Re: freebsd curiosity
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, James Hicks wrote: require any kind of defrag? I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? of the 3 or 4 linux distros I have experience with, one 1 has not required me to manually add a device driver or two. despite the lack of prettyness of freebsd's installer, I find freebsd to be by far quicker and easier to install. I have also found that freebsd's ports are easier to install and maintain that linux's rpms. to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks you aren't really going to get a truly partial answer to that question on this mailing list, I think just about everyone will tell you that freebsd wins in the stability department. but in all my dealings with linux, i never once heard someone say linux was more stable than freebsd :) erik To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: freebsd curiosity
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2003-01-09 21:26:10 -0800:
I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines like pcmagazine and
sought info online using sources like the freebsd homepage, zdnet,
cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few questions
about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm
asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone
just like linux is?
I'm not competent enough to give you an answer, so here's an url:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/explaining-bsd/
Second, what type of file system does it use?
ufs/ffs. i'm a bit confused as to which name is right, and I see
both names used.
the documentation is the canonical source of course:
/usr/share/doc/smm/05.fastfs/paper.ascii.gz
Does it have a journaling one like ext3?
ufs has a feature called Soft Updates, which should get you the
same result by different means.
I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition
trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed?
FreeBSD itself has no problems with hardware recognition. There
might not be a driver for your hardware, though. :)
Seriously, though: some hardware vendors are more likely to create
GPL'd drivers for their products, thinking along the lines of if I
have to give up the knowledge of this portion of my stuff, no one
else will make money from it either. Think nVidia.
I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting
mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use
freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has?
Quite a few people will say: stability; I say: bloat. But some
sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on anything
but Solaris. It's mostly what you know: the best OS in the world is
worthless if you can't administer it.
Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better
stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply.
yes, but what I believe is irrelevant.
also, keep in mind that we're talking about the operating system,
which I here define as the kernel plus supporting programs; IOW the
stuff that you can get from the FreeBSD CVS repository. you might
find that an application critical for you is unstable or displays
unusual quirks on anything but linux because it does not get enough
testing on other unices.
This, unfortunately for quite a few people (that now covers even my
mother and me as I have installed FreeBSD on her computer), covers
KDE, OpenOffice, and lots of other, office-oriented software.
Vietse Venema uses BSD unices as the primary development platforms.
DJB's site runs on {Open,Free}BSD. Seems he's had bad luck with
OpenBSD, see http://cr.yp.to/.
It is my understanding that FreeBSD is the primary development
platform for Apache, but given how many platforms it runs on, this
is not really important. The Apache Software Foundation uses FreeBSD
for their servers though.
--
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Re: freebsd curiosity
On 0, P. U. Kruppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And ... if you know Linux you can easily install and setup FreeBSD on your machine and find out everything yourself. that's not really true, the RH installer is a lot easier to use for most ppl than sysinstall. for some reason I prefer sysinstall though, probably because I used to install NetBSD with their textbased installer and never had a problem with it. and James, also look into Gentoo, they got some interesting ideas, and Gentoo developers and users are usually more knowlegeable than other disto. I have RH8 at work and I hate it, it looks pretty with their Bluecurve theme and the nice fonts with xft2, but it's so bloated, my fbsd laptop with half the MHz count runs faster than this RH8 workstation. of the main disto's Debian is probably the best. Gentoo is closer to BSD and I like it the most. the biggest problem of running fbsd is probably the lack of support with some commercial software like Ximian Connector, VMWare (as host OS), etc. but I don't need those on my personal laptop or servers and what are in the port collection is more than sufficient. check out the handbook and the FAQ on freebsd.org, you will find more than enough information. /ayn On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, James Hicks wrote: To whom it may concern, My name is James. I'm a junior college graduate with an A.S. degree in Computer Applications. I took a class in UNIX about a year ago. The os we used was Mandrake Linux. I've learned to like Red Hat and have version 8.0 on my home machine. I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines like pcmagazine and sought info online using sources like the freebsd homepage, zdnet, cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few questions about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a journaling one like ext3? Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks James Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message *---* *Peter Ulrich Kruppa* * - Wuppertal - * * Germany * *---* To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message -- andrew y ng [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://andrewng.com gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 9BFC594C fingerprint : 46a1 29ff 893a 0381 dc81 1e1e bed8 e882 9bfc 594c msg14975/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: freebsd curiosity
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? It's not a clone like Linux is, but there is no longer any ATT-derived code in it. See the reference previously posted for details. Second, what type of file system does it use? It's called ffs (fast file system). It's sometimes called ufs as well. Does it have a journaling one like ext3? No, but softupdates gives you the features you probably want from one. Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? The answer depends on the file system. Historically, it's been no for most file systems. There aren't defrag tools in the FreeBSD ports tree, so I'd say no one who knows enough to write one has felt that there was any need for one. I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? FreeBSD recognizes a different set of hardware - probably smaller - than Linux. Making new hardware work on either system is an ongoing volunteer effort, and FreeBSD has fewer volunteers than Linux. In practice, I've never had hardware that wasn't recognized that I couldn't return. I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? There are two problems. First, the focus on Linux development seems to be on performance rather than stability. FreeBSD does things the other way around. Performance shortages you can cover by spending a bit extra. Stability performances you can't cover at all. For desktop applications, there's just barely enough difference to notice. For mission critical applications - well, minor changes are a problem. Second, most linux distributions are aimed at the desktop. This makes adopting them to a server application difficult. There are linux distributions that are targeted to the server market, but by moving to those you've moved into a smaller user base than FreeBSD has, negating some of the advantages of Linux. Given that FreeBSD can run Linux applications, you might as well stay with FreeBSD for most things in this case. Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? Having carefully examined one Linux device driver, and done work on a couple of BSD ones, yes, I believe that to be the case. I still shudder whenever I think about the Linux device driver. And it was from one of the stars of the Linux community. mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: freebsd curiosity
