it. Are you sure your looking at the right thing? I believe they have the BackUPS _Pro_ 280, the larger brothers (420 and 650) of which are sitting two feet behind me. Both have serial ports only. (They are 5+ years old.) Robert Huff ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: APC UPS question
On Thursday 21 October 2004 07:35, Robert Huff wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I have a backups 280 and there is no serial port on it. Are you sure your looking at the right thing? I believe they have the BackUPS _Pro_ 280, the larger brothers (420 and 650) of which are sitting two feet behind me. Both have serial ports only. (They are 5+ years old.) Robert Huff Does the 650 work well with FreeBSD? I can get a refurb 650 from APC for the same price as I can find the 280. -- We all enter this world in the same way: naked, screaming, and soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there. -- Dana Gould ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: APC UPS question
they all use the same protocol, the difference is between the smart ups and the backups. all smartups use one protocol all backups use another. The very newest ones with usb and such might have changed this, I don't know. incidentally with the smartups you can query the ups for the amount of runtime left so you know how much life is left in the battery, the ups self-tests this periodically and you can send a command to it to do this. Very useful. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Navarre Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Robert Huff Subject: Re: APC UPS question On Thursday 21 October 2004 07:35, Robert Huff wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I have a backups 280 and there is no serial port on it. Are you sure your looking at the right thing? I believe they have the BackUPS _Pro_ 280, the larger brothers (420 and 650) of which are sitting two feet behind me. Both have serial ports only. (They are 5+ years old.) Robert Huff Does the 650 work well with FreeBSD? I can get a refurb 650 from APC for the same price as I can find the 280. -- We all enter this world in the same way: naked, screaming, and soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there. -- Dana Gould ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: APC UPS question
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: incidentally with the smartups you can query the ups for the amount of runtime left so you know how much life is left in the battery, the ups self-tests this periodically and you can send a command to it to do this. Very useful. That's also true for the BackUPS Pro providing you get the right cable (I used the -0095A) and the right software (PowerChute Personal Edition (Windows) or apcupsd (FreeBSD)). Robert Huff ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: APC UPS question
Matt Navarre writes: I believe they have the BackUPS _Pro_ 280, the larger brothers (420 and 650) of which are sitting two feet behind me. Both have serial ports only. (They are 5+ years old.) Does the 650 work well with FreeBSD? I can get a refurb 650 from APC for the same price as I can find the 280. It worked well for many years, then died within the 3 months. It's sitting on my parts shelf in the hope I have an excuse to make a trip to Rhode Island soon. (I replaced the battery within the last year, and would like to get the electronics refurbed.) Robert Huff ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