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Andrew Y Ng wrote: On 0, P. U. Kruppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And ... if you know Linux you can easily install and setup FreeBSD on your machine and find out everything yourself. that's not really true, the RH installer is a lot easier to use for most ppl than sysinstall. for some reason I prefer sysinstall though, probably because I used to install NetBSD with their textbased installer and never had a problem with it. You are right. When I started playing around with Linux (it was Slackware at that time) the installation menu looked like sysinstall. So it was easy to convert to FreeBSD. Though, sysinstall gives you the chance to start with a lean, minimal system and extend things the way you like. /ayn On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, James Hicks wrote: To whom it may concern, My name is James. I'm a junior college graduate with an A.S. degree in Computer Applications. I took a class in UNIX about a year ago. The os we used was Mandrake Linux. I've learned to like Red Hat and have version 8.0 on my home machine. I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines like pcmagazine and sought info online using sources like the freebsd homepage, zdnet, cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few questions about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a journaling one like ext3? Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks James Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message *---* *Peter Ulrich Kruppa* * - Wuppertal - * * Germany * *---* To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message -- andrew y ng [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://andrewng.com gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 9BFC594C fingerprint : 46a1 29ff 893a 0381 dc81 1e1e bed8 e882 9bfc 594c *---* *Peter Ulrich Kruppa* * - Wuppertal - * * Germany * *---* To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: freebsd curiosity
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2003-01-10 17:23:29 +: On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Andrew Y Ng wrote: On 0, P. U. Kruppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And ... if you know Linux you can easily install and setup FreeBSD on your machine and find out everything yourself. that's not really true, the RH installer is a lot easier to use for most ppl than sysinstall. for some reason I prefer sysinstall though, probably because I used to install NetBSD with their textbased installer and never had a problem with it. You are right. When I started playing around with Linux (it was Slackware at that time) the installation menu looked like sysinstall. So it was easy to convert to FreeBSD. Though, sysinstall gives you the chance to start with a lean, minimal system and extend things the way you like. I think the slackware installer still looks like that. at least in 8.0 it looked like a poor man's /stand/sysinstall. [75 lines of bottom-quote snipped. please trim the quoted material.] -- If you cc me or remove the list(s) completely I'll most likely ignore your message.see http://www.eyrie.org./~eagle/faqs/questions.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: freebsd curiosity
I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? I find the OPPOSITE to be true! Hell if Windows isn't recognizing some ethernet card, video card, sound card, I stick it in my FreeBSD machine where it's instantly recognized, and tells me what it is, so I can go back to the Windows machine and try to make it reognize it. I'm always AMAZED at how well FreeBSD (and OpenBSD) just recognize things immediately: no special drivers-CD-or-floppy needed. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: freebsd curiosity
I kicked this thread across to advocacy when it started, so it may be worth following it up over there. -- Paul Beard http://paulbeard.no-ip.org/movabletype/ 8040 27th Ave NE Seattle WA 98115 / 206 529 8400 Genetics explains why you look like your father, and if you don't, why you should. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
freebsd curiosity
To whom it may concern, My name is James. I'm a junior college graduate with an A.S. degree in Computer Applications. I took a class in UNIX about a year ago. The os we used was Mandrake Linux. I've learned to like Red Hat and have version 8.0 on my home machine. I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines like pcmagazine and sought info online using sources like the freebsd homepage, zdnet, cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few questions about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a journaling one like ext3? Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks James Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: freebsd curiosity
There have been many long discussions about all your questions. A good starting point to get all the answers you need is the FreeBSD homepage www.freebsd.org . And ... if you know Linux you can easily install and setup FreeBSD on your machine and find out everything yourself. Have fun! Uli. On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, James Hicks wrote: To whom it may concern, My name is James. I'm a junior college graduate with an A.S. degree in Computer Applications. I took a class in UNIX about a year ago. The os we used was Mandrake Linux. I've learned to like Red Hat and have version 8.0 on my home machine. I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines like pcmagazine and sought info online using sources like the freebsd homepage, zdnet, cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few questions about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a journaling one like ext3? Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks James Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message *---* *Peter Ulrich Kruppa* * - Wuppertal - * * Germany * *---* To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: freebsd curiosity
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, P. U. Kruppa wrote: There have been many long discussions about all your questions. A good starting point to get all the answers you need is the FreeBSD homepage www.freebsd.org . And ... if you know Linux you can easily install and setup FreeBSD on your machine and find out everything yourself. Oh ... I forgot: I am afraid UNIX is just a registered Trademark of the OpenGroup. If you have enough money to pay them, you may call your coffee machine a UNIX-system. Open software projects like FreeBSD of course don't pay. Have fun! Uli. On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, James Hicks wrote: To whom it may concern, My name is James. I'm a junior college graduate with an A.S. degree in Computer Applications. I took a class in UNIX about a year ago. The os we used was Mandrake Linux. I've learned to like Red Hat and have version 8.0 on my home machine. I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines like pcmagazine and sought info online using sources like the freebsd homepage, zdnet, cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few questions about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a journaling one like ext3? Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks James Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message *---* *Peter Ulrich Kruppa* * - Wuppertal - * * Germany * *---* To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message *---* *Peter Ulrich Kruppa* * - Wuppertal - * * Germany * *---* To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
